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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 16, 2009 12:42:01 GMT -5
Nice questions Vudu! That's pretty screwed up if you ask me........it's like the kids seems to be worse off in the system.............................
Well not really Hypnotic because the same reasons they give to medicate these children in the system they do out of it. I had a friend of mine who has a son. Her son's teacher wanted her to have a counseling session between the three of them and a state oppointed psychologist for an eval.. They were going to pay her like $600 a month to put her son on this ADHD medication. The little kid was acting out because his father moved away to NJ and wasn't seeing him much. They seek out low income mothers who need the money and they peddle dope to the kids. Luckily for her Son his mom didn't need the money.
In the system when a parent is deemed unfit the child becomes a ward of the court... So once a judge says its okay in shelter court (yeah seen this bullshit too) all of the papers a parent would sign off on for the child the child in the system's papers are PRE-SIGNED. You never cope with the problem and you give them dope instead. So they are attacking both ends. |
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Apr 16, 2009 12:46:43 GMT -5
Nice questions Vudu! That's pretty screwed up if you ask me........it's like the kids seems to be worse off in the system.............................
Well not really Hypnotic because the same reasons they give to medicate these children in the system they do out of it. I had a friend of mine who has a son. Her son's teacher wanted her to have a counseling session between the three of them and a state oppointed psychologist for an eval.. They were going to pay her like $600 a month to put her son on this ADHD medication. The little kid was acting out because his father moved away to NJ and wasn't seeing him much. They seek out low income mothers who need the money and they peddle dope to the kids. Luckily for her Son his mom didn't need the money.
In the system when a parent is deemed unfit the child becomes a ward of the court... So once a judge says its okay in shelter court (yeah seen this bullshit too) all of the papers a parent would sign off on for the child the child in the system's papers are PRE-SIGNED. You never cope with the problem and you give them dope instead. So they are attacking both ends. Oh my goodness..............................that is just sick! |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 16, 2009 12:59:51 GMT -5
Sadly done to make the child more "manageable". So you rip a kid from his family and expect him/her to be manageable? WTF?
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 16, 2009 13:04:04 GMT -5
As for a child facing all these dangers with "spiritual and physical trauma" as Outtie put it. Please tell me Outtie and others.... Outside of the home life what is a Foster Child facing in this world DIFFERENT than my own children? To me not a damn thing. This society is fucked up and I'm getting the sentiment that you guys think some how if a child has two parent and a good home that they are set. WRONG. There are no guarantee's (been saying that since page 1). Nothing is absolute with child rearing in this society therefore you can't justify a child not living or put the weight on those who have kept ourselves and children out of the system. It amazes me sometimes when folks in the system be it social work or police who complain about the people but say nothing about the system. So since you haven't I will share what I have observed.
Two years ago at a very nice Foster Care Home (which had 2 sister homes) I was asked to provide drug testing. How it works is if I drug test your child and they pop (postive test) I have to confirm that pop with a lab based test. All 30 children popped for Amphetamines, Cocaine or both. So I'm like damn. I then asked to see the medicine list for all three houses. Come to find out every kid was doped up with Amphetamine and Codiene based meds so much in their system that it rendered positives on test. Social Workers.. explain to me why the same drugs on a chemical classification level that these children have been snatched from their parents for they are then placed on for long term? Why is the system drugging these kids instead of seeking more homeopathic methods when it comes to mediation of behavioral problems such as better nutrition and exercise? Why does the system force the foster facility or mother to give these children the medications?
I have many more questions as well. I'll wait for an answer.I agree, there are NO guarantees... A stable married couple can give birth to a child - and die, leaving the child at the mercy of the family. My concern is that; the issues that so many of us have brought up, regarding foster care, the system, the drugging of children, molestation, etc., that child fall victim to - will become MUCH more saturated if people are not allowed to decide rather they want to take on the responsibilty of being a parent. WE all agree tht we have a very overburdened and dysfunctional system - it is overcrowded with children who weren't wanted, as well as children who WERE. What happens when we add hundrends of thousands, if not millions more children into it? |
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Apr 16, 2009 13:15:16 GMT -5
As for a child facing all these dangers with "spiritual and physical trauma" as Outtie put it. Please tell me Outtie and others.... Outside of the home life what is a Foster Child facing in this world DIFFERENT than my own children? To me not a damn thing. This society is fucked up and I'm getting the sentiment that you guys think some how if a child has two parent and a good home that they are set. WRONG. There are no guarantee's (been saying that since page 1). Nothing is absolute with child rearing in this society therefore you can't justify a child not living or put the weight on those who have kept ourselves and children out of the system. It amazes me sometimes when folks in the system be it social work or police who complain about the people but say nothing about the system. So since you haven't I will share what I have observed.
Two years ago at a very nice Foster Care Home (which had 2 sister homes) I was asked to provide drug testing. How it works is if I drug test your child and they pop (postive test) I have to confirm that pop with a lab based test. All 30 children popped for Amphetamines, Cocaine or both. So I'm like damn. I then asked to see the medicine list for all three houses. Come to find out every kid was doped up with Amphetamine and Codiene based meds so much in their system that it rendered positives on test. Social Workers.. explain to me why the same drugs on a chemical classification level that these children have been snatched from their parents for they are then placed on for long term? Why is the system drugging these kids instead of seeking more homeopathic methods when it comes to mediation of behavioral problems such as better nutrition and exercise? Why does the system force the foster facility or mother to give these children the medications?
I have many more questions as well. I'll wait for an answer.I agree, there are NO guarantees... A stable married couple can give birth to a child - and die, leaving the child at the mercy of the family. My concern is that; the issues that so many of us have brought up, regarding foster care, the system, the drugging of children, molestation, etc., that child fall victim to - will become MUCH more saturated if people are not allowed to decide rather they want to take on the responsibilty of being a parent. WE all agree tht we have a very overburdened and dysfunctional system - it is overcrowded with children who weren't wanted, as well as children who WERE. What happens when we add hundrends of thousands, if not millions more children into it? People will still sponsor children overseas when the children on our soil are suffering just as much. We forget sometimes that the best way to help others is to start at home............ I can't wait to get into a comfortable income to adopt. What pisses me off is the HELL a parent/ couple has to go thru in order to ADOPT a child! Like we have to find the Golden Orchid hidden in Tellowstone national Park with a DNA sample of Big Foot! It's damn near impossible! |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 16, 2009 13:15:47 GMT -5
As for a child facing all these dangers with "spiritual and physical trauma" as Outtie put it. Please tell me Outtie and others.... Outside of the home life what is a Foster Child facing in this world DIFFERENT than my own children? To me not a damn thing. This society is fucked up and I'm getting the sentiment that you guys think some how if a child has two parent and a good home that they are set. WRONG. There are no guarantee's (been saying that since page 1). Nothing is absolute with child rearing in this society therefore you can't justify a child not living or put the weight on those who have kept ourselves and children out of the system. It amazes me sometimes when folks in the system be it social work or police who complain about the people but say nothing about the system. So since you haven't I will share what I have observed.
