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Post by Julie Art on Apr 20, 2009 15:53:44 GMT -5
Girlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll, when I saw the pic of the perp, I was like OH HAYLE NAW!!!!!! LMBO!
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Post by huey on Apr 20, 2009 15:53:58 GMT -5
Is it wrong to want to laugh at that pic? The situation is missed up but that picture is priceless.  to the dragonball z fans! LOL |
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Post by Julie Art on Apr 20, 2009 15:54:24 GMT -5
Buahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ::DEAD::
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Post by T-Rex91 on Apr 20, 2009 15:56:44 GMT -5
Is it wrong to want to laugh at that pic? The situation is missed up but that picture is priceless. to the dragonball z fans! LOL DEAD! |
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Post by Kryptik on Apr 20, 2009 15:57:11 GMT -5
<---Being Devil's Advocate... (mostly) Though I am sorry for the young lady mentioned... I must call B.S. First of all, like others mentioned, she went back time and time again! She went alone! She crossed and then started naming names! The first problem I have with this is that when she "squealed" on those involved, how is any of her testimony taken as fact! That would be like me claiming... Oldskool had hazed me up (knowing that she is definitely anti-hazing  ). What is to stop her from lying? Her credibility is already shot in my mind (as a devil's advocate of course). I do not like the current reality of this whole pledging/hazing issue do to the assumption that the alleged hazers are guilty until proven innocent. It only takes a disgruntled aspirant, or member at that, to claim that someone hazed them while on-line. The only defense for the alleged hazer is "I didn't do it", while the hazee continues to say "Yes he/she did... see my bruises". I mean come on now!!!  |
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Post by Bathroom Model on Apr 20, 2009 15:58:38 GMT -5
Is it wrong to want to laugh at that pic? The situation is missed up but that picture is priceless. to the dragonball z fans! LOL Ok! so I'm not alone. Just looking at her made me want to hit her. Going to the corner now |
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Post by FatalDST on Apr 20, 2009 16:06:26 GMT -5
OMG... I just looked at the pic, is that my soror or the vic? did they do that to her lips?
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Post by Bathroom Model on Apr 20, 2009 16:09:04 GMT -5
OMG... I just looked at the pic, is that my soror or the vic? did they do that to her lips? for some reason I think she's was born like that. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 20, 2009 16:10:21 GMT -5
quote by vudu_prince Let us use logic here and not get caught up in emotion. Right now today the pledge process is needed more than ever. I had a very stern upbringing so my process to me was nothing more than a microcosm of what I received from my parents. Some of these children don't have that. The BGLO is in a position to provide that on a small scale and I feel it should be given to them. I really don't want to get in to a lengthy debate with you but am I to understand that you are equating a pledge process with parents disciplining their children? If so, I must disagree with that analagy 100%. Also, are you saying that the children who don't have strict parents need a pledge process to teach them discipline? Those are the ones who end up in prison, not college. They eventually get the discipline the need. No one attending a university needs to be disciplined by a group of his/her peers to gain entry into an organization that does what? There is no logic in that! I think you are speaking from emotion without logic.. When you are a parent emotion is deeply involved and actions are controlled by logic.
I can respect that you disagree. Just some of us knew about giving excuses before we got on line. Some of us worked as a unit with our own siblings before we had LB's. Some of us knew the importance of being on time. Some us knew the importance of proper preparation and planning before executing an action. Some of us knew that doing what you are supposed to do doesn't deserve a pat on the back. You should innately strive for excellence. Any violations of the aforementioned their were consequences.......
Speaking on behalf of someone in your peer group who broke down his process for me, he would disagree with you. My Father crossed into Omega 72 Fall Dawg # 9. He stated his process was rough for him in the beginning. He didn't grasp the concept #1 He didn't have a father figure in his life and #2 He grew up as an only child. By default he wasn't prepared for his process in some aspects but with the help of his LB's and Dean he grew into it. He then applied those concepts along with the concepts he did receive from his mother combined them and raised his Sons the same way.
What is the pledge process?
The pledge process is for a moment nothing but a microcosm of your upbringing. The difference is it teaches you to bond with strangers who have came for a common goal and together you work as unit towards its completion. You then apply these concepts in your everyday life. I hear people all the time say "These kids today are not ready to be pledged". Part of that is true because the family structure is messed up. These children are joining gangs to replace what should be happening at home. They want structure, discipline but overall they want love that his bonded by a common thread. We have to understand what the pledge process is before we can even come against or for it. You have a Dean and a ADP for a reason. Who are they mimicking? Why are they there? What is their purpose? Ask yourself those questions.
Why is the Pledge Process needed?
It was designed to rid the men and women amongst the initiated the ugliness that happens amongst the uninitiated. The respect, honor, loyalty, are all bonded together with the process. The process reigns supreme in the face of petty differences. Why do we call our Line Brother by that name? Why do we call our Line Sister by that name? Why not line cousin? Why not Line buddy? What are we attempting to mimic? Why do we want that bond as apposed to a casual acquaintance? Yanno why.... because the men and women knew something had to be in place to cloak the aims, intentions, financial records, minutes, rituals, and everything else our orgs feel are sacred in house. To them your oath meant nothing if you hadn't proved yourself prior to entry. Well how would one go about proving your worthiness... An interview isn't gonna cut it. The curse is once you have been initiated the weight of the process can be overbearing. You know innately if you don't live up to your obligation then you are flagrantly going against everything. The process is supposed to be the buffer that separates the ugliness. Just because some have done that doesn't mean we destroy the process. Just because some siblings don't live up to their obligation doesn't mean you destroy the family structure. Even some of us who look down on others as unworthy..
