S.C. Democratic Debate

[Gee-Are]

They are getting Crunk-a-Lunk on CNN!

[Gee-Are]

Anyone have thoughts? Did they watch?

[DamieQue™]

Saw the aftermath... I'm becoming less and less neutral on Hillary and soon I'm actually going to dislike her.

I know the Republicans have been giving her a hard time since 1992 so I always routed for her, but now she's proving alot of what they said about her right. She'll do anything and use anybody to get elected. I'm magnificently unimpressed with it all.

[Gee-Are]

I feel like everyone's playing the waiting game for the other's money to run out, and they haven't put themselves out there on any issues and win by default.

I was quite disappointed in the bickering. they spend all week in the press squabbling about race and everything else then get to the debates and say they want to put it behind them...SMH

I'm glad that someone advised Obama to leave it alone, because it only makes people identify him as the "black" candidate. I can see them at home now saying, "I can't vote for him because everyday at work for 4 years I'll have to hear, 'They're just picking on him because he's black.'" Whether it's true or not.

I didn't appreciate the dredging up of past actions that had nothing to do with policies on either side. Edwards may have actually escaped with a boost in popular opinion.

One question that pissed me off was, "If Dr. King were alive today, why would he endorse you?" WTH? we're playing extreme hypotheticals in the debate now? They might as well have asked..."Why does Jesus think you're the best candidate? And what passage did Muhammed write about you in the Koran? GTFOOH

[DamieQue™]

Agreed Ghost. Why is it that Obama isn't making race an issue, while everyone else IS making it an issue (including the media)?

[Gee-Are]

Dang I'm tired of hearing the pundits say, "They're fighting for the black vote...It's about race!" then in the same breath say,"people are tired of hearing about the race argument."

WHAAA?

[DamieQue™]

Playing right into Clinton's hands...

...as long as the election is about race, Obama is going to have problems. Hillary can k!ss my a$$ from here on out talking about vast conspiracies against her. She uses the same tactics.

[Bigs]

I'm with you Damie.... I've always felt a certain way about Hillary especially because of the way the Republicans have attacked her for so long. But as this campaign drags on, I've gone from somewhat supporting her, to almost downright dislike. I've also grown tired of hearing about Bill "The First Black President".....

[DamieQue™]

I'm with you dude. They are pandering in a ridiculously obvious way. Who is Hillary gonna pair up with next? She gon' get Buffie the Body to endorse her?

[Gee-Are]

@bigs - another question I can't believe they asked Obama, "Was Bill Clinton really the first black president?"


SMH

[msurbana]

Neither Hillary or Obama will be in the white house.

I hate to be the voice of negativity. So this is all becoming quite entertaining to me.

Personally, I saw their shouting match---and I actually gave Hillary a Kudos for her comeback when Obama gave his little : I was in the streets when you were working for a majoy law firm gig(or something close to that)...womp womp.

[Southie]

I know the Republicans are laughing, because slowly they are looking more level headed, less about bickering, and making the right moves.

[FULLOFME]

I cringed when Obama was "quoting" a statement from Hillary and when she said she didn't say it, he said "your husband did"...oh I wish he would have come up with something else or get that moment back...he still has my support...Michelle for First Lady

[BrnSuga]

Honestly, the debate last night made John Edwards more appealing to me. He appeared to be the most level-headed candidate.

DISCLAIMER: I really feel like John Edwards shouldn't be running for president. His wife has terminal cancer. He should be spending all of his time with her and their family. That's just me.

[Sapphire]

I didn't see it, but have seen some of the coverage and fall out. Sounds like it was a lot of childish back and forth. John Edwards stood out for being mature. I find it unfortunate that he doesn't get any coverage... then again, I think its jacked up that unless you're a republican or a democratic candidate you don't get any publicity at all. I would love to see a debate with a democrate, republican, green, libertarian, etc. one day.

I think it's funny every candidate made sure they were doing something MLK related yesterday. It seemed so insincere and just politics.

[DamieQue™]

sapphire said:

I didn't see it, but have seen some of the coverage and fall out. Sounds like it was a lot of childish back and forth. John Edwards stood out for being mature. I find it unfortunate that he doesn't get any coverage... then again, I think its jacked up that unless you're a republican or a democratic candidate you don't get any publicity at all. I would love to see a debate with a democrate, republican, green, libertarian, etc. one day.

I think it's funny every candidate made sure they were doing something MLK related yesterday. It seemed so insincere and just politics.

If political parties were people, Liberterians would be the crazed 5 armed and 4 legged drooling offspring of parents who were actually brother and sister. If you ever look closely at their ideas, they make Republicans seem like left wing liberals. Most true gun nuts and militia enthusiasts (IMO) come from here more than anyone else.

