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Post by THE emPRISS on Jul 12, 2008 17:25:32 GMT -5
LOL
Probably. I rarely read an entire thread...I take that back, I never read an entire thread.
LOL
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Jul 12, 2008 17:37:10 GMT -5
Besides...we have to talk about my refund...12 days were remaining! I'll have a letter drafted and sent to your HQ. No rush, I know you're good for it.
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Post by Cambist on Jul 12, 2008 18:58:23 GMT -5
Oh, I find nothing wrong with holding assets in individual names. As long as there is disclosure.
Again, that's not Plan B, that's smart planning.
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Post by T-Rex91 on Jul 12, 2008 20:30:00 GMT -5
I guess i see this a little differently. It's been a LONG minute since I've seen the movie but I thought her plan B comment was in reference to the fact that she built her whole identity around her husband and lost herself in the process. Once he was gone, she didn't know who she was because she wasn't dude's wife anymore. I thought she was talking about the emotional more than the material.
*Clarifies that she is not nor has she ever been married before she continues*
I don't think you should give up all your individual interests when you get married. You should compromise and blend your lives but still go to the gym if you want to, paint if you want to, take a trip with your girlfriends if you want to, etc. The material plan B never would have been an issue if her husband hadn't tried to defraud her out of her share of plan A's assets.
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Jul 12, 2008 20:44:19 GMT -5
@dst Oldhead...she did loose that as well. But she put off her amibitons towards her career b/c he told her to help him. He was also trying to take most of the assets and leave her with lil, but the judge saw differently.
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Post by T-Rex91 on Jul 12, 2008 20:54:06 GMT -5
yeah, notice my use of the word DEFRAUD:). She should have been smarter and made sure they truly shared things LEGALLY. the judge rectified that. I'm just saying if she hadn't lost herself emotionally she would have handled her business better-not separate assets, just proper billing on the ones they supposedly shared.
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Post by goldenepiphany on Jul 12, 2008 21:39:52 GMT -5
I always think its best to have seperate plus joint accounts in a relationship....
If something falls through then you always have another plan....But If you go into a MARRIAGE thinking that it will fall apart then it will.
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Post by THE emPRISS on Jul 12, 2008 21:57:59 GMT -5
Besides...we have to talk about my refund...12 days were remaining! I'll have a letter drafted and sent to your HQ. No rush, I know you're good for it. Uhhh....negroid please. We dont do refunds 'round here...you break, you buy. Sorry.  |
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Post by THE emPRISS on Jul 12, 2008 21:58:11 GMT -5
Oh, I find nothing wrong with holding assets in individual names. As long as there is disclosure. Again, that's not Plan B, that's smart planning. Then we agree  |
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Post by THE emPRISS on Jul 12, 2008 21:59:55 GMT -5
I guess i see this a little differently. It's been a LONG minute since I've seen the movie but I thought her plan B comment was in reference to the fact that she built her whole identity around her husband and lost herself in the process. Once he was gone, she didn't know who she was because she wasn't dude's wife anymore. I thought she was talking about the emotional more than the material. *Clarifies that she is not nor has she ever been married before she continues* I don't think you should give up all your individual interests when you get married. You should compromise and blend your lives but still go to the gym if you want to, paint if you want to, take a trip with your girlfriends if you want to, etc. The material plan B never would have been an issue if her husband hadn't tried to defraud her out of her share of plan A's assets. Yea, seemed like he was the one with the Plan B all along....become successful and leave her. He structured everything that way from the beginning. He knew what he was doing. She, on the otherhand, went in on blind faith and love.....see where it got her. |
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Jul 12, 2008 22:16:26 GMT -5
Besides...we have to talk about my refund...12 days were remaining! I'll have a letter drafted and sent to your HQ. No rush, I know you're good for it. Uhhh....negroid please. We dont do refunds 'round here...you break, you buy. Sorry. **PLAY** Juicy broke him...now I'm not sure if that was BEFORE you took him on or AFTER. Therefore, I'm sueing one uv ya!  Now, you'll either be a witness or the defendent...but I plans to get my money... **PAUSE** SURE LOOKS THAT WAY TO ME!! Except his plan B was BOO-TAY! |
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Jul 12, 2008 22:19:03 GMT -5
I always think its best to have seperate plus joint accounts in a relationship.... If something falls through then you always have another plan....But If you go into a MARRIAGE thinking that it will fall apart then it will. That's not COMPLETELY true. I understand self fufilled prophecy...but we're talking about Women who did NOT believe their marriage would end...thus they feel blind sided, ill-prepared and left out to dry. |
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Post by Cambist on Jul 12, 2008 22:41:28 GMT -5
My argument is for disclosure...on both ends. Everything else is details. If he or she has any Plan that is not disclosed then it is wrong.
