|
|
Post by nsync on Aug 19, 2010 10:21:57 GMT -5
Slavery is mentioned throughout the Bible both directly and indirectly.
Therefore, do you think God is in favor of and/or agrees with people being enslaved?
Why or why not?
|
|
|
|
Post by denounced on Aug 19, 2010 12:38:08 GMT -5
Slavery is mentioned throughout the Bible both directly and indirectly. Therefore, do you think God is in favor of and/or agrees with people being enslaved? Why or why not? Remember one thing, ALL slavery began after the fall. |
|
|
|
Post by ReignMan19 on Aug 19, 2010 14:25:37 GMT -5
Slavery (in biblical terms) was more of a form of servitude (such as a maid, butler etc) not that cotton picking crap that went down over here...
|
|
|
|
Post by LejaOMG on Aug 19, 2010 14:34:04 GMT -5
The distaste that many people have with the history of "slavery" and the term itself causes problems when it comes time to give exclusive devotion to God. "I am a slave to righteousness." I am. Yet many people have much trouble even bringing themselves to say that phrase even if they understand intellectually that it has nothing to do with Willie Lynch.
|
|
|
|
Post by ReignMan19 on Aug 19, 2010 14:37:04 GMT -5
oh yeah that to...
Slave = whole hearted submission..
|
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on Aug 21, 2010 13:25:31 GMT -5
Slavery is mentioned throughout the Bible both directly and indirectly. Therefore, do you think God is in favor of and/or agrees with people being enslaved? Why or why not? Remember one thing, ALL slavery began after the fall. According to the "story" Adam and Eve were both in bondage from the very beginning. FAIL! |
|
|
|
Post by LejaOMG on Aug 23, 2010 8:16:07 GMT -5
^^ and according to the "story," they managed to escape from bondage, with disastrous results, so...
|
|
|
|
Post by nsync on Aug 24, 2010 20:48:04 GMT -5
I don't want to assume but has anyone given a yes or no to the initial question? If so can someone point it out. I would like to respond to it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on Aug 25, 2010 9:40:29 GMT -5
I don't want to assume but has anyone given a yes or no to the initial question? If so can someone point it out. I would like to respond to it. The question isn't that deep. God as it has been presented to us is in effect slavery itself. The End.  |
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on Aug 25, 2010 9:41:57 GMT -5
^^ and according to the "story," they managed to escape from bondage, with disastrous results, so... Disastrous results... lol. Cmon share with us that riot of a sermon. I'll wait. Hell Eve still alive round here some where according to the story. She never died. |
|
|
|
Post by peppermint on Aug 28, 2010 19:03:57 GMT -5
*Unpopular and possibly offensive opinion*
God, in the Christian Bible, is pro-slavery. He expects us to be subjects of Him. I'm not saying that's good, bad or indifferent but He is a slave master.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on Aug 31, 2010 12:20:32 GMT -5
*Unpopular and possibly offensive opinion* God, in the Christian Bible, is pro-slavery. He expects us to be subjects of Him. I'm not saying that's good, bad or indifferent but He is a slave master. Hot dayum she gets it. Want a slice of my peppermint cake?  |
|
|
|
Post by peppermint on Aug 31, 2010 22:31:38 GMT -5
VuDu you make me smile sometimes lol
|
|
|
|
Post by All Pledging Is Legal on Sept 5, 2010 17:44:18 GMT -5
*Unpopular and possibly offensive opinion* God, in the Christian Bible, is pro-slavery. He expects us to be subjects of Him. I'm not saying that's good, bad or indifferent but He is a slave master. I see. I guess that is why I have heard this statement: "I would rather serve in Heaven than reign in Hell." The Bible does talk about serving the Lord and being submissive. |
|
|
|
Post by DamieQue™ on Sept 7, 2010 10:08:11 GMT -5
*Unpopular and possibly offensive opinion* God, in the Christian Bible, is pro-slavery. He expects us to be subjects of Him. I'm not saying that's good, bad or indifferent but He is a slave master. |
|
|
|
Post by DamieQue™ on Sept 7, 2010 10:09:47 GMT -5
^^ and according to the "story," they managed to escape from bondage, with disastrous results, so... Disastrous results... lol. Cmon share with us that riot of a sermon. I'll wait. Hell Eve still alive round here some where according to the story. She never died.