Two years ago at a very nice Foster Care Home (which had 2 sister homes) I was asked to provide drug testing. How it works is if I drug test your child and they pop (postive test) I have to confirm that pop with a lab based test. All 30 children popped for Amphetamines, Cocaine or both. So I'm like damn. I then asked to see the medicine list for all three houses. Come to find out every kid was doped up with Amphetamine and Codiene based meds so much in their system that it rendered positives on test. Social Workers.. explain to me why the same drugs on a chemical classification level that these children have been snatched from their parents for they are then placed on for long term? Why is the system drugging these kids instead of seeking more homeopathic methods when it comes to mediation of behavioral problems such as better nutrition and exercise? Why does the system force the foster facility or mother to give these children the medications?
I have many more questions as well. I'll wait for an answer.I agree, there are NO guarantees... A stable married couple can give birth to a child - and die, leaving the child at the mercy of the family. My concern is that; the issues that so many of us have brought up, regarding foster care, the system, the drugging of children, molestation, etc., that child fall victim to - will become MUCH more saturated if people are not allowed to decide rather they want to take on the responsibilty of being a parent. WE have a very overburden system, it is overcrowded with children who weren't wanted, as well as children who WERE. What happens when we add hundrends of thousands, if not millions more children into it?
That's the thing though. In the inner city the child's extended family isn't given first right of refusal. I'm sick of seeing newborn and adolescent black children in the system when I'm in Baltimore City or PG County. When I go out to Carroll County or Anne Arundel County I see a peckerwood flea bag broad with the Methamphetamine twitch BUT her child is in the care of the grandmother, aunt, uncle, grandfather etc. It's straight bullshit. The politics of the foster care system is straight bullshit. The social work system is bullchit. My mom has worked in it for 35 years. How the fuck is it more white people use drugs in this country by number and percentage but OUR kids fill the foster-care system? Well now you know why. Politricks! They put the extended familiy of black children ESPECIALLY NEW BORNS through so much chit to get their children out of the system. Shelter Court is PACKED everyday. So the notion that nobody cares about these kids is bullchit. When you go out in the county you don't see that. The Social workers, lawyers, and judges seek to keep the children with the families unless the chit is like very very extreme. Either speak on the politics or tap out. It's real simple. |
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 16, 2009 13:24:20 GMT -5
I FIRMLY FEEL you on this. I see it as a flow system:
Foster Care~~~~>Juvie~~~>Jail~~~~~>Prison = Slave Labor
If yall don't know about Prison being modern day slavery...MAN - you are in for HEARTBREAK!
So, again, my question is - if we KNOW this system exists and is deisgned to work as such...
How does forcing people to have a child - especially those who are unfit and perhaps don't have a family that is capable of caring for the child - solve this problem?
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 16, 2009 15:54:05 GMT -5
I FIRMLY FEEL you on this. I see it as a flow system: Foster Care~~~~>Juvie~~~>Jail~~~~~>Prison = Slave Labor If yall don't know about Prison being modern day slavery...MAN - you are in for HEARTBREAK! So, again, my question is - if we KNOW this system exists and is deisgned to work as such... How does forcing people to have a child - especially those who are unfit and perhaps don't have a family that is capable of caring for the child - solve this problem?
Alot things can fix the problem but Abortion isn't one of them. How about making it illegal for any doctor or health care practitioner to receive kick backs from the pharmaceutical companies. How about keeping the drug companies from funding and out of the curriculum all together in the Nursing and Medical Schools? Planting the seeds for unjust medicating of patients. How about exposing the fact that the government pushing drugs on the people. How about the masses open their eyes and realize the only conspiracy theory is that most of us conspire together to remain ignorant to the facts. |
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Post by Prissy New Year!!! on Apr 16, 2009 16:59:29 GMT -5
I FIRMLY FEEL you on this. I see it as a flow system: Foster Care~~~~>Juvie~~~>Jail~~~~~>Prison = Slave Labor If yall don't know about Prison being modern day slavery...MAN - you are in for HEARTBREAK! So, again, my question is - if we KNOW this system exists and is deisgned to work as such... How does forcing people to have a child - especially those who are unfit and perhaps don't have a family that is capable of caring for the child - solve this problem?
Alot things can fix the problem but Abortion isn't one of them. How about making it illegal for any doctor or health care practitioner to receive kick backs from the pharmaceutical companies. How about keeping the drug companies from funding and out of the curriculum all together in the Nursing and Medical Schools? Planting the seeds for unjust medicating of patients. How about exposing the fact that the government pushing drugs on the people. How about the masses open their eyes and realize the only conspiracy theory is that most of us conspire together to remain ignorant to the facts.I agree that our children are being over medicated. I think the drug companies are shameless in the way the push their products onto society. I took my 3 year old for her check up and the pediatrician told me that they start doing cholesterol checks at age 3 and will put children on cholesterol drugs at the age of 5 (I think, I may be wrong about the exact age, but it is young). I asked her why not control it with diet? If kids have high cholesterol that young, nutritional counseling is in order. They also wanted me to get the HPV vaccine for my 14 year old, I am not doing it. The drug has not been out long enough to determine if there are long term effects. |
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Post by peppermint on Apr 16, 2009 17:15:34 GMT -5
^^^ Had a doctor ask if I wanted HPV vaccine for a child under 10... WTH?!