Personally I feel whether you going to college or not to grow as a person its good to be apart of an organization of some sort. In the end how you deal with your peers by age or common goal is but a measuring rod of your self worth. Whether it's SGA, or any other organization where there is a structure and teamwork is paramount I feel it's needed. My father would admonish me when I was younger for saying such and such was my friend. He would ask me why are they my friend? What do you share? What bond do yall have that makes him a friend? He would say don't be quick to call any and everyone your friend son. You have a bond with your family we are your friends and we have earned that right. Later on I realized that Friendship is essential to the Soul but its only one path to that destination.
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 20, 2009 16:15:00 GMT -5
OMG I just looked at the picture....
damn....OMG...HUEY I HATE YOU - SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much right now!!!!
LMAO!
OMG
OMG
*gotta run again*
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Post by Julie Art on Apr 20, 2009 18:23:49 GMT -5
OMG... I just looked at the pic, is that my soror or the vic? did they do that to her lips? I believe that is your soror Fatal. |
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Post by Oldskool on Apr 21, 2009 0:05:55 GMT -5
quote by vudu_prince Let us use logic here and not get caught up in emotion. Right now today the pledge process is needed more than ever. I had a very stern upbringing so my process to me was nothing more than a microcosm of what I received from my parents. Some of these children don't have that. The BGLO is in a position to provide that on a small scale and I feel it should be given to them. I really don't want to get in to a lengthy debate with you but am I to understand that you are equating a pledge process with parents disciplining their children? If so, I must disagree with that analagy 100%. Also, are you saying that the children who don't have strict parents need a pledge process to teach them discipline? Those are the ones who end up in prison, not college. They eventually get the discipline the need. No one attending a university needs to be disciplined by a group of his/her peers to gain entry into an organization that does what? There is no logic in that! I think you are speaking from emotion without logic.. When you are a parent emotion is deeply involved and actions are controlled by logic.
I can respect that you disagree. Just some of us knew about giving excuses before we got on line. Some of us worked as a unit with our own siblings before we had LB's. Some of us knew the importance of being on time. Some us knew the importance of proper preparation and planning before executing an action. Some of us knew that doing what you are supposed to do doesn't deserve a pat on the back. You should innately strive for excellence. Any violations of the aforementioned their were consequences.......
Speaking on behalf of someone in your peer group who broke down his process for me, he would disagree with you. My Father crossed into Omega 72 Fall Dawg # 9. He stated his process was rough for him in the beginning. He didn't grasp the concept #1 He didn't have a father figure in his life and #2 He grew up as an only child. By default he wasn't prepared for his process in some aspects but with the help of his LB's and Dean he grew into it. He then applied those concepts along with the concepts he did receive from his mother combined them and raised his Sons the same way.
What is the pledge process?
The pledge process is for a moment nothing but a microcosm of your upbringing. The difference is it teaches you to bond with strangers who have came for a common goal and together you work as unit towards its completion. You then apply these concepts in your everyday life. I hear people all the time say "These kids today are not ready to be pledged". Part of that is true because the family structure is messed up. These children are joining gangs to replace what should be happening at home. They want structure, discipline but overall they want love that his bonded by a common thread. We have to understand what the pledge process is before we can even come against or for it. You have a Dean and a ADP for a reason. Who are they mimicking? Why are they there? What is their purpose? Ask yourself those questions.
Why is the Pledge Process needed?
It was designed to rid the men and women amongst the initiated the ugliness that happens amongst the uninitiated. The respect, honor, loyalty, are all bonded together with the process. The process reigns supreme in the face of petty differences. Why do we call our Line Brother by that name? Why do we call our Line Sister by that name? Why not line cousin? Why not Line buddy? What are we attempting to mimic? Why do we want that bond as apposed to a casual acquaintance? Yanno why.... because the men and women knew something had to be in place to cloak the aims, intentions, financial records, minutes, rituals, and everything else our orgs feel are sacred in house. To them your oath meant nothing if you hadn't proved yourself prior to entry. Well how would one go about proving your worthiness... An interview isn't gonna cut it. The curse is once you have been initiated the weight of the process can be overbearing. You know innately if you don't live up to your obligation then you are flagrantly going against everything. The process is supposed to be the buffer that separates the ugliness. Just because some have done that doesn't mean we destroy the process. Just because some siblings don't live up to their obligation doesn't mean you destroy the family structure. Even some of us who look down on others as unworthy..
Personally I feel whether you going to college or not to grow as a person its good to be apart of an organization of some sort. In the end how you deal with your peers by age or common goal is but a measuring rod of your self worth. Whether it's SGA, or any other organization where there is a structure and teamwork is paramount I feel it's needed. My father would admonish me when I was younger for saying such and such was my friend. He would ask me why are they my friend? What do you share? What bond do yall have that makes him a friend? He would say don't be quick to call any and everyone your friend son. You have a bond with your family we are your friends and we have earned that right. Later on I realized that Friendship is essential to the Soul but its only one path to that destination.
You dad's disagreement with what I said doesn't effect my opinion at all. Who cares what he thinks. If Omega taught him how to be a parent, I feel sorry for you.
