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Post by Julie Art on Apr 29, 2010 18:51:58 GMT -5
Lol @ Leja! Notice I said if you never pursued while in ug and the chapter was active with lines while you were there. NEVER showed any interest until they graduated. I am looking at you side ways for a longgg time.
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on Apr 29, 2010 19:53:19 GMT -5
I will keep it real:
There is a difference between pledging and hazing. Hopefully Fraternities and Sororities will learn the difference so this MIP bull**** can die.
The whole mindset is stupid these days. It is either get beat senseless for weeks on end to learn some poems and history or write a check and learn nothing. It really doesn't make sense because the real info about the organization is learned AFTER one crosses.
I honestly think that there needs to be a nationally-endorsed pledge program with all of the poems and information available to those who want to join. Why in the world should someone have to get beat to learn information that one can get from the Internet if told about it? Anybody can Google "Invictus" and learn it in about an hour.
BGLOs just need to form a structured and uniform program for ALL people who want to join, whether undergrad or grad. This would eliminate a great deal of the paper vs. pledge debate.
If a real pledge program was formed, potential members would know enough to not be harassed by 'made' members so much. This way, there would be less of a divide.
Also, if a chapter was found guilty of hazing, all active members would be kicked out of the organization and the charter for the chapter would be terminated. Beating someone would not really be such a bright idea then.
Anyway, have fun.
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Post by frozenmenace on Apr 29, 2010 21:00:18 GMT -5
Everybody has the same story (oh, there was a situation/family emergency/money issue in college that prevented me from pledging). I never ask anymore. I only have a problem when grads initiatives take it upon themselves to explain why they're grad. If I meet one more person who upon meeting me announces "I'm Chi Zeta Alumnae, but I was real cool with Upsilon Chi back when I was in school, but my mom had got sick and I had to use my intake fees to pay for childcare for my little brother and then I had caught the mumps, then the chapter got suspended and next thing you know I had to go grad" I'm going to scream! Constantly making excuses for yourself shows me that you've bought into your own stigma and that you don't want me to respect you. LOL! That is true Leja. I have people explain to me why they crossed grad not realizing that I crossed grad too. They assume that I crossed undergrad because I have been an ALPHA for so long. At this point, I don't care how a bruh crossed..my first question is "Are you active?" There are some people who just weren't interested in joining a frat/sorority until after they graduated from college. Then there are times when people are interested, but they don't want to be affiliated with the chapter on their yard. The same way a chapter may reject an interest, sometimes an interest rejects that chapter. Interesting, isn't it? |
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Post by Comedy on Apr 29, 2010 21:27:23 GMT -5
I'm impressed and you hit the jackpot! I will keep it real: There is a difference between pledging and hazing. Hopefully Fraternities and Sororities will learn the difference so this MIP bull**** can die. The whole mindset is stupid these days. It is either get beat senseless for weeks on end to learn some poems and history or write a check and learn nothing. It really doesn't make sense because the real info about the organization is learned AFTER one crosses. I honestly think that there needs to be a nationally-endorsed pledge program with all of the poems and information available to those who want to join. Why in the world should someone have to get beat to learn information that one can get from the Internet if told about it? Anybody can Google "Invictus" and learn it in about an hour. BGLOs just need to form a structured and uniform program for ALL people who want to join, whether undergrad or grad. This would eliminate a great deal of the paper vs. pledge debate. If a real pledge program was formed, potential members would know enough to not be harassed by 'made' members so much. This way, there would be less of a divide. Also, if a chapter was found guilty of hazing, all active members would be kicked out of the organization and the charter for the chapter would be terminated. Beating someone would not really be such a bright idea then. Anyway, have fun. |
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Post by 123Diva on Apr 29, 2010 21:39:37 GMT -5
There are some people who just weren't interested in joining a frat/sorority until after they graduated from college.^^^Excellent Point!Then there are times when people are interested, but they don't want to be affiliated with the chapter on their yard. The same way a chapter may reject an interest, sometimes an interest rejects that chapter. Imagine that! Interesting, isn't it? VERY ...Exalt |
