|
|
Post by nsync on May 12, 2010 14:43:05 GMT -5
I'm just seeing this. Thanks. Seriously this topic frustrates me. lol It really does. Rotfl! Outtie that is the best response yet to the whole fall of humanity being placed on woman/Eve! ^^^^ or maybe it's just the people on this board and those like them. The first few years here I REALLY TRULY believed I was in the twilight zone. It felt like a reoccuring nightmare---except I couldn't stop falling asleep to avoid it. lol Anyhow, Pep, Im truly not understanding the talk show topic. Is the f"all of holy women" an already known concept. I need more clarity please. One thing that I'd like to point out---when folks blame everything on Eve---is-- God did not tell Eve not to eat the apple. He told Adam before Eve was even created.Correct me if I am wrong. Therefore when Eve gave Adam the apple to eat HE had first hand knowledge and direction. He should have said no. Yet he ate it. Then when questioned he immediately blamed her, when he was the leader not vice versa. When Eve ate the apple nothing. When Adam ate the apple fall of mankind. So uruh Adam could have saved us all but he did not display good leadership skills. So if anything it was the beginning of patriarchy(men leading us down the wrong path yet demanding leader status just because they have a penis, but not because they actually earned it) not feminism. |
|
|
|
Post by nsync on May 12, 2010 14:49:38 GMT -5
Where is the debate VP? Donde? LOL I can't with you today, I just can't. But I will say if you were the first to mention here that Eve wasn't told about not eating the fruit ---then I will give you props. I know I have been saying this before you were born...though. lol Thanks Loggie. VP no where in the bible does it indicate the God directly told Eve not to eat the fruit. Yet it shows that He did tell Adam. Once this verse hits you are left up to speculation. Maybe God did tell her. Maybe Adam told her. Maybe she was just making up stuff. Maybe .... So yes Eve was aware that she should not eat the fruit. Yet the responsibility was CLEARLY given to Adam by God. That was the point I was making. If you are attempting to win this debate you are going down the wrong path. As I broughtup in the Satan's Perfection thread Satan NEVER speaks to Adam as well. So now you arrive at an empass. "God" never speaks to Eve...... The Serpent never speaks to Adam. Since Eve didn't speak with the "God" (as I also raised earlier which everyone in this post now bandwagons on not realizing you were against this very thing I brought up earlier) she never is condemned to death per the story. She is never shown to die ever. Atleast I see growth whether yall realize it or not. lol Carry on |
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on May 12, 2010 16:46:16 GMT -5
Where is the debate VP? Donde? LOL I can't with you today, I just can't. But I will say if you were the first to mention here that Eve wasn't told about not eating the fruit ---then I will give you props. I know I have been saying this before you were born...though. lol If you are attempting to win this debate you are going down the wrong path. As I broughtup in the Satan's Perfection thread Satan NEVER speaks to Adam as well. So now you arrive at an empass. "God" never speaks to Eve...... The Serpent never speaks to Adam. Since Eve didn't speak with the "God" (as I also raised earlier which everyone in this post now bandwagons on not realizing you were against this very thing I brought up earlier) she never is condemned to death per the story. She is never shown to die ever. Atleast I see growth whether yall realize it or not. lol Carry on You brought an opposing point of view to what was put forth by someone else. You then provided supporting commentary. Thats a debate. Thing is the point is mute because the person in question spake that she indeed was aware of not only the directive but also the consequences for not following it. Think of it this way if Eve were ur client. If you attempt to claim ignorance as a defense (which u really couldn't) for your client but I come along representing Satan and ask her (Hey did you tell Satan about the directive given to Adam?) and she responds with yes then your argument fails and she goes to prison. So you can't put it on Adam that he was supposed to lead in this situation for two reasons #1 Eve knew the directive #2 The serpent never speaks to Adam Its simple |
|
|
|
Post by Julie Art on May 12, 2010 23:03:50 GMT -5
Oh, I do understand! As a woman, TRUST I do understand when its brought up. I'm just seeing this. Thanks. Seriously this topic frustrates me. lol It really does. Rotfl! Outtie that is the best response yet to the whole fall of humanity being placed on woman/Eve! |
|
|
|
Post by Chal™ on May 12, 2010 23:32:26 GMT -5
Eve knew (from Adam)
Eve ate
Eve could have been punished alone
Adam was told (DIRECTLY)
Adam was offered fruit
Adam ate
Shame on who?
