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Post by T-Rex91 on May 12, 2010 9:47:44 GMT -5
I think of this question everytime I read about a hazing incident. Were they? Do any of us actually believe that the talented tenth were running engaged in physical and mental hazing back in the early 1900's? I think not. If we are aspiring to all that they created, how have we now decided that whatever threshhold they created is now not sufficient? I'm just asking.
I'm not going to hijack my own thread in the first post and go off on my usual rant about the lack of exclusivity and selectivity in the current processes but I'm standing at the fork in the road contemplating a hard right.
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Post by T-Rex91 on May 12, 2010 9:51:40 GMT -5
Bottom line, the founders found a way to create bonds and commitment themselves to a common goal that didn't involve most of the shenanigans that keep our orgs in trouble. I wholeheartedly believe that. Until we rediscover the value in each other that they saw and find the unity of effort that birthed each of our orgs, we are lost.
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Post by LejaOMG on May 12, 2010 9:56:31 GMT -5
Do any of us actually believe that the talented tenth were running engaged in physical and mental hazing back in the early 1900's? yes. and much earlier than that too. |
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Post by Bathroom Model on May 12, 2010 10:01:53 GMT -5
well back in those days couldn't you pretty much hang a black person in the middle of town and get away with it?
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Post by Blu on May 12, 2010 10:09:49 GMT -5
Do any of us actually believe that the talented tenth were running engaged in physical and mental hazing back in the early 1900's? yes. and much earlier than that too. Yeah, I've read enough of my frat's history to know some things were going on at the beginning. |
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Post by LejaOMG on May 12, 2010 10:34:22 GMT -5
I see 91's point in this thread, but I be LOL when folks act like pledging/hazing just came out in the 40s.
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Post by Iceman on May 12, 2010 10:37:13 GMT -5
Only one of our founders was initiated. The others had no need to be. They had the foresight and wherewithal to create and develop what we still have over a century later – at a predominately white, Ivy league school in the middle of a racially hostile climate and environment.
And yes, stuff went on in the early 1900’s.
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Post by T-Rex91 on May 12, 2010 10:38:59 GMT -5
Same stuff? I'm not implying that they created a handshake and exchanged pins and that was that but would the same standards of "made" apply if those first lines showed up today?
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Post by Blu on May 12, 2010 10:43:14 GMT -5
Yeah, I doubt it was the same stuff. I agree things have gotten out of hand and I don't believe the Founders intended on it going to this level.. It's funny because I always hear worse stories from Frat who pledged during the 80's than what I read in these current Hazing Lawsuits..
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Post by bigsisteronpoint on May 12, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
I actually heard a presentation that Dr. Walter Kimbrough (an Alpha) gave on basically the evolution of hazing of what we know today. He basically traced its origin back to the 1800s at colleges when freshmen were starting school and the upperclassmen would do things to make them worthy, etc. So I would say that some kind of "hazing" did occur back when the Divine 9 orgs were being founded because the founders more than likely prescribed to some form of a belief of making new members worthy of joining the org.
HOWEVER, they weren't hitting folks with skillets and shit lol.
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Post by bigsisteronpoint on May 12, 2010 11:59:53 GMT -5
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Post by nsync on May 12, 2010 12:26:29 GMT -5
Nothing's new under the sun.
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Post by ReignMan19 on May 12, 2010 14:00:49 GMT -5
I actually heard a presentation that Dr. Walter Kimbrough (an Alpha) gave on basically the evolution of hazing of what we know today. He basically traced its origin back to the 1800s at colleges when freshmen were starting school and the upperclassmen would do things to make them worthy, etc. So I would say that some kind of "hazing" did occur back when the Divine 9 orgs were being founded because the founders more than likely prescribed to some form of a belief of making new members worthy of joining the org. HOWEVER, they weren't hitting folks with skillets and shit lol. Yeah I just wanted to chime in on this ... At Howard and Morhouse (and I'm sure other schools but these specifically) had freshmen rituals that had what could be considered hazing. |
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Post by Catch-A-KAse on May 12, 2010 14:14:55 GMT -5
I don't think they dealt with anything near the same foolishness the UG's are doing today, but I feel they were hazed by society. Racial discrimination, sexism, economic oppression..... Personally, some of the stuff they dealt with sounds far worse than being on line for 8 weeks.