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Post by Comedy on Apr 29, 2010 22:07:19 GMT -5
I feel you on the being active part, but sometimes it's best that some people stay inactive. For two years I begged two of my sorority sisters to come back and now I'm kicking my own a$$. I am also to the point were I'm willing to pay half of there internation dues as long as they promise not to represent my organization. Everybody has the same story (oh, there was a situation/family emergency/money issue in college that prevented me from pledging). I never ask anymore. I only have a problem when grads initiatives take it upon themselves to explain why they're grad. If I meet one more person who upon meeting me announces "I'm Chi Zeta Alumnae, but I was real cool with Upsilon Chi back when I was in school, but my mom had got sick and I had to use my intake fees to pay for childcare for my little brother and then I had caught the mumps, then the chapter got suspended and next thing you know I had to go grad" I'm going to scream! Constantly making excuses for yourself shows me that you've bought into your own stigma and that you don't want me to respect you. LOL! That is true Leja. I have people explain to me why they crossed grad not realizing that I crossed grad too. They assume that I crossed undergrad because I have been an ALPHA for so long. At this point, I don't care how a bruh crossed..my first question is "Are you active?" There are some people who just weren't interested in joining a frat/sorority until after they graduated from college. Then there are times when people are interested, but they don't want to be affiliated with the chapter on their yard. The same way a chapter may reject an interest, sometimes an interest rejects that chapter. Interesting, isn't it? |
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Post by Bunny Hop on Apr 30, 2010 8:32:47 GMT -5
a degree!
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Post by Southie on Apr 30, 2010 9:07:56 GMT -5
<<proponent of bringing back a "real" pledge system. <<<not a proponent of this "faux" get down, made,  system. <<nothing wrong with a litte "struggle" to get to the promised land.  |
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Post by urbanfashionista on Apr 30, 2010 9:42:43 GMT -5
I do agree with you Southie
I came in Grad only 2 yrs ago.. Im not ashamed, nor concerned with any labels, I will be 33yrs old next month - a Grown Woman, you can't just step to me any type of way off top.. - However, I will say most of the sorors who I have come across have been nothing but sisterly, if anything I get some that are somewhat embarrased especially when I ask "what chapter are you active in ?" and they say "none"
Many of the young women I came in with were straight out of college and REALLY craved the UG experience, (we were a pretty young as well as a small group by Grad standards ages 21-41) and thats how they "roll" - some even on "charge-up" missions.
I shake my head and laugh.
Im focused on the taking care of the business of AKA and the initiatives we are working on in my chapter, I want to learn and grow in the sorority, because I know there is a LOT to learn once you get in.. but I do know, what I know, what I know about my organization, that alone makes me very comfartable with my status as a graduate initiate.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 30, 2010 9:49:08 GMT -5
I have a cousin who began the application process for a sorority in undergrad.. In the midst of it, her father died. Consequently, she was not able to complete the process. Her only alternative was to cross grad after she graduated. This is understandable.. or any serious type family/personal issue. I know guy who wants to be an Omega who had a similar issue. His mother is still alive, but she got real sick and was in the hospital.. his focus was her and school.. he worked too in order to help pay bills and keep things going while she was sick... this is acceptable! Dang... BUT I know a 94 Bruh whose mom died while he was online. She was sick before he even got down. He went home for a week, went to the funeral and came back like a fuckin animal. Heart broken but still finished his process. I hope he doesn't say that in his interview for the reason and it just so happens that a bruh is sitting across from with him with similar or worse circumstances. |
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Post by Iceman on Apr 30, 2010 9:54:38 GMT -5
Yeah, there are certain issues that sometimes cause a disconnect between younger UG initiated members and older Grad initiated members. Somebody earlier mentioned a love/hate relationship and I’ve seen that on certain occasions. One of the issues being what Julie and others have been mentioning.
If someone was interested in one Org their whole time in college, but the Org was suspended or off the yard, what could they do? If they still desired membership in that Org after graduation, they will seek it out via Grad. It happens. That’s just a matter of circumstance. If that's the reason they give in an interview, hopefully it proves to be true when Bros perform an inquiry on it. I say that because I’ve heard of many grad aspirants that get caught straight up lying on that and basically eliminate themselves.