What I'm saying to you is that if a person is disciplined enough to make it to college, then he doesn't need to be humiliated by his peers to gain entry into any organization. I believe a line sister or line brother is a person who cares for my well being. A line sister will come to my aid when I need it. I have AKAs, Deltas and SGRs and GDIs who have proven more loyal to me than my own Zeta sisters. Common issues, shared laughter, tears of sadness create bonds. Not beatings. Humiliation, degradation, abuse only create divisiness. The false sense of brotherhood that you profess to have, I can bet my life, is non existent.
My husband is also an old school Greek. He, too, had a process. He didn't agree with it then and damn sure doesn't agree with it now. He didn't need to use tools learned from pledging to know how to be a good dad.
Also, vudu_prince, last time I checked, pledging was illegal. How can we raise our kids to be good law abiding citizens and turn our backs on an illegal process that could possibly land our children in jail or in a coffin?
I told you that a debate was not what I wanted. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 21, 2009 3:37:34 GMT -5
I can respect that you disagree. Just some of us knew about giving excuses before we got on line. Some of us worked as a unit with our own siblings before we had LB's. Some of us knew the importance of being on time. Some us knew the importance of proper preparation and planning before executing an action. Some of us knew that doing what you are supposed to do doesn't deserve a pat on the back. You should innately strive for excellence. Any violations of the aforementioned their were consequences.......
Speaking on behalf of someone in your peer group who broke down his process for me, he would disagree with you. My Father crossed into Omega 72 Fall Dawg # 9. He stated his process was rough for him in the beginning. He didn't grasp the concept #1 He didn't have a father figure in his life and #2 He grew up as an only child. By default he wasn't prepared for his process in some aspects but with the help of his LB's and Dean he grew into it. He then applied those concepts along with the concepts he did receive from his mother combined them and raised his Sons the same way.
What is the pledge process?
The pledge process is for a moment nothing but a microcosm of your upbringing. The difference is it teaches you to bond with strangers who have came for a common goal and together you work as unit towards its completion. You then apply these concepts in your everyday life. I hear people all the time say "These kids today are not ready to be pledged". Part of that is true because the family structure is messed up. These children are joining gangs to replace what should be happening at home. They want structure, discipline but overall they want love that his bonded by a common thread. We have to understand what the pledge process is before we can even come against or for it. You have a Dean and a ADP for a reason. Who are they mimicking? Why are they there? What is their purpose? Ask yourself those questions.
Why is the Pledge Process needed?
It was designed to rid the men and women amongst the initiated the ugliness that happens amongst the uninitiated. The respect, honor, loyalty, are all bonded together with the process. The process reigns supreme in the face of petty differences. Why do we call our Line Brother by that name? Why do we call our Line Sister by that name? Why not line cousin? Why not Line buddy? What are we attempting to mimic? Why do we want that bond as apposed to a casual acquaintance? Yanno why.... because the men and women knew something had to be in place to cloak the aims, intentions, financial records, minutes, rituals, and everything else our orgs feel are sacred in house. To them your oath meant nothing if you hadn't proved yourself prior to entry. Well how would one go about proving your worthiness... An interview isn't gonna cut it. The curse is once you have been initiated the weight of the process can be overbearing. You know innately if you don't live up to your obligation then you are flagrantly going against everything. The process is supposed to be the buffer that separates the ugliness. Just because some have done that doesn't mean we destroy the process. Just because some siblings don't live up to their obligation doesn't mean you destroy the family structure. Even some of us who look down on others as unworthy..
Personally I feel whether you going to college or not to grow as a person its good to be apart of an organization of some sort. In the end how you deal with your peers by age or common goal is but a measuring rod of your self worth. Whether it's SGA, or any other organization where there is a structure and teamwork is paramount I feel it's needed. My father would admonish me when I was younger for saying such and such was my friend. He would ask me why are they my friend? What do you share? What bond do yall have that makes him a friend? He would say don't be quick to call any and everyone your friend son. You have a bond with your family we are your friends and we have earned that right. Later on I realized that Friendship is essential to the Soul but its only one path to that destination.
You dad's disagreement with what I said doesn't effect my opinion at all. Who cares what he thinks. If Omega taught him how to be a parent, I feel sorry for you.
What I'm saying to you is that if a person is disciplined enough to make it to college, then he doesn't need to be humiliated by his peers to gain entry into any organization. I believe a line sister or line brother is a person who cares for my well being. A line sister will come to my aid when I need it. I have AKAs, Deltas and SGRs and GDIs who have proven more loyal to me than my own Zeta sisters. Common issues, shared laughter, tears of sadness create bonds. Not beatings. Humiliation, degradation, abuse only create divisiness. The false sense of brotherhood that you profess to have, I can bet my life, is non existent.
My husband is also an old school Greek. He, too, had a process. He didn't agree with it then and damn sure doesn't agree with it now. He didn't need to use tools learned from pledging to know how to be a good dad.
Also, vudu_prince, last time I checked, pledging was illegal. How can we raise our kids to be good law abiding citizens and turn our backs on an illegal process that could possibly land our children in jail or in a coffin?
I told you that a debate was not what I wanted.