Eve is still alive around here somewhere according to YOU. Has it been so long that you've you forgotten why you claimed that? LOL. |
|
|
|
Post by peppermint on Sept 7, 2010 13:01:30 GMT -5
*Unpopular and possibly offensive opinion* God, in the Christian Bible, is pro-slavery. He expects us to be subjects of Him. I'm not saying that's good, bad or indifferent but He is a slave master. I knew someone would bring this up. I disagree. Slaves had could make the decision to run, talk back, attack the master, etc. There were consequences. Some more dire than others. How is this different that consequences for going against God (sin)? |
|
|
|
Post by DamieQue™ on Sept 7, 2010 14:22:28 GMT -5
Slaves don't have free will. I knew someone would bring this up. I disagree. Slaves had could make the decision to run, talk back, attack the master, etc. There were consequences. Some more dire than others. How is this different that consequences for going against God (sin)?
Are you a slave to the laws of physics? You do not have the latitude to break it's laws. Does that make Physics Pro-Slavery? Let me demonstrate it from another angle.
If you want to make the waters even muddier, every person is a human being - no? And human beings have free will right? If that's so can ANY person therefore be a slave? (By your own criteria the answer is no. Regardless of whatever else they are, as long as they are human beings they have free will therefore they cannot be slaves - not even to God. Thus raising the question: how then can God be pro-slavery when He has given them the gift that makes slavery impossible?)
So which context do we want to use? Do we want to use the context that all human beings have free will thus those we label slaves aren't even really slaves? Or do we want to say that there is such a thing as slavery, that it is a forced condition, and by virtue of being involuntarily held in the state slavery, one did not have free will? |
|
|
|
Post by peppermint on Sept 7, 2010 16:44:37 GMT -5
^^^ But God is at the top of a heirarchy. It's not a play on words; in it's most basic form, a slave is subject to a master. We even sing songs referring to God as "Master." We will say that God gave His only Son in exchange for our lives. Our dedication, worship and praise to Him. When you accept Jesus, you aren't just accepting salvation, you are accepting Him as Lord over your life. The Bible is very clear about what happens when you don't follow Him as Lord. Again, I ask really how is that different from a slave master in the since you are thinking? All slave masters didn't kill, belittle, mistreat, etc. The assumption is that if you enslave someone you are naturally being harmful.
People tend to forget that even the Bible declares that God is jealous and will not have His people serving two masters. If we want to talk about the NT, there is reference to one being turned over to a reprobated mind when they just can't get right.
As I said before, I'm not saying it's good, bad or indifferent. I think many Christians would chose to see what I said as negative. That is their business.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on Sept 8, 2010 0:40:32 GMT -5
Disastrous results... lol. Cmon share with us that riot of a sermon. I'll wait. Hell Eve still alive round here some where according to the story. She never died.
Eve is still alive around here somewhere according to YOU. Has it been so long that you've you forgotten why you claimed that? LOL. Snicker? According to ME? lol Okay show me where in your bible Eve dies then. Lets refresh your memory real quick shall we my brother. onolympus.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=relig&action=display&thread=30&page=3 |
|
|
|
Post by LejaOMG on Sept 8, 2010 9:13:53 GMT -5
{~~ is a slave to God and to Righteousness
{~~ understands the cultural implications of the term, but sets it aside for spiritual matters
{~~ does not see a real conflict here
|
|
|
|
Post by DamieQue™ on Sept 8, 2010 10:06:25 GMT -5
^^^ But God is at the top of a heirarchy. It's not a play on words; in it's most basic form, a slave is subject to a master. We even sing songs referring to God as "Master." We will say that God gave His only Son in exchange for our lives. Our dedication, worship and praise to Him. When you accept Jesus, you aren't just accepting salvation, you are accepting Him as Lord over your life. The Bible is very clear about what happens when you don't follow Him as Lord. Again, I ask really how is that different from a slave master in the since you are thinking? All slave masters didn't kill, belittle, mistreat, etc. The assumption is that if you enslave someone you are naturally being harmful. People tend to forget that even the Bible declares that God is jealous and will not have His people serving two masters. If we want to talk about the NT, there is reference to one being turned over to a reprobated mind when they just can't get right. As I said before, I'm not saying it's good, bad or indifferent. I think many Christians would chose to see what I said as negative. That is their business.