<-----------------believes most kids would be fine without the chicken pox vaccine
<-----------------believes that sometimes ADHD is really "has too idle time*
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Post by nsync on Apr 17, 2009 11:24:03 GMT -5
SO TRUEEE!!!! DATT IMMMM 'BOUTT TOOO EXAALLTTT YOU!!! ;D This is why there has been a strong push to privatize many public school in the last 5-10 years or so. There is a huge emphasis onchance to change everything to standardize testing. Those same companies that produce the tests are apart of the transglobal orgs that make money off the prisons. I doubt this is a coincidence. I FIRMLY FEEL you on this. I see it as a flow system: Foster Care~~~~>Juvie~~~>Jail~~~~~>Prison = Slave Labor If yall don't know about Prison being modern day slavery...MAN - you are in for HEARTBREAK! So, again, my question is - if we KNOW this system exists and is deisgned to work as such... How does forcing people to have a child - especially those who are unfit and perhaps don't have a family that is capable of caring for the child - solve this problem? |
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Post by nsync on Apr 17, 2009 11:26:33 GMT -5
There is so much I want to say in this thread, but don't have the time. I'll be back!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by nsync on Apr 17, 2009 11:36:30 GMT -5
see my post about dr's pushing certain drugs etc, pharm companies. Also there is an assumption that our children ARE having sex at a young age. I remember being about 16 r 17 and TELLING the doctor I had never had sex before. She STILL tried to put me on birth control. But that opens up another can a worms about who's working with our kids, what their biases are...why and how that affects our kids in the long wrong. ^^^ Had a doctor ask if I wanted HPV vaccine for a child under 10... WTH?! <-----------------believes most kids would be fine without the chicken pox vaccine <-----------------believes that sometimes ADHD is really "has too idle time* |
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Post by peppermint on Apr 17, 2009 12:12:17 GMT -5
I FIRMLY FEEL you on this. I see it as a flow system: Foster Care~~~~>Juvie~~~>Jail~~~~~>Prison = Slave Labor If yall don't know about Prison being modern day slavery...MAN - you are in for HEARTBREAK! So, again, my question is - if we KNOW this system exists and is deisgned to work as such... How does forcing people to have a child - especially those who are unfit and perhaps don't have a family that is capable of caring for the child - solve this problem?
Alot things can fix the problem but Abortion isn't one of them. How about making it illegal for any doctor or health care practitioner to receive kick backs from the pharmaceutical companies. How about keeping the drug companies from funding and out of the curriculum all together in the Nursing and Medical Schools? Planting the seeds for unjust medicating of patients. How about exposing the fact that the government pushing drugs on the people. How about the masses open their eyes and realize the only conspiracy theory is that most of us conspire together to remain ignorant to the facts.*off topic* How did the protest turn out? |
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Post by peppermint on Apr 17, 2009 12:19:30 GMT -5
Nice questions Vudu! That's pretty screwed up if you ask me........it's like the kids seems to be worse off in the system.............................
Well not really Hypnotic because the same reasons they give to medicate these children in the system they do out of it. I had a friend of mine who has a son. Her son's teacher wanted her to have a counseling session between the three of them and a state oppointed psychologist for an eval.. They were going to pay her like $600 a month to put her son on this ADHD medication. The little kid was acting out because his father moved away to NJ and wasn't seeing him much. They seek out low income mothers who need the money and they peddle dope to the kids. Luckily for her Son his mom didn't need the money.
In the system when a parent is deemed unfit the child becomes a ward of the court... So once a judge says its okay in shelter court (yeah seen this bullshit too) all of the papers a parent would sign off on for the child the child in the system's papers are PRE-SIGNED. You never cope with the problem and you give them dope instead. So they are attacking both ends. Not sure what state you are in, but in my state, the "pre-signed" forms exclude invasive procedures and mind-altering medications (ADHD medications fall into that category for us). Physicians have to submit affidavits stating why medication would be in the child's best interests and list all possible side effects, we have to show what other efforts have been made to treat the child and have at least a second opinion to validate the first one. We are often asked, "if there were your own child..." Again it's not perfect, but it has stopped a lot of children from being on meds all willy nilly. I HATE that people assume because a child is in the "system" there is automatically something wrong with them. Some of the things people are in a hurry to "diagnose and treat" are normal behaviors! A two year old throwing a tantrum in foster care is no different than the two year old throwing a tantrum in the home with married parents. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 17, 2009 12:35:46 GMT -5
Well not really Hypnotic because the same reasons they give to medicate these children in the system they do out of it. I had a friend of mine who has a son. Her son's teacher wanted her to have a counseling session between the three of them and a state oppointed psychologist for an eval.. They were going to pay her like $600 a month to put her son on this ADHD medication. The little kid was acting out because his father moved away to NJ and wasn't seeing him much. They seek out low income mothers who need the money and they peddle dope to the kids. Luckily for her Son his mom didn't need the money.
In the system when a parent is deemed unfit the child becomes a ward of the court... So once a judge says its okay in shelter court (yeah seen this bullshit too) all of the papers a parent would sign off on for the child the child in the system's papers are PRE-SIGNED. You never cope with the problem and you give them dope instead. So they are attacking both ends. Not sure what state you are in, but in my state, the "pre-signed" forms exclude invasive procedures and mind-altering medications (ADHD medications fall into that category for us). Physicians have to submit affidavits stating why medication would be in the child's best interests and list all possible side effects, we have to show what other efforts have been made to treat the child and have at least a second opinion to validate the first one. We are often asked, "if there were your own child..." Again it's not perfect, but it has stopped a lot of children from being on meds all willy nilly. I HATE that people assume because a child is in the "system" there is automatically something wrong with them. Some of the things people are in a hurry to "diagnose and treat" are normal behaviors! A two year old throwing a tantrum in foster care is no different than the two year old throwing a tantrum in the home with married parents.
The protest and subsequent city counsel meeting didn't go well. It was more of a beg session and not one of asking pertinent questions and getting answers. I'm working with those who organized it so they can be more precise the next time. Example.. How can you justify a 50% Increase in the Police Budget (from 4 Million to 6 Million) in a year timespan in a town with 1 documented murder. Then fix your mouth to say it isn't in your budget to help out the local community center 2 min away from the municipal building. So I'm behind the scenes(where I will stay) helping go through this budget and see if we can find some improper relationships with city officials and the companies who have received contracts. Like the company who charged the city $1 Million dollars for an outside seasonal pool when there already exist an aquatic center in the area thats year around and in doors. I mean I was the only Adult in attendance in shirt and tie slacks etc when everyone else was wearing tshirts and other club regalia. When you enter formal meetings you have to dress the part especially if you take the floor to speak. I loved the passion but you addressing the Mayor with your hat turned backwards and expect him to take you serious. So alot of work has to be done in that regard.
As far as the physicians recommendation all of that to my knowledge is either handled in Shelter Court or privately in chambers by the Masters. Trust me doctors are not coming to court every time a child needs meds. Social workers are pushing that paper to the Masters and once given the okay all of the papers for the meds and release are then signed and placed in the child's folder. Whoever is the caseworker then gets it and fills in the date and prescription info. |
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Post by peppermint on Apr 17, 2009 13:04:31 GMT -5
[quote author=vodouprince board=relig thread=5475 post=181510 time=1239902360
I called you on it and then you go in another direction with an EXCUSE.
In Maryland I know plenty of social workers who are care givers and have nice foster homes for children. I'm trying to give you a pass here but you keep bumping your gums. You are out of the game until you figure out where you want to stand on this issue.
It amazes me sometimes when folks in the system be it social work or police who complain about the people but say nothing about the system.
Two years ago at a very nice Foster Care Home (which had 2 sister homes) I was asked to provide drug testing. How it works is if I drug test your child and they pop (postive test) I have to confirm that pop with a lab based test.
