Renegades and YOU

[Iceman]

I know we’ve covered this territory sometime in the past, but I’m just posing a hypothetical scenario for discussion.

Ok, so it’s been clearly established that technically, renegades are not “members” of our Orgs. Some renegades were made with the full, upfront understanding that they would not be recognized on paper. Other renegades started out on the right track but due to a snafu in their paperwork, GPA, etc, their file wasn’t pushed through. Regardless, they finished pledging with the rest of their line and came through unofficially anyway. With that said, how would you interact with one who you found out was a renegade AFTER you’ve already met them, embraced them, and kicked it for a while?

I emphasized “after” for two reasons. First, most renegades that come through a process are taught everything they should technically know (history & official/unofficial challenges) and were taught how to conduct themselves when charged/challenged. Secondly, it’s not typical for a Greek to ask another perceived member right from the gate if they are a renegade or even for the renegade to admit up front that he or she is one. In addition, suppose this person was initially able to talk to you about their (active) chapter, answer anything you wanted to know about their pledge process, and even shouted out names of members in the same circles that you both know. Everything appeared to be on the up and up.

So now, you somehow found out this individual is a renegade after the fact. What would you do at this point - Would you cut them off, contact and scream on the members of this chapter that are pushing through renegades? Or, would you remain brotherly or sisterly with them, and encourage this person to get straight - even going as far as recommending them to your current chapter (if all of their on-paper requirements are met)?


Speak on it.

[FatalDST]

May 21, 2010 12:07:39 GMT -5 Iceman said:

Ok, so it’s been clearly established that technically, renegades are not “members” of our Orgs.

The End.

[Southie]

I have met individuals that were not "completely right" and I treated them kindly. (at least for the most part) I knew the situation and I even asked one if they would ever try to be legit. That person finally made its way into legit status.

[Cambist]

If that person was cool enough to hang with me and the crew then I wouldn't say anything. Why? What would it fix?

On the other hand, I had the pleasure of being charged by someone I KNEW to be a renegade. He knew I was made grad and decided to "flex". I laughed...My analogy....Just because Jose climbed the fence, worked hard, started a family and contributed to the community doesn't make him a legal citizen. So you, my friend, are like Jose....and your papers are not in order. GTFOH!!

[ReignMan19]

I just found out one of my little mentees is a renegade. Not too happy about it at all.. but that was risk that was taken so. *shrugs* ... He is working on getting it straight out tho.. Since I'm not in the orgs I speak on that endbut just knowing how much "work" he put in and not to be official is just sad...

[Blu]

I wouldn't cut them off.. I've dealt with multiple situations where I've met guys that weren't on the books, but had gone through some sort of a process to become a member. If I understand the situation, I usually try and set them on the path of getting right with Nationals. We have a system set up for individuals that had problems with their paperwork or other issues.

[Iceman]

For me, I personally agree – This person should not just be cut off. If I’ve already embraced him and shared a fraternal relationship with him, I’m not gonna switch my attitude toward the brother in an instant as soon as it’s made known. All you can do is encourage or even help them to get straight. I’ve known at least three renegades that got caught up in a bad situation applying in undergrad. It’s a moot point now, because those brothers have gone on to become legit through a grad chapter. But before they did, they did get love outside of their chapter from those who did and didn’t know their national status. At the same time, I do recall that these fellas (all on the same line) didn’t really wear nalia like that and kept a moderately low profile at events where Non Frat was at.

But it really does depend on the situation. Once somebody is way knee deep in the mix of things, I can imagine it would be hard to tell them they have to stop because of an error their prophytes made with the paperwork. I can’t see how it would be beneficial to either party to do that. Many members will let them finish, and push hard to get them legit the next go around. In the meantime, it has to be an awkward situation for them to be in. That’s why I think people should be careful not to classify these brothers or sisters in limbo simply as “perps” as there is a definite distinction. What I can say I’m not a fan of is Brothers or suspended chapters making renegades just to make them….when they already know they won’t be legit before anything even starts. Bad Business.

[All Pledging Is Legal]

Old heads have a problem with renegades more than younger members. All of the renegades I met were dudes who didn't get to go through intake at the right time. I knew one brother who was a renegade for 6 years before he went through intake. He was accepted by damn near everybody except old heads in his chapter.

The weird thing is that some of these same old heads will be cool with those who did MIP in the grad chapters that they are a part of. They will grip them up and talk to them, but will talk shit about MIP members to other made men just because they did not pledge. They only really accept those who were made and went through intake.

But to hell with it. You can't please everybody.

[Southie]

Another question would be for those that decided to get "right" via a grad chapter, how did they bond or connect with others that were brand new? Were there any issues or concerns? If the renegades went through an "underground" process and now are going through a Graduate Chapter, that might raise some eyebrows with the fellow "intake" members? or vice versa?

