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Post by Julie Art on Oct 29, 2009 14:09:08 GMT -5
10 years from then to know (1999 to 2009) is a HUGE difference from what I have experienced and see others experience now. I saw the difference starting to take form once I graduated in 2002 and that was a period of 3 years. There will always be a vast change in the way things are done in a 10 year time span, regardless if it is greek related or not. So yes, from what I know and see now based off what I experienced personally (ESPECIALLY within my org. There is a huge difference and those that are my sorors know EXCATLY what I'm talking about), there is a HUGE difference within that 10 year time span, period. As far as schools. I would have to say that I knew of alot of greeks at different schools through out the state and if someone got arrested for hazing (which is what I'm talking about, being arrsested and going to jail and having charges pressed. I know sometimes the police may have showed up to whatever cause of a phone call. That happened to my cousin who pledged up north in the 80's, I'm not unaware of that :  that would have spread just like everything else greek related did amongst the schools. But once again, I'm going off personal experience here and what I saw and experienced first hand, not what I heard others say or do. And times have changed, even within a 10 year time span. Any greek that crossed 10 years ago will tell you that, period. It is inevitable, things will change. Hell, 'my dad can tell you how things changed from the late 60s when he pledged to the late '70s and there were no laws again'st pleding then. 10 year time span. My brother can tell you how things have changed from 1996 to 2006. 10 year time span. As I said before, it is what it is. Times are different and once again I, along with others who have reached that 8,9, or 10 yr span are saying the same, ESPECIALLY greeks I know personally that crossed at schools through out this country. : But as I have stated through out this post and this thread, this is MY experience, and who can talk, debate, or negate my experience unless you were there to experience it with me  . No one is negating YOUR experience but some of what you were saying seem like blanket statements. I thought you pledged a long time ago or something (like 20 years) but to me late 90s isn't that long ago, lol. To you yes because: 1) You aren't in a BGLO (if I recall you are in a service org. though I can't remember the name) so you won't know all the ends and outs of BGLO life 2) You aren't a member of my org. so you definitley couldn't understand some of the things I'm saying 3) You didn't cross a BGLO in 1998, 99, 2000, or at all, period. So they should seem and will remain blanket statements to you for those 3 reasons. And to you 1999 may not be that long up to 2009 (10 years), but ask other greeks that have reached or about to reach within the next year or two the 10 year mark and they will beg to differ. It's all about experience and perception, I'm speaking from both, and you are speaking from one, perception, and that is from the outside looking in. It's all good though  |
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Post by Julie Art on Oct 29, 2009 14:11:55 GMT -5
I try to stay out of these threads but I will say when I got to school which was in fall 2000 .. Some orgs were kicked off for the same reasons they are being kicked off now... def didn't think this was a new trend... I got to college at the same time and the stuff that was going on now is the same stuff that was going on then. Once again, no one is talking about chapters getting kick off the yard being a new phenomena for hazing, there is nothing new about that. But once again, you all can only see this from the outside, hence why I'm bowing out this convo with non-greeks (no offense) cause you aren't going to understand. |
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Post by ReignMan19 on Oct 29, 2009 14:15:45 GMT -5
Reign no one is talking about chapters being kicked off the yard, there is nothing new about that. I'm not neccessarily talking about getting kicked off yard either.. I thought we were referring to the type of behaviors such making folks getting hit with stools, folks having conditions no one knew about etc... |
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Post by Julie Art on Oct 29, 2009 14:18:54 GMT -5
Reign no one is talking about chapters being kicked off the yard, there is nothing new about that. I'm not neccessarily talking about getting kicked off yard either.. I thought we were referring to the type of behaviors such making folks getting hit with stools, folks having conditions no one knew about etc... I wasn't debating that either Reign *sigh*. *defers to last statement in previous post.* |
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Post by ReignMan19 on Oct 29, 2009 14:30:38 GMT -5
I'm not neccessarily talking about getting kicked off yard either.. I thought we were referring to the type of behaviors such making folks getting hit with stools, folks having conditions no one knew about etc... I wasn't debating that either Reign *sigh*. *defers to last statement in previous post.* Uh... yes you were... you clearly stated that folk back in your day knew this type of stuff, took more responsibility when they pledged folks, etc .. I said there were these same type of instances happening back then as well... I understand your situation may have been more secure but the same types of incidents have been going on for a minute.. not really a "times are changing" situation... |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Oct 29, 2009 14:33:30 GMT -5
Actually all of you have a point.