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Jul 12, 2008 22:50:26 GMT -5
My argument is for disclosure...on both ends. Everything else is details. If he or she has any Plan that is not disclosed then it is wrong.  |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Jul 13, 2008 0:49:56 GMT -5
All this plan B talk - really sounds like extra work. If you are that skiddish going into the marriage - just get a pre-nup. It's no less "just in case" than separate accounts/assets.
I am not an advocate for women being in a position where they are partially or totally dependent on a man. I don't think they should be. Ideally you want to marry someone who isn't - that is Plan A. She shouldn't need a back up plan any more than you do. The stuff that I'm hearing being called Plan B to me ought to be the the things YOU bring to the table that makes the other person want to marry you (you're educated, you're invested, you're capable of operating on your own, you have assets). And honestly, it didn't sound like that's how this was being presented - it was seemed like it was being presented as a secret pact of the Sisterhood. And honestly to me - that is b.s. to the 3rd power multiplied by Bill Gates Money. Having a "secret" account is no different than having a "secret" mistress as far as I'm concerned. They are both breaches of trust.
I won't bother addressing the "men are intimidated by educated women" argument being the cause for black women not marrying other than to say it's an over simplification on par with saying "there's only one ingredient that makes a stew".
Anyone interested in getting their block knocked off arguing against me on this point - be my guest. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Jul 13, 2008 1:22:04 GMT -5
<~rolling up sleeves... <~thinking... why he talking about me like I ain't even in the room?? Again...your suggestions, as well as Cams and MINE are correct. That is how things should be. But we know, that's not how they are. Teens shouldn't have babies...but after she's pregnant...you don't tell her what she should have done...you tell her what to do NOW and for the future. I know I had a list of 4 things and even added that I left of several others in the interest of attention span and space. I'm not a reductionist. The reasons for this trend in unwed Black Educated women is EXTREMELY multidimensional. I merely brought up a few that are concrete, prevelent and commonsensical, regardless of how controversal. Although the men here may not subscribe to that opinion...there are several that do. C'mon...now. Let's be real. It's not as if this hasn't been addressed over and over again. There ARE men who take issue with a woman being smarter or making more money...PERIOD! IT may not be you...it may not be the primary reason why...but it is a factor. IF you want to REALLY get down...let's stop addressing the side effects while negating the true cause. Women have historically been disenfranchised. Men have taken advantage of their positions of power in marriages. I DARE YOU TO SAY OTHERWISE!A culture of mistrust has sprung fourth. It's sad...I wish it weren't. But the greater questions is... WHY have and do women feel the need to take such precautions??Don't worry...I'll wait.... |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Jul 13, 2008 2:03:41 GMT -5
<---= rips the sleeves off of Pikas Shirt
<---= talking like Pika ain't in the room cause she ain't saying nuffin'
<---= drops his hat and coat on her on his way into room
I don't believe I'm making an argument about theoretical vs. practical. The reasons for the trends in marriage ARE multidimensional - the analysis that is taken on by individuals in my experience rarely is. Most often, especially in this case, the cause that is cherry picked from the number of reasons, is usually one that outwardly blames others and leaves LITTLE room for introspection. No one wants to be the co-author of their own misery - even when they are. So it is both convenient and comfortable to say, "I don't have a man because they're intimidated by my education" when in fact they may just not like the position of your a$$ on your shoulders. The fact that some men can be intimidated by some women means nothing if it doesn't apply to the women who are citing it as the reason they aren't married.