[AKAShannon]

Currently going through this with another org which I am a member, I have no problem as long as they are not acting like “members and are doing what it takes to become valid. Just lay low!

My problem is with the legitimate members that bring in these people. This jeopardizes your chapter as well as your org! These are the people that I will have no interactions with or respect!!!!

[godfirstmelast]

Speaking from an aspirant's perspective, it definitely makes things confusing when people are renegades. They hang\kick it with the sorority, wear the colors (but no letters, most of the time), call people their ls's, only for little old aspiring me to find out later that this person can do nothing for me later on (as far as the voting process goes), yet you pre-hazing a sistah all up.

It just ain't fair for little old me. Just ain't fair.

[peppermint]

May 21, 2010 20:53:22 GMT -5 godfirstmelast said:

Speaking from an aspirant's perspective, it definitely makes things confusing when people are renegades. They hang\kick it with the sorority, wear the colors (but no letters, most of the time), call people their ls's, only for little old aspiring me to find out later that this person can do nothing for me later on (as far as the voting process goes), yet you pre-hazing a sistah all up.

It just ain't fair for little old me. Just ain't fair.

It would be clearer if you weren't opposed to asking questions. This is why there are times you must dig deeper than surface information.

[godfirstmelast]

peppermint Of course, I found out later after I DID ask questions (this happened first semester freshman year at my school) but the point I was trying to make was that renegades run around like they are official and they aren't. When you are brand new on campus, its confusing.

[huey]

Very interesting responses. I'm not sure how it is everywhere, but where i'm at and in my region in particular renegades are members. They step, stroll, throw up signs, etc. Only people who really have a prob wit it is maybe ostracized skaters or alumni members/nationals.

And to godfirstmelast, your sorta wrong. That chapter crossed that individual, and views that individual as a member of that chapter and more than likely that member has voting rights.

I only know of one instance really where a member who pledged underground and got right in grad became a real active member in the grad chapter. More often or not that person got right and stayed active with their undergrad chap even tho their undergrad years were over.

This is a topic i really wanna talk about but can't. Maybe in a year or two :-p

[Coldfront06]

I've definitely experienced this.

When I first crossed, I met a full "line" of dudes who were supposedly frat. I was gripping them, they knew all pertinent info, we kicked it, etc. One day after a chapter meeting I was informed by our area director that I'd probably run into some guys that claimed to be frat but they really weren't...he gave me their names and all. Turns out, these dudes pledged, knew damn well that it wasn't legit going in (none of them had the required GPA, they tried to forge some transcripts)... but they've been wearing para and claiming the frat from day 1. They have basically been blackballed and have little chance of becoming legit.

I pretty much stopped associating with them after I found out. I'd speak and be cordial, but I never gripped any of them after I found out they weren't really frat. I actually work with one RIGHT NOW, he's probably 20 feet away from me as I type this. He occasionally wears para to work and I am so tempted to tell people the truth when they ask me "Isn't he your frat brother?" I think he knows that I know he isn't real, he's probably picked up on the fact that I don't greet him as a Brother anymore.

[All Pledging Is Legal]

May 21, 2010 22:06:03 GMT -5 Coldfront06 said:

I've definitely experienced this.

When I first crossed, I met a full "line" of dudes who were supposedly frat. I was gripping them, they knew all pertinent info, we kicked it, etc. One day after a chapter meeting I was informed by our area director that I'd probably run into some guys that claimed to be frat but they really weren't...he gave me their names and all. Turns out, these dudes pledged, knew damn well that it wasn't legit going in (none of them had the required GPA, they tried to forge some transcripts)... but they've been wearing para and claiming the frat from day 1. They have basically been blackballed and have little chance of becoming legit.

I pretty much stopped associating with them after I found out. I'd speak and be cordial, but I never gripped any of them after I found out they weren't really frat. I actually work with one RIGHT NOW, he's probably 20 feet away from me as I type this. He occasionally wears para to work and I am so tempted to tell people the truth when they ask me "Isn't he your frat brother?" I think he knows that I know he isn't real, he's probably picked up on the fact that I don't greet him as a Brother anymore.

You are a punk for that.

You stopped embracing him after you accepted him just because he does not have a piece of paper? I just don't get it.

This is similar to when a company finds out a person did not graduate but has been successfully doing the job for years and fires the person. Just because a piece of paper is missing, this person is bad?

But I guess that brotherhood these days is based on how much money you pay the frat and how many service events you attend. Forget about the bond of brotherhood and being friends. That stuff is for suckers. Why pledge when you can buy your way into the organization & Google pledge info?!?