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Post by Bunny Hop on May 12, 2010 16:22:36 GMT -5
According to a random idiot that I went to undergrad with yall were practically founded on hazing (or something equally dumb).
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Post by missb08 on May 12, 2010 18:25:52 GMT -5
I don't think they dealt with anything near the same foolishness the UG's are doing today, but I feel they were hazed by society. Racial discrimination, sexism, economic oppression..... Personally, some of the stuff they dealt with sounds far worse than being on line for 8 weeks. Yeah, what she said *waves to Patience* Hey GUUUUURRRL! |
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Post by goldmind1922 on May 13, 2010 2:58:45 GMT -5
I don't think they dealt with anything near the same foolishness the UG's are doing today, but I feel they were hazed by society. Racial discrimination, sexism, economic oppression..... Personally, some of the stuff they dealt with sounds far worse than being on line for 8 weeks. Do you think organizational hazing exists to make up for societal hazing? |
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Post by Troopa1911 on May 13, 2010 8:00:36 GMT -5
Do any of us actually believe that the talented tenth were running engaged in physical and mental hazing back in the early 1900's?
Yep!...In many cases they were mimicking the white fraternities. Only three of us were founded at White universities so...
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Post by Southie on May 13, 2010 8:39:11 GMT -5
Do any of us actually believe that the talented tenth were running engaged in physical and mental hazing back in the early 1900's?
Yes
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G Money$CMB$
OOA neo
?It's not the load that breaks you down, it's the way you carry it.?
Posts: 264
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Post by G Money$CMB$ on May 13, 2010 9:51:00 GMT -5
Do any of us actually believe that the talented tenth were running engaged in physical and mental hazing back in the early 1900's?
Pardon me for being naive, but I just don't see the talented tenth throwing piping hot tollhouse cookies on each other, throwing rocks at each other or inflicting serious pain on their brothers/sisters. Mind games- possibly but not to the point where folks want to committ suicide or slit their wrists after a set...
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Post by Troopa1911 on May 13, 2010 10:32:08 GMT -5
Do any of us actually believe that the talented tenth were running engaged in physical and mental hazing back in the early 1900's? Pardon me for being naive, but I just don't see the talented tenth throwing piping hot tollhouse cookies on each other, throwing rocks at each other or inflicting serious pain on their brothers/sisters. Mind games- possibly but not to the point where folks want to committ suicide or slit their wrists after a set... |
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Post by Southie on May 13, 2010 10:36:23 GMT -5
Do any of us actually believe that the talented tenth were running engaged in physical and mental hazing back in the early 1900's? Pardon me for being naive, but I just don't see the talented tenth throwing piping hot tollhouse cookies on each other, throwing rocks at each other or inflicting serious pain on their brothers/sisters. Mind games- possibly but not to the point where folks want to committ suicide or slit their wrists after a set... Maybe (and I do mean maybe) not some of the ridiculous behavior that goes on today... |
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Post by Julie Art on May 13, 2010 10:47:37 GMT -5
I think of this question everytime I read about a hazing incident. Were they? Do any of us actually believe that the talented tenth were running engaged in physical and mental hazing back in the early 1900's? I think not. If we are aspiring to all that they created, how have we now decided that whatever threshhold they created is now not sufficient? I'm just asking. I'm not going to hijack my own thread in the first post and go off on my usual rant about the lack of exclusivity and selectivity in the current processes but I'm standing at the fork in the road contemplating a hard right. Oh, they experienced hazing just like every other black person in America. It just had another name, Racism, Jim Crow, etc. |
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Post by Julie Art on May 13, 2010 10:49:47 GMT -5
I actually heard a presentation that Dr. Walter Kimbrough (an Alpha) gave on basically the evolution of hazing of what we know today. He basically traced its origin back to the 1800s at colleges when freshmen were starting school and the upperclassmen would do things to make them worthy, etc. So I would say that some kind of "hazing" did occur back when the Divine 9 orgs were being founded because the founders more than likely prescribed to some form of a belief of making new members worthy of joining the org. HOWEVER, they weren't hitting folks with skillets and shit lol. Yeah I just wanted to chime in on this ... At Howard and Morhouse (and I'm sure other schools but these specifically) had freshmen rituals that had what could be considered hazing. My parents concur to this. They went to an HBCU in the 60's and the freshmen got it. Had names for them and everything, lol! |
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Post by Cambist on May 13, 2010 10:58:25 GMT -5
My mom said the same thing. Freshmen had to wear beanies and sing the Alma Mater on demand.