Thus far there have been only 2 options presented (as best I can tell)
1. We are human beings with free will, thus we are slaves to nothing
2. We are slaves to any hierarchy to which we prescribe
I would like to point out that we are not held by force to believe in God, we have the choice to believe or not. Where then is the slavery? Where is one FORCED to believe (and thus not afforded a choice?) |
|
|
|
Post by DamieQue™ on Sept 8, 2010 10:10:23 GMT -5
LOL. You laugh and say, "According to ME?" as though it were not according to you that Eve never died. And then the next sentence in your post is "show me where in your bible Eve dies then". LOL. Isn't that case closed? Aren't you agreeing with me, that YOU are saying that Eve never died?
Thanks for providing the link though
|
|
|
|
Post by LejaOMG on Sept 8, 2010 10:35:05 GMT -5
Where then is the slavery? The slavery is not in the fact that we are forced to serve God, but in the fact that we were bought by him (with the blood of his son). He owns us and has the authority to dictate our behavior. Thankfully, he is benevolent and doesn't misuse the power that we grant him. I said it. Power. We. Grant. Him. We have the free will to revolt (as did the indentured slaves of old) and we have to pay the price should we choose to do so ( ibid). Interestingly, the scripture says that before we were slaves of God, we were enslaved to sin. This is probably easier for most people to reconcile. The wages sin pays are death. All the free will in the world won't help us escape death. Unless you have attained salvation (that is, access to everlasting life) you are still enslaved to sin. If I have to be a slave to something--the options provided in the word are Sin and God--I choose God. |
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on Sept 8, 2010 21:33:54 GMT -5
LOL. You laugh and say, "According to ME?" as though it were not according to you that Eve never died. And then the next sentence in your post is "show me where in your bible Eve dies then". LOL. Isn't that case closed? Aren't you agreeing with me, that YOU are saying that Eve never died?
Thanks for providing the link though Huh? Dude you're not making sense what so ever. Its not according to ME that Eve never died. Your bible doesn't show her dying. YOU have still yet to show any proof in the accepted biblical record of her death. Anywhere. Let it go bruh. Eve never dies in the bible. Period. So now the question is why did you bring it up LIKE it isn't true. lol If it isnt true again... SHOW US IN THE BIBLE WHERE EVE DIES. |
|
|
|
Post by DamieQue™ on Sept 9, 2010 10:10:39 GMT -5
I'm confusing you? LOL. Ok - I'm sure neither one of us has time for the "round-and-rounds" today so let's just start with the basic. Which one are actually saying. Are you saying Eve died......Now you stated God said if they ate from the tree they would surely die. Did Adam Die? Did Eve Die? Yes they did... but why did they die? Did they die because they ate from the tree OR because "God" kicked them out of the Garden out of fear they would also eat from the tree of life and live forever? The fear of the knowledge. So fearful... he used cherubim and a flaming sword to protect it. What does the book say? ... ...What they don't know because the Preacher doesn't tell them and if they do read they read through the eyes of faith is that.... EVE NEVER DIES. NO WHERE. NO WHERE IN THE BYBULL DOES IT STATE EVE DIES. EVER. Before your preach sexism please note in old testament it shows that Sarah Dies, Deborah dies, Rachel dies, Miriam dies, Jezebel dies. but NO EVE.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on Sept 9, 2010 11:05:24 GMT -5
I'm confusing you? LOL. Ok - I'm sure neither one of us has time for the "round-and-rounds" today so let's just start with the basic. Which one are actually saying. Are you saying Eve died......Now you stated God said if they ate from the tree they would surely die. Did Adam Die? Did Eve Die? Yes they did... but why did they die? Did they die because they ate from the tree OR because "God" kicked them out of the Garden out of fear they would also eat from the tree of life and live forever? The fear of the knowledge. So fearful... he used cherubim and a flaming sword to protect it. What does the book say? ... ...What they don't know because the Preacher doesn't tell them and if they do read they read through the eyes of faith is that.... EVE NEVER DIES. NO