Out of respect for my mother I'm not going to address part of your foolishness how I would usually do because of your age but I will say this. My father's process meant more to him than mines did to me. Regardless how you feel about Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Inc the cardinal principals of Manhood, Scholarship, Perseverance and most importantly Uplift are impregnable. Logically you can't formulate an argument against them if they are applied for any male regardless of the setting. Submitting to the process is the bond that all pledgee's share regardless of the different songs,poems, history, and traditions you do. The fact you chose to endure is the bond that connects us all. If you didn't have a connect with your peers male or female then.... It alarms me after all this time you seem to not have a connect with what you were doing and why. My aunt would also disagree with you. She pledged SGRHO in the 60's.
Now to state this is a debate is blatantly disrespectful to the definition of the word. When you speak from emotion you paint yourself in a corner. Lets apply the logic when you stated "Why anyone would want to be an Omega is besides me." This would pre-suppose why would anyone listen to us as well.. Lets look at history here as it pertains to your org.
Fact. Feb 7, 1914 J Gordon Dingle during a meeting puts forth the idea of an Inter-Fraternal Council. This idea is relayed to the organizations at Howard U at the time. Idea isn't readily accepted. Frank Coleman pushes the Idea again in 1919 and on Janurary 25th, 1919 at Howard University the first Inter-fraternal council meeting is held. This includes AKA and DST as well. In 1928 this council name now changed to National Pan Hellenic Council. First President Sadie T. Mosell(DST)(sp) Secretary J Alston Atkins (OPP) and Treasurer A Langston Taylor (PBS though PBS was not yet apart until 1931) are voted in. Why did the membership of Zeta Phi Beta come aboard of an entity that was formulated from the ground up by Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Inc? Your organization was 8 years in and did so without the blessing of your brother org who refused to be apart......
Fact. 1945 seeking to curtail initiation "issues" and after doing away with the pledge process fails on the floorin 1947... GB C.C. Johnson passes a directive barring any "issues" during pledging. This directive wasn't followed fraternity wide...so Sgt Charles E. Williams President of his Law Class at Howard and also initiated thoroughly at Howard upon Graduation from Law School in June of 1950 developed the Committee on Polices and Procedures of Fraternities and Sororities. This was a 36 member committee consisting of all orgs from the NPHC. 6 were from Omega Psi Phi with Bro Williams being the President. The policies set forth were #1 Induction practices- outlawing physical punishment,#2 a stronger council, but most importantly controlling expenses, taxes, and fee's National and Local. This is when all the pledge clubs came under the control of the Grand Councils of all the Orgs. Zeta Phi Beta AGAIN agreed with an Omega Psi Phi Fraternity inspired directive built from the ground up and came aboard.
Fact 1985 Dr. Moses C. Norman Grand Basileus of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Inc seeks to do away with our pledge club. Again it fails on the floor. So using history as his guide.... Dr. Norman meets with the presidents of all the orgs of the council. At his urging the all organizations decide to destroy their pledge clubs officially in 1990. Dr Norman then comes back to Omega Psi Phi as did all of the other Presidents with their orgs with the notion either we follow the directive backed by the "NPHC" or we must leave the NPHC. Omega as did all other organizations agree not to leave the NPHC and pledge clubs died just like that. Mind you this decision wasn't decided upon by the bodies of the orgs it was decided upon by 8 people. Zeta Phi Beta AGAIN came aboard and followed this directive formulated from the ground up by Omega Psi Phi.
Dang.... I wonder why the heads of your Organization listened to those "awful" Omegas over and over ........ and over again.
See the issue about pledging has never been about protecting the organizations. It has always been about MONEY. Greed and MONEY. We can't run our mouths about Hazing Laws if we aren't educated on them. If you educate yourself you will see the Hazing Laws were updated mostly in the late 90's and early 2000's. Until then they were mostly dormant. Lets ask the question why has there been more lawsuits in the last 19 years (1990-2009) than it was from 1990 to the early teens? See the Presidents bought into the notion that we could get more MONEY if the process was sped up. Lets soften the standards and we can get more money. Lets snatch away the pledge clubs from the chapters and uniformly bring them under the jurisdiction of our fellow Grand Councils. Before 1950 Universally the process went like this...
You had a Pledge Club. Said Pledge Club would pay dues to prospective org each semester and then the org would pluck out of the pledge club and put the chosen online who would then have to pay their national dues to the organization finish the process and be inside. The orgs wanted all the money. They didn't want to wait for the undergrad chapters to pluck out of the pledge clubs... So all orgs developed universal manuals for everyone to follow and instructions on what and what not to do. Also stated when you could and couldn't have a line. Still money wasn't moving fast enough and the pledge process was still above ground and pledge clubs were still being used. So thats when in 1990 the "NPHC" decided to do away with the pledge clubs all together and set forth the rules that had to be followed. These rules then became law. Everybody always talking about physical punishment but Hazing now includes standing in line, calisthenics, basically everything outside of physical contact. So the NPHC set up the guidelines for the orgs to be sued in the first place. If these laws were in place prior to 1990 every org and chapter would have been thrown off the yard.
Lastly the sororities benefited from this. The Fraternities didn't. The frats rebelled against these measures and the membership paid for it in the 1990's. An example at my chapter in the 1980's from 1980-1989 we had 91 brothers cross. From 1990-2000 we had 27 brothers cross. 65% decrease in membership. This affected every frat on every yard in the NPHC. The sororities on the other hand had a boom in membership which is what the measure was intended to do. It sickened me to my stomach to see the Sororities blatantly take advantage of this young undergrad college women for intake. 175 girls and you clipping them for $1,000 plus. How can you sleep at night knowing you just took $175,000 out of the pockets of students? Now that the sistahs are becoming more aware they are too rebelling.