[godfirstmelast]

May 21, 2010 21:49:29 GMT -5 huey said:

Very interesting responses. I'm not sure how it is everywhere, but where i'm at and in my region in particular renegades are members. They step, stroll, throw up signs, etc. Only people who really have a prob wit it is maybe ostracized skaters or alumni members/nationals.

And to godfirstmelast, your sorta wrong. That chapter crossed that individual, and views that individual as a member of that chapter and more than likely that member has voting rights.

I only know of one instance really where a member who pledged underground and got right in grad became a real active member in the grad chapter. More often or not that person got right and stayed active with their undergrad chap even tho their undergrad years were over.

This is a topic i really wanna talk about but can't. Maybe in a year or two :-p

Hey, huey. One of the members of the chapter that I spoke with wayyyy after this happened, informed me that the girl I'm talking about has no voting rights. But I feel what you are saying, they could have taken her opinion into consideration. I'm guessing a lot of chapters do the whole you'reofficial-in-our-eyes thing???

[huey]

May 21, 2010 22:34:08 GMT -5 All Pledging Is Legal said:

May 21, 2010 22:06:03 GMT -5 Coldfront06 said:

I've definitely experienced this.

When I first crossed, I met a full "line" of dudes who were supposedly frat. I was gripping them, they knew all pertinent info, we kicked it, etc. One day after a chapter meeting I was informed by our area director that I'd probably run into some guys that claimed to be frat but they really weren't...he gave me their names and all. Turns out, these dudes pledged, knew damn well that it wasn't legit going in (none of them had the required GPA, they tried to forge some transcripts)... but they've been wearing para and claiming the frat from day 1. They have basically been blackballed and have little chance of becoming legit.

I pretty much stopped associating with them after I found out. I'd speak and be cordial, but I never gripped any of them after I found out they weren't really frat. I actually work with one RIGHT NOW, he's probably 20 feet away from me as I type this. He occasionally wears para to work and I am so tempted to tell people the truth when they ask me "Isn't he your frat brother?" I think he knows that I know he isn't real, he's probably picked up on the fact that I don't greet him as a Brother anymore.

You are a punk for that.

You stopped embracing him after you accepted him just because he does not have a piece of paper? I just don't get it.

This is similar to when a company finds out a person did not graduate but has been successfully doing the job for years and fires the person. Just because a piece of paper is missing, this person is bad?

But I guess that brotherhood these days is based on how much money you pay the frat and how many service events you attend. Forget about the bond of brotherhood and being friends. That stuff is for suckers. Why pledge when you can buy your way into the organization & Google pledge info?!?

God forbid you find out your adopted, you gonna disassociate yourself from your mother and father too?

Well maybe not that extreme..

I honestly wanna know why you disassociated yourself from them.

[Elegance1913]

I have not had first-hand experience with renegades w/in my org, but I am very sure how the situation would go down.

If I ever became extremely cool with some renegades, and such status did not entail dishonesty on their behalf, I would not cut them off as associates. However, they would not be considered or treated as “Sorors” and would be advised to cease and desist presenting themselves as such. We may even discuss how to get their money back and make it right but we are not OOO-OOPing it up until they become legit. Now, if after receiving my suggestion they continue to portray themselves as members, I would shut down the relationship and make good use of my telecommunication resources - erry last one of them.

I would also be FIRE HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT with the Sorors who had a hand in this fiasco and/or told me “yeah, they’re cool” knowing dang well they are not on the books. We would most definitely have a come to Jesus discussion… I’ll stop there…

BTW – the example of the employee who lied about their credentials but kept their job does not apply here. A business is normally about their bottom line @ the end of the day so that may ride with some corporations. Although Delta is about its business, we are not just a business.

[All Pledging Is Legal]

May 22, 2010 18:58:50 GMT -5 Elegance1913 said:

I have not had first-hand experience with renegades w/in my org, but I am very sure how the situation would go down.

If I ever became extremely cool with some renegades, and such status did not entail dishonesty on their behalf, I would not cut them off as associates. However, they would not be considered or treated as “Sorors” and would be advised to cease and desist presenting themselves as such. We may even discuss how to get their money back and make it right but we are not OOO-OOPing it up until they become legit. Now, if after receiving my suggestion they continue to portray themselves as members, I would shut down the relationship and make good use of my telecommunication resources - erry last one of them.

I would also be FIRE HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT with the Sorors who had a hand in this fiasco and/or told me “yeah, they’re cool” knowing dang well they are not on the books. We would most definitely have a come to Jesus discussion… I’ll stop there…

BTW – the example of the employee who lied about their credentials but kept their job does not apply here. A business is normally about their bottom line @ the end of the day so that may ride with some corporations. Although Delta is about its business, we are not just a business.

You didn't pledge, did you? Snitch.

