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Post by denounced on Jan 25, 2009 22:23:58 GMT -5
 "I can imagine that some people will start to write and chastise me for the title of this commentary before they even read what I write. It has become very apparent to me that many people don't actually read what is written and consider the points I make; they just like to tell me how wrong I am. Last week I wrote a response to the election of Barack Obama in which I referred to him as “pro-abortion”. Some of you wrote back to tell me that I was hateful for calling him this or that I was wrong; you claimed that he is pro-choice, not pro-abortion. Some even said that he is pro-life and wants to do everything he can to reduce abortions. Before I get into what his agenda is and why I stand by my words about his position, I want to tackle the pro-abortion or pro-choice argument or “rhetoric”, which is what this really is about. The rhetoric war has been won for the most part by what I call the pro-abortion movement. They have themselves adopted the term pro-choice because it sounds a lot nicer than pro-abortion. I have often wondered why they have not changed another term that they use to describe themselves, “abortion rights advocates." If they are pro-choice and not pro-abortion then why not refer to themselves as “choice rights advocates”? Let's break down the words and examine what they mean. “Pro” obviously means that you are in support of something. Pro-gun, pro-gay rights, pro-life, pro-union; these are all terms that describe something you support. Why is it then that the term pro-abortion is not used proudly? The term “pro-choice” should really embody all of the “pro” stances on every issue; it shouldn't just define one issue. When someone refers to themselves as pro-choice, what choice are they referring to? Abortion. So what they are saying is that they believe it is fine for someone to obtain an abortion, which makes them pro-abortion. If you believe people have the right to form and join unions even if you would never join one, you are pro-union. Would you be angry that someone referred to you as pro-union? Would you say I just believe in the choice to join a union, but I am not pro-union? Of course not. The use of the word choice shows that it is all about the stigma of being called pro-abortion; is there a stigma if there is nothing wrong with abortion? Why would people be so opposed to being referred to as pro-abortion if abortion is perfectly acceptable? To answer that we have to determine what abortion is. Is abortion simply the termination of a pregnancy? Is abortion just a medical procedure that removes unwanted cell masses from your body, like liposuction? The answer to those questions is a resounding no. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy, but what is a pregnancy? The Random House dictionary definition of pregnant reads: having a child or other offspring developing in the body; with child or young, as a woman or female mammal. The Cambridge Dictionary reads: of a woman and some female animals having young developing inside the womb. Abortion is the termination or killing of a developing human person in the early stages of their life. It is that simple. We can try and sanitize it with words or phrases but that does not change what it is. There are a lot of things that are unpleasant that people or organizations try to make less appalling by changing the words used to describe them. As a parent I am guilty of this myself. When my children need to defecate I do not use that term; I say “go potty”. Does this change the fact that they are defecating? No, it just makes it sound less gross and nasty. That is why the pro-abortion movement wants to be referred to as pro-choice, not pro-abortion; abortion carries a stigma that they don't want to be identified with. The difference is that there is nothing wrong with defecating; it is natural and how our bodies were created to work. There is, however, something wrong with abortion; it is un-natural and destroys one of the natural functions of a woman's body. We should not give into the sanitization of abortion; it needs to be exposed for what it is. We should not allow rhetoric to define how we describe an evil like the killing of innocent human persons. I have often heard people say that they would love to see abortion reduced or minimized. Why? If there is nothing immoral or wrong about abortion then why would we care how many people had them? Why would we want to reduce something that is perfectly ok? If you want to reduce them then you must think there is something wrong with them; what is it that is wrong? This is one of the ways that Barack Obama has tried to characterize himself to people. He tries to sound like he is not the pro-abortion advocate that he really is. His own words and record contradict that; what he will do as President will be dangerous and devastating to this nation and the world. This week we have already heard that he will be reversing lifesaving Executive Orders