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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 30, 2010 20:52:47 GMT -5
So by the same logic Huey and Apil, if you found out that your wife or current girlfriend was once a man, it wouldn't have any effect on your relationship? Why are you trying to fag me out like that? If I was dumb enough to wife up a tranny, I would be Vudu Prince!  |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 30, 2010 20:55:19 GMT -5
I really think renegades are a thing of the past for Fraternities. It's more dudes getting read in and getting their letters snatched within a year than renegades being made. That was a late 80's/ 90's post above ground pledging era thing.
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Post by tremab on May 31, 2010 17:05:24 GMT -5
it's not a "thing of the past" by any stretch of the imagination.
all you can do is let them know it is what it is, encourage them to get on the books, and try to fix the culture at the chapter that made them.
from what I've seen, 9/10 the "renegades" got worked, not the other way around.
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on May 31, 2010 20:07:13 GMT -5
Why are you trying to fag me out like that? If I was dumb enough to wife up a tranny, I would be Vudu Prince! That's all you got? Man, you are falling off. Tell your man-wife that it's time to shave. |
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Post by huey on May 31, 2010 20:35:58 GMT -5
it's not a "thing of the past" by any stretch of the imagination. all you can do is let them know it is what it is, encourage them to get on the books, and try to fix the culture at the chapter that made them. from what I've seen, 9/10 the "renegades" got worked, not the other way around. Encourage them to get on the books? How when their chapter is suspended? Sometimes the fix is easier said then done. |
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Post by huey on May 31, 2010 20:42:14 GMT -5
That's all you got? Man, you are falling off. Tell your man-wife that it's time to shave. Interesting.... |
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on May 31, 2010 23:00:00 GMT -5
That's all you got? Man, you are falling off. Tell your man-wife that it's time to shave. Interesting.... Are you a tranny-lover too? |
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Post by tremab on May 31, 2010 23:22:26 GMT -5
Huey:
Typically, I've seen the "renegades"/"ghosts" have to get right through the advising graduate chapter...that sometimes mean keeping a low profile and a waiting a couple of years.
It's crazy to me to type that, b/c if the graduate chapter was really advising, these things wouldn't happen.
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Post by Robelite on May 31, 2010 23:37:43 GMT -5
So you're saying that it's the fault of advising alumni chapters when ghosts are made? Just how is that? Like all the other violations that take place...pre/post/etc. these things go on in the late hours of the night.
You know anyone who patrols the homes and other residences of foolish ghost-makers when everyone else is asleep?
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Post by tremab on May 31, 2010 23:42:09 GMT -5
all I know...is that in the chapter that I advise...it's not happening.
there's some tell-tale signs that something ain't right with a situation like this that any adviser should catch.
but then again, they'd have to occasionally be present to see those signs.
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Post by peppermint on May 31, 2010 23:49:43 GMT -5
they'd have to occasionally be present to see those signs.  |
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Post by Robelite on May 31, 2010 23:51:21 GMT -5
Did you consider the fact that it's not happening because quite possibly, the college members you advise simply don't do it? Some of our college Greeks do actually have good sense, you know.
What has gone on here has NOTHING to do with lack of advisorship. The assholes who do it have their own agendas....they joined a CHAPTER rather than ALPHA! When you say present....present at what meetings, service projects, parties, other social events? We are at ALL of these things and then some, but as I stated, we aren't up 3 and 4 and morning when alot of this ignorance goes on.
They are the same ones who don't give a damned about advisors, the constitution or anything else.
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Post by tremab on May 31, 2010 23:59:59 GMT -5
my collegiates do have good sense...but also, I level with them and have earned their trust.
how have you (and the advising graduate chapter) actively tried to do to change the culture of the offending chapter?
I know some GREAT, active, hard-working brothers that started their life in my organization as "renegades."
imagine if they had been chastised and further pushed away from the right way?
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Post by Coldfront06 on Jun 1, 2010 0:07:09 GMT -5
I'm not sure I agree with that. That's kinda like saying children will never do anything wrong if the parent is doing their job correctly. Even the best parents in the world might have kids that occasionally do things they are unaware of.