Adam or Eve?
|
|
|
|
Post by Chal™ on May 12, 2010 23:32:49 GMT -5
Adam
|
|
|
|
Post by goldmind1922 on May 13, 2010 3:01:24 GMT -5
... I could see how someone related the serpent to feminism. The question would then become is feminism the fall of the Godly woman?
|
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on May 13, 2010 7:01:05 GMT -5
The serpent isn't related to feminism because if it were then she would've never offered Adam fruit in the first place. I detest feminist just as I detest male chauvinism. Its all about duality and balance. If you are a woman hater/ man hater then you are against duality. You are against life.
For this story which it is just a story....
These are questions I asked in Satan's Perfection thread....
If one has not the knowledge of Good and Evil can they be prepared to notice Good vs Evil?
Furthermore per the story the woman (as again Eve didn't get her name until after they were out of the Garden from Adam) knew the directive and the so-called outcome. She spake with the Serpent and ate the fruit. She gave it to Adam and he ate it. So going down the road of what Adam was supposed to do concerning the fruit is pointless as the Serpent never talks to him and Eve never says "Well let me talk to Adam" She just eats... Here is the point I think women who are Christians should raise. What did Adam say concerning the woman when she was brought to him?
Genesis 23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Yeahhh I bet yall thought your "God" gave that directive huh? Naw ADAM said that. Did Adam live up to his own proclamation? fuck NO. He cowered down like a bitch when shit got hot. THAT's the point christian women should make. We are one flesh why didn't you stand with us when "God" came to issue punishment? You went back on your own promise and duties. Just maybe Adam didn't understand because it is a mother's love and stern tutelage that gives a man his Courage... Adam per the story didn't have a mother. He didn't innerstand(yeah I said it) the meaning of defending the honor of your woman regardless of what has happened.
|
|
|
|
Post by nsync on May 13, 2010 13:41:25 GMT -5
LOL. I am going down that road with you. Because as you and I both know it's gets really slippery. ;D But I will say that one thing I find to be interesting is that in the original Hebrew...it says two fruit were present. One Eve ate herself and the other she gave to Adam to eat. Adam was present at the tree. He knew what was going on. He sat back and let the woman do it because HE WANTED HER TO DO IT. HE wanted to eat the fruit, but he didnt want the responsibility. SOUND FAMILIARRRRRRRRRR? lol But he knew if she ate it first he could blame her...which is exactly what he did when God came looking for who...? HIM. WHY? Because he gave the order to ADAM BEFORE EVE WAS EVEN FORMED. Adam= Leader No debate. PS. But what is interesting is that after it all came out in the open God punished the serpent first. Why folks wanna blame Eve? Start at the root of the problem. The serpent. Uhum. Where is the debate VP? Donde? LOL I can't with you today, I just can't. But I will say if you were the first to mention here that Eve wasn't told about not eating the fruit ---then I will give you props. I know I have been saying this before you were born...though. lol You brought an opposing point of view to what was put forth by someone else. You then provided supporting commentary. Thats a debate. Thing is the point is mute because the person in question spake that she indeed was aware of not only the directive but also the consequences for not following it. Think of it this way if Eve were ur client. If you attempt to claim ignorance as a defense (which u really couldn't) for your client but I come along representing Satan and ask her (Hey did you tell Satan about the directive given to Adam?) and she responds with yes then your argument fails and she goes to prison. So you can't put it on Adam that he was supposed to lead in this situation for two reasons #1 Eve knew the directive #2 The serpent never speaks to Adam Its simple |
|
|
|
Post by nsync on May 13, 2010 13:42:31 GMT -5
Can you expand? ... I could see how someone related the serpent to feminism. The question would then become is feminism the fall of the Godly woman? |
|
|
|
Post by nsync on May 13, 2010 13:49:21 GMT -5