Social Workers.. explain to me why the same drugs on a chemical classification level that these children have been snatched from their parents for they are then placed on for long term?
Why is the system drugging these kids instead of seeking more homeopathic methods when it comes to mediation of behavioral problems such as better nutrition and exercise?
Why does the system force the foster facility or mother to give these children the medications?
I have many more questions as well. I'll wait for an answer.[/quote]
*I was reading these posts from the bottom up; sorry just got to this one*
1. Sir, I'm not confused, I'm very clear on where I stand, you aren't. It's clear to me, I don't believe in long term public assistance(welfare). I believe that once you adopt, you should treat the child as if yo gave birth to it, not as an "adopted" child to whom you are providing a charity. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it unclear.
2. I'm not in Maryland. I've visited shortly while in DC. Lovely state. Each state has its own rules and regulations. The rules here are different. As far for which state I'm in, why not research all 50? This way you can be prepared for an argument no matter where the person is from.
3. I am not one of those who hide the dysfunctionalities of the system. I have placed my job on the line more than one to do what is right, so please miss me with that miss right there. What I acknowledge is that foster care, unfortunately, will always be needed. Even if only for a short period of time, there are times when there is no other reasonable effort that can be in place to ensure a child's safety. What I acknowledge in regards to this thread is that what may be right for me is not right for someone else. If people want to eliminate one choice then it needs to be replaced with something reasonable. Just saying "have the baby" and not giving any thought to what will happen to that child is irresponsible.
4. I do not usually have to deal with residential foster care facilities. Please refer to point number 3, I fight like hell to place my children with a family member or family friend. Only one child who I've worked with, and it was 100% her choice, has every been in "foster care"-traditional or residential for longer than 3 months under my watch. And those foster parents knew I was on them like black on coal. You asked what these children face that is different. They face not knowing who they can trust because the ones who were supposed to protect them did not. They face a stigma that follows them for years for something they have no control over. They face an uncertainty that we cannot possibly understand. Vudu, you seem to be a good parent who truly wants to do right by his children. Not every parent is like that. It is AWESOME and UNUSUAL for a parent to call me and ask me "how is little jonny doing today?" During a major storm and flooding last year, I had TWO parents (both with "mental" conditions) out of 84 contact me to find out how their children fared in the storm. Now you are the type of parent who would have been waiting at my office when our doors opened again. You may be the type of parent to call and say "hey Sara's birthday is coming up, is there anyway I can throw a birthday party." Of the over 40 children I worked with last year, those same two parents were the only ones who contacted me about a birthday party. These may sound like minor things but when you are 7, your birthday is like the most important thing ever lol.
5. I could not fully answer your questions about chemicals but I'm not in agreement with medicating children. Please don't misunderstand, I do understand that there are real chemical imbalances that require medication; I just believe that we should explore other avenues prior to medication. Honestly, I've only come across a handful of social workers/case managers who would disagree with that. Now this may also be because I haven't had many children who needed to be in an actual shelter or residential facility. Just a question to you, so I'm clear... you are talking about psychotrophic meds, correct?
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Post by goldmind1922 on Apr 17, 2009 20:00:01 GMT -5
I don't know what state Peppermint is in, but in Florida, it is the case (her point about adoption). Without knowing the structure of the dependency system in Maryland, I couldn't tell you where the differences are. Florida is privatized which makes things very different from other states. It's great, VP(?), that your state allows social workers who currently work in with dependency to be foster parents. Here, unless you reside and work in different districts, that would be impossible. Around the time I got into the child welfare field, I was a mentor in a program for children in out of home placements and had at least one parent in jail. I took a job in a children's shelter and was informed that I had to stop the mentoring program because it was a conflict of interest.
Pro-choice and pro-abortion are two different things. Someone said they can't imagine looking at a child and thinking the child would be better off not having been born. An anti-abortionist would disagree. Many people who believe theya are pro-choice are really pro-adoption. I've volunteered in pregnancy clinics before and there is a push towards convincing the women that God has blessed them with this child... if that is the case, then why is the next sentence about adoption? If God has not laid more on them than they can bear, it's very possible that it was meant for her to parent this child. It's taboo to address the fact that not all children are scooped up as soon as the parents terminate their rights. This is how some newborns end up in foster care--- the very system that was being avoided in the first place.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 18, 2009 0:48:02 GMT -5
[quote author=vodouprince board=relig thread=5475 post=181510 time=1239902360
I called you on it and then you go in another direction with an EXCUSE.
In Maryland I know plenty of social workers who are care givers and have nice foster homes for children. I'm trying to give you a pass here but you keep bumping your gums. You are out of the game until you figure out where you want to stand on this issue.
It amazes me sometimes when folks in the system be it social work or police who complain about the people but say nothing about the system.
Two years ago at a very nice Foster Care Home (which had 2 sister homes) I was asked to provide drug testing. How it works is if I drug test your child and they pop (postive test) I have to confirm that pop with a lab based test.
Social Workers.. explain to me why the same drugs on a chemical classification level that these children have been snatched from their parents for they are then placed on for long term?
Why is the system drugging these kids instead of seeking more homeopathic methods when it comes to mediation of behavioral problems such as better nutrition and exercise?
Why does the system force the foster facility or mother to give these children the medications?
