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Post by T-Rex91 on Aug 16, 2010 7:16:14 GMT -5
I agree with his comments but I am concerned that he is being a little too transparent in his views to be re-elected.
There's no doubt that President Obama's comments about a mosque near Ground Zero in New York City have drawn major attention.
The question is whether they will linger through the Nov. 2 elections.
Sen. John Cornyn, R-Tex., who chairs the National Republican Senatorial Committee, said his apparent support of the Islamic center and mosque so close to the site of the 9/11 attacks reflects a disconnect with the American mainstream.
"This is sort of the dichotomy that people sense, that they're being lectured to, not listened to," Cornyn said on Fox News Sunday. "And I think that's the reason why a lot of people are very upset with Washington."
Obama and aides said his comments dealt with religious freedom, not the wisdom of this particular Islamic center.
Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, said voters are more worried about the nation's future, and that the mosque flap is local.
"The issue is one for the people of New York City," Van Hollen said on CNN's State of the Union.
Expect to hear more on this topic from Obama and other as another date approaches: The ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks.
Here, again, is what Obama said Friday during an Iftar dinner honoring Ramadan:
Recently, attention has been focused on the construction of mosques in certain communities -- particularly New York. Now, we must all recognize and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of Lower Manhattan. The 9/11 attacks were a deeply traumatic event for our country. And the pain and the experience of suffering by those who lost loved ones is just unimaginable. So I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. And Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground.
But let me be clear. As a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are. The writ of the Founders must endure.
Obama sought to clarify his comments Saturday:
In this country we treat everybody equally and in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion. I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That's what our country is about.
And I think it's very important as difficult as some of these issues are that we stay focused on who we are as a people and what our values are all about.
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Post by Cambist on Aug 16, 2010 8:37:49 GMT -5
When I first heard of this idea I thought it was pretty crass. I thought it would be built AT Ground Zero. Then after actually doing what most American's (who have a collective 3rd grade education level) fail to do...READING...I found out that he mosque will be build nearly 2 blocks from ground zero. It's probably a pretty good idea.
President Obama is upholding the Constitution of the United States of America. Religious freedoms are not just the right of Right-Wing Christians. Those rights exist for everyone...including Muslims. The building will be a cultural center. It could be a place where the culture and history of Islamic peoples around the world could be shared and hopefully understood by many in NYC.
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Post by Cambist on Aug 16, 2010 9:09:28 GMT -5
I'm reading some comments from our esteemed leaders and while I'm not shocked or surprised, I am appalled.
We don't want a mosque built because the perpetrators practiced Islam? If we can deny this center from being built then what does that say about American and its credibility around the world as a protector of civil rights and freedoms? They can't build the center because it might hurt some people's feelings?
Get outta here.
I believe the center should ABSOLUTELY be built! It should be opened so that non-Muslims can go in and interact with Muslims in cooking classes, courses about Muslims in America, history courses, etc....this is necessary for healing and furthering our co-existance.
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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 16, 2010 9:32:35 GMT -5
You should be appalled. We should all be outraged by it. Not the building, but the rationale of those that oppose it. It's not just religious freedom, it's the iron-clad xenophobic hypocritical intolerance of the Republican Party that you see shining through.
What they are proposing to build is on privately owned property. Where are all the "freedom" mongers of the from the right wing? I thought they were supposed to support the freedom of individuals (especially on their own land). Where are all the strict constructionist Constitutional Scholars? Where are they to decry this opposition?
What the @#$% was the ADL thinking about opposing this? Are they serious?
If they can oppose a community center why can't they oppose any building? Can a Muslim own a retail store 2 blocks away from ground zero or is that insensitive too?
In fact, exactly how far away from ground zero do Muslims need to be in order to satisfy your bigotry? Can they help on the reconstruction or is that insensitive? Can they work in buildings nearby or is that insensitive? Can they drive on the streets nearby? I mean seriously - what would satisfy these balloon headed bigots?
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Post by Noble Work on Aug 16, 2010 11:52:59 GMT -5
Timothy McVeigh was a Christian man but yet look what he did. Now if Christians wanted to build a church next to ground zero, do you think the masses would demonstrate the same uproar and idiotic, backwards thinking as with this case?
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Post by T-Rex91 on Aug 16, 2010 11:56:14 GMT -5
EXACTLY Work! People want to overlook this fact.
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Post by LejaOMG on Aug 16, 2010 11:57:35 GMT -5
I know this is serious thoughts and all...but I've been thinking about this since I violently turned off my radio last night in response to the "public opinion" of this issue. My question is: when is racism going out of style? No, for real, when I hear people say dumb shyt like "the mosque represents a disconnect with the American mainstream" I just feel like, as a nation, we off that, son! When is some elected official or public figure going to be publically berated (by members of his/her OWN race) for saying racist shyt?