I am just seeing this. 92% of the human population are male chauvinist. Feminism is simply a response to that. But I agree with you statement about it. Ima exalt you. Balance it what we all should be aiming for... The rest I have to think on a bit. I don't think we disagree here, but I have to read it again to make sure. The serpent isn't related to feminism because if it were then she would've never offered Adam fruit in the first place. I detest feminist just as I detest male chauvinism. Its all about duality and balance. If you are a woman hater/ man hater then you are against duality. You are against life. For this story which it is just a story.... These are questions I asked in Satan's Perfection thread.... If one has not the knowledge of Good and Evil can they be prepared to notice Good vs Evil? Furthermore per the story the woman (as again Eve didn't get her name until after they were out of the Garden from Adam) knew the directive and the so-called outcome. She spake with the Serpent and ate the fruit. She gave it to Adam and he ate it. So going down the road of what Adam was supposed to do concerning the fruit is pointless as the Serpent never talks to him and Eve never says "Well let me talk to Adam" She just eats... Here is the point I think women who are Christians should raise. What did Adam say concerning the woman when she was brought to him? Genesis 23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Yeahhh I bet yall thought your "God" gave that directive huh? Naw ADAM said that. Did Adam live up to his own proclamation? fuck NO. He cowered down like a bitch when shit got hot. THAT's the point christian women should make. We are one flesh why didn't you stand with us when "God" came to issue punishment? You went back on your own promise and duties. Just maybe Adam didn't understand because it is a mother's love and stern tutelage that gives a man his Courage... Adam per the story didn't have a mother. He didn't innerstand(yeah I said it) the meaning of defending the honor of your woman regardless of what has happened. |
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on May 13, 2010 15:48:38 GMT -5
I am just seeing this. 92% of the human population are male chauvinist. Feminism is simply a response to that. But I agree with you statement about it. Ima exalt you. Balance it what we all should be aiming for... The rest I have to think on a bit. I don't think we disagree here, but I have to read it again to make sure. The serpent isn't related to feminism because if it were then she would've never offered Adam fruit in the first place. I detest feminist just as I detest male chauvinism. Its all about duality and balance. If you are a woman hater/ man hater then you are against duality. You are against life. For this story which it is just a story.... These are questions I asked in Satan's Perfection thread.... If one has not the knowledge of Good and Evil can they be prepared to notice Good vs Evil? Furthermore per the story the woman (as again Eve didn't get her name until after they were out of the Garden from Adam) knew the directive and the so-called outcome. She spake with the Serpent and ate the fruit. She gave it to Adam and he ate it. So going down the road of what Adam was supposed to do concerning the fruit is pointless as the Serpent never talks to him and Eve never says "Well let me talk to Adam" She just eats... Here is the point I think women who are Christians should raise. What did Adam say concerning the woman when she was brought to him? Genesis 23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Yeahhh I bet yall thought your "God" gave that directive huh? Naw ADAM said that. Did Adam live up to his own proclamation? fuck NO. He cowered down like a bitch when shit got hot. THAT's the point christian women should make. We are one flesh why didn't you stand with us when "God" came to issue punishment? You went back on your own promise and duties. Just maybe Adam didn't understand because it is a mother's love and stern tutelage that gives a man his Courage... Adam per the story didn't have a mother. He didn't innerstand(yeah I said it) the meaning of defending the honor of your woman regardless of what has happened. 92% of the population isn't Male Chauvinistic and furthermore I lump Feminist with Male Chauvinist. If you have a problem with women then I have a problem with you. If you have a problem with men then I have a problem with you. Both are against duality. Both are against balance. Both are against Life. It's simple. Furthermore if you take the path of your argument you will get shut down. Period. Eve knew the directive and outcome. Your argument fails. BUT if you go with the proclamation that Adam made that a man should cleave unto his wife and they are one flesh then you'll have an argument. It's simple. |
|
|
|
Post by nsync on May 13, 2010 16:03:56 GMT -5
VP, I don't care if I get "shut down". I went to the hebrew. I understand how it is translated. I know the truth with in me. I don't need to prove it to anyone.