that will result in the destruction of human life worldwide. He plans to reverse the Mexico City Policy which blocks the US Government from giving money to organizations who provide abortion in other countries. We will be paying for abortions overseas with our tax dollars. He will open up the funding of destruction of human embryos for research paid for with your tax dollars. This is just the beginning of the destruction of human life that has been and will continue to be championed by Barack Obama. During the primary season he spoke at a Planned Parenthood event and promised them that he one of the first things he would do as President is sign the FOCA bill into law. The Freedom of Choice Act will wipe out all restrictions on abortion in this country. There will be no more parental notification, no restrictions whatsoever including the Partial Birth Abortion Ban and an increase in federal funding of abortion. How can you say you want to reduce abortions, and wipe out every restriction there is, and fund abortion in the US and other countries with US tax dollars? The pro-life movement and, more importantly, the sanctity of human life will be set back over 30 years once Barack Obama takes the Office of President. I have been told that speaking negatively about the President is hateful and disrespectful. I have been told that I need to support our new President and just pray for him. I agree that we need to pray for him, and pray hard. I however disagree that pointing out the truth of what he plans to do, and has promised to do is hateful in any way. I would even argue that silence would be hateful; apathy and acceptance of his plans would be disrespectful to those whose lives are in jeopardy. I know that God is still on the throne and He is sovereign. I know that God is not worried, panicking or hiding in a corner in fear. I know that He is still our King and our only hope is in His Son, Jesus. I also know that He commands us to “ love our neighbor as ourselves ” (Luke 10:27). When our neighbors are dying by the thousands every day in this nation, we have an obligation to stand up and fight for their lives. God calls us to “ rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter ” (Proverbs 24:11). I will not cheapen the sanctity of life or sanitize the pro-abortion movement by using the term pro-choice. I will not sit quietly by as my brothers and sisters are being slaughtered in abortion mills every day. I will pray for, but not support, our President as he opens the floodgates and destroys all regulations and restrictions against the killing of innocent children. Logic 101 A fetus is a human being. Killing a human being is wrong. Abortion is killing a human being. Abortion is wrong. To say you are pro-choice but not pro-abortion, is simply illogical." www.lifenews.com/nat4573.html |
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Post by water on Jan 27, 2009 10:49:44 GMT -5
8 weeks old  America the killing Fields |
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Post by BlackPrincess on Jan 31, 2009 19:10:51 GMT -5
*sigh*...
Denounce, I gave you the um, respect to read what you wrote. My reponse is forthcoming.
Water, u a knuckle head!
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Post by Robelite on Feb 9, 2009 12:27:14 GMT -5
It's a shame when "righteous and devout" prophets can only campaign against ONE perceived transgression. With all the isht going on this world, these two continue to blow the abortion horn.
I suppose they think that will be their ticket into Heaven.
"Well, Jesus, lawd, I preached...and preached...and preached agin' a'boshun for much of my grown life." "A'so, I railed agin' them greeks, wushupin' they false gods and all." "Sholey I gits some credit fu that, don't I?"
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Post by Cambist on Feb 9, 2009 12:57:15 GMT -5
<<== is dying at Robs dialect!
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Post by water on Feb 9, 2009 20:22:17 GMT -5
You say one; here is two; i can show three and four
Holiness is all there is.... pray if you need some more
that what our Savior died for
so we can stay covered by His Blood
thats love for murderers , perverts, hookers, liars and thugs
One Love is what the saints are yelling no need for sinners to fear ...
abortion is baby murder that's clear but you don't hear...
and if you do then Praise God for divine revelation.
Lets wake up our families , our communities and then our Nation
America the Beautiful lets live up to the Name
I am hoping for the best in a world that has no Shame.
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Post by denounced on Feb 14, 2009 20:01:59 GMT -5
Robe, if you were as smart as you and others thought you were, you would understand that abortion alone covers many more transgressions. So take time, and if you are able to respond without your foul mouth involved, please feel free to list all the other transgressions involved. Maybe then, you can say to your god what you did to help one of his followers out.
