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Post by nsync on Apr 5, 2010 15:12:33 GMT -5
*Pardon the interruption....* Ghost why you so e-sexy? You need to turn all that e-swagger down...up in here. This iiiiiiiissss the religious section, you know.  *carry on folks
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 5, 2010 15:24:46 GMT -5
You definitely made it clear that you side with the rebellion. But, it also sounds like you're saying that neither those who submit, nor those who rebel know the Truth in total. Yup thats about right Umm naw they test what they see. They were the scientist before the scientist. Naw that's not what they do. That was a reach. Lets see where you are taking this. Yeah I see Naw go and read what I said. Certainly you would but I stated this "This is attempted so that the designers seeing disorder in what they have built manifest to patch the loopholes and reveal the truth." Verbatim It's irrelevant because again your methodology is wrong. Your intent is clear certainly. Nonetheless it will be unsuccessful because you haven't did what I asked of you which is to read. I'll show below. Again this question doesn't make sense only within the logic you have built up. Furthermore anybody can be in the rebellion. It is your Ori who decides if you are ready not those who practice. Like you can't apply your logic to this. Well maybe in some cases where "worship" has replaced practice. If you don't read up... this convo will be over like real quick. No I do not because if you submit truly submit then you are doing so without question. It is the question which leads to the rebellion. Let me give you sum help here for your task so we can make this fair... How about you ask me... "Vudu do people in the Rebellion submit in some ways or are they totally rebelling?" |
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Post by Gee-Are on Apr 5, 2010 17:05:42 GMT -5
Umm naw they test what they see. They were the scientist before the scientist. So let me rephrase...Are you saying the rebellers have obtained more truth because they don't indiscriminately trust the information they've been given? Your intent is clear certainly. Nonetheless it will be unsuccessful because you haven't did what I asked of you which is to read. I'll show below. As long as you see my intent to honestly understand your position, great! Honestly, I've begun to read some of the concepts and it would be a while before I could respond, if it's expected for me to read ALL of it. So, I'm attempting to hold this conversation while reading. Trust that I have no ulterior motive or gotcha techniques I'm trying to employ. No I do not because if you submit truly submit then you are doing so without question. It is the question which leads to the rebellion. So it is your belief that the mere asking of the question is rebellion, correct? The fact that the idea of this thread was posted and anyone who participated in the discussion, to you, was enough to make us all implicit in the rebellion? Is that right? Let me give you sum help here for your task so we can make this fair... How about you ask me... "Vudu do people in the Rebellion submit in some ways or are they totally rebelling?" I'll bite...the above question is posed to you. I believe I have a part of the answer, but I'll let you give yours before I pontificate. |
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Post by Gee-Are on Apr 5, 2010 17:25:47 GMT -5
*Pardon the interruption....* Ghost why you so e-sexy? You need to turn all that e-swagger down...up in here. This iiiiiiiissss the religious section, you know. *carry on folks Well thank you. As you say we are in the Relig section, and I probably shouldn't have wandered into it whilst sporting that new e-Sex Panther cologne... "You know 60% of the time it works EVERY time.  " I thought I'd try it, and the results have been fantastic! PM volume has grown by 225% all due to e-Sex Panther! - GR
* Disclaimer: GR only had 1 PM from GorgeousNGreen titled, "Welcome to OnOlympus Alumni message board!" *
^^^not true, didn't even get that message. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 5, 2010 17:29:24 GMT -5
So let me rephrase...Are you saying the rebellers have obtained more truth because they don't indiscriminately trust the information they've been given? Naw every instance of this path has some sort of Oracle that foundation is chance. This is where your reading would help you. See where I stand we want people to read and research for themselves. Okay Okay Not totally because the question has to be backed up with action. Questioning is apart of the rebellion certainly... it must exist before the action is taken certainly... Just as the thought must exist before the action. If you question without practice. you've only gone half way. If you think without doing you've gone half way. Furthermore most in here didn't question but moreso affirm what they have been taught. They submitted to what is thought of as truth. Yes those in the rebellion submit to the Universal Laws of Existence but at the same time to seek to break these laws. The rebellion centers around being able to exist and not be bound by these laws. To exist outside of the confines. The first step is noticing the laws. The next step is finding out who helped you survive them and exist within them. Thats where the sacred feminine comes in. This is why there is no coincedence that most if not all ATR's have a feminine patron who is creation itself. No matter how the stories change. No matter if patriarchal spirit enters IFA (never would in Vudu because the Mambo's are to powerful) the sacred feminine aspect is always there. |