[Elegance1913]

May 22, 2010 19:54:23 GMT -5 All Pledging Is Legal said:

May 22, 2010 18:58:50 GMT -5 Elegance1913 said:

I have not had first-hand experience with renegades w/in my org, but I am very sure how the situation would go down.

If I ever became extremely cool with some renegades, and such status did not entail dishonesty on their behalf, I would not cut them off as associates. However, they would not be considered or treated as “Sorors” and would be advised to cease and desist presenting themselves as such. We may even discuss how to get their money back and make it right but we are not OOO-OOPing it up until they become legit. Now, if after receiving my suggestion they continue to portray themselves as members, I would shut down the relationship and make good use of my telecommunication resources - erry last one of them.

I would also be FIRE HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT with the Sorors who had a hand in this fiasco and/or told me “yeah, they’re cool” knowing dang well they are not on the books. We would most definitely have a come to Jesus discussion… I’ll stop there…

BTW – the example of the employee who lied about their credentials but kept their job does not apply here. A business is normally about their bottom line @ the end of the day so that may ride with some corporations. Although Delta is about its business, we are not just a business.

You didn't pledge, did you? Snitch.

Really? LOL

I have my views and being able to chill with folk isn't good enough reason for me to compromise them.

Now what I do find interesting is the fact that my unwillingness to call folk "Soror" all willy nilly made you wonder about my process. In the immortal words of Southie - "interesting."

[AKAShannon]

So by the same logic Huey and Apil, if you found out that your wife or current girlfriend was once a man, it wouldn't have any effect on your relationship?

[Robelite]

May 21, 2010 22:34:08 GMT -5 All Pledging Is Legal said:

May 21, 2010 22:06:03 GMT -5 Coldfront06 said:

I've definitely experienced this.

When I first crossed, I met a full "line" of dudes who were supposedly frat. I was gripping them, they knew all pertinent info, we kicked it, etc. One day after a chapter meeting I was informed by our area director that I'd probably run into some guys that claimed to be frat but they really weren't...he gave me their names and all. Turns out, these dudes pledged, knew damn well that it wasn't legit going in (none of them had the required GPA, they tried to forge some transcripts)... but they've been wearing para and claiming the frat from day 1. They have basically been blackballed and have little chance of becoming legit.

I pretty much stopped associating with them after I found out. I'd speak and be cordial, but I never gripped any of them after I found out they weren't really frat. I actually work with one RIGHT NOW, he's probably 20 feet away from me as I type this. He occasionally wears para to work and I am so tempted to tell people the truth when they ask me "Isn't he your frat brother?" I think he knows that I know he isn't real, he's probably picked up on the fact that I don't greet him as a Brother anymore.

You are a punk for that.

You stopped embracing him after you accepted him just because he does not have a piece of paper? I just don't get it.

This is similar to when a company finds out a person did not graduate but has been successfully doing the job for years and fires the person. Just because a piece of paper is missing, this person is bad?

But I guess that brotherhood these days is based on how much money you pay the frat and how many service events you attend. Forget about the bond of brotherhood and being friends. That stuff is for suckers. Why pledge when you can buy your way into the organization & Google pledge info?!?

That very mindset comes from being a "pledge freak" like you, and is why there is so much f***ed up stuff going on in orgs today.

Why then don't you just round up a bunch of nigs off the street, teach them ALL your shit, then grip them up and call them your brother? Then again, that maybe exactly what you have been doing.

This nu skoool shit is gonna be the death knell of us all!!! Where there is a renegade/ghost/perp/fake/fraud, there is a "brother" or "soror" who made them that way. That being said, I don't give two shits for the members who make the renegades/ghosts/perps/fakes/frauds!

[Sapphire]

Do you all look sideways at your legit members who create the renegade situation?

[Sapphire]

Robe is so smaht! I learned a new word.

[Robelite]

Check my modification of my post Sapphy. I think that will answer your question.

[Sapphire]

LOL. Duly noted.

[AKAShannon]

May 22, 2010 23:30:11 GMT -5 Sapphire said:

Do you all look sideways at your legit members who create the renegade situation?

Yes! If they want to give away letters, let's take theirs!

[peppermint]

May 22, 2010 23:16:03 GMT -5 AKAShannon said:

So by the same logic Huey and Apil, if you found out that your wife or current girlfriend was once a man, it wouldn't have any effect on your relationship?

LOL wow

[All Pledging Is Legal]

May 22, 2010 23:16:03 GMT -5 AKAShannon said:

So by the same logic Huey and Apil, if you found out that your wife or current girlfriend was once a man, it wouldn't have any effect on your relationship?

Why are you trying to fag me out like that? If I was dumb enough to wife up a tranny, I would be Vudu Prince!