I have many more questions as well. I'll wait for an answer.*I was reading these posts from the bottom up; sorry just got to this one* 1. Sir, I'm not confused, I'm very clear on where I stand, you aren't. It's clear to me, I don't believe in long term public assistance(welfare). I believe that once you adopt, you should treat the child as if yo gave birth to it, not as an "adopted" child to whom you are providing a charity. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it unclear. 2. I'm not in Maryland. I've visited shortly while in DC. Lovely state. Each state has its own rules and regulations. The rules here are different. As far for which state I'm in, why not research all 50? This way you can be prepared for an argument no matter where the person is from. 3. I am not one of those who hide the dysfunctionalities of the system. I have placed my job on the line more than one to do what is right, so please miss me with that miss right there. What I acknowledge is that foster care, unfortunately, will always be needed. Even if only for a short period of time, there are times when there is no other reasonable effort that can be in place to ensure a child's safety. What I acknowledge in regards to this thread is that what may be right for me is not right for someone else. If people want to eliminate one choice then it needs to be replaced with something reasonable. Just saying "have the baby" and not giving any thought to what will happen to that child is irresponsible. 4. I do not usually have to deal with residential foster care facilities. Please refer to point number 3, I fight like hell to place my children with a family member or family friend. Only one child who I've worked with, and it was 100% her choice, has every been in "foster care"-traditional or residential for longer than 3 months under my watch. And those foster parents knew I was on them like black on coal. You asked what these children face that is different. They face not knowing who they can trust because the ones who were supposed to protect them did not. They face a stigma that follows them for years for something they have no control over. They face an uncertainty that we cannot possibly understand. Vudu, you seem to be a good parent who truly wants to do right by his children. Not every parent is like that. It is AWESOME and UNUSUAL for a parent to call me and ask me "how is little jonny doing today?" During a major storm and flooding last year, I had TWO parents (both with "mental" conditions) out of 84 contact me to find out how their children fared in the storm. Now you are the type of parent who would have been waiting at my office when our doors opened again. You may be the type of parent to call and say "hey Sara's birthday is coming up, is there anyway I can throw a birthday party." Of the over 40 children I worked with last year, those same two parents were the only ones who contacted me about a birthday party. These may sound like minor things but when you are 7, your birthday is like the most important thing ever lol. 5. I could not fully answer your questions about chemicals but I'm not in agreement with medicating children. Please don't misunderstand, I do understand that there are real chemical imbalances that require medication; I just believe that we should explore other avenues prior to medication. Honestly, I've only come across a handful of social workers/case managers who would disagree with that. Now this may also be because I haven't had many children who needed to be in an actual shelter or residential facility. Just a question to you, so I'm clear... you are talking about psychotrophic meds, correct? [/quote]
You typed allll that and STILL did not answer my question. You're being passive aggressive. You expecting folks to be mind readers and you refuse to stand by your statements. So I will say this again. You came into this convo and asked a father of 5 why he hasn't adopted. You then said your reason for not adopting and didn't mention anything about being in the social work field. You gave your opinion on not wanting that financial responsibility on somebodies else's mistake. I asked you how can you use a question for someone that you wouldn't be willing to do yourself... Now you bring up you are a social worker and its a conflict of interest as the monument. So you asked a father of 5 who was anti abortion had he adopted any kids.... you then turned around and stated your reasons for not adopting... you got called out on your hypocrisy and now you jump behind the monument of being a social worker... Why are you still typing? Seriously? Everybody saw it. You were caught red handed.
I didn't ask you about all this "hard work" and "caring" you say you do for these kids.. The same ones you said on Page One you wouldn't adopt.... Yeah so are you working hard for the children or for a good eval and your paycheck? Why do you not know your drug classifications as a Social Worker?
Whats the difference between and Opiate and a Stimulant? What are the illegal drugs and legal drugs that fall in those classes? Explain to me how can the system you work in snatch a child from the parent who is a non functional (as most abusers of drugs are functional and also have children..just a tidbit for ya) abuser of say methamphetamine or cocaine.... How can you justify to make the child more manageable put them on a psycho-motor stimulant that is amphetamine or methamphetamine based? Both are Schedule II drugs and are in the same class. I don't wanna hear about what you "say" you do at your jobby job. How can you say you are putting the child in a better place than at home when you hooking them on DOPE. Explain the relevance and stop pushing the blame on the people. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 18, 2009 0:53:39 GMT -5
I don't know what state Peppermint is in, but in Florida, it is the case (her point about adoption). Without knowing the structure of the dependency system in Maryland, I couldn't tell you where the differences are. Florida is privatized which makes things very different from other states. It's great, VP(?), that your state allows social workers who currently work in with dependency to be foster parents. Here, unless you reside and work in different districts, that would be impossible. Around the time I got into the child welfare field, I was a mentor in a program for children in out of home placements and had at least one parent in jail. I took a job in a children's shelter and was informed that I had to stop the mentoring program because it was a conflict of interest. Pro-choice and pro-abortion are two different things. Someone said they can't imagine looking at a child and thinking the child would be better off not having been born. An anti-abortionist would disagree. Many people who believe theya are pro-choice are really pro-adoption. I've volunteered in pregnancy clinics before and there is a push towards convincing the women that God has blessed them with this child... if that is the case, then why is the next sentence about adoption? If God has not laid more on them than they can bear, it's very possible that it was meant for her to parent this child. It's taboo to address the fact that not all children are scooped up as soon as the parents terminate their rights. This is how some newborns end up in foster care--- the very system that was being avoided in the first place.
You couldve stopped typing after the bolded green sistah. That's exactly what they do. Impossible doesn't exist when ingenuity is an option. A frat brother of mines mother has been a social worker for years in two different counties but in the county of her residence (Baltimore City) she has some beautiful Foster Homes. She started them 15 years ago in the heart of Baltimore City. Impossible you say....when you gave the way and typed it yourself.. smh |
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Post by goldmind1922 on Apr 18, 2009 22:03:00 GMT -5
I don't know what state Peppermint is in, but in Florida, it is the case (her point about adoption). Without knowing the structure of the dependency system in Maryland, I couldn't tell you where the differences are. Florida is privatized which makes things very different from other states. It's great, VP(?), that your state allows social workers who currently work in with dependency to be foster parents. Here, unless you reside and work in different districts, that would be impossible. Around the time I got into the child welfare field, I was a mentor in a program for children in out of home placements and had at least one parent in jail. I took a job in a children's shelter and was informed that I had to stop the mentoring program because it was a conflict of interest. Pro-choice and pro-abortion are two different things. Someone said they can't imagine looking at a child and thinking the child would be better off not having been born. An anti-abortionist would disagree. Many people who believe theya are pro-choice are really pro-adoption. I've volunteered in pregnancy clinics before and there is a push towards convincing the women that God has blessed them with this child... if that is the case, then why is the next sentence about adoption? If God has not laid more on them than they can bear, it's very possible that it was meant for her to parent this child. It's taboo to address the fact that not all children are scooped up as soon as the parents terminate their rights. This is how some newborns end up in foster care--- the very system that was being avoided in the first place.