On that note, it does raise questions as to why someone would go grad right upon graduation when they had a flourishing and active chapter on the yard in undergrad the whole time. No, you can’t pass judgment without knowing all the pertinent details. But it does raise questions. Questions that most interviewing Brothers will likely ask.
But regardless, the chapter you were made at, whether Undergrad or Grad, shouldn’t be an monstrous issue – At the end of the day, it’s still one Fraternity or Sorority. No matter where you were made, having the ability to stand on your own and be a confident member is key either way.
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Post by Julie Art on Apr 30, 2010 9:56:48 GMT -5
<<proponent of bringing back a "real" pledge system. <<<not a proponent of this "faux" get down, made, system. <<nothing wrong with a litte "struggle" to get to the promised land. Exhalt Miss Southie  |
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Post by Iceman on Apr 30, 2010 9:59:34 GMT -5
<<proponent of bringing back a "real" pledge system. <<<not a proponent of this "faux" get down, made, system. <<nothing wrong with a litte "struggle" to get to the promised land. You know I can dig it Southie. “Adversity introduces a man to himself.” |
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Post by Julie Art on Apr 30, 2010 10:01:07 GMT -5
<<proponent of bringing back a "real" pledge system. <<<not a proponent of this "faux" get down, made, system. <<nothing wrong with a litte "struggle" to get to the promised land. You know I can dig it Southie. “Adversity introduces a man to himself.” Or a woman to herself, lol! Sometimes you never know how strong you are until you are faced with some pretty rough situations. |
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Post by Southie on Apr 30, 2010 10:04:50 GMT -5
You know I can dig it Southie. “Adversity introduces a man to himself.” Or a woman to herself, lol! Sometimes you never know how strong you are until you are faced with some pretty rough situations. Now that is speaking the truth! |
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Post by huey on Apr 30, 2010 19:42:17 GMT -5
not answering until people tell em answer to my statute of limitations question
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Post by Elegance1913 on May 1, 2010 14:36:40 GMT -5
There has always been this notion that crossing in a grad chapter is very simple and no work involved (or very limited work). I thought that was true also, however the reality for many if VERY different. Now, I have heard of some really petty situations that prevented some seemingly good candidates from getting selected in the Undergrad chapter. Their are also instances of financial situations. Grades not where they should be... I agree with the bolded. Especially when one is on AND in grad school AND married And has children. Although I came thru as an undergrad, I have a lot of respect for those who are able to juggle all of those responsibilities and be on point during their process. Plus - I think this gives people a chance to see how they are able to handle real life while remaining active. |
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Post by Elegance1913 on May 1, 2010 14:43:36 GMT -5
I can agree to an extent. On the other hand, no one really wants to be viewed as a skater, whore, homosexual or any other chapter ill. I believe if these potential members are pursing in the same area or region the grad chapter will know whether or not the undergraduate chapter is a hot mess. Very true...a friend said if her daughter was to join her org in the undergrad chapter at her school, she would be making license plates for 10 cents a day. |
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Post by Elegance1913 on May 1, 2010 14:46:16 GMT -5
Everybody has the same story (oh, there was a situation/family emergency/money issue in college that prevented me from pledging). I never ask anymore. I only have a problem when grads initiatives take it upon themselves to explain why they're grad. If I meet one more person who upon meeting me announces "I'm Chi Zeta Alumnae, but I was real cool with Upsilon Chi back when I was in school, but my mom had got sick and I had to use my intake fees to pay for childcare for my little brother and then I had caught the mumps, then the chapter got suspended and next thing you know I had to go grad" I'm going to scream! Constantly making excuses for yourself shows me that you've bought into your own stigma and that you don't want me to respect you. LOL! |
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Post by Elegance1913 on May 1, 2010 15:00:59 GMT -5
<<proponent of bringing back a "real" pledge system. <<<not a proponent of this "faux" get down, made, system. <<nothing wrong with a litte "struggle" to get to the promised land. Exactly... |
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Post by huey on May 1, 2010 15:13:18 GMT -5
QUESTION: IF GRAD INTEREST STRAIGHT UP SAID AT INTERVIEW YES THEIR WAS A FLOURISHING UNDERGRAD CHAP AT THEIR SCHOOL BUT IT WAS KNOWN TO PLEDGE/HAZE THEIR LINES AND HE FELT BY ALLOWING HIMSELF TO ATTEMPT TO BE A PART OF A LINE WOULD JEOPARDIZE HIS CHANCES OF BEING A MEMBER, SO WE WANTED TO WAIT TO GRAD. WOULD YOU PENALIZE HIM?