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Post by Sapphire on Jun 1, 2010 0:51:19 GMT -5
Why are you trying to fag me out like that? If I was dumb enough to wife up a tranny, I would be Vudu Prince! Dead @ this pic. |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Jun 1, 2010 6:34:46 GMT -5
I'm not sure I agree with that. That's kinda like saying children will never do anything wrong if the parent is doing their job correctly. Even the best parents in the world might have kids that occasionally do things they are unaware of. |
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Post by Robelite on Jun 1, 2010 9:33:26 GMT -5
my collegiates do have good sense...but also, I level with them and have earned their trust. how have you (and the advising graduate chapter) actively tried to do to change the culture of the offending chapter? I know some GREAT, active, hard-working brothers that started their life in my organization as "renegades." imagine if they had been chastised and further pushed away from the right way? Again, you can speak for your org and no one elses. If you aren't having a problem with renegades/ghosts/perps/frauds, I'm happy for you! That's a great thing. The chapter that we advise (and where I was initiated) didn't have it before this millenium, and it doesn't have a damned thing to do with the advisors and advising chapter's lack of interaction. You said one thing right...it is indeed a CULTURE, and one that has suddenly become all the rage over the past 10 years or so. Why? I say it's because of a quote I once read by an anonymous person regarding all this renegade idiocy..."Why do we make ghosts/renegades? They add no value and are certainly more trouble than they're worth. Also, we do it these days because we have too many Greeks that are pledge crazy. They eat, sleep and drink PLEDGING." Thank your lucky stars if you aren't having this problem, but also realize, if the wrong "element" infiltrates and gets it goin', all of your trust you've earned won't mean a thing because the ghost-makers have their own agendas. |
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Post by tremab on Jun 1, 2010 11:59:42 GMT -5
I don't know about your organizations, but in Sigma, no chapter supercedes another.
Alumni chapters don't act as "parents" to collegiates...we advise, not dictate.
Afterall, these are grown men in these collegiate chapters, not kids.
When advisors start to become dictators, that's when I"ve seen the break down in trust begin. Of course collegiates can easily start "getting it in" without the grad brothers knowing...but I find it hard to believe that a thoroughly-involved advisor wouldn't catch a whiff of what was brewing...
I don't want to run down the exact steps of how an intake request works in my organization b/c it's org. business, but there are MANY instances along the process where the advisor HAS to be involved.
Now a purely 100% ghost line would be a different situation, but even then, if you have a pulse for what's going on with your collegiates and their campus, how could that happen? Are you not speaking with the brothers - and not just about fraternal biz - regularly? Do you not know the interested young men? Do you speak to the on-campus advisor? What about the Greek Life Office?
Robe...I mean NO disrespect whatsoever...and I agree with you re: the living to pledge folks, but...it's WAY TOO EASY to write off collegiates entirely without taking a look in the mirror. What one does in his Fraternity, like many other things in life, is largely based off the examples that he sees around oneself.
The "renegades" brothers have more sway in chapter politics?
Where were the "legit" bros all the while?
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Post by DamieQue™ on Jun 1, 2010 14:44:03 GMT -5
Tre
Just out of curiosity - does the Grad Chapter make Renegades? If not, what example from them could the undergrads be receiving that suggests to them it's ok to do?
I guess I don't understand the "if the grad chapter fails to stop us from doing something we know we shouldn't be doing, then it's their fault that this happened" notion. Maybe that's not what you're intending to say. (These aren't trap questions by the way - you weren't the only one to say this - I'm just trying to understand it)
If the Grad Chapter can't stop pledge processes for legitimate lines (and let's be honest - they can't) what makes anyone think they could stop an underground renegade line? You don't even have a paper trail to aid your investigation.
Maybe it's an organization thing truly, cause I honestly have only met one dude who wasn't "on the books" and he had been "in" since the 80's. And no one messed with him.