As far as your dare, you should have triple dog dared me. I would refute your claim but it's way too broad to refute or substantiate. And even if we chose to hop down that rabbit hole, I think there's something to be said for personal history vs. public history (and the attempt to merge them together). I'm sure there is some overlap between our own life experiences and the collective life experiences of the world... but they are NOT one and the same. You do NOT have the right to appropriate victim status for injuries that YOU never incurred - merely because there is history that exists. Nor can you claim victim status if that injury is SELF inflicted - despite history. If you go get a thuggish acting dude, and he does you wrong - it's still true that some men are intimidated by educated women - but that doesn't excuse YOUR poor decision - nor is it necessarily the reason why you don't have someone. A fact that is surprisingly frequently overlooked often when I have these kind of conversations.
Additionally there is NO rule that says you have to stay with an insecure dude. That takes me back to something I've always said on this board: You are at least ONE common denominator in EVERY bad relationship you have ever had. You cannot escape your accountability. We can pull out all the non-related, tangentially related, or fully related historical precedence you like - but NO ONE is bound by historical precedence. You have choice. And because you have choice you also have accountability.
Do you still wanna take a stab at this question?
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Post by Kryptik on Jul 13, 2008 3:07:17 GMT -5
I will take a stab here again... lol
I think that separate bank accounts is a good thing, as long as "everything" is fully disclosed in the beginning. Lets keep one joint account for all household needs, each depositing "relatively" the same amount each paycheck.
A marriage should be a "partnership" in all facets of the word. If I happened to make 30k a year and my wife made 10k but had 20k in savings, I would be highly disappointed if at the end of the year I only had 10k and she still had 20k in savings. If we enter into the marriage with full disclosure and treat it like a partnership... no one "should" be left hurt.
Worse case, we both leave with what personal funds we had before the marriage, and equitably split those "shared" items.
Okay... I know that I may just be repeating some of what others have said, but I needed some distraction!
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Post by 123Diva on Jul 13, 2008 8:58:39 GMT -5
I tend to agree with Cam and Search (for the most part with this one). Am I weary of marriage? Yup. Why? Because I have seen very few examples of successful ones.
However, the day that 'Diva decides to walk down the aisle, it MUST be with the intent that I am going to give it all I've got. If I am about to get married and am worried about divorce ad nauseum, I need to call the shindig off...for real. When or rather if I walk down the aisle I need me and the man to not even be considering divorce as an out. Could something still go wrong? Absolutely. But then I still have my education, my ambition, my support base, and my ability to simply exist on my own. Like the men have said, that is not and should not be my feminist Plan B. That is Plan A. It is simply how 'Diva rolls.
Perhaps women (and men alike) need to stop going into marriage thinking that love and sex will pay the bills. You still need education, and an overall sense of self no matter how wonderful your boo is.
Committment is number 1, then maybe love. If you are in love, but commitment scares the be-Jesus out of you, then remain single...marriage ain't for everybody and some days I really believe it's not for me.
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Jul 13, 2008 12:57:31 GMT -5
The fact that some men can be intimidated by some women means nothing if it doesn't apply to the women who are citing it as the reason they aren't married.
But I never offered it as the Universal reason, nor a One Size Fits Alls...it was merely 1 factor of many. IT DOES apply to some.
As far as your dare, you should have triple dog dared me. I would refute your claim but it's way too broad to refute or substantiate. And even if we chose to hop down that rabbit hole, I think there's something to be said for personal history vs. public history (and the attempt to merge them together). I'm sure there is some overlap between our own life experiences and the collective life experiences of the world... but they are NOT one and the same.
Damie. Fareal? 
I asked the we look at the LARGER picture, b/c there is NO way to correctly analyze it w/o doing so. That's like examing the problems of Black folks in America w/o addressing Slavery!
You think you can do these BUT you CAN'T NEMO!!
;D
Have you ever heard of the Sociological Imagination...C. Wright Mills?
Example of the SocioLOGICAL Imagination:
An individual may attribute his/her inability to find a job to his personal characteristics rather than the larger social forces at work such as the economy and job market. Individuals who feel this way are, as Mills describes, "trapped" due to their narrowed vision of the problem of unemployment.
Mills offers a solution to this feeling of being trapped. He argues that because:
"neither the life of an individual nor the history of a society can be understood without understanding both", we need to develop a way of understanding the interaction between individual lives and society. This understanding is what Mills calls Sociological Imagination: the 'quality of mind' which allows one to grasp "history and biography and the relations between the two within society". Mills believed, however, that "ordinary people do not possess the quality of mind essential to grasp the interplay of man and society, of biography and history, of self and world"
This applies to all systems of inequality.