If someone wants to listen and believe they will. If they don't they will not.
Ultimately we agree here about Adam not standing up.
That's the point I was making originally.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mrs. Eyes on May 13, 2010 17:24:43 GMT -5
Thanks Loggie. VP no where in the bible does it indicate the God directly told Eve not to eat the fruit. Yet it shows that He did tell Adam. Once this verse hits you are left up to speculation. Maybe God did tell her. Maybe Adam told her. Maybe she was just making up stuff. Maybe .... So yes Eve was aware that she should not eat the fruit. Yet the responsibility was CLEARLY given to Adam by God. That was the point I was making. If you are attempting to win this debate you are going down the wrong path. As I broughtup in the Satan's Perfection thread Satan NEVER speaks to Adam as well. So now you arrive at an empass. "God" never speaks to Eve...... The Serpent never speaks to Adam. Since Eve didn't speak with the "God" (as I also raised earlier which everyone in this post now bandwagons on not realizing you were against this very thing I brought up earlier) she never is condemned to death per the story. She is never shown to die ever. Atleast I see growth whether yall realize it or not. lol Carry on So what the serpant didn't speak to Adam. Adam STILL holds the responsibility. Was Eve warned of NOT eating from the tree? No. So honestly, her falling for what the serpant said is still messed up on her part, but when it came for Adam to eat, he made a choice. He chose to disobey what God had instructed him NOT to do. So when Adam ate the fruit, God punished him because it God gave him an instruction to follow, and Adam made his choice. The responsibility still falls on Adam. |
|
|
|
Post by Julie Art on May 13, 2010 18:38:01 GMT -5
And there it is! Its about reading for yourself, drawing your own conclusion for what is true for YOU and moving on. Its not about trying to shut someone down or win a debate or whatever else. Its about speaking about resonant with you, listening to others, draw your own conclusion again, agree to disagree if that is your stance and move on. All that other off the wall b.s. Is over consumption, straight up. VP, I don't care if I get "shut down". I went to the hebrew. I understand how it is translated. I know the truth with in me. I don't need to prove it to anyone. If someone wants to listen and believe they will. If they don't they will not. Ultimately we agree here about Adam not standing up. That's the point I was making originally. |
|
|
|
Post by goldmind1922 on May 13, 2010 20:57:00 GMT -5
Can you expand? ... I could see how someone related the serpent to feminism. The question would then become is feminism the fall of the Godly woman? Looking at it solely from selling the notion of equality to God and man, it makes sense. It's not taking away from the traditional understanding of the serpent, but rather adding an additional view point. Feminism, in its extreme form means total disregard for males... it's even the rejection of a male "God." It says that a woman ought not to be bound by anything. I don't agree with the radio host, but can understand where s/he was coming from. Relating to the "Fall" of the Godly woman, this independence would make her unsubmissive to her husband. It would make her belief that she does not have to follow the commandments of God because, again she should not be oppressed by men. |
|
|
|
Post by DamieQue™ on May 13, 2010 21:58:32 GMT -5
Looking at it solely from selling the notion of equality to God and man, it makes sense. It's not taking away from the traditional understanding of the serpent, but rather adding an additional view point. Feminism, in its extreme form means total disregard for males... it's even the rejection of a male "God." It says that a woman ought not to be bound by anything. I don't agree with the radio host, but can understand where s/he was coming from. Relating to the "Fall" of the Godly woman, this independence would make her unsubmissive to her husband. It would make her belief that she does not have to follow the commandments of God because, again she should not be oppressed by men. |
|
|
|
Post by Julie Art on May 13, 2010 23:02:52 GMT -5
Yeah it really was.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on May 14, 2010 7:35:02 GMT -5
Your responses sadly say that you don't. Lets make an analogy here. If you and your husband have a situation, know the outcome and understands he is supposed to take the lead on... how is he blamed for your ACTIONS in which you did by yourself without consulting him before doing it? You think that would fly with your man? lol. I'd bet $1,000 it wouldn't. Again Adam's fault was NOT standing with his woman when the punishment came. He didn't stand up and make good on his proclamation which probably up to this point your preacher told you that the man cleave unto his woman was a directive of "God" when it's from Adam himself. He didn't follow his own orders. It seems as if you are making a case while using a bad sermon as the back drop. CLEARLY you're not reading Genesis 3 by the letter. It's obvious.