[Champs Elysees]

I just hope we get a president who wants Federal regulations put on big business.

We need jobs.

[DamieQue™]

Federal Regulations
Big Oil

Yeah... that's a war waiting to happen

[Sapphire]

LOL. I actually didn't know what the Libertarians believe in/promote. I just think the opportunity to reach the public and be judged as a candidate should be equal with all parties.

[Search1906]

Not being standoffish but I want to ask those who are definitely voting for Obama what makes him the better candidate? I am still on the fence on who I am casting my vote for. I keep hearing that Black folk have a slave mentality and will act like sheep and vote for Clinton but I am equally bothered by the notion that I should vote for Obama because he's a brotha without checking dude out. I really want to hear why he voted present on over 100 votes in the illinois state senate. I want to know about the dealings with the shady land developer who helped him get his current crib. I want a more concrete answer on his health plan and how he plans to further his agenda with a virtually gridlocked congress. I am looking at Clinton and Edwards the same way. Am I a bit biased and leaning toward him because of who he is and what he represents yes and I do so unapologetically but I still need to check this cat out. Please all the gungho people fill me in because I want to be on board but I'm not there yet.

What can anyone offer and I am not talking superficial answers like I feel I can trust him, he has a nice/genuine smile, he has a black wife or his speeches are great. I need cold hard facts.

[Gee-Are]

@mclovin, that's gonna be tough for a lot of people. I only say that because the nature of the presidential race, especially at this stage, doesn't really allow for those questions to be answered. Basically, because most people don't care about that in all honesty. It truly is a popularity contest.

As for the charges levied against him by other candidates...don't think that they ALL don't have something they don't want said. Also, how I heard the "present" votes explained away, not by him, is that a lot of people vote present when the law looks like it's going to pass anyway. It can also be viewed as a silent protest of the issue while believing in the true nature of the law.

*Bold Proclamation*

If Obama was a resident of OO - he'd probably have a karma of 1 and somebody would repeat every post he said and get the attaboys he deserved.

^^^^my opinion FWIW


>>>>has not officially endorsed any candidate yet.

[Champs Elysees]

Search, I admire the way you are looking at the candidates.

Honestly, I'm rooting for Obama because he has gotten regular people concerned about the health of this country like I've never seen. That energized me.

I didn't think he had a snowball's chance in Hell, but after I saw what happened in Iowa and the turns that the Clinton campaign have taken, I have become a bonafide believer.

Also, his campaign is funded by us--the people who he'd work for as President-- not lobbyists and PACs (who are supporting the other candidates on both sides), that's one of the main reasons I began paying attention to him. We support him financially in his pursuit, so theoretically, he will be solely accountable to us, the people.

I am also drawn to him because he came from Harvard Law school and worked in the trenches with the people.

Honestly, I look at Obama as being the lesser of two evils between he and Clinton. And I do like Edwards. They all have some unsavory characters and votes in their pasts. To me, Obama's being a brother makes him the better choice for me.

[Sapphire]

I haven't decided who I'm running for yet. I guess I'll have to decide before the primary. Honestly I had hoped that Gore would run again. But since he didn't it will be between Obama and Edwards. I find it unfortunate that Edwards isn't covered in the media at all. I think he was going to drop out soon, but received encouraging words and asked to keep going.

Anyway, I'll have to take a hard look at all of them and decide. Both a Black or female president would be historic. I just want the best president.

[msurbana]

I am personally not interested in our next president making history by being a first in sex or race soley. I would like the next president to make history, primarily, by addressing key issues and providing the legislature to back up their stances. Wishful thinking maybe, but that is my position.

My key concerns are the implementation of better social service programs, affordable and reasonable health care coverage, and saving education from the snares of privatization .

It is very hard for me to decide at this point who would be the best candidate for my needs and the needs of the majority of Americans in general.
However, Hillary has currently caught my eye.


I'll buy Obama's book in efforts to support a black man---not(ATTEMPT) to put him in the white house solely because he's half black. As of now I see nothing extremely impressive from him, but he does have some platforms in which I agree. I am concerned he doesn't seem to have extensive experience in politics.

[DamieQue™]

I like Obama for a number of reason

1. Unlike Bush before him and Clinton now, it doesn't appear that his pursuit of the presidency is rooted in some belief that he has a birthright to it. That his family name entitles him or compels him to be a part of a dynasty.