And part of the hurdle is the fact that most Americans aren't even sensitive to racist ideology. When folks accurately link together racist ideas with racist behavior (such as Dr. Laura's insipid comments), it is disregarded as hypersensitivity. This especially true because only minorities and n-word lovers even seem notice in the first place. The outrage about this mosque, IMO, has more to do with R-A-C-E than religion. Why, you ask? Imagine instead of a mosque, that it was an Arab Cultural Center or a Madrasa, or the Kuwaiti Embassy. See? These racists hate everybody who isn't them. Or perhaps what is more, they everyone who does not care to be them. Have a little pride in your own culture, preserve your own language, worship in your own way and you become a threat.
I occasionally feel some type of way about not being able to participate in the political process, but this ish right here reminds me that it doesn't matter.
Ok, end rant.
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Post by Robelite on Aug 16, 2010 12:25:48 GMT -5
When I first heard of this idea I thought it was pretty crass. I thought it would be built AT Ground Zero. Then after actually doing what most American's (who have a collective 3rd grade education level) fail to do...READING...I found out that he mosque will be build nearly 2 blocks from ground zero. It's probably a pretty good idea. President Obama is upholding the Constitution of the United States of America. Religious freedoms are not just the right of Right-Wing Christians. Those rights exist for everyone...including Muslims. The building will be a cultural center. It could be a place where the culture and history of Islamic peoples around the world could be shared and hopefully understood by many in NYC. Simple facts like that continue to go over the heads of the same people who continue to squawk about the president's birth certificate, and the "death panels" he included in his health care bill. These raving lunatics don't want TRUTH, they want to wallow in bullschit; so much to the point that they can make fools of enough other Americans in their attempt to re-gain the WH. |
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Post by Robelite on Aug 16, 2010 12:27:06 GMT -5
You should be appalled. We should all be outraged by it. Not the building, but the rationale of those that oppose it. It's not just religious freedom, it's the iron-clad xenophobic hypocritical intolerance of the Republican Party that you see shining through.
What they are proposing to build is on privately owned property. Where are all the "freedom" mongers of the from the right wing? I thought they were supposed to support the freedom of individuals (especially on their own land). Where are all the strict constructionist Constitutional Scholars? Where are they to decry this opposition?
What the @#$% was the ADL thinking about opposing this? Are they serious?
If they can oppose a community center why can't they oppose any building? Can a Muslim own a retail store 2 blocks away from ground zero or is that insensitive too?
In fact, exactly how far away from ground zero do Muslims need to be in order to satisfy your bigotry? Can they help on the reconstruction or is that insensitive? Can they work in buildings nearby or is that insensitive? Can they drive on the streets nearby? I mean seriously - what would satisfy these balloon headed bigots? Exhalt! |
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Post by 123Diva on Aug 16, 2010 14:29:49 GMT -5
I typed up a whole reply to this thread, but it has been deleted. I am going to leave this one alone.
Carry on ;D
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Post by Julie Art on Aug 16, 2010 15:40:49 GMT -5
What needs to be said, has already been said. I agree with Leja, this has more to do about "race" then "religion". Perfect example of racism.
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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 17, 2010 10:39:42 GMT -5
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Post by nsync on Aug 17, 2010 13:14:26 GMT -5
After hearing about this over and over again, I stumble on the thoughts that help me understand why this is an issue in the first place. I am reminded to be sensative to the many families who lost so much on 9/11, some of which will be affected by the construction. I think it should be built because it presents the opportunity for educating/re-educating citizens about Islam (a religion practiced my many Americans). Also, this situation can foster yet another level of continued healing.
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Post by denounced on Aug 17, 2010 15:25:39 GMT -5
Timothy McVeigh was a Christian man but yet look what he did. Now if Christians wanted to build a church next to ground zero, do you think the masses would demonstrate the same uproar and idiotic, backwards thinking as with this case? Did you actually see what the memorial was at Oklahoma City? |
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Post by denounced on Aug 17, 2010 15:40:39 GMT -5
After hearing about this over and over again, I stumble on the thoughts that help me understand why this is an issue in the first place. I am reminded to be sensative to the many families who lost so much on 9/11, some of which will be affected by the construction. I think it should be built because it presents the opportunity for educating/re-educating citizens about Islam (a religion practiced my many Americans). Also, this situation can foster yet another level of continued healing. "I'm not a politician. I try to avoid the issues of -- the issue of terrorism is a very complex question . And I'm a bridge builder." IMAM FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR MUSLIM ADVANCEMENT If he is a bridge builder, then he should not build it where it is not going to bring about his purpose. Do you know why he won't take sides of the Hamas and terrorism issue? Read the Koran, it's very revealing........... I agree, he should be allowed to build the building right smack dab in the middle of where the towers went down. The question would be, does it fulfill his purpose of building bridges? No! If the people in NYC don't want it in that spot, don't build it there. Cry all you want about people who are opposing it, but I guarantee you it's more than just Repubs. Liberals from centuries past are running this country. Dead and Gone!!!! |
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Post by denounced on Aug 17, 2010 15:55:57 GMT -5
Where do you think ideologies such as socialism, communitarianism, "mandatory" volunteerism, community organizing, EDNA, the GIVE ACT, Pro-choice, etc. come from? How about Marxism, elitism, DIVERSITY (what a joke), collectivism, etc. come from?