So here it is 2009. Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Inc again leads the charge to right the wrong doing. Through due diligence and a great program the Lampados Club is back and above ground starting this fall with a 12-15 week structured process. I thank all of the bruhs who kept the dream and spirit alive that though we were not above ground one day those after us could experience what we yearned to have on an official level. If history serves me right...all orgs will follow our lead once again.
Good Day Madam.
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Post by Cambist on Apr 21, 2009 7:51:24 GMT -5
"Follow our lead once again".....ok...LOL!
My concern is that the Lampado Club Program is neutered which means it will still go underground and therefore solve little.
I do like the notion of pledge clubs coming back but I fear that too many people will misinterpret this as meaning that "pledging", as it once existed, will be back. Sadly, even if "old school" pledging were to come back, most wouldn't recognize it because those on the campus' today have a mythical idea in their head as to what pledging once was. That idea is dangerous.
Not to mention, as you stated, much of what made above ground pledging fun is now illegal in most states. I believe 44 states have hazing laws and unless you live in states like South Dakota, Wyoming or Hawaii, etc...you are subject to them.
I do hope that the Lampado Club works out.....I really do. We (NPHC Orgs) are inextricably linked, especially in the eyes of the greater society. So a failure of one pledge club will almost certainly be a stain on us all and raise the stakes for each organization in their attempt to "perfect" or reorganize thier intake processes.
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Post by FatalDST on Apr 21, 2009 8:58:36 GMT -5
Man... yawl really know how to take the humor out of a conversation....
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Post by T-Rex91 on Apr 21, 2009 9:02:00 GMT -5
VP,
I am madly in love with an Omega so I don't have anything against the frat. But resurrecting the Lampados Club is not going to do anything for bruhs like you who (seem to) believe that beating the crap out of someone is a bonding experience. Many of you will figure out a way to maintain the "applied learning" component (your frat brother's words, not mine). There has always been a disconnect between what Omega says it publicly supports and what happens at the sets. All of us have anti-hazing policies and all of us have blatant, recurring, ACCEPTED violations of it, including YOU.
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Post by Julie Art on Apr 21, 2009 9:12:25 GMT -5
Man... yawl really know how to take the humor out of a conversation.... LOL! |
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Post by Julie Art on Apr 21, 2009 9:14:38 GMT -5
I say, let Omega do Omega. If it works, great! If it doesn't, they will go back and revamp. We won't know how it works until it is tried. (let me add, in this day and age). If the higher ups in Omega feels this is good for their org. and that they can work it out, who are we that are OUTSIDE of that org. to judge? We aren't members, therefore aren't privy to what members know.
Therefore, let Omega do Omega, and the rest of our orgs. do what we do respectivley.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 21, 2009 15:32:11 GMT -5
"Follow our lead once again".....ok...LOL! My concern is that the Lampado Club Program is neutered which means it will still go underground and therefore solve little. I do like the notion of pledge clubs coming back but I fear that too many people will misinterpret this as meaning that "pledging", as it once existed, will be back. Sadly, even if "old school" pledging were to come back, most wouldn't recognize it because those on the campus' today have a mythical idea in their head as to what pledging once was. That idea is dangerous. Not to mention, as you stated, much of what made above ground pledging fun is now illegal in most states. I believe 44 states have hazing laws and unless you live in states like South Dakota, Wyoming or Hawaii, etc...you are subject to them. I do hope that the Lampado Club works out.....I really do. We (NPHC Orgs) are inextricably linked, especially in the eyes of the greater society. So a failure of one pledge club will almost certainly be a stain on us all and raise the stakes for each organization in their attempt to "perfect" or reorganize thier intake processes.
"Omega Psi Phi is not a status club, but a fraternity; a brotherhood of high minded, serious thinking, noble living men…” The Honorable Bro. Bishop Edgar A. Love
First off.. I respect your opinion seriously I do but what you feel would be an acceptable process I can't connect with for a multiplicity of reasons. What we do and why we do it is different than what everyone else does. As far as "most" have a mythical idea of what pledging once was... Seriously where are you getting your data from? What makes you think that some of us haven't sat down with brothers from the 80's 70's 60's 50's 40's 30's and 20's? I personally sat down as a 20 year old with the oldest living brother of my chapter who crossed in 1925. He gave me some precious precious information as he did with others. Now me doing that wasn't a testament to me thats a testament to how I was taught. To always reach back gathering intelligence before we move forward. It is inherently instilled into Omega. Why do you constantly equate those who choose to keep the traditions alive as inept castigators of ignorance? What Data do you have to support this?
Lastly my fraternity had a very unique path in construction. We were not accepted. We were not wanted. We were told we could only exist locally... You think the Men of Omega cared about those rules? NO those MEN risked EVERYTHING to make this fraternity exist how we wanted it to exist. We established another chapter anyway and it would've been more but "Outsiders" kept snitching on the bruhz.... Therefore we established the Process bonding MEN with a common thread in the spring of 1912. Lets look at the climate 13 years later.......The Greek Letter Societies among our group appear to have entered upon a period of mad competition for obtaining members. Pledges are increasing in number. Scarcely a student on the college campus but wears a pledge pin or a frat pin. Are the fraternities forgetting their original high standards? Can it be said that every man who enters college is of Fraternity material? If in any place, Omega has entered this mad race for members, pause and consider.