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Post by Gee-Are on Apr 5, 2010 20:00:52 GMT -5
Naw every instance of this path has some sort of Oracle that foundation is chance. This is where your reading would help you. See where I stand we want people to read and research for themselves. >>>>Currently reading, "The Sacred Ifa Oracle" [Epega/Neimark] That's why I'm saying attempting to hold convo while reading. Not totally because the question has to be backed up with action. Questioning is apart of the rebellion certainly... it must exist before the action is taken certainly... Just as the thought must exist before the action. If you question without practice. you've only gone half way. If you think without doing you've gone half way. Furthermore most in here didn't question but moreso affirm what they have been taught. They submitted to what is thought of as truth. Yes those in the rebellion submit to the Universal Laws of Existence but at the same time to seek to break these laws. The rebellion centers around being able to exist and not be bound by these laws. To exist outside of the confines. The first step is noticing the laws. The next step is finding out who helped you survive them and exist within them. Thats where the sacred feminine comes in. This is why there is no coincedence that most if not all ATR's have a feminine patron who is creation itself. No matter how the stories change. No matter if patriarchal spirit enters IFA (never would in Vudu because the Mambo's are to powerful) the sacred feminine aspect is always there. ATR?? Please clarify... Is a Mambo like a babalawo? |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 5, 2010 22:58:55 GMT -5
>>>>Currently reading, "The Sacred Ifa Oracle" [Epega/ Neimark] That's why I'm saying attempting to hold convo while reading. Noooooo get rid of anything written or backed by Neimark. He is ripping IFA apart. This guy is about money and doesn't respect the natural progression of what is in place so he attempted to make his own way. He is the modern day Aliester Crowley with his Book of the Law. Just as Crowley sought to add onto Obeah with the Wanga and Thelema shit so to has Neimark done some very very uncustomary things to IFA. That's how the beast is though... Either they write it off or seek to bastardize what we build to fit their standards and understanding. He isn't a real Babalawo and his wife isn't a real Iyanifa. I mean these mofo have a IFA College.. wtf. I'd say grab Dr. Reginald Crosley's The Vodou Quantum Leap if anything. Though different from IFA it would be a far better read then any of the garbage Neimark says. African Traditional Religion just a general term as you will see there are really no "religions" but more so just a way of life. A Mambo is the equivalent of an Iyanifa. Mambo's are priestesses in Vudu. Hougons are the Priest. Mambo's are very very powerful in Vudu. I'm not sure of an Iyanifa's role anymore in IFA. In IFA from what I have gathered.... The patriarchal way of things has made it like the church so to speak but with a different twist. IFA in it purest form was a matriarchal system. Iyanifa's ( Mother is IFA) are not allowed to "see" Odu. Many reasons have been given is to why this is done . Mainly because ODU itself is the sacred feminine. That if a women was to "see" Odu it would be unbalanced. That the male energy must balance the equation for the message to come through clear. I will say this.. IFA is a very thorough craft. A true Babalawo is probably the most thoroughly trained male practitioner in spirituality or occult practice. Stating that it gives more credence to the female personification of the sacred feminine as allll of these aspects (and there are ALOT of them) are within HER from birth. IFA is argubly one of the oldest systems on the planet. It has influenced... Hinduism (Pre-Aryan and Vedic Text), I-Ching( Are 8 Odu half of the sacred feminine) , Zero Theory( As Odu starts with Absolute Zero), Every African influenced religion in the Caribbean and south America at its core are IFA, Spiritual Baptist (IFA fused with Christianity) Obeah and Wanga, even paths in Ancient Kemet. Maat and Odu go hand and hand. .... |
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Post by Gee-Are on Apr 6, 2010 6:47:23 GMT -5
