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Post by Nupey on Jan 25, 2008 17:14:08 GMT -5
Couldn't we all just share?
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Post by MochaD on Jan 25, 2008 17:15:28 GMT -5
Umm, errrrrrr......NAH!!!
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 17:17:16 GMT -5
see Cuba
see The fall of U.S.S.R
see Healthcare in Canada...lol
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Post by Nupey on Jan 25, 2008 17:19:28 GMT -5
It could be fixed.....
Which would you RATHER have? A "Pure" Capitalist Economy, or Socialist Economy?
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Post by No Screen Name on Jan 25, 2008 17:23:23 GMT -5
I kind of like the healthcare in Canada.
That other stuff you listed...not so much. LOL
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 17:31:07 GMT -5
It could be fixed..... Which would you RATHER have? A "Pure" Capitalist Economy, or Socialist Economy? The fundamental problem with a socialist approach to financial markets in the US is that we have a political system here called Democracy...and though that political approach isn't always practiced, it is the springboard from which capitalism thrives... Also, as black man in this country, socialism would be a slap in the face to the years of free labor as a result of slavery and complete disregard to the financial civil rights we worked so hard for (and still do).... I was a stockbroker in my early days, and as Cam can tell you, it's a provides a pretty damn good living. I think Cam would also attest that more of us need to be involved in the capitalist culture that's provided to us...not just the consumer end of it. Besides, what would black people do if we couldn't go out and spend our money recklessly like we do...socialism will not provide the means to afford 25 inch rims... |
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 17:35:40 GMT -5
I kind of like the healthcare in Canada. That other stuff you listed...not so much. LOL Well, in theory, it's not so bad, but the delivery system of a universal heathcare system like Canada's is so beaucratic and basically arrest any type of Doctor/patient relationship to a bare minimum... If you think HMO's are bad, go ask for a referral to get a second opinion from a doctor in Canada...hint: don't hold your breath. |
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Post by Troopa1911 on Jan 25, 2008 17:36:25 GMT -5
I kind of like the healthcare in Canada. That other stuff you listed...not so much. LOL |
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Post by Southie on Jan 25, 2008 17:44:58 GMT -5
If we had Universal Healthcare, do you think the quality of care would diminish? just wondering
(not anti universal healthcare)
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Post by Nupey on Jan 25, 2008 17:47:51 GMT -5
<-----Knows the Quality of Healthcare would diminish
<----Is a doctor, and knows that if he had NO incentive to learn more, or make more, he would do a mediocre job
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Post by Troopa1911 on Jan 25, 2008 17:50:03 GMT -5
It could be fixed..... Which would you RATHER have? A "Pure" Capitalist Economy, or Socialist Economy? I was a stockbroker in my early days, and as Cam can tell you, it's a provides a pretty damn good living. I think Cam would also attest that more of us need to be involved in the capitalist culture that's provided to us...not just the consumer end of it. Besides, what would black people do if we couldn't go out and spend our money recklessly like we do...socialism will not provide the means to afford 25 inch rims... |
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 17:54:14 GMT -5
Why keep a democratic society?
see Nazi Germany[/i
<---Playing devil's advocate Is the US viewed as empirical?..yes, at times, and particularly during the Bush admin. So I guess that you could debate that as devil's advocate...if that's the draw. But as far as keeping a democratic society, again, my fundemental answer lies in the very legacy of our presence in this country initially. I couldn't possibly fathom living under any other political system. Not in the least due to the contributions black people have given in order for this country to exist to what it is today... The very Constitution rest on the backs, blood, sweat and tears of our anscestors....fvck anything else... |
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 17:55:13 GMT -5
If we had Universal Healthcare, do you think the quality of care would diminish? just wondering (not anti universal healthcare) Yes, and expotentially. |
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Post by Ms. RedamnDickulous on Jan 25, 2008 17:57:01 GMT -5
We are spoiled Americans and believe me would cry foul if we had Universal Healthcare. We take for granted that our system allows us the opportunity for wealth and social advancement. Try a socialist economy, you will be hard pressed to get ahead. America is the one place that you can become a millionaire in a single generation.
