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Post by Julie Art on Mar 15, 2010 21:36:25 GMT -5
Since the topic of this thread is who created your creator, and since I'm a Christian, it makes perfect sense to use the Bible for MY creator. For those who don't believe, it won't make sense for you. But the topic is who created YOUR your creator, so for me, I will continue to reference the Bible.
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 15, 2010 21:49:13 GMT -5
I see what it meant the people living in that area specifically. Eden based on what is denoted in the scriptures is in the east right? To my knowledge it is thought to have been in Mesopotamia (sp). Either way I think it's interesting. I re-read my paraphrase and I'm still not seeing how you came to that conclusion. It is talking about the human race dwelling or living in certain lands. What chapter and versus Outtie? |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 15, 2010 22:50:06 GMT -5
I guess I see how that could come off as an insult. Unpopular thought: In my opinion as a Christian I must say, out of all the religious people I have come across even some non traditional religions we Christians on a large scale are some of the most judgement hostile(not to mention closed minded) people around. The complete and utter irony of that is Jesus' ministry was based on Love first and teaching second. I think no question is too big to ask as long as the questions is out of love and respect. Likewise, I enjoyed reading the responses in this thread. To be fair, Christianity being a dominant belief system, is uniquely subject to the dual problems of disproportionate criticism and being impugned (as a whole) by the actions of a few. It is an easy if not convenient target. Allow any other belief system to gain this prominence (and the subsequent criticism) and I wonder if they might not all be as judgement adverse as we are.
I think it's ironic too, but ironic because people speak so vehemently against Christianity when Jesus' ministry was indeed based on love first. |
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 15, 2010 23:07:52 GMT -5
I should have specified the Garden of Eden . Genesis 2:8 Based on the river borders the garden does not point to Africa but the middle East. What chapter and versus Outtie? It does say that in the garden that God planted eastward in Eden he put the man he formed. But, if you continue to read 10-14, it talks about how a river went out of Eden to water the garden, the 4 rivers that come from it, and how the 2nd river does compasseth the whole land of Ethopia. That river is called Gihon. And consequently, Ethopia is where science found "Lucy" and marks the place with the oldest civilization. The oldest human inhabitaed area. Makes sense to me! |
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Mar 16, 2010 11:01:28 GMT -5
I should have specified the Garden of Eden . Genesis 2:8 Based on the river borders the garden does not point to Africa but the middle East. It does say that in the garden that God planted eastward in Eden he put the man he formed. But, if you continue to read 10-14, it talks about how a river went out of Eden to water the garden, the 4 rivers that come from it, and how the 2nd river does compasseth the whole land of Ethopia. That river is called Gihon. And consequently, Ethopia is where science found "Lucy" and marks the place with the oldest civilization. The oldest human inhabitaed area. Makes sense to me! And to me, thanks for the breakdown lady! Exhalt! |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 16, 2010 11:40:15 GMT -5
Jesus was critcized, he was mocked...spat upon and even crucified. He never said that because of those things that we should be hostile nor judgemental. He actually spoke against it. Although we are not perfect Jesus was... We shouldn't make excuses.