2. He doesn't appear to be concerned about making history, he seems genuinely more focused on making the country better.

3. Dammit black men could use the image boost.

4. America could use the image boost around the world. Obama is stately and polished and I believe initially he will be FAR more readily accepted than Clinton or any of the bible beating Republicans.

5. He is a black man, married to a black woman, with what appears to be a loving family and I would LOVE for America and the world to be inundated with positive black images.

6. Part of the problem with politics now is the pedaling of power. And alot of that comes from where you get your campaign contributions. Obama's contributions come largely from individual donors, not Political Action Committees, Corporate Fat Kats, and lobbyist. He's not just saying he's about change... he's actually demonstrating it. Who else is doing this?

7. I have read the accounts of people who lived during the eras of Jack Johnson, Jessie Owens, Jackie Robinson, who remember the legacy of the Tuskegee Airmen, and Texas Western. These, my friends, are watershed moments. They don't come often and they rarely come cheaply - we shouldn't be cavalier about it. You do not often have a chance to change the way people think on such a massive scale.

8. I have seen enough politics to know that no matter what candidate eventually wins, none of them have a magic wand they can pull out and fix the world. Neither Hillary or Obama is going to settle the debate on Roe v. Wade. What they say right now is almost irrelevant, because what they'd like to do in a perfect world, is almost CERTAINLY different than what they'll be able to do in the real world. The best you can do is like their philosophy and very little of that is being debated or talked about right now.

9. I despise Guliani (based on his record as Mayor of New York) I am uncomfortable with Romney's religious affiliation, I am deeply disappointed in how McCain fell into line with George Bush Pep Rally during his two terms instead of staying true to his maverick image, Ron Paul is a racists Libertaran masquerading as a Republican, and I honestly do not respect Clinton as much as I once had. The candidates that I like thus far are Obama, Edwards, and Huckabee. I might squeeze McCain in there, but that's the order that I like them. They all have independent appeal, and could probably govern well from the center. All things equal I'll take Obama.

10. The lack of experience question is a red herring. The only way to get experience as a President is to become President. That's why all Presidents have advisers and counsels (the best in the world) to give their expert opinion. The President is the CEO of the country. He implements his/her philosophy of governance (foreign and domestic) and manages the country. You don't need more experience for that then he's already had. Just need intelligence, and smart competent people around you to keep you well informed/advised.

[konfucius1911]

southside35 said:

I know the Republicans are laughing, because slowly they are looking more level headed, less about bickering, and making the right moves.

I concur with your assertion. This is EXACTLY what I suggested to my colleagues (and students) at the university more than two years ago.

Not being a Conspiracy-theorist, but ...

I would not doubt that the campaign staff of the potential candidates representing the REPUBLICAN party have/are actually the SOURCE of the information utilized for mud-slinging among the OBAMA and CLINTON camps.

Thereby, while these two camps are bickering, it merely SPLITS the votes of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY - much like the past effects of Green-Party candidate RALPH NADER in years past - and essentially strengthens the potential election of a REPUBLICAN candidate by default.

[konfucius1911]

damieque said:

I In the interest of space, Please consult DamieQue's original posting above

With that being stated, ...

For the past decade or so, I have believed that certain key-elements are commonly overlooked by the America's potential & active voting constituents; especially amng African-American.

Although I am sure many of you will (possibly) disagree with my analysis/assessment of the US political environment, please allow me the opportunity to state the following:

Prior to the recent Iowa Preliminaries, I believed that "the United States of America is neither ready, nor even WILLING to accept an African-American male as President [Commander-in-Chief] of this country."

It has been my personal observation that - despite the disillusioned concept of many working-aged African-Americans in the USA that "we HAVE overcome." - this country is STILL very divided politically by racial polarization (and/or deprivation).

Many of my Black and non-Black colleagues have argued with me that this country IS willing to elect (and support) an African-American President. I strongly disagree; and these are my reasons:

(1) Many have argued that the PROOF this country IS willing to elect (and support) and African-American President is because the country has "allowed" Black men - such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton - to enter the presidential race in past years.

=======================

MY RESPONSE: The fact that they characterized the candidacy of either of the aforementioned men as an "allowance" [or, I dare say, "a permission"] to enter the race speaks volumes.

Additionally, no American [Black or White] desires to be addressed from the White House [in the "State of the Union Address"] in a sermon-like manner of a hem-hawing and hanting 'Reverend'.

Thus the reason (although I respect him for his Civil activism history), Jesse Jackson was NEVER (in my eyes) seen as a viable candidate; and/or threat against his opponents.

Doubly so, this also stands true for Al Sharpton ; and NO ONE (Black or White) is seriously about to allow a TCB-permed Black man to be the international representative and 'face' of this nation to foreign diplomats.