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Post by denounced on Feb 14, 2009 20:03:57 GMT -5
Is abortion a ticket to heaven robe?
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Post by BlackPrincess on Feb 16, 2009 23:25:04 GMT -5
One of the things that makes GOD so Magnificent is that upon creation he endowed us with the gift of free will. We have the choice to follow him or NOT. Another thing that makes GOD so great is that IF we make a choice that was not in line with his word HE forgives us, IF we genuinely repent. And even then, GOD is not forcing us to repent.
One of the things that make this country so great is the IDEA that we can choose what side of the fence we prefer to stand on when it comes to political and social issues as well as religious views. See, here I use the word idea because man has this tendency to force choices upon us or place certain obstacles in our way which inhibits our free will. It prevents us from using that gift from GOD. This becomes nothing more than coercion. Ok my point you are saying?
First, PRO CHOICE means that females should have the right to decide what we want to do with our bodies when it comes to bearing children = Right to choose. We should not be forced to abort if we are single, unmarried or under the age of 18 (Pro abortionists’ perspective), nor, should we be forced to carry a fetus full term and give it up for adoption (Anti-abortionists’ perspective). What’s even worse is that while the female carries this baby to term she is FORCED to develop maternal feelings for a fetus that she doesn’t want which may ultimately FORCE her into keeping the child. Some may say this is a good thing but THIS is NOT FREE WILL.
The difference between Pro Choice and Pro Abortion is that the former suggests utilizing the free will God bestowed on us while the latter forces us to perform an act. Ironically, Pro abortion is similar to ANTI abortion in that it forces us NOT to perform an act – Force being the operative word.
So, it is very logical for someone to be pro-choice rather than pro-abortion. President Obama would not choose abortion if he had to make that decision but he would not force someone NOT to have one.
Denounce and Water, to have or NOT to have an abortion is a decision that MUST be between the female and God. It’s not for you to spew scriptures attempting to establish why we should not have an abortion or by posting pics of a helpless fetus to guilt us from having an abortion. This is coercion! The gift of free will in addition to prayer is how decisions are made.
AS PRESIDENT OBAMA SUGGESTS OUR FOCUS SHOULD BE ON FINDING WAYS TO REDUCE UNWANTED PREGNANCIES AND THERE IS NOTHING ILLOGICAL ABOUT THAT.
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Feb 17, 2009 0:12:28 GMT -5
One of the things that makes GOD so Magnificent is that upon creation he endowed us with the gift of free will. We have the choice to follow him or NOT. Another thing that makes GOD so great is that IF we make a choice that was not in line with his word HE forgives us, IF we genuinely repent. And even then, GOD is not forcing us to repent. One of the things that make this country so great is the IDEA that we can choose what side of the fence we prefer to stand on when it comes to political and social issues as well as religious views. See, here I use the word idea because man has this tendency to force choices upon us or place certain obstacles in our way which inhibits our free will. It prevents us from using that gift from GOD. This becomes nothing more than coercion. Ok my point you are saying? First, PRO CHOICE means that females should have the right to decide what we want to do with our bodies when it comes to bearing children = Right to choose. We should not be forced to abort if we are single, unmarried or under the age of 18 (Pro abortionists’ perspective), nor, should we be forced to carry a fetus full term and give it up for adoption (Anti-abortionists’ perspective). What’s even worse is that while the female carries this baby to term she is FORCED to develop maternal feelings for a fetus that she doesn’t want which may ultimately FORCE her into keeping the child. Some may say this is a good thing but THIS is NOT FREE WILL. The difference between Pro Choice and Pro Abortion is that the former suggests utilizing the free will God bestowed on us while the latter forces us to perform an act. Ironically, Pro abortion is similar to ANTI abortion in that