See the Voodooist thread. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Mar 16, 2010 12:18:32 GMT -5
Since God created everything maybe there are some aspects of science we have not discovered yet like how the universe is expanding. I barely can get over the fact that science says earth is the lucky planet out of many known planets and a gazillion possible planets. Ive finally wrapped my mind around dinosaurs actually existing...the not existing and that dolphins used to walk on land. Therefore I am soooooo not ready to delve into the concept of a multiverse. Nonono see with science there are so many rabit holes. But with religion there are too...really they are the similar constructs aren't they? God created everything...including science. I've said it before Religion and science ...last common ancestor=God. When is it said that God created everything, are you going by the account in Genesis? If so we can kinda destroy that argument. The major river coming through Ethiopia into Kemet is the Blue Nile which feeds into the White Nile. These Rivers flow north and do not start in the middle east. This is why the biblical story has holes amongst other things. The Nile flows north coming from the Uganda area maybe even deeper. Life didn't start in the middle east |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Mar 16, 2010 12:42:20 GMT -5
Per the biblical account it does. AkAD and I were speaking in terms of Genesis. I am going by the accounts given here. You have not told me who you worship so I can't go with that account. Once again I am left to joust with a blindfold. I can only talk from the perspective I know, learned and believe. When is it said that God created everything, are you going by the account in Genesis? If so we can kinda destroy that argument. The major river coming through Ethiopia into Kemet is the Blue Nile which feeds into the White Nile. These Rivers flow north and do not start in the middle east. This is why the biblical story has holes amongst other things. The Nile flows north coming from the Uganda area maybe even deeper. Life didn't start in the middle eastYou can believe what you want.... The Nile is the major river going up into Kemet. The Nile Flows North. The Oldest Bones are found in the interior of Africa. You have your book saying one thing and we have geography and biology saying another. I think that is a loss for you. Arbitrary on what I "believe". No straw man arguments for you my dear. I need not even state a word to debunk where you stand. It's rather easy. Oh and stop quoting wikipedia. lol |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Mar 16, 2010 12:43:51 GMT -5
Egyptians (Kemetians) say their ancestors came from the Valley at the Mountain of the Moon where Hapi dwells.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Mar 16, 2010 12:45:24 GMT -5
The Blue Nile flows north out of Ethiopia. The Blue Nile doesn't come into Ethiopia.
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 16, 2010 12:47:16 GMT -5
I will have to go back and reference my study bible, it is at home and I'm at work. But, it says God placed Adam and Eve in the eastern part of the garden to live, it doesn't say that they were created there. Matter of fact, it doesn't really state where they were created, but whose image they were created out of and what they were created out of. And Cush civilization, if I remember from my African, and African American studies courses from undergrad, is in Africa. I can't remember if Cush is the modern day Ethophia or not (took these classes over 5 years ago, lol!) and if I remember correctly, the Egyptians migrated from the Cush civilization (like I said its been years, and my memory is foggy). But regardless of name change or not, geographics haven't changed. If you look at where Ethopia is located, along with the other lands that the river from Eden split into 4 other rivers, they are all georgraphically close. My study bible states that Ghion encompasseth all of Ethopia. And science has the connection of the oldest inhabitied area being Ethopia. I mean, to me, it is all interconnected. To each their own though. This is what I have in red for the scripture. There is no mention of Ethiopia. However there is a mention of Cush(which I believe the Greeks called Ethiopia<not the same as modern day Ethiopia>which is believed to be modern day Egypt and Sudan. Still Africa right, but not where Lucy was found. That is a specific area where many prehistoric human remains were found. However what's more important, IMO, is that while googling the river Pishon and Gihon mentioned in Genesis I realize that there is a confusion about where these rivers are todate. They are thought to be in the middle east. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PishonHowever there is a mention of the Tigris and Euphrates. Both from Turkey to the middle east. Now in that chapter is says that these four rivers flowed FROM Eden and they watered the garden. This would imply that Eden was the source. Based on these two rivers alone there is no evidence that Eden was in Africa...at least not the Garden. Therefore Adam and Eve were not created in Africa. They are most likey from the Middle east or even...Turkey? Im just going by that chapter. However, there is much research on the Garden of Eden which suggests that it was in Mesopotamia based on geographical markers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MesopotamiaTherefore based on Genesis human life began in the Middle East and not African. Also the overwhelming majority of the Bible cronicles the Jewish people (and who they came in contact with) general not black/african folks anyhow. That doesn't seem far fetched to me that Adam and Eve would be of middle eastern descent just like Jews anyhow. Genesis 2:8-14 (NIV)