Noooooo get rid of anything written or backed by Neimark. He is ripping IFA apart. This guy is about money and doesn't respect the natural progression of what is in place so he attempted to make his own way. He is the modern day Aliester Crowley with his Book of the Law. Just as Crowley sought to add onto Obeah with the Wanga and Thelema shit so to has Neimark done some very very uncustomary things to IFA. That's how the beast is though... Either they write it off or seek to bastardize what we build to fit their standards and understanding. He isn't a real Babalawo and his wife isn't a real Iyanifa. I mean these mofo have a IFA College.. wtf. I'd say grab Dr. Reginald Crosley's The Vodou Quantum Leap if anything. Though different from IFA it would be a far better read then any of the garbage Neimark says. So this is what the book says... "Now, for the first time, all 256 sacred stories of this ancient oral tradition have been translated into English by Dr. Afolabi Epega, a fifth-generation babalawo or Ifa priest. " Neimark apparently just wrote the preface and a brief commentary...I don't think the bulk of the book is him. Plus does it help that Neimark doesn't even recommend the book? Even though he commented on it? Plus it was endorsed by Henry Louis Gates and Iyanla Vanzant...  Is the Vodou Quantum Leap an official text? See the IFA was marketed as an official text of IFA, Vodun, Santeria, etc. in the likes of the Koran, The Bible, etc. I find it interesting, because I believed it was mostly an oral tradition, but to me that was suspect, because if anything can twist or maim an original thought it is leaving it up to oral traditions, right? ETA: Found "Vodou Quantum Leap" on google books, so I might check it out... Vodou Quantum Leap bookbooks.google.com/books?id=ptSINSgylEIC&dq=the+vodou+quantum+leap&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=6B-7S-jKIJLMngfj04TNCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAwAfrican Traditional Religion just a general term as you will see there are really no "religions" but more so just a way of life. Cool, got it. A Mambo is the equivalent of an Iyanifa. Mambo's are priestesses in Vudu. Hougons are the Priest. Mambo's are very very powerful in Vudu. I'm not sure of an Iyanifa's role anymore in IFA. In IFA from what I have gathered.... The patriarchal way of things has made it like the church so to speak but with a different twist. IFA in it purest form was a matriarchal system. Iyanifa's ( Mother is IFA) are not allowed to "see" Odu. Many reasons have been given is to why this is done . Mainly because ODU itself is the sacred feminine. That if a women was to "see" Odu it would be unbalanced. That the male energy must balance the equation for the message to come through clear. Ok...but I thought Olodumare was without sex, an androgynous spirit. So why would it connect with either female or male more effectively? I will say this.. IFA is a very thorough craft. A true Babalawo is probably the most thoroughly trained male practitioner in spirituality or occult practice. Stating that it gives more credence to the female personification of the sacred feminine as allll of these aspects (and there are ALOT of them) are within HER from birth. IFA is argubly one of the oldest systems on the planet. It has influenced... Hinduism (Pre-Aryan and Vedic Text), I-Ching( Are 8 Odu half of the sacred feminine) , Zero Theory( As Odu starts with Absolute Zero), Every African influenced religion in the Caribbean and south America at its core are IFA, Spiritual Baptist (IFA fused with Christianity) Obeah and Wanga, even paths in Ancient Kemet. Maat and Odu go hand and hand. .... Okay, if that is the case. I know you stated how you feel it has been corrupted, but if it is the ORIGINAL influencer, why specialize in the Vodou denomination? Why not stick with true IFA? |
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Post by Chal™ on Apr 6, 2010 15:23:37 GMT -5
This is a very interesting topic
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Post by Gee-Are on Apr 6, 2010 15:25:24 GMT -5
This is a very interesting topic Well what are your thoughts? |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 6, 2010 16:10:45 GMT -5
Noooooo get rid of anything written or backed by Neimark. He is ripping IFA apart. This guy is about money and doesn't respect the natural progression of what is in place so he attempted to make his own way. He is the modern day Aliester Crowley with his Book of the Law. Just as Crowley sought to add onto Obeah with the Wanga and Thelema shit so to has Neimark done some very very uncustomary things to IFA. That's how the beast is though... Either they write it off or seek to bastardize what we build to fit their standards and understanding. He isn't a real Babalawo and his wife isn't a real Iyanifa. I mean these mofo have a IFA College.. wtf. I'd say grab Dr. Reginald Crosley's The Vodou Quantum Leap if anything. Though different from IFA it would be a far better read then any of the garbage Neimark says. Don't matter who endorsed it. Phillip Neimark is put down as a co- author. It's tainted period. Epega supposedly left his Igba from his grandfather with Neimark. It's tainted. Neimark was a Lucumi/Santeria initiate and was put in his place. He didn't