it forces us NOT to perform an act – Force being the operative word. So, it is very logical for someone to be pro-choice rather than pro-abortion. President Obama would not choose abortion if he had to make that decision but he would not force someone NOT to have one. Denounce and Water, to have or NOT to have an abortion is a decision that MUST be between the female and God. It’s not for you to spew scriptures attempting to establish why we should not have an abortion or by posting pics of a helpless fetus to guilt us from having an abortion. This is coercion! The gift of free will in addition to prayer is how decisions are made. AS PRESIDENT OBAMA SUGGESTS OUR FOCUS SHOULD BE ON FINDING WAYS TO REDUCE UNWANTED PREGNANCIES AND THERE IS NOTHING ILLOGICAL ABOUT THAT. |
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Post by denounced on Feb 17, 2009 21:51:18 GMT -5
One of the things that makes GOD so Magnificent is that upon creation he endowed us with the gift of free will. We have the choice to follow him or NOT. Another thing that makes GOD so great is that IF we make a choice that was not in line with his word HE forgives us, IF we genuinely repent. And even then, GOD is not forcing us to repent. One of the things that make this country so great is the IDEA that we can choose what side of the fence we prefer to stand on when it comes to political and social issues as well as religious views. See, here I use the word idea because man has this tendency to force choices upon us or place certain obstacles in our way which inhibits our free will. It prevents us from using that gift from GOD. This becomes nothing more than coercion. Ok my point you are saying? First, PRO CHOICE means that females should have the right to decide what we want to do with our bodies when it comes to bearing children = Right to choose. We should not be forced to abort if we are single, unmarried or under the age of 18 (Pro abortionists’ perspective), nor, should we be forced to carry a fetus full term and give it up for adoption (Anti-abortionists’ perspective). What’s even worse is that while the female carries this baby to term she is FORCED to develop maternal feelings for a fetus that she doesn’t want which may ultimately FORCE her into keeping the child. Some may say this is a good thing but THIS is NOT FREE WILL. The difference between Pro Choice and Pro Abortion is that the former suggests utilizing the free will God bestowed on us while the latter forces us to perform an act. Ironically, Pro abortion is similar to ANTI abortion in that it forces us NOT to perform an act – Force being the operative word. So, it is very logical for someone to be pro-choice rather than pro-abortion. President Obama would not choose abortion if he had to make that decision but he would not force someone NOT to have one. Denounce and Water, to have or NOT to have an abortion is a decision that MUST be between the female and God. It’s not for you to spew scriptures attempting to establish why we should not have an abortion or by posting pics of a helpless fetus to guilt us from having an abortion. This is coercion! The gift of free will in addition to prayer is how decisions are made. AS PRESIDENT OBAMA SUGGESTS OUR FOCUS SHOULD BE ON FINDING WAYS TO REDUCE UNWANTED PREGNANCIES AND THERE IS NOTHING ILLOGICAL ABOUT THAT. I didn't really expect too much, even after 18 days. "Facts on Fetal Development. 18 days - heart begins to beat." www.prolife.com/FETALDEV.html"Obama Revokes Abortion Funding Policy, Will Fund Overseas Abortions with Taxpayer Money" www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/jan/09012309.htmlWhat about that do you not understand? I cannot or maybe I can believe the plethora of inhumanity in your response. Somebody offered you manure, and by your free will, you decided to eat it. Irregardless of the odor, knowledge of what it is, you still ate it, and you love it. Wow, this is one for the PowerPoint. Greek or not, this is sick. |
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Post by BlackPrincess on Feb 18, 2009 10:17:14 GMT -5
You wrote in your very first paragraph of the initial post....
"I can imagine that some people will start to write and chastise me for the title of this commentary before they even read what I write. It has become very apparent to me that many people don't actually read what is written and consider the points I make; they just like to tell me how wrong I am..." hmmm....
