|
|
Post by No Screen Name on Aug 10, 2009 21:25:30 GMT -5
...to you? A LOT of people use this as a reason to allow pastors or other clergy to basically do whatever and not say anything. Example: two coworkers were discussing situations at their churches where a pastor was stealing the church's money. Both of them said that it was not the church members place to say anything about it--or even push to have him removed from the church. "The Bible says 'touch not my anointed'. It's not for the church to do anything. If anyone does anything to harm the pastor, God will deal with them. If the pastor is doing wrong, just let God sort it out". They even said that a dedicated Christian should keep tithing if the money is being misused. Needless to say, I think this is B.S.  What are your thoughts on this? And would you keep tithing to a church with a stealing pastor? |
|
|
|
Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 10, 2009 21:59:12 GMT -5
...to you? A LOT of people use this as a reason to allow pastors or other clergy to basically do whatever and not say anything. Example: two coworkers were discussing situations at their churches where a pastor was stealing the church's money. Both of them said that it was not the church members place to say anything about it--or even push to have him removed from the church. "The Bible says 'touch not my anointed'. It's not for the church to do anything. If anyone does anything to harm the pastor, God will deal with them. If the pastor is doing wrong, just let God sort it out". They even said that a dedicated Christian should keep tithing if the money is being misused. Needless to say, I think this is B.S. What are your thoughts on this? And would you keep tithing to a church with a stealing pastor? |
|
|
|
Post by No Screen Name on Aug 10, 2009 22:18:01 GMT -5
I told you my old coworkers were DUMB. Here's another thing: it says "My Anointed". This doesn't necessarily mean a prophet. MANY non-clergy, regular people have an anointing on their lives. |
|
|
|
Post by Mrs. Eyes on Aug 10, 2009 22:21:59 GMT -5
Exactly!
I believe this scripture means to not do anything malicious to God's anointed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cambist on Aug 12, 2009 8:36:33 GMT -5
It's like the verse, "Judege not lest ye be judged."
Ok....that's not saying to never speak the truth about something or even form an opinion about a person or situation. It's saying not to judge unfairly. So if you're stealing money, you're a crook. That's not a judgement....it's a statement of fact. And if it is considered a judgement then so be it....i'm ready to stand and be judged by the same criteria.
|
|
|
|
Post by LejaOMG on Aug 12, 2009 8:47:38 GMT -5
Oh goodness. I'll be back.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chal™ on Aug 12, 2009 9:13:27 GMT -5
<--- anxiously wailting for Leja. this is gonna be good.
|
|
|
|
Post by denounced on Aug 12, 2009 9:39:53 GMT -5
I don't tithe at all, but I would not stay at a church with a stealing Pastor, rather I would expose him to the whole congregation, and whoever else I could. But if he repents somewhere along the way, I would publish that as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cambist on Aug 12, 2009 10:07:15 GMT -5
I don't tithe at all, but I would not stay at a church with a stealing Pastor, rather I would expose him to the whole congregation, and whoever else I could. But if he repents somewhere along the way, I would publish that as well. Exactly. |
|
|
|
Post by LejaOMG on Aug 12, 2009 10:33:16 GMT -5
Ok, for perspective's sake, let us put this scripture in some context:
Psalm 105:15 is the Psalmist quoting God himself, saying “Do not you men touch my anointed ones, and to my prophets do nothing bad."
Now let’s break it down. Who is “you men?” To whom is God giving this command, and who are His “anointed ones” and are they the same people as “my prophets” what does “touch” mean and what exactly is “do nothing bad?”