The value of our Fraternity is not in numbers, but in men, in real brotherhood. Eight men thoroughly immersed in the true Omega spirit are far greater assets than eighty with lukewarm enthusiasm.- Bro. Walter Mazyck 1925
Sounds familiar? I swear that brother was a prophet. This is EXACTLY what is happening today. So this what you do so you can see what you really mean to your frat. Raise a voice of contention on anything. Don't back down on it and watch eventually those in power will throw your process or lack thereof back in your face. These same folks who are against the process but who pledged will use your lack of process as a disconnect for you. Then you will realize that this chit thats going on now is truly being done for two reasons.. #1 MONEY and #2 Controlling the power base. Older heads don't wanna let go so they strip the process away to keep the new members ignorant. Keep you deaf. Keep you blind. Bring anybody through use your money and your votes and leave the true brothers and sisters who have love for the org out in the cold. In the meantime they living high off the org on the dimes of the ignorant. Seriously wake up. |
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Post by Southie on Apr 21, 2009 15:42:27 GMT -5
I always say: "If you are not a member of the organization, then leave the so called facts and opinions at your own door". I am not going to suggest to another org, whether or not they should revive their pledge club...basicially its not important to me.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 21, 2009 15:49:39 GMT -5
VP, I am madly in love with an Omega so I don't have anything against the frat. But resurrecting the Lampados Club is not going to do anything for bruhs like you who (seem to) believe that beating the crap out of someone is a bonding experience. Many of you will figure out a way to maintain the "applied learning" component (your frat brother's words, not mine). There has always been a disconnect between what Omega says it publicly supports and what happens at the sets. All of us have anti-hazing policies and all of us have blatant, recurring, ACCEPTED violations of it, including YOU.
Seriously sistah you are being very ignorant. Look back at this thread. Has VP mentioned Wood, Thunder Claps, Neck, Face Swipes, Over the Hump, More Wood, Silent Sam, etc etc etc? NO. So where are you getting your data to formulate the words that you type? VP hasn't mentioned anything about Ass Whuppins because VP knows a pledge process is so much more than the Physical. If you equate the pledge process with physical punishment soley thennnn chances are you DIDN'T pledge. You're telling on yourself.
What VP has done was: explain what he feels the pledge process means, how it is set up, why it is set up. He has also gave a history on directives that has affected all of the BGLO's. He has shown the true aim of money and power as being the underlying reasons for these changes... Even provided the time frame of when the laws were updated andddd.. The best that you can do is type what you did above? Either you need to enter a remedial reading class or learn how to formulate a pervasive argument using the data that has been setforth so EVEYRONE can get what you are saying. Personally I'm kind of beyond "seeing" lines. Been there done that but I think it is still needed. You really don't have a clue. Your perception of me and who I am aren't synonymous. It's more of a reflection of your ignorance. |
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Post by Julie Art on Apr 21, 2009 16:16:06 GMT -5
I always say: "If you are not a member of the organization, then leave the so called facts and opinions at your own door". I am not going to suggest to another org, whether or not they should revive their pledge club...basicially its not important to me. High five Southie. What Omega does has nothing to do with any other org. but Omega. And I kinda agree with Vudu in that there are STILL plenty of greek members alive that went through pledging that was legal, are still for it (my father being one) and would be more then happy to show younger members how it was done when above ground. I think the biggest issue I have with folks who are against whatever (especially those who did it when it was legal) seem like they give off the voice for all those who pledged when it was legal, when in fact they don't. I bet you there are more those who pledged when it was legal who are still for it, then some would want you to think are against it. And another issue (while on my soapbox) when it comes to the process of so called pledging, how can you speak for it, or against it if you didn't experience it any part of it? I don't get that. That is why I'm so against grad. advisors who didn't go undergrad themselves. How can you advise on that if you didn't experience it, because undergrad and grad are two different worlds, regardless if folks want to admitt it or not. |
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Post by coldfront06 on Apr 21, 2009 16:20:11 GMT -5
I always say: "If you are not a member of the organization, then leave the so called facts and opinions at your own door". I am not going to suggest to another org, whether or not they should revive their pledge club...basicially its not important to me. High five Southie. What Omega does has nothing to do with any other org. but Omega. And I kinda agree with Vudu in that there are STILL plenty of greek members alive that went through pledging that was legal, are still for it (my father being one) and would be more then happy to show younger members how it was done when above ground. I think the biggest issue I have with folks who are against whatever (especially those who did it when it was legal) seem like they give off the voice for all those who pledged when it was legal, when in fact they don't. I bet you there are more those who pledged when it was legal who are still for it, then some would want you to think are against it. Just speaking for the older brothers in my area, ALOT of them would LOVE for pledging to return. They have the "rules are the rules" mindset, but they miss the days of being able to have some fun with aspirants. And I like to see 60+ year old brothers still hazing a little, lol. |
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Post by Julie Art on Apr 21, 2009 16:23:28 GMT -5