8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.It does say that in the garden that God planted eastward in Eden he put the man he formed. But, if you continue to read 10-14, it talks about how a river went out of Eden to water the garden, the 4 rivers that come from it, and how the 2nd river does compasseth the whole land of Ethopia. That river is called Gihon. And consequently, Ethopia is where science found "Lucy" and marks the place with the oldest civilization. The oldest human inhabitaed area. Makes sense to me! |
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 16, 2010 12:55:49 GMT -5
Outtie, you can't "force or coeirce (sp?)". That is where I have a problem. If I have to do this, are you really accepting the word of Jesus Christ because you truly believe in your heart John 3:16, or because you just saying it so you can eat lunch that day? Have you really done the work of the Lord then? There is no account in the bible were Jesus forced or coierced (sp?) anyone. That is my whole issue. And by stating this, no one is saying or not saying they think vodoo is evil, nor do I think anyone's opinion on this practice has miraclously changed. Just a thought. Initially I was not talking about responses to criticism. You brought that into the conversation. In general I said that I have found we Christians are some of the most judgemental, hostile and closeminded people. Take out hostility and there is not need to mention critiscm. I also said SOME of the MOST. Doesn't exclude other groups. However, what I have seen across denominations and sectors is that we say we have the one and only way to the Truth . It is one of our primary responsibility to give it to others either freely or upon demand. With giving that truth comes this sense of superiority that we are right and others are fundamentally wrong. Therefore I agree with you. It does have to do with dominance. This is seen in all dominating groups from race...sex and now obviously in religion. Still it's an observation of behavior that is contridictory to the origins of the religion and beliefs we profess. Lastly, I honestly don't get what others are not getting in the Voodoo thread. Most devout Christians see Voodoo as a form of witchcraft or evil worship. ACTUALLY many OOians did when Voodoo FIRST came to the board. So it is not bizarre that these people would say "we will help you if you turn away from the evil (that we think may be the cause of this earthquake anyway)" This has been a theme of organized christianity for ages...from the crusades...to slavery right on down to that article...folks have interpreted that it is their Christian duty to openly and actively convert other because the way they are doing it is wrong and that we have the true one and only salvation. That's what makes us different. That's what makes us distinct from other religions (amongst other things) and that's what brings about our judgemental tone IMO. And it is not cool beans whatsoever. I'm not justifying cause and effect, I'm just observing it. We are judgemental and we are judged. We are criticized and we criticize. I don't think there is anything uniquely rigid about Christians or Christianity that isn't likewise exposed from adherants to other belief systems when their system's validity is challenged. They simply have the luxury of avoiding most challenges and character assassination.
See the Voodooist thread. |
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 16, 2010 12:58:18 GMT -5
I have a different perception based off what I studied. I will not stop quoting Wikipedia. Most often I check at least two other places before I accept what wikipedia is saying. However, I quote it becaus emost often it is written in a style most can understand. However, I want to say this I know where bones were found. I know what science says. However, I am talking to other Christians on this one. Our Bible states that Adam and Eve were placed in a land some where in the Middle East. There is no getting around this. Whether you , I or the milkman believes it is another topic. But for the record this is the story of Genesis and it's about time that we know it for what it is. Adam and Eve first man and woman in the Middle East not Africa.You can believe what you want.... The Nile is the major river going up into Kemet. The Nile Flows North. The Oldest Bones are found in the interior of Africa. You have your book saying one thing and we have geography and biology saying another. I think that is a loss for you. Arbitrary on what I "believe". No straw man arguments for you my dear. I need not even state a word to debunk where you stand. It's rather easy. Oh and stop quoting wikipedia. lol |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Mar 16, 2010 12:59:52 GMT -5
I will not stop quoting Wikipedia. Most often I check at least two other places before I accept what wikipedia is saying. However, I quote it becaus emost often it is written in a style most can understand. However, I want to say this I know where bones were found. I know what science says. However, I am talking to other Christians on this one. Our Bible states that Adam and Eve were placed in a land some where in the Middle East. There is no getting around this. Whether you , I or the milkman believes it is another topic. But for the record this is the story of Genesis and it's about time that we know it for what it is. Adam and Eve first man and woman in the Middle East not Africa. Mother Alkebulon is the cradle of life and civilization. You're not making any sense. All the building blocks of life in almost every form are found in Africa. But let me throw you a bone..... When you see Ethiopia understand they are not speaking of the country but all of Africa below the Sahara. They didn't even know the original names. |
