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Post by DamieQue™ on Nov 9, 2009 14:00:02 GMT -5
@ 91- Problem of exclusion referred to administration or decision makers excluding others from the conversation or decision making process. May have been a bad choice of words but it's what popped out at the time. @ Damie - True. That's why I asked the question, "What tempers their hand" or put a better way, what tempers their fervor for that time long past. |
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Post by Cambist on Nov 9, 2009 14:29:28 GMT -5
@ 91- Problem of exclusion referred to administration or decision makers excluding others from the conversation or decision making process. May have been a bad choice of words but it's what popped out at the time. @ Damie - True. That's why I asked the question, "What tempers their hand" or put a better way, what tempers their fervor for that time long past. True...That could very well be the case. Are you saying that leadership is not open to the will of the masses and that's what causes the problems or is the cause of the disconnect that creates the problem? If that's the case, who are these people? Where did they come from? Why are they still there? Why do the feel the way they do? I've heard far too often that the upper management/leadership tends to turn a blind eye to the desires of the general body for a more interesting process in favor of one with the least amount of liability. How should they think? What should be their first thought when evaluating the facilitating and administering of a process on a national level? |
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Post by adisa on Nov 10, 2009 10:35:44 GMT -5
You know... Juicy said something that I think bears repeating.
Until people meet from the top to the bottom to find a resolution, there will continue to be problems
It's not pledging that is going to be the death of D9 orgs as oft prophesized - it's that ever increasing divide that comes from refusal to truly listen to ALL members. For almost 20 years now members have been telling those in power that the intake process is flawed. 20 years. And who is listening? All we get are a bunch of "canned" answers often times from people in their ivory towers, who do not have to suffer under the auspicies of the policies that they champion...
...definitively CONFIRMING that they are not listening. How can you expect someone to show respect for rules to which they had no input and with which they disagree, while refusing to show respect for their concerns/issues about said rules?
To be sure, I am not suggesting that this issue is just about pledging/hazing. Even if pledging is addressed, we can be confident that whatever compromise comes out will be "too far" for some and "too little" for others. But that's not the great danger here. The great danger is that you have a populace who has come to believe that "they know best" so they need not listen. They need only instruct.
That way madness lies... To be fair, though, good brother Damie, let's keep in the forefront that it was the BODY that wasn't listening to the LEADRSHIP when for decades they were asked repeatedly to fall back on the brutal hazing and foolishness as it would bring unnecessary problems. But I do understand what you are saying and am in agreement. |
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Post by Iceman on Nov 10, 2009 13:23:40 GMT -5
I've said several times and for several years that our organizations should look at other models for intake. A barrier to that is what I mentioned earlier: either people want a complete change where we eradicate all traditional aspects of pledging or we bring back most aspects of pledging and just do a better job in managing the chapters.
Neither will work and yet with all the intellectual capital we have at our fingertips....they are all we have. As everybody recognizes that pledging is still likely to stick around regardless - I think Cam’s statements above are really the meat of the matter. On a national level, a revamped process that removes any and all aspects of traditional pledging is the most feasible from a business perspective as it provides the least room for liability. From that perspective, it makes sense. But from the perspective of the general body (well, I’ll say a large portion of the general body), a revamped process that leaves no room for any traditional aspects of pledging will continue to get the gas face. It’s just not probable that the masses will be receptive to it, or be willing to accept it as the one and only method for entry into the ranks of our Orgs. As Damie said, regardless of the body’s opinions, Nationals will set the protocol as they see fit and in all fairness, do it in accordance with the motive of bearing as little to no risk as possible. That’s how it’s been, how it is, and how it likely will be. But the flip side of it is that, the ostracization of members (due to their method of entry) will continue on. Division, debates, delusion would remain. Delusion as in “newly processed’ members thinking that the ability to flash of a membership card will automatically entitle them to full benefits and full acceptance with “all” in the brotherhood on a fraternal or social level. Right or wrong, if these younger members travel to the wrong region, district, yard or setting with that line of thinking, that is a fail just waiting to happen. And almost everybody here knows it. Now obviously, every Greek doesn’t limit their interaction with their own members based solely only on how they came in the Org.. That judgmental feeling may or may not wane with personal experience, maturity or time. But there is a larger portion of our membership who have pledged (more prominent in our younger members) who will indeed base their level of interaction with a member based on their process first and foremost. That’s just how it is. Not saying it’s right-but it just is. That is the continued divide. And that takes us back to Cam’s comments above. It is indeed mind boggling that there has been no happy medium where both sides can meet and agree on…..and I’m honestly not sure there will ever be. In relation to this topic, the Orgs will continue to operate in division as we have been. Nationals will enforce their stance due to the risk factor. And the majority of members will always feel membership in our Orgs just isn’t for everybody – And thus feel a pledge process provides a solid mechanism of tradition to keep membership for the select who they feel really earned it. And the wheel keeps spinning. |
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Post by Cambist on Nov 10, 2009 13:49:46 GMT -5
Sadly, Ice...I fear that if we don't eventually find some alternative....we wont have to worry about divisions or liability.