Genesis 3:2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Now wait a minute... It shows here that not only did the woman get the memo she knew where it came from. We never see in the story where she got it from but we cant say she got it from Adam. When asked about the tree she doesn't say Adam hath said... she states "God" hath said.
Go read your bible. Clearly shows the woman got the memo and the outcome. Read above too. Don't say you read when it shows you haven't. Adam stated they were one flesh and he cowered down like a little girl when it came time for him to stand for his woman. That's the problem.
You're not even a factor in this convo. I just quoted your ramblings for the hell of it. lol
Listen sistahs (and other's) if you are a christian start reading your bible's for yourselves concerning this matter. You will then see
#1 Adam made the proclamation Genesis 2:23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. [/b] which he did not live up to.
#2 Eve knew the directive, outcome and who it came from Genesis 3:2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
#3 The serpent issue is NOT the beginning of feminism per the story its actually the END of it if the feminist agenda is to be on equal ground with the man. It states as punishment for the woman Genesis 316Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
So we can gather up to that point the woman's desire was NOT to they husband and he did NOT rule over thee. Reading is essential. Simple. Can't be off the wall when its being quoted verbatim.
|
|
|
|
Post by nsync on May 14, 2010 8:17:43 GMT -5
Okay thanks for explaining that because I could not see the connection at all. Lol With that being said I can finally answer the topic head because this has just become an extremely awesome topic lol. Ill be back. Before I leave I want to caution the use of the extreme forms of anything as the example. Feminism is not the hatred of men. Feminism is was and will always be a group of societal movements geared towars establishing the rights and protection of women. That is the core of it all. Looking at it solely from selling the notion of equality to God and man, it makes sense. It's not taking away from the traditional understanding of the serpent, but rather adding an additional view point. Feminism , in its extreme form means total disregard for males... it's even the rejection of a male "God." It says that a woman ought not to be bound by anything. I don't agree with the radio host, but can understand where s/he was coming from. Relating to the "Fall" of the Godly woman, this independence would make her unsubmissive to her husband. It would make her belief that she does not have to follow the commandments of God because, again she should not be oppressed by men. |
|
|
|
Post by peppermint on May 14, 2010 8:42:48 GMT -5
Gold, in essence, that was her point. Also she didn't consult with Adam before eating the fruit. Many times it's expected that couples make decisions together. Her new found independence told her to do this without consulting her wiser, stronger husband.
Outtie, when you are dealing with these people, we have to remember they operate in an extremes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vudu_Prince on May 14, 2010 8:54:53 GMT -5
Gold, in essence, that was her point. Also she didn't consult with Adam before eating the fruit. Many times it's expected that couples make decisions together. Her new found independence told her to do this without consulting her wiser, stronger husband. Outtie, when you are dealing with these people, we have to remember they operate in an extremes. I wouldn't say Adam was wiser or stronger. If you are working as a Unit then work as a Unit. bones of my bones flesh of my flesh.. One flesh. One Unit. When Adam ate the apple from his wife he didn't question it. It showed the man had trust in his wife. Adam also showed cowardness when he basically dropped dime on his wife to "God" instead of standing with her like a man even if she was in error. A couple consults with one another when making decisions. it shouldn't be seen as a person being less than who they are by doing this. |
|
|
|
Post by DamieQue™ on May 14, 2010 9:20:55 GMT -5
Your responses sadly say that you don't. Lets make an analogy here. If you and your husband have a situation, know the outcome and understands he is supposed to take the lead on... how is he blamed for your ACTIONS in which you did by yourself without consulting him before doing it? You think that would fly with your man? lol. I'd bet $1,000 it wouldn't. Again Adam's fault was NOT standing with his woman when the punishment came. He didn't stand up and make good on his proclamation which probably up to this point your preacher told you that the man cleave unto his woman was a directive of "God" when it's from Adam himself. He didn't follow his own orders. It seems as if you are making a case while using a bad sermon as the back drop. CLEARLY you're not reading Genesis 3 by the letter. It's obvious. Genesis 