You do NOT have the right to appropriate victim status for injuries that YOU never incurred - merely because there is history that exists. Nor can you claim victim status if that injury is SELF inflicted - despite history.
I guess that's why Blacks will NEVER get reparations huh?
(insert the most sarcastic voice you can here)
I mean...I was NEVER a slave myself...I've never been beat. And I guess since slavery is over, all of the negative behaviors that Blacks participate in, especially SELF hatred should be blamed solely on the individuals.
Additionally there is NO rule that says you have to stay with an insecure dude. That takes me back to something I've always said on this board: You are at least ONE common denominator in EVERY bad relationship you have ever had. You cannot escape your accountability. We can pull out all the non-related, tangentially related, or fully related historical precedence you like - but NO ONE is bound by historical precedence. You have choice. And because you have choice you also have accountability. [/blockquote] OK..you lost me...you said choice right. When I said some women are CHOOSING to not marry men that are too insecure to handle their education and success...you took issue. I never said that women who find themselves needing a Plan B are free from accountabilty.
What I wanted to know, which is the REAL issue....that you did not answer is:
WHY have and do women feel the need to take such precautions??
Don't worry...I'll wait.... |
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Jul 13, 2008 20:25:43 GMT -5
<---= rips the sleeves off of Pikas Shirt
<---= talking like Pika ain't in the room cause she ain't saying nuffin'
<---= drops his hat and coat on her on his way into room [/color] <~~Wonders why Damie is trying to undress me & we're no longer together Juicy won't appreciate that. DAMIE...you're gonna have to undress me with you eyes like every other e-man. 
<~~Realizing that Damie only listens to himself.
<~~Not doing Damies laundry anymore, but hold habits die hard....off to the Salvation Army I go. |
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Post by THE emPRISS on Jul 13, 2008 21:08:37 GMT -5
I havent read it all....admittedly....but where is the 'Black educated women are intimidating..." spiel coming from? I think a dude brought that up...whether it's true or not is irrelevant.
As for going into a marriage thinking it will fail, I dont think people think like that (generally)...in any relationship, married or otherwise, its generally "ish is sweet until it aint" and that when people start seriously thinking about alternatives and Plan Bs.
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Jul 13, 2008 21:19:16 GMT -5
Priss, I brought it up b/c it's cited as as one of the reason Black college educated women aren't marrying.
Thus the majority of women that are getting married have not executed Plan A and are having to resort to completing an education as Plan B, while they're married.
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Post by huey on Jul 13, 2008 21:24:41 GMT -5
I havent read it all....admittedly....but where is the 'Black educated women are intimidating..." spiel coming from? I think a dude brought that up...whether it's true or not is irrelevant. As for going into a marriage thinking it will fail, I dont think people think like that (generally)...in any relationship, married or otherwise, its generally "ish is sweet until it aint" and that when people start seriously thinking about alternatives and Plan Bs. I love educated black women. Especially ones that know more than mean or about things i don't know about. I'm like tell me everything you know. No,no, your not talking too much. Your amazing. |
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Post by Highly Favored on Jul 13, 2008 21:49:26 GMT -5
I tend to agree with Cam and Search (for the most part with this one). Am I weary of marriage? Yup. Why? Because I have seen very few examples of successful ones. However, the day that 'Diva decides to walk down the aisle, it MUST be with the intent that I am going to give it all I've got. If I am about to get married and am worried about divorce ad nauseum, I need to call the shindig off...for real. When or rather if I walk down the aisle I need me and the man to not even be considering divorce as an out. Could something still go wrong? Absolutely. But then I still have my education, my ambition, my support base, and my ability to simply exist on my own. Like the men have said, that is not and should not be my feminist Plan B. That is Plan A. It is simply how 'Diva rolls.