It took 18 days (actually less but regardless) to read and consider the points you made. But you didn't give me that courtesy. Instead, you took one second to read and ridicule my points concluding that I lack compassion (or worse). You even stated that you didn't expect too much, while waiting for my response!!! So you had no intention on giving my comment a fair reading. Where was YOUR consideration? Or is that you only consider points that are similar to yours? You wanted to know the difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice. I offered you a genuine distinction.
Denounce, you say that my response lacks compassion for human life. You say this why? Because I say that women should have the right to choose? You believe that forcing someone to act a certain way, force-feeding them with a tunnel -vision view shows compassion and love? I watched the Stepford Wives (the original one with Katherine Ross) is that how you think God wanted the world to be? If yes, then I must wonder what God YOU serve...
You say that somebody offered me manure and I decided to chomp it up...well you are wrong AGAIN...YOU would be that person offering me manure and clearly, I reject it!
Denounce, as an expecting mother I understand I a lot! I am happy that I had a chance to DECIDE whether to keep my baby or not and BELIEVE ME I weighed BOTH options before leaving it in God's hands! It wasn't the picture of a 8-week fetus or a week to week break down of fetal development that aided my decision! That is what YOU do not understand!
As for PowerPoint, I’m glad that you felt my comment was “worthy” enough to put on display...sad thing is I know you will edit the hell out of it to fit your agenda!...LOL
Good day Denounce...
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Post by Robelite on Feb 18, 2009 10:53:36 GMT -5
Exhalt!!!
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Post by Cambist on Feb 18, 2009 11:38:50 GMT -5
You wrote in your very first paragraph of the initial post.... "I can imagine that some people will start to write and chastise me for the title of this commentary before they even read what I write. It has become very apparent to me that many people don't actually read what is written and consider the points I make; they just like to tell me how wrong I am..." hmmm.... It took 18 days (actually less but regardless) to read and consider the points you made. But you didn't give me that courtesy. Instead, you took one second to read and ridicule my points concluding that I lack compassion (or worse). You even stated that you didn't expect too much, while waiting for my response!!! So you had no intention on giving my comment a fair reading. Where was YOUR consideration? Or is that you only consider points that are similar to yours? You wanted to know the difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice. I offered you a genuine distinction. Denounce, you say that my response lacks compassion for human life. You say this why? Because I say that women should have the right to choose? You believe that forcing someone to act a certain way, force-feeding them with a tunnel -vision view shows compassion and love? I watched the Stepford Wives (the original one with Katherine Ross) is that how you think God wanted the world to be? If yes, then I must wonder what God YOU serve... You say that somebody offered me manure and I decided to chomp it up...well you are wrong AGAIN...YOU would be that person offering me manure and clearly, I reject it! Denounce, as an expecting mother I understand I a lot! I am happy that I had a chance to DECIDE whether to keep my baby or not and BELIEVE ME I weighed BOTH options before leaving it in God's hands! It wasn't the picture of a 8-week fetus or a week to week break down of fetal development that aided my decision! That is what YOU do not understand! As for PowerPoint, I’m glad that you felt my comment was “worthy” enough to put on display...sad thing is I know you will edit the hell out of it to fit your agenda!...LOL Good day Denounce... You know I love you, right? |
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Feb 18, 2009 13:09:22 GMT -5
BP, I love you dearly ma'am, but as I have learned, you can't change the mind of someone who thinks that what they say and do is right, when you know that they will not be open to your opinions and thoughts.
I have learned, that if you don't agree with his views, you are wrong, lack compassion, and other vile things. Which is ridiculous, but hey what can you do?
You know you getting an exhalt right? And HIT ME UP ON YIM MISSY!! LOL!
<<<HypnotiqEyes.....just in case you forgot.