You couldve stopped typing after the bolded green sistah. That's exactly what they do. Impossible doesn't exist when ingenuity is an option. A frat brother of mines mother has been a social worker for years in two different counties but in the county of her residence (Baltimore City) she has some beautiful Foster Homes. She started them 15 years ago in the heart of Baltimore City. Impossible you say....when you gave the way and typed it yourself.. smh I'm not sure if you understand the geography of Florida. Counties are not considered a district. There is one "District" that has over 10 counties in it. That would mean you would have to live in one county and work in a county literally 10 county away. Most cover over 150 miles. There aren't too many people who are going to commute 150 to get to work. Even in the event you live in a different district you'd have to get special premission to accomplish what you are asking. It also causes cases to be "conflicted" out. Let's say I'm a supervisor in Brown County and live in Smith County. Now a case comes in and a child from Smith County needs to be placed in Brown County... we could not receive the case, thus causing a delay in services to that child. The other potential issue is working for the same agency that licenses you. Conflict of interest. If you are in a county that only has one placement agency, and that same agency is the only one doing licensing, andyou are employed with that agency as a case worker...guess what, YOU AREN'T GOING TO GET LICENSED! Please note what I said about Florida not operating protective services as a state. There is privatization here which cause more complications that I care to discuss on a message board with someone who doesn't want to understand. It sounds like Maryland is still state or county based. Again, I don't know what state Peppermint is in, BUT what she is saying is not as far fetched as you would like to believe. You said your friend's mother has "two foster homes" I'm guessing these are residential facilities. Yea... definitely not happening here because the likelihood of double dipping would be crazy. As I said, I had to stop a mentoring program and a child advocoate position to even work IN a residential foster home, much less operate one. Maybe someone else from Florida on here could say, but I can't even think of an individually owned emergency shelter. Most are run by the same agencies who do licensing and provide protective case management services. Some are run in conjunction with DJJ, I believe. |
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Post by peppermint on Apr 18, 2009 22:32:39 GMT -5
You typed allll that and STILL did not answer my question. You're being passive aggressive. You expecting folks to be mind readers and you refuse to stand by your statements. So I will say this again. 1. You came into this convo and asked a father of 5 why he hasn't adopted. You then said your reason for not adopting and didn't mention anything about being in the social work field. You gave your opinion on not wanting that financial responsibility on somebodies else's mistake. 2. I asked you how can you use a question for someone that you wouldn't be willing to do yourself... Now you bring up you are a social worker and its a conflict of interest as the monument. So you asked a father of 5 who was anti abortion had he adopted any kids.... you then turned around and stated your reasons for not adopting... you got called out on your hypocrisy and now you jump behind the monument of being a social worker... Why are you still typing? Seriously? Everybody saw it. You were caught red handed.
I didn't ask you about all this "hard work" and "caring" you say you do for these kids.. The same ones you said on Page One you wouldn't adopt.... Yeah so are you working hard for the children or for a good eval and your paycheck? 3. Why do you not know your drug classifications as a Social Worker?
Whats the difference between and Opiate and a Stimulant? What are the illegal drugs and legal drugs that fall in those classes? 4. Explain to me how can the system you work in snatch a child from the parent who is a non functional (as most abusers of drugs are functional and also have children..just a tidbit for ya) abuser of say methamphetamine or cocaine.... How can you justify to make the child more manageable put them on a psycho-motor stimulant that is amphetamine or methamphetamine based?5. Both are Schedule II drugs and are in the same class. I don't wanna hear about what you "say" you do at your jobby job. How can you say you are putting the child in a better place than at home when you hooking them on DOPE. Explain the relevance and stop pushing the blame on the people. 1. How in the world was I supposed to know he has five children? The point I was making with the question was thing: He is saying that these people should not have abortions but is he willing to take on the responsibilty of the children who are born as a result. You were the one who tried to make it deeper than it was. 2. I didn't say I wasn't willing to adopt, you said that. There was no hypocrisy, you just didn't realize what I was saying. You can't make someone understand something he doesn't want to understand. Someone who has their mind as made up about you about what someone else meant cannot be helped. You think what you want to think. 3. As I said, I have put my job on the line... do you think that means stunning "good eval?" If it make you feel better to think that I'm working more for a sorry ass check than for children, then once again, that's you. I know my classification of drugs (even though I'm not required to know that for my job  ). I was asking you the question for clarification (something you clearly do not value). What sense did it make for me to address psychotrophic medications if that's not what you meant? 4. Ummm, didn't I answer this? I have never been personally put in this situation because I do not believe in medicating children so I don't know the answer. I will say this from the few cases I've observed of placing children on psychotrophic medications... it's a multidisciplinary team decision that does include the parents. I described the process in my previous post. I don't know the procedures in Maryland, but here you cannot just give a child in an out of home placement all willy nilly. Now there was a lot of lobbying that went into changing this. Maybe you and a group of people who believe the same should look into this. Another thing is, depending on what state you are in (if you are sincerely interested in this, please check out the Interstate Compact for the Placement of Children), a parent being a drug abuser isn't a reason for removal. The substance abuse HAS to have a direct impact on the child's safety. This would mean that just because a child is born cocaine positive, for example, the child is not removed. Now that parent may be offered a Healthy Start program or something to help them safety plan (if they choose to remain on drugs and parent) but the child isn't necessarily removed. There are many people who disagree with this. Just because I've worked with them before, I know Tennessee does remove the child if it's born drug positive. In Florida, where Goldmind is, they do not. 5. I'm not sure what people are being blamed. It really sounds like you know and only want to understand one side of this equation. I am able to see where you are coming from, a little anyway, which is why I'm trying to address your concerns. Yet you continuously attack me. I'm giving you the answer, you don't want to accept it. Now if you want me to attempt to explain the logic behind what you are asking, I will. It would be an attempt due to the reasons I've explained. One thing that comes to mind about the child receiving meds in foster care (I'd be interested to know your definition or understanding of foster care), COULD be that if the parent has a substance abuse problem, they may invertedly cause the child to abuse the drugs. Maybe there was a concern that the parent would keep the drugs for themselves, sell the drugs, etc. If the child is in a trained, licensed home, then there is a little more security in knowing that the child would receive the drugs as prescribed. Even though the drugs contain the same chemicals they were exposed to before, this time it's in a more controlled environment. Kinda like it's okay for a meth addict to receive small doses within a clinical setting but not on the streets type of logic. *waves to GM1922, I have worked in Florida before. Those districts are no joke! Even the "small" ones were hundreds of miles of nothingness. Privatization is... well I'll PM you LOL* |
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Post by Oldskool on Apr 18, 2009 23:09:22 GMT -5
WOW Pep
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 19, 2009 23:36:43 GMT -5
Goldmind1922
Where ingenuity exist impossible isn't a option. Social workers coast to coast circumvent the system everyday to help provide children stable foster environments. Some do it for the love.... others do it for the money. Not to put anybody way out there... but Just think you are a Corporation as a silent partner away from having your "own" facility... Hands off of course. In the state of Maryland a private foster facility has to have a Licensed Social Worker and Nurse on the staff to even be considered. It's being done..
As for you bigging up Florida Foster care... you talked it up so much it made me go and read up on it bit... Florida from what I have read thus far is rated very poorly on a National level. Some have stated it is in a full blown crisis. So what you want me to understand? That you work in arguably the worse social services system in the entire nation? It's understood
Peppermint....