CUZ IF YOUR A GRAD CHAPTER TRYNA DO THINGS RIGHT WAY, WAHT DOES IT REALLY MATTER WHY HE DIDN'T DO UNDERGRAD? WE INITIATED A MEMBER LAST YEAR WHO WAS A QUE INTEREST WHEN HE WAS AN UNDERGRAD. WE GOT JOKES BUT WE REALLY GONNA PENALIZE HIM FOR ALMOST MAKING A MISTAKE 6 YEARS AGO?
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Post by Coldfront06 on May 1, 2010 16:57:53 GMT -5
QUESTION: IF GRAD INTEREST STRAIGHT UP SAID AT INTERVIEW YES THEIR WAS A FLOURISHING UNDERGRAD CHAP AT THEIR SCHOOL BUT IT WAS KNOWN TO PLEDGE/HAZE THEIR LINES AND HE FELT BY ALLOWING HIMSELF TO ATTEMPT TO BE A PART OF A LINE WOULD JEOPARDIZE HIS CHANCES OF BEING A MEMBER, SO WE WANTED TO WAIT TO GRAD. WOULD YOU PENALIZE HIM? CUZ IF YOUR A GRAD CHAPTER TRYNA DO THINGS RIGHT WAY, WAHT DOES IT REALLY MATTER WHY HE DIDN'T DO UNDERGRAD? WE INITIATED A MEMBER LAST YEAR WHO WAS A QUE INTEREST WHEN HE WAS AN UNDERGRAD. WE GOT JOKES BUT WE REALLY GONNA PENALIZE HIM FOR ALMOST MAKING A MISTAKE 6 YEARS AGO? I'm sure he would be in some chapters. We talk out of both sides of our mouth when it comes to this issue. We say want honest people with integrity, but a person can definitely be penalized for choosing to follow the law and rules of an organization. If a person chooses to participate and some shit goes down, we're gonna blame them for choosing to participate. If they don't choose to participate, some people are gonna hold that against them too if they want to pursue grad. Its something that won't be resolved until there is a uniform intake process that is followed and accepted by all chapters. |
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Post by Robelite on May 1, 2010 22:50:00 GMT -5
QUESTION: IF GRAD INTEREST STRAIGHT UP SAID AT INTERVIEW YES THEIR WAS A FLOURISHING UNDERGRAD CHAP AT THEIR SCHOOL BUT IT WAS KNOWN TO PLEDGE/HAZE THEIR LINES AND HE FELT BY ALLOWING HIMSELF TO ATTEMPT TO BE A PART OF A LINE WOULD JEOPARDIZE HIS CHANCES OF BEING A MEMBER, SO WE WANTED TO WAIT TO GRAD. WOULD YOU PENALIZE HIM? CUZ IF YOUR A GRAD CHAPTER TRYNA DO THINGS RIGHT WAY, WAHT DOES IT REALLY MATTER WHY HE DIDN'T DO UNDERGRAD? WE INITIATED A MEMBER LAST YEAR WHO WAS A QUE INTEREST WHEN HE WAS AN UNDERGRAD. WE GOT JOKES BUT WE REALLY GONNA PENALIZE HIM FOR ALMOST MAKING A MISTAKE 6 YEARS AGO? I'm sure he would be in some chapters. We talk out of both sides of our mouth when it comes to this issue. We say want honest people with integrity, but a person can definitely be penalized for choosing to follow the law and rules of an organization. If a person chooses to participate and some shit goes down, we're gonna blame them for choosing to participate. If they don't choose to participate, some people are gonna hold that against them too if they want to pursue grad. Its something that won't be resolved until there is a uniform intake process that is followed and accepted by all chapters. Exhalt! Either "get down" so you can be labled "real," or follow the constitution and by-laws and be label "paper" or a "skater." I tell ya...some of these damned t-shirt wearin', car tag rockin' super-Greeks are so full of schit they STANK!! |
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Post by Julie Art on May 2, 2010 0:31:49 GMT -5
Just bring back the above ground process is what I say.