God’s anointed (in the Old Testament sense) means the King of Israel. Period. (1 Samuel 24:6-7) The mention of “prophets” was most likely a reference to the Patriarchs. (see also Psalm 105:8-15; 1Chron. 16:15-22) New school preachers who use this scripture to refer to themselves or people who may be “anointed” in some other sense are misusing it. This whole discussion makes me think of my boy David and his encounters with Saul. David interpreted the commandment not to “touch” the King of Israel (then, Saul) to actually mean physical harm. What it does not mean is saying something about another person publicly that is true. How do we know this? Because that's exactly what David did about Saul. It was David who said he would not harm Saul at the time but he DID speak out publicly about him. Remember, David wasn’t even comfortable to pretend that he harmed Saul (when he stuck a spear in Saul’s coat as a sign that ‘I could’ve killed you, but I chose not to because of the commandment,’ he later repented because that still went against the spirit of God’s admonition. (1 Samuel 24:10- David saying “I shall not thrust out my hand against [Saul], for he is the anointed of Jehovah”)
|
|
|
|
Post by Chal™ on Aug 12, 2009 11:01:52 GMT -5
Ok, for perspective's sake, let us put this scripture in some context: Psalm 105:15 is the Psalmist quoting God himself, saying “Do not you men touch my anointed ones, and to my prophets do nothing bad." Now let’s break it down. Who is “you men?” To whom is God giving this command, and who are His “anointed ones” and are they the same people as “my prophets” what does “touch” mean and what exactly is “do nothing bad?” God’s anointed (in the Old Testament sense) means the King of Israel. Period. (1 Samuel 24:6-7) The mention of “prophets” was most likely a reference to the Patriarchs. (see also Psalm 105:8-15; 1Chron. 16:15-22) New school preachers who use this scripture to refer to themselves or people who may be “anointed” in some other sense are misusing it. This whole discussion makes me think of my boy David and his encounters with Saul. David interpreted the commandment not to “touch” the King of Israel (then, Saul) to actually mean physical harm. What it does not mean is saying something about another person publicly that is true. How do we know this? Because that's exactly what David did about Saul. It was David who said he would not harm Saul at the time but he DID speak out publicly about him. Remember, David wasn’t even comfortable to pretend that he harmed Saul (when he stuck a spear in Saul’s coat as a sign that ‘I could’ve killed you, but I chose not to because of the commandment,’ he later repented because that still went against the spirit of God’s admonition. (1 Samuel 24:10- David saying “I shall not thrust out my hand against [Saul], for he is the anointed of Jehovah”) this was well worth waiting for. Thanks a million, L |
|
|
|
Post by Highly Favored on Aug 12, 2009 12:07:31 GMT -5
Ok, for perspective's sake, let us put this scripture in some context: Psalm 105:15 is the Psalmist quoting God himself, saying “Do not you men touch my anointed ones, and to my prophets do nothing bad." Now let’s break it down. Who is “you men?” To whom is God giving this command, and who are His “anointed ones” and are they the same people as “my prophets” what does “touch” mean and what exactly is “do nothing bad?” God’s anointed (in the Old Testament sense) means the King of Israel. Period. (1 Samuel 24:6-7) The mention of “prophets” was most likely a reference to the Patriarchs. (see also Psalm 105:8-15; 1Chron. 16:15-22) New school preachers who use this scripture to refer to themselves or people who may be “anointed” in some other sense are misusing it. This whole discussion makes me think of my boy David and his encounters with Saul. David interpreted the commandment not to “touch” the King of Israel (then, Saul) to actually mean physical harm. What it does not mean is saying something about another person publicly that is true. How do we know this? Because that's exactly what David did about Saul. It was David who said he would not harm Saul at the time but he DID speak out publicly about him. Remember, David wasn’t even comfortable to pretend that he harmed Saul (when he stuck a spear in Saul’s coat as a sign that ‘I could’ve killed you, but I chose not to because of the commandment,’ he later repented because that still went against the spirit of God’s admonition. (1 Samuel 24:10- David saying “I shall not thrust out my hand against [Saul], for he is the anointed of Jehovah”) This was also quoted in I Chronicles 16:22 in reference to Israel as a nation. God reproved kings of other nations for their sake, so I don't think the anointed ones were just kings based on this reference. I believe the anointed ones are the chosen of God. However, I do believe that people misuse this quote to allow a lot of things to go on in churches that should not go on. I don't believe people who are lying, cheating, etc. as a practice are the chosen of God. I would not follow someone and support their ministry if I know they are not right and I wouldn't have a problem sharing that with anyone on a "need to know" basis. I'm not big on wholesale exposure of anyone, unless it is in a forum that they have the opportunity to defend themselves. That's just me. And (this is off the suject, but).... I do have a problem, however, with people who will not give to the ministry because "I don't know what they are doing with my money", but they stay and enjoy all the "benefits" of that ministry. To me, it then just becomes an excuse not to give. Why trust the preacher with your soul, but not your money? Money comes and goes. Your soul is all that you will have forever. |
|
|
|
Post by LejaOMG on Aug 12, 2009 12:11:44 GMT -5
God’s anointed (in the Old Testament sense) means the King of Israel. Period. (1 Samuel 24:6-7) This was also quoted in I Chronicles 16:22 in reference to Israel as a nation. God reproved kings of other nations for their sake, so I don't think the anointed ones were just kings based on this reference. I thought of the 1 Chronicles reference as well, but I didn't want to go too far away from what I understand us to be talking about here. Thanks for bringing it out anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by Highly Favored on Aug 12, 2009 12:29:58 GMT -5
This was also quoted in I Chronicles 16:22 in reference to Israel as a nation. God reproved kings of other nations for their sake, so I don't think the anointed ones were just kings based on this reference. I thought of the 1 Chronicles reference as well, but I didn't want to go too far away from what I understand us to be talking about here. Thanks for bringing it out anyway. No problem. I do have a habit of going "far away" sometimes. (lol) |
|
|
|
Post by peppermint on Aug 14, 2009 18:45:31 GMT -5
I would continue to pay tithe because the tithe is to God, not to man. This happened at a friend of mine's church when we were in high school. I could not understand his insistance on continuing to pay tithe until the past 2 years really. Too many times we become caught up in what man is doing.