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 16, 2010 13:03:11 GMT -5
Underlined part, no one has concluded that, you assume folks have. And from your interpretation of what is read, you feel God placed them in the Middle East. That is fine for your to believe, but based off my own study, I do believe other wise. You have stated before that it is said that Eden is believed to be in the Middle East, where are you getting this from, because it isn't my bible. As Damie would say....now I see that you are moving the goals posts and that's not fair. Yeah Adam and Eve could have been created on Mars even. And now we conclude it doesn't matter now that I have pointed out a few things. The point is God put them in the Middle East and their ancestors' stories play out in the middle east. However now they appear in Africa millions of years later. Possible. If you are willing to believe it that fine, because that is your conclusion upon interpretation and not just because I say so. I am glad you followed up with me because I might have went on not even confirming what I have learned. I will have to go back and reference my study bible, it is at home and I'm at work. But, it says God placed Adam and Eve in the eastern part of the garden to live, it doesn't say that they were created there. Matter of fact, it doesn't really state where they were created, but whose image they were created out of and what they were created out of. And Cush civilization, if I remember from my African, and African American studies courses from undergrad, is in Africa. I can't remember if Cush is the modern day Ethophia or not (took these classes over 5 years ago, lol!) and if I remember correctly, the Egyptians migrated from the Cush civilization (like I said its been years, and my memory is foggy). But regardless of name change or not, geographics haven't changed. If you look at where Ethopia is located, along with the other lands that the river from Eden split into 4 other rivers, they are all georgraphically close. My study bible states that Ghion encompasseth all of Ethopia. And science has the connection of the oldest inhabitied area being Ethopia. I mean, to me, it is all interconnected. To each their own though. |
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 16, 2010 13:06:43 GMT -5
I will not stop quoting Wikipedia. Most often I check at least two other places before I accept what wikipedia is saying. However, I quote it becaus emost often it is written in a style most can understand. However, I want to say this I know where bones were found. I know what science says. However, I am talking to other Christians on this one. Our Bible states that Adam and Eve were placed in a land some where in the Middle East. There is no getting around this. Whether you , I or the milkman believes it is another topic. But for the record this is the story of Genesis and it's about time that we know it for what it is. Adam and Eve first man and woman in the Middle East not Africa. Mother Alkebulon is the cradle of life and civilization. You're not making any sense. All the building blocks of life in almost every form are found in Africa. But let me throw you a bone..... When you see Ethiopia understand they are not speaking of the country but all of Africa below the Sahara. They didn't even know the original names. Underlined, OK, I wanted to say that is what I learned in my courses, but I couldn't remember for sure, lol! But yes, my courses did state that, and my professor was actually an African. |
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 16, 2010 13:09:09 GMT -5
Outtie, I said I do not believe in forcing or coercing anyone into my believe, and you got that from my example? You took that as being judgemental? Really? OK  This right here is what I am talking about. lol Why are you asking me this? Because I can look at things as objectively as possible and give an open opinion of even my own practices. If I criticize you or anyone else I criticize myself. I am not going to ask you if you truly accepted Jesus in your heart, because that's between you and the Lord. You have to work out your own salavation (even if you seek support from others). I am not going to look at a few things you've said and judge you based on them...oh you've had sex...you are not married. Therefore you are not a TRUE John 3:16 Christian (just an example). So that is what I am talking about in regards to judgements. They come so easily for us Christians IMO...which I am entitled to as you. I will stick to it. I like to be real. Even sometimes with myself...and it's painful. But to act like Christianity does not oppose Voodoo and other worships seen as satanic is bogus. Outtie, you can't "force or coeirce (sp?)". That is where I have a problem. If I have to do this, are you really accepting the word of Jesus Christ because you truly believe in your heart John 3:16, or because you just saying it so you can eat lunch that day? Have you really done the work of the Lord then? There is no account in the bible were Jesus forced or coierced (sp?) anyone. That is my whole issue. And by stating this, no one is saying or not saying they think vodoo is evil, nor do I think anyone's opinion on this practice has miraclously changed. Just a thought. |
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 16, 2010 13:16:12 GMT -5