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Post by Kyng of JDs on May 13, 2010 11:09:04 GMT -5
....and know the history of the school's founding....
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on May 13, 2010 19:53:21 GMT -5
Yes, the founders were paper.
Honestly, I do not think our Founders would be too pleased with today's neophytes. Many new members barely meet the GPA guidelines, and most of the founders were scholars.
I could just imagine some young brother trying to press up a founder:
Founder: How are you?
Young Frat: I'm aight. Whatchu know bout the frat?
Founder: Well, I founded this illustrious organization. What would you like to know?
YF: So you ain't even pledge. You need to get in the cut.
Founder: Excuse me? I think you need to learn some respect. Are you even a financial member?
YF: I'm made, nigga. That's all that counts. Now what's up on taking this wood?
Older Brother: Young bro, you are out of line. Let me holler at you.
YF: Man, I'm bout to go hit these trees and get on these hoes.
This is why undergrad will soon be a thing of the past.
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Post by peppermint on May 13, 2010 21:16:07 GMT -5
It's funny how everything is blamed on ugrads when they are overseen and taught (or should be away) by graduate members.
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Post by perroloco on May 14, 2010 12:13:37 GMT -5
I think of this question everytime I read about a hazing incident. Were they? Do any of us actually believe that the talented tenth were running engaged in physical and mental hazing back in the early 1900's? I think not. If we are aspiring to all that they created, how have we now decided that whatever threshhold they created is now not sufficient? I'm just asking. . I don't know if our Founders were against "pledging" since most of them lived to see hazing become endemic and systematic in our orgs. of course not to the point where it is now. One of our founders was the chairperson of the membership committee until his passing. He wrote the plegde manual. If he thought that pledging was insignificant, he most certainly would have abolished it prior to his death. We all agree that "hazing" is detrimental to our finances and even continued existence. But I will guarantee you that there is nothing that is happening now, that did not take place on some level between 1911 and 1973. Just a taste from some talented tenth and civil rights heroes: If you read the biographies of Thurgood Marshall and Langston Hughes, both tell lengthy stories of their hazing experiences while at Lincoln University in the 1920's. I have been fortunate enough to know fellow fraternity members who not only met the Founders, but were pledged by some. Read the biographies of MLK or Vernon Jordan. Each could tell of personal pledging/hazing experiences that would warrant a lawsuit, expulsion, or suspension in the 2000's. Aint nothing differnt other than litigation. I personally spoke with Jesse Jackson in the Feb of 1998. If you want to hear some stuff, listen to him talk about being a Bruh at NC A&T in the early '60's. Sit and talk with Minister Louis Farakhan and ask him why he dropped line and you will hear about the same hazing that goes on today. Aint nothing different but perspective and litigation. |
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Post by Troopa1911 on May 14, 2010 12:25:02 GMT -5
LOL
I wish a n----a would challenge Diggs, Armstong, Lee, Blakemore, Asher, Alexander, Grant, Irvin, Caine, or Edmonds. There would be someone stupid enuff to do it.
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