3:2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Now wait a minute... It shows here that not only did the woman get the memo she knew where it came from. We never see in the story where she got it from but we cant say she got it from Adam. When asked about the tree she doesn't say Adam hath said... she states "God" hath said. Go read your bible. Clearly shows the woman got the memo and the outcome. Read above too. Don't say you read when it shows you haven't. Adam stated they were one flesh and he cowered down like a little girl when it came time for him to stand for his woman. That's the problem. You're not even a factor in this convo. I just quoted your ramblings for the hell of it. lol Listen sistahs (and other's) if you are a christian start reading your bible's for yourselves concerning this matter. You will then see #1 Adam made the proclamation Genesis 2:23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. [/b] which he did not live up to. #2 Eve knew the directive, outcome and who it came from Genesis 3:2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. #3 The serpent issue is NOT the beginning of feminism per the story its actually the END of it if the feminist agenda is to be on equal ground with the man. It states as punishment for the woman Genesis 316Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.So we can gather up to that point the woman's desire was NOT to they husband and he did NOT rule over thee. Reading is essential. Simple. Can't be off the wall when its being quoted verbatim. [/quote] I almost hate to do it... but I'm going to have to exalt you for this one LOL. I think point 1 is somewhat up for debate - it is not clear to me that it is at Adam's directive that they are one flesh. But that's not central to the argument, the point is that they are one flesh, and thus Adam's response (to pass the buck) is unacceptable.
There is nothing to argue on #2. It was obvious to me the minute that I saw it. As for #3 it's a really good observation which further refutes the original claim (that feminism begin with the fall or had anything to do with the fall). You could also argue that since Eve didn't eat the fruit out of want to be equal to Adam, but rather did so because she was lured into it, it does not stand to reason that feminism had ANYTHING to do with the fall. |
|
|
|
Post by peppermint on May 14, 2010 9:25:57 GMT -5
Gold, in essence, that was her point. Also she didn't consult with Adam before eating the fruit. Many times it's expected that couples make decisions together. Her new found independence told her to do this without consulting her wiser, stronger husband. Outtie, when you are dealing with these people, we have to remember they operate in an extremes. I wouldn't say Adam was wiser or stronger. If you are working as a Unit then work as a Unit. bones of my bones flesh of my flesh.. One flesh. One Unit. When Adam ate the apple from his wife he didn't question it. It showed the man had trust in his wife. Adam also showed cowardness when he basically dropped dime on his wife to "God" instead of standing with her like a man even if she was in error. A couple consults with one another when making decisions. it shouldn't be seen as a person being less than who they are by doing this. But the message that comes across (in many churches) is that Adam (or man) is wiser/stronger than Eve (woman). Now you said something when you said that he basically left her hanging. I have some thought about that, but don't want to step on any toes. Let's just say I think that has carried over to modern times. |
|
|
|
Post by nsync on May 14, 2010 10:20:09 GMT -5
VP we are really saying the same thing from different angles. I am not blaming Eve's actions on Adam. I am blaming Adams lack of leadership on Adam. When Eve gives Adam the apple does he say NO I will not eat from tree. A hecky no! He eats and then has the NERVE to blame it on her when God comes looking for him. Does that sound like leadership? Using your example that's like my husband being over the household budget. He sets the budget. We both follow. Then I ask him "hubby let's take the bill money and buy xyz." I take the money out and give him half. We both spend. Then when the electricity gets turned off he tells the company its my fault because I gave the money to him? No he will take responsibility for it. Why? Because not only did he give me permission to take it out by remaining SILENT when he knew my intent but he also participated by taking some for himself. Point is Eve is not responsible for the original sin. Adam is responsible. The commandment was given to him directly. Also the part you keep point out about Adam not following his own orders is slightly off. That section man cleave unto his wife is the narrartor speaking not Adam. How in the heck would Adam know about a man leaving his father and MOTHER? Who is Adam's mom? Lol Eve? No he did not give that directive. Your responses sadly say that you don't. Lets make an analogy here. If you and your husband have a situation, know the outcome and