Actually Outtie, you did. I was answering the orginial question with my first post about what my study bible said about Genesis, and my answer for who created the Creator was that it states before Genesis God was and always will be. You went a different direction when you stated what you thought the guide was saying about the human race. Okay you believe otherwise and that's fine with me. Other than that I am not going to pick the rest of the post apart because you did move the goal post first by talking about where they were created and then by saying that we don't know where they were created we just know where they were place. That's cool with me. If we would have started there...them being placed in Eden...then that could have saved me some time. Underlined part, no one has concluded that, you assume folks have. And from your interpretation of what is read, you feel God placed them in the Middle East. That is fine for your to believe, but based off my own study, I do believe other wise. You have stated before that it is said that Eden is believed to be in the Middle East, where are you getting this from, because it isn't my bible. |
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 16, 2010 13:19:17 GMT -5
That was my basis and I gave an example of why and used the Voodoo thread for the example. And then you asked why I'm asking YOU that question when I really wasn't. But ok Outtie. You are being sensititve and feel like people are attacking you, when I'm not seeing that at all, so I'll leave it all alone. AKAD, is that all you said? lol Outtie, I said I do not believe in forcing or coercing anyone into my believe, and you got that from my example? You took that as being judgemental? Really? OK |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Mar 16, 2010 13:19:26 GMT -5
Sigh.................................................................. okay VP. human life stems from Africa. That's what I believed two days ago, so it doesn't make it hard for me to believe it again today. lol Oh as far as Ethiopia...I did not see that in the Bible. I did see CUSH...which is thought to have included parts of Egypt and Sudan...you know Nubia. But that's not important for what I am saying. In the Bible it says that the rivers flowed from...indicating a source....Eden...which I guess per today was in Africa or Turkey or as widely believed Mesopotamia. Or which ever location supports our individual arguments best. Mother Alkebulon is the cradle of life and civilization. You're not making any sense. All the building blocks of life in almost every form are found in Africa. But let me throw you a bone..... When you see Ethiopia understand they are not speaking of the country but all of Africa below the Sahara. They didn't even know the original names. You posted from the NIV the KJV which was written earlier states Genesis 2:13And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. Don't matter same bastardization of the word. lol Stop using semantics geez. Whenever you see Ethiopia or Athiopia they are speaking of everything below the Sahara. EVERYTHING. Okay. Now lets move forward. |
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 16, 2010 13:23:26 GMT -5
Voodoo, now you going to have me go home and see if I still got notes from my African and African American classes, lol! I had a choice with my major to take that or US history/European, and I went for the first one!
I really wanna know where those notes are now.
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 16, 2010 13:41:42 GMT -5
Outtie, if I stand and tell a person who is in a desolate area where everything they used for survival is destroyed, and I give them food, water, clothes and shelter for say two weeks, and then at the end of that 2nd week I tell that person, I will no longer be able to help you if you don't except my religious belief, I mean come on. Seriously. Where they do that at in the bible? Where Jesus do that? I'm seriously asking. And I took you being sensitive because in several posts, you took the meaning that someone stated or whatever to be directed atyou, i.e. "why you asking me this question", when I wasn't. But hey, if you are smiling, great! ;D ROLFLMBO. I am not being sensative at all. WTFrap are you talking about? Im smiling over here. I will let you know when I am being sensative. This is not that time. However, I stand by what I say. To ask someone if they really believe in Jesus or if they are just saying, because you don't agree with their perspectives it is a bold assertion and comes from an place of judgement. This can not be overlooked by semantics. That was my basis and I gave an example of why and used the Voodoo thread for the example. And then you asked why I'm asking YOU that question when I really wasn't. But ok Outtie. You are being sensititve and feel like people are attacking you, when I'm not seeing that at all, so I'll leave it all alone. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Mar 16, 2010 14:00:22 GMT -5
VP so earlier means more accurate? lol Surely you are not suggesting this. You are using semantics and think nobody noticed you were using the NIV. You said Ethiopia wasn't used in Genesis. You were wrong. Take that lump and move forward. This is why I stated earlier we can't use the biblical account for this discussion because it has major holes. You can't say rivers flowed into Africa when you have the Nile River flowing north. The Longest River in the World flows north from the interior of Africa. Well for arguments sake ( as you know I do not believe there was a physical Garden of Eden) the Garden was placed East.... East of What? It was placed Eastward in Eden. So there isn't a Garden of Eden it is a Garden in Eden and from here the rivers with the 4 Heads came. All of Eden isn't a garden only in the eastern part (hence everyone seeking higher thought knowledge whose rituals are bible based go to the East). It can only be entered on the Eastern Side. So we have to find what is the point of reference that puts Eden to the East. Is it to the East of God? Or is it talking about something else.... Remember Eden existed before the Garden and never does it speak of its construction. Gotta look beneath the sheets. |