Prehaps the focus should be on lowering the unplanned pregnancy rate. In the meantime, who am I to tell someone they should not have an abortion, place the child up for adoption or keep a child because of MY beliefs? I'm not in a position to adopt the children, not too keen on providing long term financial support because her lack of planning became my emergency and unless I know her personally, I would not likely hold her hand while she's having the abortion.-Peppermint April 12, 2009
Maybe you have a mental problem or something but the aforementioned are your words and they are very harsh I might add coming from a Social Services Professional. I guess compassion is only reserved for people you "know" This is gathered from your own words I might add.. In all I asked a simple question and have yet to receive an answer. Why are Social Services around the nation purchasing by the Million drugs for children in their care? Why are the Psychiatrist and Psychologist both being bankrolled by the Pharmaceutical Companies?
See the Pharm companies have hijacked the medical industry. When a doctor prescribes medication to a patient...that patient being an adult can make a decision whether to take it or not. This chit thats going on in the social services arena as it pertains to these children is inhumane. I big up all social workers who truly put their livelihoods on the line by standing up to these corrupt ass drug dealers and cronies who are littered throughout social services. I big up the case workers who show compassion in work ethic but also there thinking realizing they are the last line of defense for the child's decency and well being. To others who protect the inhumane bs by being ignorant to the facts... I could really care less about you and how you feel. I could really care less what you think people should understand.
When society has folded in on itself.
I think family is the answer
Parenting is the answer
Abortion isn't the answer
Eugenics isn't the answer
Drugs are not the answer
Corruption is not the answer
We are living in a Drug Abusing society.... When I see a drug addict I always ask myself...what were the conditions that made them turn to drugs. Then I started to realize that drugs being an valid option with the coping process is a learned behavior. If you are in an arena where drugs are a valid option in the coping process then you are adding to the cycle. You are in fact helping create the next wave of drug abusers.
Last words you ladies can have.
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Post by peppermint on Apr 20, 2009 0:44:56 GMT -5
^^^ If it makes you feel more of a man to try to e-attack someone personally when they have repeatedly told you that they cannot answer a question regarding what millions of people do because they have not encountered that, then it is YOU who have the mental illness. It's called arrogance. I answered your question with the most logical reason I could based on what I've experienced. Is it f&cked up? Yes , hence why many states are moving away from that manner of operation. Harsh or not, my opinion is just that. Hell, you aren't going to do those things either. Stop trying to front like because you do the occassional community service activity that you are out to save the children. You are probably just out to make yourself and/or your organization look good. You are not interested in making a change in the very same system you are here bit about. You just want to down people who are trying to make a difference by insulting them because you don't understand the limitations in which they work. Goldmind gave you a breakdown of a situation that you refuse to accept. If you have to choose between being the worker, foster parent or adoptive parent then you have to choose one. Are you willing to drive 150 miles one way to work 5-7 days per week? The answer is hell no. Obivously in addition to a good foster parent or adoptive parent a child needs a good social worker. What if the goal is for them to go home? You need someone who is going to bust ass with that parent to get them through the system. Thank you for the "big ups."
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Post by goldmind1922 on Apr 20, 2009 2:31:17 GMT -5
Goldmind1922
Where ingenuity exist impossible isn't a option. Social workers coast to coast circumvent the system everyday to help provide children stable foster environments. Some do it for the love.... others do it for the money. Not to put anybody way out there... but Just think you are a Corporation as a silent partner away from having your "own" facility... Hands off of course. In the state of Maryland a private foster facility has to have a Licensed Social Worker and Nurse on the staff to even be considered. It's being done..
As for you bigging up Florida Foster care... you talked it up so much it made me go and read up on it bit... Florida from what I have read thus far is rated very poorly on a National level. Some have stated it is in a full blown crisis. So what you want me to understand? That you work in arguably the worse social services system in the entire nation? It's understood
I big up the case workers who show compassion in work ethic but also there thinking realizing they are the last line of defense for the child's decency and well being.[/color] To others who protect the inhumane bs by being ignorant to the facts... I could really care less about you and how you feel.
I could really care less what you think people should understand.
VP, with all due respect, you must have me confused with Peppermint. I will not go back and forth with you on an issue that you already have your mind made up about. I was pointing out that what you were saying was a lack of effort is in some areas prohibited. Here what is bolded is not considered a "foster home." That is a residential treatment facility which requires a multidisciplinary staffing for placement. That placement must be re-evaluated every 90 days. It also requires more frequent Court hearings in which the parents and their attorneys can participate in. They are also run by mental health/hospital conglomerates. Most children do not require this level of care. In fact, it's possible for a case manager to be in the field for years and never have a child like this on his/her case load. Since you have done your reserch then you are aware that testing positive at birth or being born to a young parent is not a reason for removal here. Since you want to use Maryland as the gold standard, maybe the state congress should subcumb to the pressure and make them reasons for removal. Maybe that would improve the state of child welfare in the state of Florida  . Look, no one likes removing children but the truth is there are situations that call for it. Have you even verified that those are specific reasons for removal in your state? Is it possible that you don't know the full history behind a particular family? Instead of attacking the social workers, why not take a deeper look at your state laws which dicate the things you are complaining about? Then you wouldn't need an semi-anonymous message board to answer your question. I didn't "big up" Florida. Please do not make your misintrepretations my opinion. If you bothered to read what I said, I said privatization has complicated things here and caused problems. So you are actually in agreement with me. You were so quick to defend something that really didn't need defending that you restated the obivous. Is Maryland a comparsion for Florida? No. Florida can stand to learn something from states with similar issues such as California, New York and Texas. Even Maryland has it's issues. Let's not get confused, all states do. Any person who is in the field is working to correct the issues. Unless you are in the field (just like someone degrading teachers), it's unreasonable to criticize it. Just like teachers are fighting to correct things within the educational system but run into obstacles, so do social workers... no matter what discipline they are in. You seem to have an issue with those who are in the mental health arena more than child welfare. If you feel so strongly about it, why do you continue to drug test these people? Why not refuse to do it on the grounds you feel it's unreasonable given their circumstances? The answer is because in the meantime you gotta do what you gotta do. You do your protests or whatever but continue to work within the system you were given. The part in red- I couldn't give a rat's pissy cotton ball about how you feel either BUT if people don't understand a situation how can it be changed?! Isn't that what you are calling for? If people don't understand addiction and the cycle of it, how can we hope to change how we go about treating it? It is totally ignorant to state that it doens't matter what people understand. And since this is in the religious section, the Bible tells us to get an understanding. The part in blue- thanks  . I will not participate in the further hi-jacking of this thread. If you have anything further, either start another topic or PM me. |
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Post by denounced on Apr 25, 2009 2:55:32 GMT -5