like that so he bastardized everything. Furthermore... there isn't an "Official" anything Odu. That's not an IFA bible if that's what you are trying to say. No such thing exist. The Vodou Quantum Leap is a nice entry level book for consumption. Far better than anything Neimark can push forward anyday. Why is Oral tradition suspect? I think you should The 16 Manifestations and the infinite possibilities SPEAK through the Oracle. The sacred feminine energy is the mouthpiece. Ol Now I must reiterate I'm not a practitioner of IFA. I'm familiar with the system. I have the utmost respect for the system. I offer my interpretation of it. Here is a quote... All that was, is, or ever will be, is born through Odú, including the Orisa and their sacred ase. Odú is the oracular utterance of the spirits, the divine wisdom of all those who have come before and those who have yet to be born. Uninhibited by space and time, Odú is the original language of the Ancestors and Orisa..... I had to chuckle at denomination. I guess Vudu is the pentecostal version of IFA huh? lol Notice I said arguably one of the earliest systems. In Vudu Ifa Odu is called Afa Odu. The Odu oracle is what links the two. Both use it. You will find either fragments or its entirety of this oracle throughout most spiritual work. I choose (though not yet allowed) Vudu because the balance of structure. IFA is a very very structured practice. Or shall I say has become that way over the last 6-700 years. In no disrespectful manner at all towards that system Vudu on the other hand incorporates a happy medium between structure and chaos.... between the seen and unseen. between darkness and light. That is what draws me to it. This balance is seen allll the way up through. |
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Post by nsync on Apr 6, 2010 19:29:24 GMT -5
Ghost exalt VP exalt. If you all could only hear me through the screen. I am screaming FINALLY... sigh... |
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Post by nsync on Apr 6, 2010 19:31:08 GMT -5
ROTFLMBO @ e-Sex Panther cologne. lololololol No PMs for you. You are hardly here anymore.  *Pardon the interruption....* Ghost why you so e-sexy? You need to turn all that e-swagger down...up in here. This iiiiiiiissss the religious section, you know. *carry on folks Well thank you. As you say we are in the Relig section, and I probably shouldn't have wandered into it whilst sporting that new e-Sex Panther cologne... "You know 60% of the time it works EVERY time. " I thought I'd try it, and the results have been fantastic! PM volume has grown by 225% all due to e-Sex Panther! - GR
* Disclaimer: GR only had 1 PM from GorgeousNGreen titled, "Welcome to OnOlympus Alumni message board!" *
^^^not true, didn't even get that message. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 6, 2010 20:19:50 GMT -5
Ghost exalt VP exalt. If you all could only hear me through the screen. I am screaming FINALLY... sigh... Before you give Ghost a >>  Understand everything I am saying right now was stated 2 years ago in this section on this board Yall ninja's don't read lol. Like I said go back read the post. Hell go read the 7 Stages of Darkness Thread. Go read my intial post in the Is God Regional thread. Anybody who has read what VP writes knows he venerates the Sacred Feminine. You're exposing yourself madam.  Good Night. |
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Post by nsync on Apr 6, 2010 20:33:51 GMT -5
ROFLMBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @ I'm still exalting you and there's nothing you can do about it. Ghost exalt VP exalt. If you all could only hear me through the screen. I am screaming FINALLY... sigh... Before you give Ghost a >> Understand everything I am saying right now was stated 2 years ago in this section on this board Yall ninja's don't read lol. Like I said go back read the post. Hell go read the 7 Stages of Darkness Thread. Go read my intial post in the Is God Regional thread. Anybody who has read what VP writes knows he venerates the Sacred Feminine. You're exposing yourself madam. Good Night. |
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Post by Gee-Are on Apr 9, 2010 14:35:06 GMT -5
Furthermore... there isn't an "Official" anything Odu. That's not an IFA bible if that's what you are trying to say. No such thing exist. Why is that? Why is there nothing I can reference to understand the tenets of Vudu, IFA, Santeria, etc.? I've still looked at a few of the passages of the Sacred IFA Oracle, (since I have it) and it looks like a bunch of testimonies of a situation and how someone overcame it with some sort of accompanying recipe...interesting. I guess I would like to know the Odu explanation of creation, and maybe it's in the Voudou Quantum Leap and I haven't gotten there yet, just started it; the explanation for inherited moral guideline and connection with truth. I saw some of that in Voudou Quantum Leap. Why is Oral tradition suspect? For someone simply looking to gain knowledge of the traditions, wouldn't it be harder to trust the oral history