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Post by Julie Art on Mar 16, 2010 14:04:58 GMT -5
Outtie, show me in the bible, give me the book(s), chapter(s), and versus(s) where Jesus did that. What they are saying is "I will no longer be able to help you if you continue to practice that witchcraft!" They feel justified because they believe it goes against Christianity and they will be in violation if they continue to support such people. This is a typical practice. Haiti was a missionary hotspot long before the earthquake. Those missionaries were there with one purpose...conversion. Why would they change course now? This is exactly what I am talking about. Outtie, if I stand and tell a person who is in a desolate area where everything they used for survival is destroyed, and I give them food, water, clothes and shelter for say two weeks, and then at the end of that 2nd week I tell that person, I will no longer be able to help you if you don't except my religious belief, I mean come on. Seriously. Where they do that at in the bible? Where Jesus do that? I'm seriously asking. And I took you being sensitive because in several posts, you took the meaning that someone stated or whatever to be directed atyou, i.e. "why you asking me this question", when I wasn't. But hey, if you are smiling, great! ;D |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Mar 16, 2010 14:27:30 GMT -5
VP?  ? I stop reading after "take that lump and move forward" !!AY DIOS MIO!! I PUT RIGHT NEXT TO MY SCRIPTURE---- NIV. SO HOW IN THE WORLD COULD I BE ATTEMPTING TO DECEIVE? DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU? REALLY? DOES IT? I don't have time for useless debate. I don't get off on it. So I will read the rest of what you said later, but most likely I won't comment. There's nothing to say because I stated a few posts ago that I agreed with you on that particular aspect of the topic.  |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 16, 2010 14:59:10 GMT -5
My point in a nutshell: it seems unfair to single out Christians for rigidity (even if you only say "some") because we are rife with denominations (and resulting doctrines) and that the crime of any one group (i.e. those in the Voodooist thread) becomes the sin of all - "Christians".
It never seems to work in reverse though. People note that the Bible was used to justify slavery, but make no mention that the Bible was also used by Abolitionists. People will note that this group/church in Haiti thought about not serving adherants of Voo Doo... and ignore the many more made no such distinction whatsoever and simply sent aid and relief. It doesn't seem to matter how many shelters, food drives, cloth drives, soup kitchens, hospital visits, youth mentoring, etc. they do - what they get credit for is the negative.
As far as being closed minded, this one is a bit of a rub. I mean if someone asserts that Jesus never existed - how open minded am I supposed to be about that?
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Mar 16, 2010 15:39:47 GMT -5
My point in a nutshell: it seems unfair to single out Christians for rigidity (even if you only say "some") because we are rife with denominations (and resulting doctrines) and that the crime of any one group (i.e. those in the Voodooist thread) becomes the sin of all - "Christians".
-- Frederick Douglass, "The Meaning of July Fourth for the Negro"
Team don't even go there with that one. lol[/color][/quote] Fair enough if folks are close minded to Jesus. On the other hand when you have people (such as myself) who was a christian, studied the bible and used both inductive and deductive reasoning.... I have come to the conclusion considering everything that the religion is full of hogwash. |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 16, 2010 15:41:58 GMT -5
Yeah... and I actually said something similar to my husband the other day in frustration. I was like .....I rarely see specials or hear huge debates about whether Buddha existed or whatever. So I totally feel you there. However, I think because Jesus' ministry was specifically geared towards love and acceptance of all it becomes a direct contridiction to have religious practices that do not display those things. Widely accepted practices. Other religions do not have that main focus(even if it's one of their tenets) so they can escape that type of criticism, but they do have their own types or criticsm. Honestly I don't see what you all are seeing about the Voodoo thread. I just don't get passionate about...hating certain Christians, because they do what the tenets of the religion set up for them to do. Also, I think the article was slanted in a direction to paint them as being discriminatory by not focusing on why they behave in that way. But that's neither here nor there because in my experience...which I spoke from Christians that I have come across including myself at times are often judgemental and closeminded to point of hostility. That's my opinion that I have developed over years. One that it was hard to me to accept but one that I truly believe in my heart. That is why I have the views that I do about denominations and sticking to the red letters.