WHERE. NO WHERE IN THE BYBULL DOES IT STATE EVE DIES. EVER. Before your preach sexism please note in old testament it shows that Sarah Dies, Deborah dies, Rachel dies, Miriam dies, Jezebel dies. but NO EVE. So lets get this straight... you want a whole year.. (Convo happened last April 29) to try an answer the question when and if Eve died? What version am I using? lol. Listen if you are attempting to use the Apocrypha or Psuedoapocrypha to prove your point please know its major STRINGS that come with that which I know you aren't ready to encounter. I read those books in 1998. James H. Charlesworth edited them. You 12 years behind. So... a year and 4 months later Damie has decided at attempting to provide us proof Eve is shown to die. Stage is yours. lol. |
|
|
|
Post by DamieQue™ on Sept 9, 2010 11:34:09 GMT -5
I'm confusing you? LOL. Ok - I'm sure neither one of us has time for the "round-and-rounds" today so let's just start with the basic. Which one are actually saying. Are you saying Eve died...Or are you saying Eve didn't die. Which one are you actually going with. Once it's clear where you stand, I'll put a bow on this one and wrap it up quick. So lets get this straight... you want a whole year.. (Convo happened last April 29) to try an answer the question when and if Eve died? What version am I using? lol. Listen if you are attempting to use the Apocrypha or Psuedoapocrypha to prove your point please know its major STRINGS that come with that which I know you aren't ready to encounter. I read those books in 1998. James H. Charlesworth edited them. You 12 years behind. So... a year and 4 months later Damie has decided at attempting to provide us proof Eve is shown to die. Stage is yours. lol. |
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on Sept 9, 2010 13:01:32 GMT -5
So lets get this straight... you want a whole year.. (Convo happened last April 29) to try an answer the question when and if Eve died? What version am I using? lol. Listen if you are attempting to use the Apocrypha or Psuedoapocrypha to prove your point please know its major STRINGS that come with that which I know you aren't ready to encounter. I read those books in 1998. James H. Charlesworth edited them. You 12 years behind. So... a year and 4 months later Damie has decided at attempting to provide us proof Eve is shown to die. Stage is yours. lol. Explain the contradiction? Planting Goal post? lol. Listen bruh and I'll say this and be done with it. In all of our encounters the engagement stays the same. I bring forth sound arguments using core information that I stand by. You attempt to refute what I say not with biblical verses but preaching and building straw men fallacies to prove your point. So third time here, Show us were Eve is shown to die in the bible. I mean you have already played your hand by stating some "version" you're about to use. One thing Vudu Prince isn't and never will be which is Lukewarm. I categorically outwitted you (as always) in the Satan's Perfection thread and now 16 months later you supposedly have an answer to my question? So whats the hold up? Speak your peace and make it plain. |
|
|
|
Post by DamieQue™ on Sept 9, 2010 13:35:23 GMT -5
LOL - come on we don't need you "Dancing with the Stars" on this question. It's simple. You have given 2 opposing views. I'm not asking you to explain the contradiction - I just want to know which one you actually believe before I start. We're planting the goal posts this time. Explain the contradiction? Planting Goal post? lol. Listen bruh and I'll say this and be done with it. In all of our encounters the engagement stays the same. I bring forth sound arguments using core information that I stand by. You attempt to refute what I say not with biblical verses but preaching and building straw men fallacies to prove your point. So third time here, Show us were Eve is shown to die in the bible. I mean you have already played your hand by stating some "version" you're about to use. One thing Vudu Prince isn't and never will be which is Lukewarm. I categorically outwitted you (as always) in the Satan's Perfection thread and now 16 months later you supposedly have an answer to my question? So whats the hold up? Speak your peace and make it plain.
a) believe EVE died
b) believe EVE didn't die
It's simple. If you believe "A" then we have no debate. I believe she died also. If you believe "B", then we have a debate. So which one is it? |
|