understands he is supposed to take the lead on... how is he blamed for your ACTIONS in which you did by yourself without consulting him before doing it? You think that would fly with your man? lol. I'd bet $1,000 it wouldn't. Again Adam's fault was NOT standing with his woman when the punishment came. He didn't stand up and make good on his proclamation which probably up to this point your preacher told you that the man cleave unto his woman was a directive of "God" when it's from Adam himself. He didn't follow his own orders. It seems as if you are making a case while using a bad sermon as the back drop. CLEARLY you're not reading Genesis 3 by the letter. It's obvious. Genesis 3:2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Now wait a minute... It shows here that not only did the woman get the memo she knew where it came from. We never see in the story where she got it from but we cant say she got it from Adam. When asked about the tree she doesn't say Adam hath said... she states "God" hath said. Go read your bible. Clearly shows the woman got the memo and the outcome. Read above too. Don't say you read when it shows you haven't. Adam stated they were one flesh and he cowered down like a little girl when it came time for him to stand for his woman. That's the problem. You're not even a factor in this convo. I just quoted your ramblings for the hell of it. lol Listen sistahs (and other's) if you are a christian start reading your bible's for yourselves concerning this matter. You will then see #1 Adam made the proclamation Genesis 2:23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. [/b] which he did not live up to. #2 Eve knew the directive, outcome and who it came from Genesis 3:2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. #3 The serpent issue is NOT the beginning of feminism per the story its actually the END of it if the feminist agenda is to be on equal ground with the man. It states as punishment for the woman Genesis 316Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.So we can gather up to that point the woman's desire was NOT to they husband and he did NOT rule over thee. Reading is essential. Simple. Can't be off the wall when its being quoted verbatim.[/quote] |
|
|
|
Post by nsync on May 14, 2010 10:23:17 GMT -5
Exalt for the point in red because I think it's valid
|
|
|
|
Post by Mrs. Eyes on May 14, 2010 19:56:46 GMT -5
Your responses sadly say that you don't. Lets make an analogy here. If you and your husband have a situation, know the outcome and understands he is supposed to take the lead on... how is he blamed for your ACTIONS in which you did by yourself without consulting him before doing it? You think that would fly with your man? lol. I'd bet $1,000 it wouldn't. Again Adam's fault was NOT standing with his woman when the punishment came. He didn't stand up and make good on his proclamation which probably up to this point your preacher told you that the man cleave unto his woman was a directive of "God" when it's from Adam himself. He didn't follow his own orders. It seems as if you are making a case while using a bad sermon as the back drop. CLEARLY you're not reading Genesis 3 by the letter. It's obvious. Genesis 3:2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Now wait a minute... It shows here that not only did the woman get the memo she knew where it came from. We never see in the story where she got it from but we cant say she got it from Adam. When asked about the tree she doesn't say Adam hath said... she states "God" hath said. Go read your bible. Clearly shows the woman got the memo and the outcome. Read above too. Don't say you read when it shows you haven't. Adam stated they were one flesh and he cowered down like a little girl when it came time for him to stand for his woman. That's the problem. You're not even a factor in this convo. I just quoted your ramblings for the hell of it. lol Listen sistahs (and other's) if you are a christian start reading your bible's for yourselves concerning this matter. You will then see #1 Adam made the proclamation Genesis 2:23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. [/b] which he did not live up to. #2 Eve knew the directive, outcome and who it came from Genesis 3:2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. #3 The serpent issue is NOT the beginning of feminism per the story its actually the END of it if the feminist agenda is to be on equal ground with the man. It states as punishment for the woman Genesis 316Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.So we can gather up to that point the woman's desire was NOT to they husband and he did NOT rule over thee. Reading is essential. Simple. Can't be off the wall when its being quoted verbatim. [/quote] I didn't read, so I can admit that. But I wanted clarification. Now with that being said, she made her choice too, so she is also held accountable. |
|
Rotfl! Outtie that is the best response yet to the whole fall of humanity being placed on woman/Eve!
{=}http://s2.images.proboards.com/cool.gif{/=}