 "I can imagine that some people will start to write and chastise me for the title of this commentary before they even read what I write. It has become very apparent to me that many people don't actually read what is written and consider the points I make; they just like to tell me how wrong I am. Last week I wrote a response to the election of Barack Obama in which I referred to him as “pro-abortion”. Some of you wrote back to tell me that I was hateful for calling him this or that I was wrong; you claimed that he is pro-choice, not pro-abortion. Some even said that he is pro-life and wants to do everything he can to reduce abortions. Before I get into what his agenda is and why I stand by my words about his position, I want to tackle the pro-abortion or pro-choice argument or “rhetoric”, which is what this really is about. The rhetoric war has been won for the most part by what I call the pro-abortion movement. They have themselves adopted the term pro-choice because it sounds a lot nicer than pro-abortion. I have often wondered why they have not changed another term that they use to describe themselves, “abortion rights advocates." If they are pro-choice and not pro-abortion then why not refer to themselves as “choice rights advocates”? Let's break down the words and examine what they mean. “Pro” obviously means that you are in support of something. Pro-gun, pro-gay rights, pro-life, pro-union; these are all terms that describe something you support. Why is it then that the term pro-abortion is not used proudly? The term “pro-choice” should really embody all of the “pro” stances on every issue; it shouldn't just define one issue. When someone refers to themselves as pro-choice, what choice are they referring to? Abortion. So what they are saying is that they believe it is fine for someone to obtain an abortion, which makes them pro-abortion. If you believe people have the right to form and join unions even if you would never join one, you are pro-union. Would you be angry that someone referred to you as pro-union? Would you say I just believe in the choice to join a union, but I am not pro-union? Of course not. The use of the word choice shows that it is all about the stigma of being called pro-abortion; is there a stigma if there is nothing wrong with abortion? Why would people be so opposed to being referred to as pro-abortion if abortion is perfectly acceptable? To answer that we have to determine what abortion is. Is abortion simply the termination of a pregnancy? Is abortion just a medical procedure that removes unwanted cell masses from your body, like liposuction? The answer to those questions is a resounding no. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy, but what is a pregnancy? The Random House dictionary definition of pregnant reads: having a child or other offspring developing in the body; with child or young, as a woman or female mammal. The Cambridge Dictionary reads: of a woman and some female animals having young developing inside the womb. Abortion is the termination or killing of a developing human person in the early stages of their life. It is that simple. We can try and sanitize it with words or phrases but that does not change what it is. There are a lot of things that are unpleasant that people or organizations try to make less appalling by changing the words used to describe them. As a parent I am guilty of this myself. When my children need to defecate I do not use that term; I say “go potty”. Does this change the fact that they are defecating? No, it just makes it sound less gross and nasty. That is why the pro-abortion movement wants to be referred to as pro-choice, not pro-abortion; abortion carries a stigma that they don't want to be identified with. The difference is that there is nothing wrong with defecating; it is natural and how our bodies were created to work. There is, however, something wrong with abortion; it is un-natural and destroys one of the natural functions of a woman's body. We should not give into the sanitization of abortion; it needs to be exposed for what it is. We should not allow rhetoric to define how we describe an evil like the killing of innocent human persons. I have often heard people say that they would love to see abortion reduced or minimized. Why? If there is nothing immoral or wrong about abortion then why would we care how many people had them? Why would we want to reduce something that is perfectly ok? If you want to reduce them then you must think there is something wrong with them; what is it that is wrong? This is one of the ways that Barack Obama has tried to characterize himself to people. He tries to sound like he is not the pro-abortion advocate that he really is. His own words and record contradict that; what he will do as President will be dangerous and devastating to this nation and the world. This week we have already heard that he will be reversing lifesaving Executive Orders that will result in the destruction of human life worldwide. He plans to reverse the Mexico City Policy which blocks the US Government from giving money to organizations who provide abortion in other countries. We will be paying for abortions overseas with our tax dollars. He will open up the funding of destruction of human embryos for research paid for with your tax dollars. This is just the beginning of the destruction of human life that has been and will continue to be championed by Barack Obama. During the primary season he spoke at a Planned Parenthood event and promised them that he one of the first things he would do as President is sign the FOCA bill into law. The Freedom of Choice Act will wipe out all restrictions on abortion in this country. There will be no more parental notification, no restrictions whatsoever including the Partial Birth Abortion Ban and an increase in federal funding of abortion. How can you say you want to reduce abortions, and wipe out every restriction there is, and fund abortion in the US and other countries with US tax dollars? The pro-life movement and, more importantly, the sanctity of human life will be set back over 30 years once Barack Obama takes the Office of President. I have been told that speaking negatively about the President is hateful and disrespectful. I have been told that I need to support our new President and just pray for him. I agree that we need to pray for him, and pray hard. I however disagree that pointing out the truth of what he plans to do, and has promised to do is hateful in any way. I would even argue that silence would be hateful; apathy and acceptance of his plans would be disrespectful to those whose lives are in jeopardy. I know that God is still on the throne and He is sovereign. I know that God is not worried, panicking or hiding in a corner in fear. I know that He is still our King and our only hope is in His Son, Jesus. I also know that He commands us to “ love our neighbor as ourselves ” (Luke 10:27). When our neighbors are dying by the thousands every day in this nation, we have an obligation to stand up and fight for their lives. God calls us to “ rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter ” (Proverbs 24:11). I will not cheapen the sanctity of life or sanitize the pro-abortion movement by using the term pro-choice. I will not sit quietly by as my brothers and sisters are being slaughtered in abortion mills every day. I will pray for, but not support, our President as he opens the floodgates and destroys all regulations and restrictions against the killing of innocent children. Logic 101 A fetus is a human being. Killing a human being is wrong. Abortion is killing a human being. Abortion is wrong. To say you are pro-choice but not pro-abortion, is simply illogical." www.lifenews.com/nat4573.htmlThis is what happens when you give the devil a "CHOICE", and he chooses to deceive you. Now we want to talk about God and FREE WILL as it relates to "pro-choice"......... Who do you think is manipulating your "Pro-choice" as it relates to abortion? |
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Post by Cambist on Apr 27, 2009 7:24:29 GMT -5
Free Will - A sadistic joke
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Post by DamieQue™ on Apr 27, 2009 7:49:31 GMT -5
So this conversation is still going on?
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Post by Cambist on Apr 27, 2009 8:18:39 GMT -5
Nope...I was just trying to be the last poster in each Topic this morning.
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). I was asking you the question for clarification (something you clearly do not value). What sense did it make for me to address psychotrophic medications if that's not what you meant? 
. Look, no one likes removing children but the truth is there are situations that call for it. Have you even verified that those are specific reasons for removal in your state? Is it possible that you don't know the full history behind a particular family? Instead of attacking the social workers, why not take a deeper look at your state laws which dicate the things you are complaining about? Then you wouldn't need an semi-anonymous message board to answer your question. 
. I will not participate in the further hi-jacking of this thread. If you have anything further, either start another topic or PM me. 