Hank Nuwer (who I suspect is StopHazing) for example documents that hazing and hazing deaths are not a new phenomena at all. What you have to remember though is that hazing is not a BGLO proprietary entity. WGLOs engage in it too - and as a lawmaker you are lookingt at it as an aggregate - not just deaths from BGLOs.
Anti hazing statutes have been in place for awhile, and so have deaths, and people most certainly HAVE been getting arrested for it. It's part of what probably spurred efforts like the Chad Meredith Act in FL. His death was in 2001, and in 2005 they finally got new hazing laws on the books in Florida, the ones by which the Kappas in Fl were subject to.
But that is kind of what Juicy (I think is talking about), alot of these new prosecutions and jail times are new things because the laws themselves are NEWER (not brand new, but new) in an effort to combat hazing deaths; they're becoming tougher and more high profile. But it is inaccurate to suggest that people haven't been getting injured, hurt, killed, arrested, prosecuted related to hazing activities. There has been a steady stream of that for nearly a century. It just not all high profile, they haven't all been subject to NEWER laws, and it's not all being committed by us. hazing.hanknuwer.com/hazingmain.html
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Post by Julie Art on Oct 29, 2009 14:36:08 GMT -5
I wasn't debating that either Reign *sigh*. *defers to last statement in previous post.* Uh... yes you were... you clearly stated that folk back in your day knew this type of stuff, took more responsibility when they pledged folks, etc .. I said there were these same type of instances happening back then as well... I understand your situation may have been more secure but the same types of incidents have been going on for a minute.. not really a "times are changing" situation... AND when I was discussing this with Leja when I said I wasn't understanding folks getting injured from pre-exisiting conditions because I said from my experience this information was sought out, but everyone's process is different, it is what it is, her and I discussed more details of it without going to far into it, along with Fatal I believe. Then I talked about how getting prosecuted is more rampid these days then when I was in school. THAT is what I was discussing. Please don't try and debate me on what I was discussing, trying to say, whatever cause you aren't me therefore wouldn't know. |
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Post by ReignMan19 on Oct 29, 2009 14:36:53 GMT -5
Actually all of you have a point.
Hank Nuwer (who I suspect is StopHazing) for example documents that hazing and hazing deaths are not a new phenomena at all. What you have to remember though is that hazing is not a BGLO proprietary entity. WGLOs engage in it too - and as a lawmaker you are lookingt at it as an aggregate - not just deaths from BGLOs.
Anti hazing statutes have been in place for awhile, and so have deaths, and people most certainly HAVE been getting arrested for it. It's part of what probably spurred efforts like the Chad Meredith Act in FL. His death was in 2001, and in 2005 they finally got new hazing laws on the books in Florida, the ones by which the Kappas in Fl were subject to.
But that is kind of what Juicy (I think is talking about), alot of these new prosecutions and jail times are new things because the laws themselves are NEWER (not brand new, but new) in an effort to combat hazing deaths; they're becoming tougher and more high profile. But it is inaccurate to suggest that people haven't been getting injured, hurt, killed, arrested, prosecuted related to hazing activities. There has been a steady stream of that for nearly a century. It just not all high profile, they haven't all been subject to NEWER laws, and it's not all being committed by us. hazing.hanknuwer.com/hazingmain.html I agree... |
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Post by Julie Art on Oct 29, 2009 14:40:54 GMT -5
Actually all of you have a point.
Hank Nuwer (who I suspect is StopHazing) for example documents that hazing and hazing deaths are not a new phenomena at all. What you have to remember though is that hazing is not a BGLO proprietary entity. WGLOs engage in it too - and as a lawmaker you are lookingt at it as an aggregate - not just deaths from BGLOs.
Anti hazing statutes have been in place for awhile, and so have deaths, and people most certainly HAVE been getting arrested for it. It's part of what probably spurred efforts like the Chad Meredith Act in FL. His death was in 2001, and in 2005 they finally got new hazing laws on the books in Florida, the ones by which the Kappas in Fl were subject to.