APPALLED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 17, 2010 16:04:59 GMT -5
After hearing about this over and over again, I stumble on the thoughts that help me understand why this is an issue in the first place. I am reminded to be sensative to the many families who lost so much on 9/11, some of which will be affected by the construction. I think it should be built because it presents the opportunity for educating/re-educating citizens about Islam (a religion practiced my many Americans). Also, this situation can foster yet another level of continued healing. "I'm not a politician. I try to avoid the issues of -- the issue of terrorism is a very complex question . And I'm a bridge builder." IMAM FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR MUSLIM ADVANCEMENT If he is a bridge builder, then he should not build it where it is not going to bring about his purpose. Do you know why he won't take sides of the Hamas and terrorism issue? Read the Koran, it's very revealing........... I agree, he should be allowed to build the building right smack dab in the middle of where the towers went down. The question would be, does it fulfill his purpose of building bridges? No! If the people in NYC don't want it in that spot, don't build it there. Cry all you want about people who are opposing it, but I guarantee you it's more than just Repubs. Liberals from centuries past are running this country. Dead and Gone!!!!
It's ridiculous Den. You know it is. It would be as if someone from your church bombed a building, and years later your church tried to host a function or build a building some place, and people's families who were victim to that bomber - felt YOU were being insensitive. Doesn't matter that YOU didn't have anything to do with the bomber - if he did it, then YOU did it - the hand of one is the hand of all. It's a flawed principle that remains flawed no matter who it's applied to.
It is not a given that sensitivity to your iniatives and efforts are a reason to abandon them. You have been protested here and on the old OO plenty. Has that stopped you? Moreover do you believe that it SHOULD have stopped you? Then why should the Imam stop? |
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Post by Julie Art on Aug 17, 2010 19:16:07 GMT -5
too much reason Damie, too much! Lol.
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Post by denounced on Aug 18, 2010 7:33:54 GMT -5
No Damie, it is a bit different. The Koran, you know, the Muslims Holy Book, calls for violence against Christians and Jews. The ones out there blowing stuff up are real Muslims. So your logic is flawed here. I see no difference in Obama's religious capitulations and this Imam's. The cultural elitists, Obama included, want to lull Christians into REM sleep, while they push through agendas that they learned from dead men and women, and some still alive.
Damie,
Notice what I said about "smack dab" in the middle. I know where they want it built, I am taking it a step further to say that they should be allowed to build it there if it is legal. You think I oppose their right to build it? Nope! I oppose it on the basis of fake Muslims trying to act like they follow the dictates of Allah. Everybody got lulled to sleep after 1993, and look what happened, the real ones showed back up and completed the mission the other bomber said was not over. If muslims want their building, then give them Sharia Law.
Should taxpayer dollars be funding Rauf's trip to promote Islam abroad? Where did the funding for the 96th street mosque come from?
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Aug 18, 2010 9:28:04 GMT -5
No Damie, it is a bit different. The Koran, you know, the Muslims Holy Book, calls for violence against Christians and Jews. The ones out there blowing stuff up are real Muslims. So your logic is flawed here. I see no difference in Obama's religious capitulations and this Imam's. The cultural elitists, Obama included, want to lull Christians into REM sleep, while they push through agendas that they learned from dead men and women, and some still alive. Damie, Notice what I said about "smack dab" in the middle. I know where they want it built, I am taking it a step further to say that they should be allowed to build it there if it is legal. You think I oppose their right to build it? Nope! I oppose it on the basis of fake Muslims trying to act like they follow the dictates of Allah. Everybody got lulled to sleep after 1993, and look what happened, the real ones showed back up and completed the mission the other bomber said was not over. If muslims want their building, then give them Sharia Law. Should taxpayer dollars be funding Rauf's trip to promote Islam abroad? Where did the funding for the 96th street mosque come from? Well atleast the Koran limits its bs to Jews and Christians... On the other hand both Judiasm and Christianity call for the death of ALL unbelievers. Yes ALL of them. So your angle is flawed completely. Lets take a look... Deut 13: 6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. Or how about Matthew 10? You CAN'T be serious with this one. lol |
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Post by 123Diva on Aug 18, 2010 10:51:12 GMT -5
::sigh::
Legality alone doesn't necessarily equal Prudence.