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Post by water on Feb 18, 2009 21:30:35 GMT -5
Bp i am loving you right now because you are having that Baby ....may you have a healthy child in the name of Yahshua... It comes down to what we as Christians call a baby . I say it starts at conception. and that's why i am totally against murdering babies in the womb.I am Pro Choice and that is we choose to have sex or not. Consequences good and bad will follow.  7 &1/2 weeks |
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Post by denounced on Mar 6, 2009 11:18:08 GMT -5
You wrote in your very first paragraph of the initial post.... "I can imagine that some people will start to write and chastise me for the title of this commentary before they even read what I write. It has become very apparent to me that many people don't actually read what is written and consider the points I make; they just like to tell me how wrong I am..." hmmm.... It took 18 days (actually less but regardless) to read and consider the points you made. But you didn't give me that courtesy. Instead, you took one second to read and ridicule my points concluding that I lack compassion (or worse). You even stated that you didn't expect too much, while waiting for my response!!! So you had no intention on giving my comment a fair reading. Where was YOUR consideration? Or is that you only consider points that are similar to yours? You wanted to know the difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice. I offered you a genuine distinction. Denounce, you say that my response lacks compassion for human life. You say this why? Because I say that women should have the right to choose? You believe that forcing someone to act a certain way, force-feeding them with a tunnel -vision view shows compassion and love? I watched the Stepford Wives (the original one with Katherine Ross) is that how you think God wanted the world to be? If yes, then I must wonder what God YOU serve... You say that somebody offered me manure and I decided to chomp it up...well you are wrong AGAIN...YOU would be that person offering me manure and clearly, I reject it! Denounce, as an expecting mother I understand I a lot! I am happy that I had a chance to DECIDE whether to keep my baby or not and BELIEVE ME I weighed BOTH options before leaving it in God's hands! It wasn't the picture of a 8-week fetus or a week to week break down of fetal development that aided my decision! That is what YOU do not understand! As for PowerPoint, I’m glad that you felt my comment was “worthy” enough to put on display...sad thing is I know you will edit the hell out of it to fit your agenda!...LOL Good day Denounce... Uh BP! Those are ot my words, notice the quotations. I very seldom give any disclaimer for what I write unless it is absolutely necessary. No apologies for ignoring the rest of your response, and no need to edit, it is worthy of its shame standing alone, all by itself. "One of the things that makes GOD so Magnificent is that upon creation he endowed us with the gift of free will. We have the choice to follow him or NOT. Another thing that makes GOD so great is that IF we make a choice that was not in line with his word HE forgives us, IF we genuinely repent. And even then, GOD is not forcing us to repent. One of the things that make this country so great is the IDEA that we can choose what side of the fence we prefer to stand on when it comes to political and social issues as well as religious views. See, here I use the word idea because man has this tendency to force choices upon us or place certain obstacles in our way which inhibits our free will. It prevents us from using that gift from GOD. This becomes nothing more than coercion. Ok my point you are saying? First, PRO CHOICE means that females should have the right to decide what we want to do with our bodies when it comes to bearing children = Right to choose. We should not be forced to abort if we are single, unmarried or under the age of 18 (Pro abortionists’ perspective), nor, should we be forced to carry a fetus full term and give it up for adoption (Anti-abortionists’ perspective). What’s even worse is that while the female carries this baby to term she is FORCED to develop maternal feelings for a fetus that she doesn’t want which may ultimately FORCE her into keeping the child. Some may say this is a good thing but THIS is NOT FREE WILL. The difference between Pro Choice and Pro Abortion is that the former suggests utilizing the free will God bestowed on us while the latter forces us to perform an act. Ironically, Pro abortion is similar to ANTI abortion in that it forces us NOT to perform an act – Force being the operative word. So, it is very logical for someone to be pro-choice rather than pro-abortion. President Obama would not choose abortion if he had to make that decision but he would not force someone NOT to have one. Denounce and Water, to have or NOT to have an abortion is a decision that MUST be between the female and God. It’s not for you to spew scriptures attempting to establish why we should not have an abortion or by posting pics of a helpless fetus to guilt us from having an abortion. This is coercion! The gift of free will in addition to prayer is how decisions are made. AS PRESIDENT OBAMA SUGGESTS OUR FOCUS SHOULD BE ON FINDING WAYS TO REDUCE UNWANTED PREGNANCIES AND THERE IS NOTHING ILLOGICAL ABOUT THAT. " BP |
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Post by denounced on Mar 6, 2009 11:22:11 GMT -5