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Post by Oren Ishii on Nov 10, 2009 19:50:47 GMT -5
This is deep...
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Post by Oldskool on Nov 12, 2009 9:59:56 GMT -5
Sadly, Ice...I fear that if we don't eventually find some alternative....we wont have to worry about divisions or liability.
You are correct. No matter what plan of prevention is put in place, people always find ways to circumvent. Sad, sad, sad.  |
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Post by Cambist on Nov 13, 2009 15:40:20 GMT -5
1. Nobody is willing to put their name on any program that violates the laws on hazing so no official program will introduce a "physical" process.
2. The law wont be changed.
3. Eventually, states will start implementing mandatory sentences on certain hazing violations.
Like my friends uncle used to say about crime in Tuskegee, Alabama..."Oh, I can stop a N***a from stealin'!" The same thing will be said about hazing.
So if organizations want a fundamental change in the process.....they will be proactive and start now. One or two big hazing suits (death or serious physical injury) and folks are going to start going to jail for a long time and organizations will not be able to afford the insurance.
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Post by Southie on Nov 14, 2009 18:31:19 GMT -5
...just bring my latte in the am ...merlot in the evening ...know the pertinent info that would interest Southie, and its all good. ;D  |
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Post by Oldskool on Nov 14, 2009 20:13:00 GMT -5
...just bring my latte in the am ...merlot in the evening ...know the pertinent info that would interest Southie, and its all good. ;D  |
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Post by Cambist on Nov 15, 2009 13:05:08 GMT -5
...just bring my latte in the am ...merlot in the evening ...know the pertinent info that would interest Southie, and its all good. ;D I'd be willing to stand and defend this in court. |
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Post by adisa on Nov 15, 2009 20:30:09 GMT -5
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Post by Oldskool on Nov 15, 2009 21:09:08 GMT -5
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Post by peppermint on Nov 15, 2009 21:45:31 GMT -5
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Post by Blues Clues on Nov 16, 2009 0:11:49 GMT -5
shocking....real shocking??!!!!!
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Post by huey on Nov 17, 2009 20:01:00 GMT -5
I was never into white girls but..
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Post by Bunny Hop on Nov 20, 2009 8:13:45 GMT -5
www.truthordarepics.com/pictures/sororityinitiation/Our submitted Picture of our Sorority Initiation this fall. The sisters of delta sigma theta and alpha kappa alpha sorority put on a hazing day for us and as you can see they took pictures of it without us knowing. As part of the ritual we had to get them posted on as many sites online as we could find.  Y'all have some 'splainin' to do!! So we're posting bootless porn sites in the greek session now?  |
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Post by Oren Ishii on Nov 20, 2009 22:06:11 GMT -5
Thank GOD I read this before clicking that link. So we're posting bootless porn sites in the greek session now? |
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Post by adisa on Nov 22, 2009 15:15:27 GMT -5
The site is claiming that its AKAs and Deltas, and the pic popped up during a Google search on hazing. If y'all are cool with that then *shrug*. Huey likes the pic, at least. Thank GOD I read this before clicking that link. So we're posting bootless porn sites in the greek session now? |
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