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Post by Robelite on Jun 1, 2010 14:55:53 GMT -5
tremab, Dictating? Where in hell did you get that from out of anything I've posted? As Coldfront told you, all the best advising, nurturing and everything else won't keep a select one or few from violating the process and striking out with their own agendas. How you are missing that, I don't understand, but I also don't know how to explain it to you. In Alpha, collegiate chapters must have advising alumni chapters. It has nothing to do with superceding them. That's the structure of things. It's been like that for well over 40 years now, and EVERYONE in Alpha knows it, and THAT is part of the problem....the violators knowing it while yet ignoring it and trying to find ways to circumvent it. Now, you haven't had a problem of your college brothers making ghosts, and again I say, that is a wonderful thing! I applaud you and them for it, but trust me, if one freak infiltrates your ranks within the chapter you adivse (and all it takes is ONE,) all of your mentoring and guiding won't mean a damned thing to that one idiot because he has no intent of upholding your constitition to begin with! The problem we have is NOT from an entire chapter, but a few ignoramuses who as I've said, have decided "to hell with the constitution, we gone do this our way" same as those who conduct undergroud illegal intake activities. The mindsets are all the same. It is easy to lay blame on advisors/alumni chapters....that's always the M.O. of violators. Let some tell it, alumni chapters are the reason behind the Titanic sinking, the great tornado outbreak of 1974, every hurricane since Camille and I guess now you can put the earthquake in Haiti and the oil spill on the list. I hope things continue to go well for you, and I sincerely hope you NEVER have to deal with this problem, but trust me, if the day EVER comes that it rears its head in the chapter you advise, remember all these things I've shared with you.
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on Jun 1, 2010 20:59:41 GMT -5
tremab, Dictating? Where in hell did you get that from out of anything I've posted? As Coldfront told you, all the best advising, nurturing and everything else won't keep a select one or few from violating the process and striking out with their own agendas. How you are missing that, I don't understand, but I also don't know how to explain it to you. In Alpha, collegiate chapters must have advising alumni chapters. It has nothing to do with superceding them. That's the structure of things. It's been like that for well over 40 years now, and EVERYONE in Alpha knows it, and THAT is part of the problem....the violators knowing it while yet ignoring it and trying to find ways to circumvent it. Now, you haven't had a problem of your college brothers making ghosts, and again I say, that is a wonderful thing! I applaud you and them for it, but trust me, if one freak infiltrates your ranks within the chapter you adivse (and all it takes is ONE,) all of your mentoring and guiding won't mean a damned thing to that one idiot because he has no intent of upholding your constitition to begin with! The problem we have is NOT from an entire chapter, but a few ignoramuses who as I've said, have decided "to hell with the constitution, we gone do this our way" same as those who conduct undergroud illegal intake activities. The mindsets are all the same. It is easy to lay blame on advisors/alumni chapters....that's always the M.O. of violators. Let some tell it, alumni chapters are the reason behind the Titanic sinking, the great tornado outbreak of 1974, every hurricane since Camille and I guess now you can put the earthquake in Haiti and the oil spill on the list. I hope things continue to go well for you, and I sincerely hope you NEVER have to deal with this problem, but trust me, if the day EVER comes that it rears its head in the chapter you advise, remember all these things I've shared with you. That is pretty mean. Why do you want tremab's chapter to be infiltrated by renegades? All he did was share his opinion with us. He doesn't deserve to be harassed. I am not sure if you are jealous of the success of his organization or angry at the lack of success in your own. Either way, you owe that man an apology. We shouldn't be so cruel to one another. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Jun 1, 2010 21:12:56 GMT -5
tremab, Dictating? Where in hell did you get that from out of anything I've posted? As Coldfront told you, all the best advising, nurturing and everything else won't keep a select one or few from violating the process and striking out with their own agendas. How you are missing that, I don't understand, but I also don't know how to explain it to you. In Alpha, collegiate chapters must have advising alumni chapters. It has nothing to do with superceding them. That's the structure of things. It's been like that for well over 40 years now, and EVERYONE in Alpha knows it, and THAT is part of the problem....the violators knowing it while yet ignoring it and trying to find ways to circumvent it. Now, you haven't had a problem of your college brothers making ghosts, and again I say, that is a wonderful thing! I applaud you and them for it, but trust me, if one freak infiltrates your ranks within the chapter you adivse (and all it takes is ONE,) all of your mentoring and guiding won't mean a damned thing to that one idiot because he has no intent of upholding your constitition to begin with! The problem we have is NOT from an entire chapter, but a few ignoramuses who as I've said, have decided "to hell with the constitution, we gone do this our way" same as those who conduct undergroud illegal intake activities. The mindsets are all the same. It is easy to lay blame on advisors/alumni chapters....that's always the M.O. of violators. Let some tell it, alumni chapters are the reason behind the Titanic sinking, the great tornado outbreak of 1974, every hurricane since Camille and I guess now you can put the earthquake in Haiti and the oil spill on the list. I hope things continue to go well for you, and I sincerely hope you NEVER have to deal with this problem, but trust me, if the day EVER comes that it rears its head in the chapter you advise, remember all these things I've shared with you. That is pretty mean. Why do you want tremab's chapter to be infiltrated by renegades? All he did was share his opinion with us. He doesn't deserve to be harassed. I am not sure if you are jealous of the success of his organization or angry at the lack of success in your own. Either way, you owe that man an apology. We shouldn't be so cruel to one another. Has anyone found this dudes Dad yet? Niggah get your Orphan ass up outta hea. lol Here you go clown go read this and have a good night. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>  |
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on Jun 1, 2010 21:52:55 GMT -5
^ Why are you bumping for the Alphas? They don't need some mangy mutt to fight their battles. Neuter yourself.