But that is kind of what Juicy (I think is talking about), alot of these new prosecutions and jail times are new things because the laws themselves are NEWER (not brand new, but new) in an effort to combat hazing deaths; they're becoming tougher and more high profile. But it is inaccurate to suggest that people haven't been getting injured, hurt, killed, arrested, prosecuted related to hazing activities. There has been a steady stream of that for nearly a century. It just not all high profile, they haven't all been subject to NEWER laws, and it's not all being committed by us. hazing.hanknuwer.com/hazingmain.html So I wasn't speaking French  , thanks for clearing that up Damie. |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Oct 29, 2009 14:56:35 GMT -5
So if we're done scrapping in here... (cause I truly do see all of your points)... can we mosey on down to the General Section where a Free For All is taking shape? Promise it'll be fun. Okay I don't promise but come on down anyway.
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Post by Julie Art on Oct 29, 2009 14:57:52 GMT -5
So if we're done scrapping in here... (cause I truly do see all of your points)... can we mosey on down to the General Section where a Free For All is taking shape? Promise it'll be fun. Okay I don't promise but come on down anyway. ::DEAD:: I see that free for all and I think '91 and Log are about to e-handle you, lol! |
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Post by T-Rex91 on Oct 29, 2009 15:01:24 GMT -5
So if we're done scrapping in here... (cause I truly do see all of your points)... can we mosey on down to the General Section where a Free For All is taking shape? Promise it'll be fun. Okay I don't promise but come on down anyway. Umm, I am the designated instigator around here. I tap out to Chal sometimes but yeah, Imma need you to play YOUR position Quebie. |
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Post by ReignMan19 on Oct 29, 2009 15:39:57 GMT -5
Uh... yes you were... you clearly stated that folk back in your day knew this type of stuff, took more responsibility when they pledged folks, etc .. I said there were these same type of instances happening back then as well... I understand your situation may have been more secure but the same types of incidents have been going on for a minute.. not really a "times are changing" situation... AND when I was discussing this with Leja when I said I wasn't understanding folks getting injured from pre-exisiting conditions because I said from my experience this information was sought out, but everyone's process is different, it is what it is, her and I discussed more details of it without going to far into it, along with Fatal I believe. Then I talked about how getting prosecuted is more rampid these days then when I was in school. THAT is what I was discussing. Please don't try and debate me on what I was discussing, trying to say, whatever cause you aren't me therefore wouldn't know. J there is no debate... I didn't for once imply anything that you were trying to say .. I responded on what you did say... calm down shawty.. I wasn't talking about the general synopsis of your all your posts.. |
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Post by Bunny Hop on Oct 29, 2009 15:44:03 GMT -5
No one is negating YOUR experience but some of what you were saying seem like blanket statements. I thought you pledged a long time ago or something (like 20 years) but to me late 90s isn't that long ago, lol. To you yes because: 1) You aren't in a BGLO (if I recall you are in a service org. though I can't remember the name) so you won't know all the ends and outs of BGLO life
2) You aren't a member of my org. so you definitley couldn't understand some of the things I'm saying
3) You didn't cross a BGLO in 1998, 99, 2000, or at all, period.So they should seem and will remain blanket statements to you for those 3 reasons. And to you 1999 may not be that long up to 2009 (10 years), but ask other greeks that have reached or about to reach within the next year or two the 10 year mark and they will beg to differ. It's all about experience and perception, I'm speaking from both, and you are speaking from one, perception, and that is from the outside looking in. It's all good though I was wondering when those would come out LOL...so predictable |
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Post by Bunny Hop on Oct 29, 2009 15:52:08 GMT -5
I got to college at the same time and the stuff that was going on now is the same stuff that was going on then. Once again, no one is talking about chapters getting kick off the yard being a new phenomena for hazing, there is nothing new about that. But once again, you all can only see this from the outside, hence why I'm bowing out this convo with non-greeks (no offense) cause you aren't going to understand. Well I'm glad I wasn't just talking about chapters getting kicked off campus because then this might actually apply. And no offense taken...I get where the "you ain't greek/in a BGLO/not an XYZ" argument comes from. It's comes out everytime someone won't agree with whatever is being said. |
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Post by Julie Art on Oct 29, 2009 15:56:41 GMT -5
To you yes because: 1) You aren't in a BGLO (if I recall you are in a service org. though I can't remember the name) so you won't know all the ends and outs of BGLO life