Jesus was clear (at least to me) about how we should treat each other, and how we should regard Him.
Can we at all be open-minded about any of that? Can we be open-minded about the Red Letters? I readily admit that I put more emphasis on them myself for precisely the reason you named (denominational interpretations) but at some point - being quote-unquote "close-minded" is unavoidable? We all have beliefs from which we will not budge |
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Post by Highly Favored on Mar 16, 2010 15:53:27 GMT -5
Interesting thread...
There is much I could say, but I am not going to, at least not yet. (lol)
I do want to say that I agree that Christians CAN be SOME of the most difficult and judgemental people on earth. I also agree that Jesus taught and demonstrated love. He was our example for what is truly Christian. When Jesus fed the multitude, the scripture does not indicate that a distinction was made between those who believed and those who believed not. He knew some were just following him for the fish and the loaves, but he allowed them to be fed anyway. As Christians, we have to learn that we are going to encounter people who need our help, who may never believe as we do, but that does not absolve us of our responsibility to help them.
However, we often say that Christians should follow Christ's example when he went about doing good, but what about when he called the Pharisees "vipers" because they were in opposition to him? Or what about when He said He was THE way THE truth and THE life and no man could come to the Father except BY HIM? This does not indicate to me that Jesus expressed a lot of tolerance for any way except Christianity. He didn't make provisions for any options. But, I keep hearing that we are supposed to show love, give, and be tolerant, ignoring the fact that, according to all we are taught, this person could die without knowing THE way. I don't think that's what we are to do at all. We have a responsibility to teach and SHOW people THE WAY. We often say a person's relationship with God is their business, but if I give a person food (that will be consumed) and don't tell them how to gain eternal life, I have done them a disservice, IMO. If we are really to be like him, we can't pick and choose. Sometimes that means speaking up at the risk of being misunderstood and labeled, just like Jesus.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Mar 16, 2010 15:59:52 GMT -5
Yeah... and I actually said something similar to my husband the other day in frustration. I was like .....I rarely see specials or hear huge debates about whether Buddha existed or whatever. So I totally feel you there. Where have you looked? If you dwell in the confines of the Judeao- Christian framework would you expect to hear anything concerning Siddharta Guatama or any splintering sects of Buddhism? Would you expect to hear the argument that Hinduism was originally IFA until the Aryans infused the Veda's and the establishment of the Caste system? That to this very day in the temple the Planet Dieties are indeed Africans? That Futo Myo and the 5 Gods of light are indeed Africans? smdh Go read my first poem in the 7 Stages of Darkness. It states "Being the speaker for the renegades and profane We refuse to be only a child of slaves with finite history and no name Torah, Bible, Koran, and Veda’s in a pile, I grab the propane Burning the bonds so you have Spiritual Freedom to create your own lane" That was almost 2 years ago. You reaching lol but I'm sure you'll say u didn't read or u wasn't here etc etc Matthew 10:34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. Wonder's if folk really know the Jesus as portrayed in the book? lol It's the history of it. Period point blank this country and every country who got spanked during the Haitian revolution Fears Vudu on a spiritual level. It wasn't Jesus who freed Haiti. Nor was it Jesus and the turn the other cheek mantra that freed our ancestors from Chattel slavery. Don't take the fake church gatherings which were used to secretly plan the escape of our people as thinking they relied on Jesus and Christianity for freedom or Moses. Stop thinking that our ancestors didn't know they had the inherent right to be free before some peckerwood preached the "gospel" to them. |
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