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Post by Oldskool on Jun 1, 2010 23:43:09 GMT -5
^ Why are you bumping for the Alphas? They don't need some mangy mutt to fight their battles. Neuter yourself.
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Post by Robelite on Jun 2, 2010 0:27:08 GMT -5
tremab, Dictating? Where in hell did you get that from out of anything I've posted? As Coldfront told you, all the best advising, nurturing and everything else won't keep a select one or few from violating the process and striking out with their own agendas. How you are missing that, I don't understand, but I also don't know how to explain it to you. In Alpha, collegiate chapters must have advising alumni chapters. It has nothing to do with superceding them. That's the structure of things. It's been like that for well over 40 years now, and EVERYONE in Alpha knows it, and THAT is part of the problem....the violators knowing it while yet ignoring it and trying to find ways to circumvent it. Now, you haven't had a problem of your college brothers making ghosts, and again I say, that is a wonderful thing! I applaud you and them for it, but trust me, if one freak infiltrates your ranks within the chapter you adivse (and all it takes is ONE,) all of your mentoring and guiding won't mean a damned thing to that one idiot because he has no intent of upholding your constitition to begin with! The problem we have is NOT from an entire chapter, but a few ignoramuses who as I've said, have decided "to hell with the constitution, we gone do this our way" same as those who conduct undergroud illegal intake activities. The mindsets are all the same. It is easy to lay blame on advisors/alumni chapters....that's always the M.O. of violators. Let some tell it, alumni chapters are the reason behind the Titanic sinking, the great tornado outbreak of 1974, every hurricane since Camille and I guess now you can put the earthquake in Haiti and the oil spill on the list. I hope things continue to go well for you, and I sincerely hope you NEVER have to deal with this problem, but trust me, if the day EVER comes that it rears its head in the chapter you advise, remember all these things I've shared with you. That is pretty mean. Why do you want tremab's chapter to be infiltrated by renegades? All he did was share his opinion with us. He doesn't deserve to be harassed. I am not sure if you are jealous of the success of his organization or angry at the lack of success in your own. Either way, you owe that man an apology. We shouldn't be so cruel to one another.  |
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Post by Robelite on Jun 2, 2010 0:28:14 GMT -5
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on Jun 2, 2010 7:16:37 GMT -5
^ A game of cards & a sexy white girl is supposed to be an insult? You lost!
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Post by Robelite on Jun 2, 2010 8:31:12 GMT -5
Pledge freaks are a hoot!  Sad, but a still a hoot! |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Jun 2, 2010 11:17:46 GMT -5
^ Why are you bumping for the Alphas? They don't need some mangy mutt to fight their battles. Neuter yourself.
Hoe niggah I'll slam you whenever and whereever I feel like it. I must've hit a nerve huh? Who is your Daddy? Don't get mad at us because of ur last failed attempt at finding your dad he did this>>  |
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Post by frozenmenace on Jun 2, 2010 14:57:54 GMT -5
^ Why are you bumping for the Alphas? They don't need some mangy mutt to fight their battles. Neuter yourself.
Hoe niggah I'll slam you whenever and whereever I feel like it. I must've hit a nerve huh? Who is your Daddy? Don't get mad at us because of ur last failed attempt at finding your dad he did this>> HILARIOUS!! He was NOT the father!! |
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Sad, but a still a hoot!