BP, I love you dearly ma'am, but as I have learned, you can't change the mind of someone who thinks that what they say and do is right, when you know that they will not be open to your opinions and thoughts. I have learned, that if you don't agree with his views, you are wrong, lack compassion, and other vile things. Which is ridiculous, but hey what can you do? You know you getting an exhalt right? And HIT ME UP ON YIM MISSY!! LOL! <<<HypnotiqEyes.....just in case you forgot. Is it really about right and wrong or opinion? Let's see!!!! Does abortion take the life of an innocent child? Is the willful killing of an innocent human being murder? Truth is absolute. Don't forget that when answering the question. |
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Post by Cambist on Mar 6, 2009 12:27:42 GMT -5
Why does God giving us "free will" make Him so great? I actually think it's kind of sadistic and twisted notion. Especially if you believe that the "wrong" choices could land you in a firey pit of fire and brimstone burning for eternity.
....This thought needs it's own thread....
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Post by water on Mar 6, 2009 14:02:05 GMT -5
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God (John 1:13).
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures (James 1:18).
And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul (Acts 16:14).
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will (Prov. 21:1).
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy (Rom. 9:15-16).
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved… In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will (Eph. 1:3-6, 9).
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Post by nsync on Apr 11, 2009 16:23:45 GMT -5
BP is pregnant? Did I miss something? If so
COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNGGGGRRAAAAATTTTS!!!!!!
OMG! Tear
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Post by 123Diva on Apr 11, 2009 20:01:41 GMT -5
The right to life encompasses so much more than being pro-life.
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Post by peppermint on Apr 11, 2009 23:22:20 GMT -5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, How many children have you adopted? Are you currently a foster parent to children who are being, abused, neglected or abandoned to help in reunifying families or pending adoptions? |
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 12, 2009 3:12:57 GMT -5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, How many children have you adopted? Are you currently a foster parent to children who are being, abused, neglected or abandoned to help in reunifying families or pending adoptions? They don't care about them after their born  |
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Post by coldfront06 on Apr 12, 2009 8:42:18 GMT -5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, How many children have you adopted? Are you currently a foster parent to children who are being, abused, neglected or abandoned to help in reunifying families or pending adoptions? Water has a ton of kids...not sure if any of them are adopted or not, but he strikes me as an individual who certainly loves the kids. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 12, 2009 10:07:22 GMT -5
Interesting post... We can't use the extreme of what some children go through as means to justify Abortion. Please don't do that because thats the same jargon used for population control and was a hallmark of the eugenics movement. Instead of building massive treatment facilities for the affected so that the bond between mother and child stays pure this society would rather heighten the problems push the kids through the system and push them right into the jail system. I believe its like 70% of inmates in prison have been in a foster home sometime in their lives. Make the connection you will understand the true problem.
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 12, 2009 11:07:41 GMT -5
Interesting post... We can't use the extreme of what some children go through as means to justify Abortion. Please don't do that because thats the same jargon used for population control and was a hallmark of the eugenics movement. Instead of building massive treatment facilities for the affected so that the bond between mother and child stays pure this society would rather heighten the problems push the kids through the system and push them right into the jail system. I believe its like 70% of inmates in prison have been in a foster home sometime in their lives. Make the connection you will understand the true problem. I agree. But if what you say is true - "I believe its like 70% of inmates in prison have been in a foster home sometime in their lives." - and if what I believe is true; roughly 60-70% of prisoners have been physically and sexually abused as children... I say - it is counter productive to force people to have children when they don't want to. So, my question - to everyone is; If the parent knows that they are unprepared/unfit and we know that the system (for the most part) is unfit, how does forcing a person to have a child benefit, them, the child, or society? |
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Post by 123Diva on Apr 12, 2009 14:13:47 GMT -5
It absolutely hurts my heart to see and/or hear about how children are treated today. As if they asked to be brought into this world. As if they somehow told their parents to have them despite them being unfit, despite them being poor human beings who would make even poorer parents.