2) You aren't a member of my org. so you definitley couldn't understand some of the things I'm saying
3) You didn't cross a BGLO in 1998, 99, 2000, or at all, period.So they should seem and will remain blanket statements to you for those 3 reasons. And to you 1999 may not be that long up to 2009 (10 years), but ask other greeks that have reached or about to reach within the next year or two the 10 year mark and they will beg to differ. It's all about experience and perception, I'm speaking from both, and you are speaking from one, perception, and that is from the outside looking in. It's all good though I was wondering when those would come out LOL...so predictable Yet so realistic |
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Post by Julie Art on Oct 29, 2009 15:57:37 GMT -5
Once again, no one is talking about chapters getting kick off the yard being a new phenomena for hazing, there is nothing new about that. But once again, you all can only see this from the outside, hence why I'm bowing out this convo with non-greeks (no offense) cause you aren't going to understand. Well I'm glad I wasn't just talking about chapters getting kicked off campus because then this might actually apply. And no offense taken...I get where the "you ain't greek/in a BGLO/not an XYZ" argument comes from. It's comes out everytime someone won't agree with whatever is being said. ha! If you say so, it comes from how can you so thorougly try and discuss something you really don't know anything about. You do that ALOT when it comes to BGLOs, regardless if you are agreeing or not. But if that is the theory you want to roll with Bun, then................... |
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Post by Bunny Hop on Oct 29, 2009 16:00:05 GMT -5
So if we're done scrapping in here... (cause I truly do see all of your points)... can we mosey on down to the General Section where a Free For All is taking shape? Promise it'll be fun. Okay I don't promise but come on down anyway. I don't scrap because I'm a LAAAAAAADY ;D |
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Post by Bunny Hop on Oct 29, 2009 16:04:54 GMT -5
Well I'm glad I wasn't just talking about chapters getting kicked off campus because then this might actually apply. And no offense taken...I get where the "you ain't greek/in a BGLO/not an XYZ" argument comes from. It's comes out everytime someone won't agree with whatever is being said. ha! If you say so, it comes from how can you so thorougly try and discuss something you really know anything about. But if that is the theory you want to roll with Bun, so be it. wow...I guess maybe I should take offense this time, huh? anyway...yeah since this is based off of MY experience (kind of like how what you said was based off yours) I'm gonna roll with my theory  |
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Post by nsync on Oct 29, 2009 16:16:53 GMT -5
ROFLMAO!!! and the band keeps playing on. On on...on and on on. This entire debate is predictable to the TEE. To you yes because: 1) You aren't in a BGLO (if I recall you are in a service org. though I can't remember the name) so you won't know all the ends and outs of BGLO life
2) You aren't a member of my org. so you definitley couldn't understand some of the things I'm saying
3) You didn't cross a BGLO in 1998, 99, 2000, or at all, period.So they should seem and will remain blanket statements to you for those 3 reasons. And to you 1999 may not be that long up to 2009 (10 years), but ask other greeks that have reached or about to reach within the next year or two the 10 year mark and they will beg to differ. It's all about experience and perception, I'm speaking from both, and you are speaking from one, perception, and that is from the outside looking in. It's all good though I was wondering when those would come out LOL...so predictable |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Oct 29, 2009 16:19:44 GMT -5
So if we're done scrapping in here... (cause I truly do see all of your points)... can we mosey on down to the General Section where a Free For All is taking shape? Promise it'll be fun. Okay I don't promise but come on down anyway. I don't scrap because I'm a LAAAAAAADY ;D |
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Post by LejaOMG on Oct 29, 2009 16:25:41 GMT -5
I got to college at the same time and the stuff that was going on now is the same stuff that was going on then. Once again, no one is talking about chapters getting kick off the yard being a new phenomena for hazing, there is nothing new about that. But once again, you all can only see this from the outside, hence why I'm bowing out this convo with non-greeks (no offense) cause you aren't going to understand. Not for nothing, I AM Greek, HAVE been in the game for a sec (granted, not an AKA, so I'm not speaking to that...only to the whole 'people getting arrested for hazing' and 'hazing not being against state law' comment you initially made) and I still consider you to be speaking Esperanto. I'm not speaking to any of the issues you raised mid-argument, OR your personal experience, but yeah...non-greeks are not the only ones who consider you somewhat off-mark on this one. |
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Post by ReignMan19 on Oct 29, 2009 16:49:51 GMT -5