High five Southie. What Omega does has nothing to do with any other org. but Omega. And I kinda agree with Vudu in that there are STILL plenty of greek members alive that went through pledging that was legal, are still for it (my father being one) and would be more then happy to show younger members how it was done when above ground. I think the biggest issue I have with folks who are against whatever (especially those who did it when it was legal) seem like they give off the voice for all those who pledged when it was legal, when in fact they don't. I bet you there are more those who pledged when it was legal who are still for it, then some would want you to think are against it. Just speaking for the older brothers in my area, ALOT of them would LOVE for pledging to return. They have the "rules are the rules" mindset, but they miss the days of being able to have some fun with aspirants. And I like to see 60+ year old brothers still hazing a little, lol. ::DEAD:: I'm telling you, those older members are bout that business, lol! It's great listening to them, and I know some older sorors that would like to go back to Ivy Clubs as well. |
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Post by Southie on Apr 21, 2009 16:31:03 GMT -5
I always say: "If you are not a member of the organization, then leave the so called facts and opinions at your own door". I am not going to suggest to another org, whether or not they should revive their pledge club...basicially its not important to me. High five Southie. What Omega does has nothing to do with any other org. but Omega. And I kinda agree with Vudu in that there are STILL plenty of greek members alive that went through pledging that was legal, are still for it (my father being one) and would be more then happy to show younger members how it was done when above ground. I think the biggest issue I have with folks who are against whatever (especially those who did it when it was legal) seem like they give off the voice for all those who pledged when it was legal, when in fact they don't. I bet you there are more those who pledged when it was legal who are still for it, then some would want you to think are against it. And another issue (while on my soapbox) when it comes to the process of so called pledging, how can you speak for it, or against it if you didn't experience it any part of it? I don't get that. That is why I'm so against grad. advisors who didn't go undergrad themselves. How can you advise on that if you didn't experience it, because undergrad and grad are two different worlds, regardless if folks want to admitt it or not. <<Does a hand clap for this post <<Its amazing at how people feel the need to go back and report what founder or org said or who did what during the early days of formation, that back almost 100 years ago. Then you got others that want to say, here's how it goes! Leave it alone. As it stands today, it is what it is, and if anything changes, then so be it. |
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Post by Oldskool on Apr 21, 2009 19:23:51 GMT -5
ORIGINAL post by Oldskool
I really don't want to get in to a lengthy debate with you but am I to understand that you are equating a pledge process with parents disciplining their children? If so, I must disagree with that analagy 100%. Also, are you saying that the children who don't have strict parents need a pledge process to teach them discipline? Those are the ones who end up in prison, not college. They eventually get the discipline they need. No one attending a university needs to be disciplined by a group of his/her peers to gain entry into an organization that does what? There is no logic in that! I think you are speaking from emotion without logic.. When you are a parent emotion is deeply involved and actions are controlled by logic.
posted by vudu_prince
Speaking on behalf of someone in your peer group who broke down his process for me, he would disagree with you. My Father crossed into Omega 72 Fall Dawg # 9. He stated his process was rough for him in the beginning. He didn't grasp the concept #1 He didn't have a father figure in his life and #2 He grew up as an only child. By default he wasn't prepared for his process in some aspects but with the help of his LB's and Dean he grew into it. He then applied those concepts along with the concepts he did receive from his mother combined them and raised his Sons the same way.
posted by vudu_prince
Out of respect for my mother I'm not going to address part of your foolishness how I would usually do because of your age but I will say this. My father's process meant more to him than mines did to me. Regardless how you feel about Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Inc the cardinal principals of Manhood, Scholarship, Perseverance and most importantly Uplift are impregnable. Logically you can't formulate an argument against them if they are applied for any male regardless of the setting. Submitting to the process is the bond that all pledgee's share regardless of the different songs,poems, history, and traditions you do. The fact you chose to endure is the bond that connects us all. If you didn't have a connect with your peers male or female then.... It alarms me after all this time you seem to not have a connect with what you were doing and why. My aunt would also disagree with you. She pledged SGRHO in the 60's.
Now see, this is why I said initially I didn't want to get into a lengthy debate with you. I think if you read with your eyes, ears, and mind, instead of your mouth, you could hear what someone else has to say. I did not need a comparison of my process to your dad's. I did not say anything about your mother. It doesn't matter if your aunt disagrees with me, In fact, I was not talking about your family at all. I said and I quote," WHEN YOU ARE A PARENT, EMOTION IS DEEPLY INVOLVED AND IS CONTROLLED BY LOGIC.. I'm sure there are a number of people my age and older who will disagree with me. It still doesn't change my opinion. If I'm doing my job as a parent, my children do not need to be disciplined by their peers.
I do not need a history lesson from you about my org, yours or anyone else's. I'm speaking from what I know. You made some statements and I simply asked for clarity and you started with your usual rhetoric and BS. Every time someone challenges something you have said, you get indignant and revert to insults and start writing novels. It's not that deep vudu. It's not that serious. It's a discussion board and we are all entitled to our opinions whether you like them or not.
Also, I didn't waste my time reading all that other stuff you wrote because, "frankly Scarlet......".
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Post by Iceman on Apr 21, 2009 19:39:07 GMT -5
Clearly there are two schools of thought here. I know many here don’t agree with pledging and that’s fine – Stick to your guns as I’m not trying to change anyone’s opinion. However, don’t be so quick to look at these publicized accounts of hazing and make a general blanket statement like, “See, this is what happens when you pledge”. The reality is, the majority of pledge processes are meaningful to aspirants and are ran by competent individuals. Just look at how many lines go over “without” incident. There’s no comparison. Does that not count for anything? I know, I know - probably not.