HELL NO !!

[konfucius1911]

msurbana said:

Neither Hillary or Obama will be in the white house.

From a former-military personnel point of view,...

Female candidates - such as Hillary Rodham-Clinton - have not (in the past) been seen as true "competition" because, no seasoned military personnel desires to have a woman [who will potentially think with her heart, as opposed to, the military corrective-soundness of her head] as "Commander-in-Chief"; especially not during an international crisis [e.g. Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, et al].

REASON FOR THIS ASSERTION:

Although the US Capitalist System hypocritically purports that "...all men (and women) are equal ...", this country has repeatedly interfered in the political processes of other developing countries and assisted in the placement of a woman as "President", "Prime Minister", et cetera for the sole purpose of causing socio-political strife within the countries; and possibly domestic instability. Thereafter, the USA swoops in as the pseudo-Savior on a white horse which THEN works to effectively displace the female-leader; and usurp the country of their rights, dignity, and natural resources. EXAMPLE: Benazir Bhuto of Pakistan.

Some have argued that because BARACK OBAMA does not have the political background and baggage of having participated in the US Civil Rights Movement(s), he will possibly gain many of the votes of liberal (non-Black) Americans.

However, I must state: "For that SAME reason, he will LOSE many of the votes of politically-mind BLACKS that participated and/or lived through that Era."

It is for the aforementioned reasons that I believe the conservative Republican-party covertly advocates support & promotion of ENDLESS BICKERING between the leading Democratic candidates. The contention and confusion among the Democratic Party will only serve to DIVIDE the votes; and a Republican-candidate [regardless of WHO he is] will ultimately be in the White House.

[konfucius1911]

msurbana said:

I'll buy Obama's book in efforts to support a black man---not (ATTEMPT) to put him in the white house solely because he's half black. As of now I see nothing extremely impressive from him, but he does have some platforms in which I agree. I am concerned he doesn't seem to have extensive experience in politics.

It has LONG been my belief that IF this country was to have ever elected an African-American president (in the past 2 decades), it would have been GENERAL COLIN POWELL.

As a moderate/LIBERAL, African-American Republican (who supports the establishment of quality-based, effective and economically-feasible NATIONAL HEALTH*CARE (partially funded by the government) for the disenfranchised and elderly populations in the US); former General in the United States Army; National Security Advisor (1987-1989) and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (1989-1993) - he would have gained (and maintained) the votes of many the Republican populations, the African-American votes (and other ethnic groups classified in the USA as "minorities"), the military votes/support, the Senior Citizen votes; and not to mention the Pro-Life/Pro-Choice and/or same-sex loving populations.

However, I am almost POSITIVE that when the conceptual-thought of his potential candidacy was the "BUZZ-word" in years past, some members of the political "powers that BE" in this country approached him an said, ...

"Look here, N1g93r. You have had an exceptional career for any man; but especially a BLACK man. So, how about you simply accept this offer of $40 million; and you (and your family) go away and LIVE out your retirement." [Emphasis on the word "LIVE"].

==========================

Additionally, General Powell was/is no political dummy. He diplomatically opposed the invasion of Iraq based upon reports of "Weapons of Mass Destruction [WMD]"; uttered openly to the American people in fallacious statements that most accurately could be described as "Words of Mass Deception".

He - most likely - realized that had he been elected and served in the presidency through this current quagmire, the failures of the US regime to alter the thinking and political systems of the areas they have invaded, as well as, stabilize the insurgency-issue would have been used as an on-going indictment against ALL subsequent Black candidates seeking to attain the position of US President.

So, he wisely never announced his candidacy; not to mention that he realized that he might not LIVE out his term of office.

I am sure that some will offer other myopic-views; many of which I can (potentially) appreciate. This is merely MY partial assessment of the hypocrital dichotomy of the American political system.

What say you ??

[Champs Elysees]

Damie, I soooooo feel you on your sentimental reasons for supporting Obama's candidacy! We so need to see a BLACK family doing the damn thing. I also think that because of increased globilization, we need to have a brown face at the top.

I am also of the school of thought that the only preperation for the job as President is being a President. All the candidate needs is a sound mind and the ability to put the right people in the right places. Look at who Bush placed on his cabinet and he ain't no genius. Before he was elected ge was a governor who had little national political experience.

President Clinton was also a governor with little national political experience (if I'm not mistaken).

We also have to remember to keep our state, local and national congressional elections in mind. The decisions of these people directly affect our lives more than those of the President.

Konfucious, you have just been exhalted, my man! You really dropped some knowledge!