No.. The reall HA is you thinking that pointing out someone's "nonblgoness" is even valid in the specific conversation.. anyone can refer back to articles or reports that show evidence that certain things went down and around what time.. So I'm sorry if you took offense but I really wasn't trying to come at you any type of way..but I guess this is what I always do right *kanye shrug*
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Post by Julie Art on Oct 29, 2009 16:53:30 GMT -5
ha! If you say so, it comes from how can you so thorougly try and discuss something you really know anything about. But if that is the theory you want to roll with Bun, so be it. wow...I guess maybe I should take offense this time, huh? anyway...yeah since this is based off of MY experience (kind of like how what you said was based off yours) I'm gonna roll with my theory Nope, no offense needs to be taken, but if you want to, go righhhhhhhhhttttttt ahead |
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Post by Julie Art on Oct 29, 2009 16:58:19 GMT -5
Once again, no one is talking about chapters getting kick off the yard being a new phenomena for hazing, there is nothing new about that. But once again, you all can only see this from the outside, hence why I'm bowing out this convo with non-greeks (no offense) cause you aren't going to understand. Not for nothing, I AM Greek, HAVE been in the game for a sec (granted, not an AKA, so I'm not speaking to that...only to the whole 'people getting arrested for hazing' and 'hazing not being against state law' comment you initially made) and I still consider you to be speaking Esperanto. I'm not speaking to any of the issues you raised mid-argument, OR your personal experience, but yeah...non-greeks are not the only ones who consider you somewhat off-mark on this one. Maybe the words were said wrong as Damie stated, but also as Damie pointed out 2005, is when they really started getting strict with the hazing laws and it became well known and very publiczied (sp?). That is what I'm referring to. You didn't hear about it then they way you hear about it now. The reports of hazing wasn't as well know or as strict when I was in school, even though we all know there were laws against hazing. I'm not ever saying there weren't any when I was in school, if that is what you all took. I'm saying they weren't as strict as they are now, which is the truth. That is what I meant by there is a huge difference. If you still feel it is Esperanto, that is your right, but I stand by what I've said. |
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Post by Julie Art on Oct 29, 2009 17:03:30 GMT -5
No.. The reall HA is you thinking that pointing out someone's "nonblgoness" is even valid in the specific conversation.. anyone can refer back to articles or reports that show evidence that certain things went down and around what time.. So I'm sorry if you took offense but I really wasn't trying to come at you any type of way..but I guess this is what I always do right *kanye shrug* I can read a book and articles, can watch stuff on the news about Aerospace, but that doesn't mean my knowledge is in depth about the subject and when I go to someone who is well versed in the area talking about it like I just know so much, they are going to look at me like Not taking offense, just being honest. You and Bun and some others do comment alot on things that are greek related for you all not to be greek . And that is real talk. I don't really comment on something I have no experience with (i.e. sports section and the football fanatsy, etc.). But each person is different. All I'm saying is, for those who aren't greek that comments alot about greek stuff (which is your right), don't get your feathers twisted when someone points this out, cause I'm not the first that has pointed this out, and I know I won't be the last. Bowing out from this discussion for real cause it's going round and round. I've made my points, rephrased my points, and I stand by them. Peace ;D |
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Post by Bunny Hop on Oct 29, 2009 19:31:18 GMT -5
LOL @ you all. I tried the pre-emptive Olive Branch (again I actually see what you all are talking about and each point made on both side makes sense). Sometimes it's just a few words here or there that keep us from coming to a consensus (which I thought this was). But if you all want to battle it out (and sometimes you just gotta) I gracefully step aside and let you all have at it. I don't want no funky olive branch!!!  I look at it like this....people feel the way they feel, we disagree and life goes on. All the extra in the thread on my part was mostly poking fun. I'm not about to be upset about someone that I don't know not agreeing with me over something like this. Shoot...there are plenty of other things I should waste that negative energy on, lol. |
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Post by Oldskool on Oct 30, 2009 23:58:48 GMT -5
My My, this discussion had a little salt and pepper flavoring.....
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that would have spread just like everything else greek related did amongst the schools.
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{=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif{/=}
, thanks for clearing that up Damie.