Now sadly, there are those instances where members put in charge to oversee a process are incompetent, inexperienced or allow emotion or personal vendettas to rear their ugly heads. When that happens, problems will indeed arise. While those isolated incidents are unfortunate (and few and far between), do I think this is the “norm” for most processes? No, I honestly do not and these instances don’t make me waver in my support of pledging. Contrary to belief, well balanced, safe and successful pledge processes are still being carried out frequently and consistently. Many of us Greeks, well the majority of us Greeks, still value and care about keeping the tradition of pledging alive - And not surprisingly, there are still many aspirants who want that experience as well. I know that’s a hard pill to swallow for some, but it’s the simple truth. The pro and con argument on the worth and purpose of pledging will rage on and that’s okay. But what many will have to accept, like it or not, is that until some of the laws around hazing change (which is not likely), “underground” pledging in some form or fashion will remain as we know it. Welcome to Post 90’s Greekdom. Carry on…
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 21, 2009 20:01:06 GMT -5
ORIGINAL post by Oldskool I really don't want to get in to a lengthy debate with you but am I to understand that you are equating a pledge process with parents disciplining their children? If so, I must disagree with that analagy 100%. Also, are you saying that the children who don't have strict parents need a pledge process to teach them discipline? Those are the ones who end up in prison, not college. They eventually get the discipline they need. No one attending a university needs to be disciplined by a group of his/her peers to gain entry into an organization that does what? There is no logic in that! I think you are speaking from emotion without logic.. When you are a parent emotion is deeply involved and actions are controlled by logic.posted by vudu_prince Speaking on behalf of someone in your peer group who broke down his process for me, he would disagree with you. My Father crossed into Omega 72 Fall Dawg # 9. He stated his process was rough for him in the beginning. He didn't grasp the concept #1 He didn't have a father figure in his life and #2 He grew up as an only child. By default he wasn't prepared for his process in some aspects but with the help of his LB's and Dean he grew into it. He then applied those concepts along with the concepts he did receive from his mother combined them and raised his Sons the same way.posted by vudu_prince Out of respect for my mother I'm not going to address part of your foolishness how I would usually do because of your age but I will say this. My father's process meant more to him than mines did to me. Regardless how you feel about Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Inc the cardinal principals of Manhood, Scholarship, Perseverance and most importantly Uplift are impregnable. Logically you can't formulate an argument against them if they are applied for any male regardless of the setting. Submitting to the process is the bond that all pledgee's share regardless of the different songs,poems, history, and traditions you do. The fact you chose to endure is the bond that connects us all. If you didn't have a connect with your peers male or female then.... It alarms me after all this time you seem to not have a connect with what you were doing and why. My aunt would also disagree with you. She pledged SGRHO in the 60's.Now see, this is why I said initially I didn't want to get into a lengthy debate with you. I think if you read with your eyes, ears, and mind, instead of your mouth, you could hear what someone else has to say. I did not need a comparison of my process to your dad's. I did not say anything about your mother. It doesn't matter if your aunt disagrees with me, In fact, I was not talking about your family at all. I said and I quote," WHEN YOU ARE A PARENT, EMOTION IS DEEPLY INVOLVED AND IS CONTROLLED BY LOGIC.. I'm sure there are a number of people my age and older who will disagree with me. It still doesn't change my opinion. If I'm doing my job as a parent, my children do not need to be disciplined by their peers.
I do not need a history lesson from you about my org, yours or anyone else's. I'm speaking from what I know. You made some statements and I simply asked for clarity and you started with your usual rhetoric and BS. Every time someone challenges something you have said, you get indignant and revert to insults and start writing novels. It's not that deep vudu. It's not that serious. It's a discussion board and we are all entitled to our opinions whether you like them or not.
Also, I didn't waste my time reading all that other stuff you wrote because, "frankly Scarlet......".
Reading is fundamental.
I have explained my stance on pledging.
I have cited Human Resources.
I have given my view on what pledging is.
I have given my view on why the process has been constructed.
I have given my reason on why it was destroyed.
I have citied 3 historical facts that back up my notion....
I have shown the pararells of the orgs and the family structure
I have citied the Hazing Laws and their time frame of updates
All of this is for anyone to read and the best you can do is type what you have above? You have been in greekdom for 38 years and the BEST you can do is what you have typed? Then we wonder why the young folks aren't listening... You haven't said a thing. You haven't put forth why you feel the way you do. Nothing. I'm starting to believe its because you don't know. Truly in your case age is only a number. You up to this point have nothing to offer to this conversation. You attempted to bait me in a insult match but instead I looked past that and brought for an intelligent response and you STILL doing this?
VP always answers the questions.... you just didn't like the answer. Instead of formulating an argument against what I have written you instead are for some reason taking this personal. You instead continue to want to make this about me, Omega,etc but never have you once addressed the answers and also questions I have given after you raised your point of contention. So who has resulted to insults and rhetoric? Who has resulted to low class and ignorance? This is twice. |
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Post by Oldskool on Apr 21, 2009 20:21:07 GMT -5
^^^Talk to the hands.....
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Post by Southie on Apr 21, 2009 20:22:13 GMT -5
@vp My very seasoned soror has provided an opinion based on many cirmcumstances, and the stance on pledging versus non-pledging is an argument that will stand the test of time. I think both sides are coming from very different points of view, experiences, and therefore has resulted in a mild debate. However, when you are from different organizations, you are going formulate very different opinions, and no member of one org should cast a judegment call on the other. Lets nicely leave it that. Thanks Signed Interesting |
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). What is to stop her from lying? Her credibility is already shot in my mind (as a devil's advocate of course). 
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