I have NEVER once encouraged a woman to have an abortion. And I do not believe that abortion should be used as a form of birth control. That is unacceptable. But...have you ever looked into the eyes of someone who says that they wished they had been aborted? I have, and it is heart-breaking.
I am a child-advocate and a huge part of that is making sure that their quality of life once they get here is up to par. For far too many children, this is NOT the case.
I say that to say that a person's right to life argument is made completely null and void if they do not also wish to spend time and energy in ensuring that once these babies get here, they are LOVED and are given EVERY chance to FLOURISH in this life.
This is not a pro-life or pro-choice argument...It is a pro-child, anti-abuse/mistreatment argument. Take it how who want, and do with it what you will...
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Post by peppermint on Apr 12, 2009 20:13:44 GMT -5
Interesting post... We can't use the extreme of what some children go through as means to justify Abortion. Please don't do that because thats the same jargon used for population control and was a hallmark of the eugenics movement. Instead of building massive treatment facilities for the affected so that the bond between mother and child stays pure this society would rather heighten the problems push the kids through the system and push them right into the jail system. I believe its like 70% of inmates in prison have been in a foster home sometime in their lives. Make the connection you will understand the true problem. I agree. But if what you say is true - "I believe its like 70% of inmates in prison have been in a foster home sometime in their lives." - and if what I believe is true; roughly 60-70% of prisoners have been physically and sexually abused as children... I say - it is counter productive to force people to have children when they don't want to. So, my question - to everyone is; If the parent knows that they are unprepared/unfit and we know that the system (for the most part) is unfit, how does forcing a person to have a child benefit, them, the child, or society? @vudu, where did I use abused children to justify abortion? Exact quote please LogAKAlly <3'n Keef, this is my point... people look at stats and say "foster care is the issue" No one is examining why these children are in foster care in the first place! I believe Diva said she's in child advocacy... how many times do you see DCFS personnel driving in neighborhoods like police officers seeking to snatch random children? It doesn't happen. Someone reported abuse, neglect or abandonment at some point. For whatever reason some people cannot get their ish together and parent safely. Whether we want to accept it or not, there are people out there who are very resentful about having given birth to a child. The reality is that some children are less adoptable than others. People are very quick to say to a woman that she should place the child up for adoption... what if the child is not adopted for several years and is bounced around from foster care home to foster care home? If she chooses to keep the child and needs "welfare," then society is quick to judge her and say "she shouldn't have had children." Prehaps the focus should be on lowering the unplanned pregnancy rate. In the meantime, who am I to tell someone they should not have an abortion, place the child up for adoption or keep a child because of MY beliefs? I'm not in a position to adopt the children, not too keen on providing long term financial support because her lack of planning became my emergency and unless I know her personally, I would not likely hold her hand while she's having the abortion. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 12, 2009 20:52:03 GMT -5
Before this convo continues everyone must realize two things.
#1 This society is anti family
#2 There are lots of unfit parents whose children are not in foster care.
Life isn't a utopia. For every child that is deviant because of foster care and bad parents who were unfit there are also children who are deviant with unfit parents in the home and also children who just rebel from a loving home all together and follow the bad crowd.
Saying this as a Parent... nothing is perfect. When I look in the eyes of my children I see 2 human beings who had the right to exist regardless of the circumstances. You really never know how someone will turn out. You have kids who grow up in the hood or foster care and turn out to be wonderful human beings. The opposite happens with Kids coming from great homes. Stating that regardless of the circumstance every child deserves a CHANCE to exist.
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