because it was susceptible to change and influence? I know there is the same danger with written history, but at least a standard could be agreed upon, right? Then again, that could be whole point of Odu traditions is something that changes regularly. The 16 Manifestations and the infinite possibilities SPEAK through the Oracle. The sacred feminine energy is the mouthpiece. Ol Now I must reiterate I'm not a practitioner of IFA. I'm familiar with the system. I have the utmost respect for the system. I offer my interpretation of it. Here is a quote... All that was, is, or ever will be, is born through Odú, including the Orisa and their sacred ase. Odú is the oracular utterance of the spirits, the divine wisdom of all those who have come before and those who have yet to be born. Uninhibited by space and time, Odú is the original language of the Ancestors and Orisa.....I had to chuckle at denomination. I guess Vudu is the pentecostal version of IFA huh? lol I thought you'd get a kick out of that. Notice I said arguably one of the earliest systems. In Vudu Ifa Odu is called Afa Odu. The Odu oracle is what links the two. Both use it. You will find either fragments or its entirety of this oracle throughout most spiritual work. I choose (though not yet allowed) Vudu because the balance of structure. IFA is a very very structured practice. Or shall I say has become that way over the last 6-700 years. In no disrespectful manner at all towards that system Vudu on the other hand incorporates a happy medium between structure and chaos.... between the seen and unseen. between darkness and light. That is what draws me to it. This balance is seen allll the way up through. What do you mean, not yet allowed? |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 10, 2010 22:19:07 GMT -5
Why is that? Why is there nothing I can reference to understand the tenets of Vudu, IFA, Santeria, etc.? Because the only thing that is absolute is the energy. I told you earlier the Orisha's and Loa are only the tip of the ice berg. Here is an example.... In Benin and Togo as well. Vudu only has Rada Loa. In the America's and Haiti there exist Petro Loa and some initiations are different. Both use the same energy. A Haitian Hougon uses an Asson to make the AFa Odu "speak".. No such tool is used in Benin or Togo by Bokonon's (Hougon). A Bokor uses NOTHING but the force. You have to understand you are asking for a book for which has no book. Odu exist without Odu. The constant never changes... the manifestations do. The constant always remains the same whether out front or hidden... That is the sacred feminine energy is the all. Again you are asking for a book of which has no book. In the end with Vudu, IFA, AKAN, etc you see "dieties". They are compartmentalization's of the force. It is protection two ways... One from "others" who know how to use it farrrr better than we do and also to protect ourselves from its power. If you get rid of all the Orisha's alll of the Loa the Nkisis all of the Odu's by name.... the energy still exist. Bokors use no Loa nor names for the force. Obeahmen and Women use no loa or orishas or names for the force. Paloero's most times ONLY use the force. The Dark energy. Total chaos. This is why all of the aforementioned are feared. |
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Post by denounced on Apr 19, 2010 14:02:14 GMT -5
names of the force, not seen have I, off to the death star, the emperor I must fight. LOL!!!
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 21, 2010 8:01:17 GMT -5
names of the force, not seen have I, off to the death star, the emperor I must fight. LOL!!! I can dig ya joke but you have to understand the beast puts the knowledge in the movies for ritual parody. They do the same in their "secret" orgs as well. In IFA you have kolanuts used for divination which have always been called before any movies were even made Obi Abata. These are used or thrown for the ancestors to speak or even for your own Ori to manifest. The beast takes the concept which you think he is pulling out of his ass and puts it in his movies and calls him Obi Wan KenOBI. Also a play on Obeah as well. They also used the Jinn which is a preislamic concept as well. Dr. Facilier in the princess and the frog again is ritual parody of Papa Guede from Vudu the gatekeeper at the crossroads between death and life. Those are but two examples of the parody but the Dark energy and matter are real. So much so your churches, synagogues, and mosque preach against them. So existence or lack thereof isn't an argument here.... only the intent. Can you say the same? |
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Post by denounced on Apr 30, 2010 7:47:27 GMT -5
The communion ritul is not a parody. It is handed down by Jesus the Christ, God in the flesh to do in rememberance of His death. I do not deny the presence of evil, nor do I deny the reality of what these movies try to pass along to its viewers. I do not dismiss the existence, but I dismiss it a being a basis for truth.
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