Perhaps women (and men alike) need to stop going into marriage thinking that love and sex will pay the bills. You still need education, and an overall sense of self no matter how wonderful your boo is.Committment is number 1, then maybe love. If you are in love, but commitment scares the be-Jesus out of you, then remain single...marriage ain't for everybody and some days I really believe it's not for me. Exactly how I feel and have attempted to convey. |
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Post by THE emPRISS on Jul 14, 2008 9:05:13 GMT -5
Priss, I brought it up b/c it's cited as as one of the reason Black college educated women aren't marrying. Thus the majority of women that are getting married have not executed Plan A and are having to resort to completing an education as Plan B, while they're married. Hmmm... I dont know if that's the reason women arent marrying...I mean, I know "they" say that but Im inclined to believe that its less about intimidation and the idea of what a marriage is supposed to be and what a certain type woman can or will be willing to provide. |
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Post by 123Diva on Jul 14, 2008 9:44:46 GMT -5
Everytime I see this thread title, i think of Emergency contraception.
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Post by Search1906 on Jul 14, 2008 10:09:54 GMT -5
Actually Priss it wasn't subliminally to you...I was talking to anyone who was saying they needed a plan B. I actually "stole" your line about a plan b, c, etc....I'm sure you want me to pay what I owe huh? Bill me. LOL But I stand by what I said only because I think people get married these days without doing their due dilligence in getting to know the people they marry and preparing for all that being married entails. They don't have discussions about how things will be handle, don't foster good communication and then once married and things go wrong they are quick to divorce instead of working things out. Contingency/Marriage Exit planning is not a good look in my book because it gives you an out or escape clause that you can use as a crutch. My advice is if you feel you need a Plan B and C then you probably aren't ready and don't need to try to get married. My wife and I approached marriage saying that divorce was not and option. We merged our finances and our lives. If you can't trust folks with your money you really don't trust them. Having joint accounts allows us to foster oneness and makes us talk and hold each other accountable. In short seperate stuff breeds seperate lives and basically divides your household even if you don't realize it. Biblically its says two come together to be one flesh and that is how God sees you as one so why not act like it. I think the mistake women make is like Cam says they don't get involved and don't know about the accounts, how bills are paid, the balances on the savings, checking, insurance amounts. Hell divorce is not the only thing that could leave you in a lurch what if your SO dies or goes to jail then you need to know how to keep things up and running. Plan A coming together as a couple to makes sure you don't need a Plan B or C. If you have and alternate plan then you are planning for your marriage to fail so save yourself and someone else all the time, money and heartache...stay single. Im assuming this is subliminally in response to me since Im the only one who said Plan B or C....and like I said, it applies to ALL aspects of life NOT just relationships. And I disagree that having an alternative "IF" (not when) something goes awry is not equal to ASSUMING it will fail. ANd who said that it had to be due to a bad relationship? OTHER things happen in relationships like DEATH, BANKRUPTCY, etc etc etc....esp, if something happens, saaaaay, an illness where one or both of you cant work or something happens where your joint accounts a subject to seizuree..it would be SMART to have separate accounts that cant be reached so you can continue to survive. Its not just about divorce, other things happen too. See it every day re: bankruptcy and foreclosures. It's your opinion that separate things breed separate lives. I know plenty of couples who have both joint and separate accounts and it works out just fine. My parents have been married for over 20 years...and thats how they do it. How a household manages its finances is not subject to a single rule or formula. Besides, I dont want my husband buying me gifts (and vice versa) from a joint account Its not so black and white. I love how people jump to suggesting other folks to stay single based just because they have a different opinion on how to lead THEIR lives...smh |
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Post by THE emPRISS on Jul 14, 2008 10:16:40 GMT -5
Hmmm....Search, I can agree with that. One of my boys and I had a discussion where he was telling me about his friend who is engaged to this dude....well, dude JUST found out that she doesnt want to have any more children (she has one, he has none).....HTH do you get ENGAGED without knowing something as elementary as whether your fiancee wishes to procreate with you?!?! Geesh!! I suppose Im naive to think that that's usually an important area of discussion. So with that, I guess yall are right b.c if folks arent even discussing something that obvious, Im sure they are missing the less obvious issues.  |
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Post by Search1906 on Jul 14, 2008 10:23:34 GMT -5
Yeah it bananas Priss. Marriage is hard work but rewarding but I think folks want the reward without putting in the work and when they see it can't happen like that they bail. Oh yeah and you can slide the pics from Friday my way whenever you get a chance. LOL |
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Now, you'll either be a witness or the defendent...but I plans to get my money... 