I find it interesting the number of people who would walk away but on another thread, chastiment within the church was discussed and some said that they believe they themselves should determine when they've repented and gotten right with God. Understanding that those in leadership have greater accountability, why is it that we expect to do what we want to, when, how, etc but then are quick to say someone should be stepped down?
|
|
|
|
Post by Highly Favored on Aug 17, 2009 8:45:16 GMT -5
I would continue to pay tithe because the tithe is to God, not to man. This happened at a friend of mine's church when we were in high school. I could not understand his insistance on continuing to pay tithe until the past 2 years really. Too many times we become caught up in what man is doing. I find it interesting the number of people who would walk away but on another thread, chastiment within the church was discussed and some said that they believe they themselves should determine when they've repented and gotten right with God. Understanding that those in leadership have greater accountability, why is it that we expect to do what we want to, when, how, etc but then are quick to say someone should be stepped down? I don't quite remember what I said in the other thread to which you are referring or if I posted at all. However, I do want to address this. If a person has truly repented of something he has done, he is going to live differently following that repentance. I don't have a problem remaining with a pastor who may have made some mistakes, has learned from them, and has turned from them. After all, no one is perfect. Even pastors still have to deal with the flesh. They don't suddenly become exempt from Satan's attacks because they are in ministry. If anything, they become targets. However, I've got my own soul to consider and if he is doing the same things that he did before he "repented", I have a right to be concerned enough about my own salvation to walk away. What if I fall in error while he is my pastor and still doing his own thing? It is hard to convince someone of their sin and need for repentance, when you are an active participant in sin. Sometimes, walking away is the best thing we can do for someone that won't do the right thing. |
|
|
|
Post by peppermint on Aug 17, 2009 10:36:53 GMT -5
^^^This is where the difference between apologizing and repenting comes in. If the person has truly repented, then who are we? I'm sure everyone can think of things in their past that they are not proud of but can say that they are no longer that person or thing they used to be.
|
|
|
|
Post by Highly Favored on Aug 17, 2009 11:41:29 GMT -5
^^^This is where the difference between apologizing and repenting comes in. If the person has truly repented, then who are we? I'm sure everyone can think of things in their past that they are not proud of but can say that they are no longer that person or thing they used to be. I agree. However... There are consequences for everything we do. That is why it is so important for all of us, but particularly those who are in roles of spiritual leadership, to count up the cost of our actions. No matter how much a person repents, they may never regain their credibility with some people. With other people, it takes time. God is a forgiving God, and many people are forgiving people, but that doesn't always mean that things will immediately go on as they were before. Truthfully, they will probably never be the same. With that being said, if a person has truly repented and has right standing with God, that is what is most important. |
|
|
|
Post by denounced on Aug 17, 2009 15:51:27 GMT -5
I would continue to pay tithe because the tithe is to God, not to man. This happened at a friend of mine's church when we were in high school. I could not understand his insistance on continuing to pay tithe until the past 2 years really. Too many times we become caught up in what man is doing. I find it interesting the number of people who would walk away but on another thread, chastiment within the church was discussed and some said that they believe they themselves should determine when they've repented and gotten right with God. Understanding that those in leadership have greater accountability, why is it that we expect to do what we want to, when, how, etc but then are quick to say someone should be stepped down? The Tithe the Isaraelites paid was to the Lord. If you pay tithes the way they did, you must be a husbandmen of some kind. Do you bring fuits and veggies, or the finest steer to the altar? |
|
|
|
Post by peppermint on Aug 18, 2009 13:14:28 GMT -5
^^^ I do not own a garden, but I do contribute to the annual canned food drive
|
|
|
|
Post by denounced on Aug 25, 2009 9:07:14 GMT -5
Did you sell a cow to buy the canned food, and then take it to the feast?
|
|