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Post by denounced on Aug 18, 2010 11:04:51 GMT -5
No Damie, it is a bit different. The Koran, you know, the Muslims Holy Book, calls for violence against Christians and Jews. The ones out there blowing stuff up are real Muslims. So your logic is flawed here. I see no difference in Obama's religious capitulations and this Imam's. The cultural elitists, Obama included, want to lull Christians into REM sleep, while they push through agendas that they learned from dead men and women, and some still alive. Damie, Notice what I said about "smack dab" in the middle. I know where they want it built, I am taking it a step further to say that they should be allowed to build it there if it is legal. You think I oppose their right to build it? Nope! I oppose it on the basis of fake Muslims trying to act like they follow the dictates of Allah. Everybody got lulled to sleep after 1993, and look what happened, the real ones showed back up and completed the mission the other bomber said was not over. If muslims want their building, then give them Sharia Law. Should taxpayer dollars be funding Rauf's trip to promote Islam abroad? Where did the funding for the 96th street mosque come from? Well atleast the Koran limits its bs to Jews and Christians... On the other hand both Judiasm and Christianity call for the death of ALL unbelievers. Yes ALL of them. So your angle is flawed completely. Lets take a look... Deut 13: 6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. Or how about Matthew 10? You CAN'T be serious with this one. lol As usual VuDu, you fail to mention what is also true. I also believe you know it to be true. The Koran actually says ALL infidels............... Now about the Bible, God would that NONE would persih, but that all would come to repentance. I would that ALL men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. That doesn't sound like death to all. You see the other difference is that one DIED, so that ALL may live. God does not call on Christians to go out and murder, and I believe you know it. If not, I feel sorry for you. |
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Post by peppermint on Aug 18, 2010 11:08:02 GMT -5
For a change, I'm glad VP stepped in  . I hate when people come with that the Koran says XYZ when the Bible says very similar things. Denny do you believe Christians should be tolerant of other belief systems? |
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Post by denounced on Aug 18, 2010 11:10:04 GMT -5
::sigh:: Legality alone doesn't necessarily equal Prudence. If I understand you correctly, I agree with your statement. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should........ |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 18, 2010 11:37:30 GMT -5
::sigh:: Legality alone doesn't necessarily equal Prudence. If I understand you correctly, I agree with your statement. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should........
When Glenn Beck changes the date of his Tea-Party rally from the anniversary date of the I Have A Dream Speech - then they can come and talk to me about prudence, sensitivity, and legality.
I will not entertain their hypocrisy Den and you shouldn't either. |
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Post by Julie Art on Aug 18, 2010 11:48:33 GMT -5
Pep does have a great point, so does Damie. All the stuff they have done in the name of "history" when it come to the Civil War and the like, no one seems to care about the sensitivity of black people. Sout Carolina and other certain states care less how having confederate flags dang near everywhere would make black folks feel. Univ. of Mississippi could care less that their mascot is offensive to a particular race. Double standards like a mofo.
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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 18, 2010 12:06:45 GMT -5
Exactly Juicy
When is Fox news going to rally the troops against letting the Klan march? That's a legally protected right for them to but when are they going to start making it a question of prudence? When are they going to start making it a question of prudence for the Confederate Flag? When are they going to start making it a question of prudence for franchises like "The Redskins"? Where is the outrage?
They can miss me with this sensitivity crap.
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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 18, 2010 12:36:22 GMT -5
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Post by denounced on Aug 18, 2010 15:10:47 GMT -5
For a change, I'm glad VP stepped in . I hate when people come with that the Koran says XYZ when the Bible says very similar things. Denny do you believe Christians should be tolerant of other belief systems? We are tolerant of other beilef systems, we're just not gonna call it the truth. Bottom line, if we are tolerat of Islam, then let them have Jihad in America, no questions asked. Now about your Bible comment; pure lack of knowledge or ignorance. There are somethings a true Christian cannot be neutral about. |
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Post by denounced on Aug 18, 2010 15:24:51 GMT -5
Damie,
You're really starting to sound like you went to Clinton's Governor's School, or did a stint in Public Allies. Honestly, what should our laws be based upon? Should there be one standard, two, three, etc.? How about we adopt Islamic Law for a year?
Should there be an ordinance that makes people who own their own businesses to make smokers take it outside? I would be real careful how you answer that one, you might put yourself in a pickle like Rand "we don't have to serve you" Paul did.
Are you saying that liberals have problems with a Klan march? Your party is all about diversity, that's if you are a democrat. So what's the problem?
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