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Post by Robelite on May 2, 2010 12:44:35 GMT -5
Just bring back the above ground process is what I say. Even if that happens, there are still jackasses out there (in ALL orgs) that will still find it necessary to somehow prove themselves to be "above" everyone else, and will look for ways to circumvent even that process. After all, an above ground process (sanctioned by the excutive offices of each org) will still be just that...A PROCESS SANCTIONED BY THE EXECUTIVE BOARDS! For some, it will still mean "that ain't enough to be real in our chapter and on our yard, etc." |
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Post by Julie Art on May 2, 2010 14:59:58 GMT -5
The problem with the sanctioned process now Rob isn't because it is sanctioned by the governing body, but that it lacks a lot of key elements, period.
And with bringing back the above ground process, it will at least make folks think twice about giving someone a black eye, or any of these other off the wall physical injuries if it is widely known across campus that this particular individual is in the process of joining an org. Not saying it will totally eliminate it, but I do think it will make it less.
I believe there are more people who are for bringing back an above ground process then those who are against.
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Post by Robelite on May 2, 2010 15:14:42 GMT -5
While I agree with alot of what you say, I just know that when these new millenium folks find out that the above ground intiations don't promote what they've been led to believe they do, or think they know what they were truly like, they will look for some other means to make ''real" men or women outside of them. The kinds of things that are of REAL value that have been taken out of the current system STILL won't be enough for many.
I'll wait and see, but I can hear now some of the lame things the violators will whine and cry when they do something stupid, get caught and have to face their punishment for it. Now, what I do believe is that with a return to some of the elements of an above ground initiation (which I think Alpha MAY BE leaning toward) will be MUCH HARSHER punishment for violations ...as it should be.
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Post by Elegance1913 on May 2, 2010 16:06:58 GMT -5
The problem with the sanctioned process now Rob isn't because it is sanctioned by the governing body, but that it lacks a lot of key elements, period. And with bringing back the above ground process, it will at least make folks think twice about giving someone a black eye, or any of these other off the wall physical injuries if it is widely known across campus that this particular individual is in the process of joining an org. Not saying it will totally eliminate it, but I do think it will make it less. I believe there are more people who are for bringing back an above ground process then those who are against. I am not too sure about that. I know it was previously discussed (can't remember if it was here or the old OO) how in the early 90's after the change, above ground activities still took place for a minute on some campuses. And I can tell you that some orgs, despite this, still had their pledges rocking black eyes...and trust that all knew which org they were pledging. I think that a substantial mentality and cultural change will need to take place before legal above ground pledging can return. |
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Post by Robelite on May 2, 2010 16:31:03 GMT -5
The problem with the sanctioned process now Rob isn't because it is sanctioned by the governing body, but that it lacks a lot of key elements, period. And with bringing back the above ground process, it will at least make folks think twice about giving someone a black eye, or any of these other off the wall physical injuries if it is widely known across campus that this particular individual is in the process of joining an org. Not saying it will totally eliminate it, but I do think it will make it less. I believe there are more people who are for bringing back an above ground process then those who are against. I am not too sure about that. I know it was previously discussed (can't remember if it was here or the old OO) how in the early 90's after the change, above ground activities still took place for a minute on some campuses. And I can tell you that some orgs, despite this, still had their pledges rocking black eyes...and trust that all knew which org they were pledging. I think that a substantial mentality and cultural change will need to take place before legal above ground pledging can return.
Truth! And when it does, I think (as I posted above) violations of the above ground process will be swift and harsh...at least from all that I can tell based on the quickness with which Pres. Mason and the executive board of Alpha have dealt with these matters so far since the start of his admin. |
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Post by Julie Art on May 2, 2010 16:47:36 GMT -5
Yes but that time in the 90s is COMPLETELY different then now. More people are aware of these hazing incidents because of all the media coverage. It wasn't to the extent now as it was back then.
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