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 18:04:25 GMT -5
We are spoiled Americans and believe me would cry foul if we had Universal Healthcare. We take for granted that our system allows us the opportunity for wealth and social advancement. Try a socialist economy, you will be hard pressed to get ahead. America is the one place that you can become a millionaire in a single generation. *applause* I do, however despise how the western economy dictates the world over. Our financial policies pretty much springboard Europe's, Asia's and the Arab markets...as a result, we've been leveraged b/c there's give and take in everything. Now the Royal Shieks have a 12 percent stake in the US stock market so that we can go and rape and pillage everyone's foreign oil fields....compromise ethics..the American way... Which subsequently also reverberates foreign political policy EVERYWHERE.....can you say ROME B.C.? |
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Post by Nupey on Jan 25, 2008 18:05:03 GMT -5
Is the US viewed as empirical?..yes, at times, and particularly during the Bush admin. So I guess that you could debate that as devil's advocate...if that's the draw. But as far as keeping a democratic society, again, my fundemental answer lies in the very legacy of our presence in this country initially. I couldn't possibly fathom living under any other political system. Not in the least due to the contributions black people have given in order for this country to exist to what it is today... The very Constitution rest on the backs, blood, sweat and tears of our anscestors....fvck anything else... I disagree!!!! We CAUSED the U.S to become Captialist! When Pilgrims first got to America it was socialist. Thats why it FAILED!!!! The slave trade opened the doors for Commerence, where the bartering system died out like the Native Americans did from small pox! |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Jan 25, 2008 18:07:36 GMT -5
It could be fixed..... Which would you RATHER have? A "Pure" Capitalist Economy, or Socialist Economy? The fundamental problem with a socialist approach to financial markets in the US is that we have a political system here called Democracy...and though that political approach isn't always practiced, it is the springboard from which capitalism thrives... Also, as black man in this country, socialism would be a slap in the face to the years of free labor as a result of slavery and complete disregard to the financial civil rights we worked so hard for (and still do).... I was a stockbroker in my early days, and as Cam can tell you, it's a provides a pretty damn good living. I think Cam would also attest that more of us need to be involved in the capitalist culture that's provided to us...not just the consumer end of it. Besides, what would black people do if we couldn't go out and spend our money recklessly like we do...socialism will not provide the means to afford 25 inch rims... Well I totally disagree. Capitalism is powered by human consumption. The more people consume, the more powerful the capitalist economy becomes. Thing is you always have more losers than winners in capitalism. There will never be enough jobs (thats socialism) housing(thats socialism) affordable education(thats socialism) or affordable health care (thats socialism too) in capitalism. If so who would you have to capitalize off of? It is the under educated, poor job having, renting/barely paying the mortgage American that powers this economy. If the poor stop spending, then the economy will halt in its tracks. I think it is a slap in the face to our ancestors that we as Africans displaced in America think that we as a collective will gain equal ground within a system that by it's design in the beginning was to use us and still is. A few of us will slide through the cracks but as a collective we will never reach our total potential. Understand people that if the poor become educated,healthy, and get great jobs and or start businesses locally and regionally then capitalism is a done deal. Big businesses destroy and limit growth of the collective. Stocks don't mean shit if nobody invest directly or indirectly. Gold means nothing if its reality is seen that it is plentiful and people stop buying it. Money doesn't mean anything if people don't use it for barter during exchange for goods and or services. When people realize that EVERYTHING revolves around not the Nas Daq or Dow Jones but around you the consuming human then we can realize our strength. The aforementioned mediums revolves around humans. We are what make it go. I say do away with capitalism for 20 years. Go socialism. Build the infrastructure back up with everyone getting a fair shot. get everyone educated mandatory or vocationally trained. Build a true economy with everyone best interest at heart. When I see the poor and desperate going about wild measures to try and capture the American dream or turn into a vagabond because they couldn't capture the American dream... and a economy that banks billions in the justice system off of that...That isn't right at all. Right now outside of the medical industry the criminal industry is America's stalwart. This shit as my son says when he loses a video games needs a "do over" |
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 18:10:03 GMT -5
Is the US viewed as empirical?..yes, at times, and particularly during the Bush admin. So I guess that you could debate that as devil's advocate...if that's the draw. But as far as keeping a democratic society, again, my fundemental answer lies in the very legacy of our presence in this country initially. I couldn't possibly fathom living under any other political system. Not in the least due to the contributions black people have given in order for this country to exist to what it is today... The very Constitution rest on the backs, blood, sweat and tears of our anscestors....fvck anything else... Yes, and I wouldn't argue your former point. But there's no changing that we were brought here to uphold an economy that was built, arguably, solely on the strength of slavery and the results of it... So I say, make the most out of it....and make the most of it NOW! |
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Post by Southie on Jan 25, 2008 18:12:21 GMT -5
What is the definition of a true middle class?
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Post by Nupey on Jan 25, 2008 18:17:12 GMT -5
But VD and Truth....With socialism....comes the Total Control of Government...
The goverment would have to KNOW what consumers want and need? Correct?
Lets just say Capitalism is gone Meaning the Loss of INCENTIVE of companies to make better products that we consumers WANT, because after all, companies only make what we demand.
Ex: You want/need some new shoes but unfortunately you only get 5 pair of shoes to choose from because the Goverment had to decide WHAT shoes the Entire Population would want.
Those five pair are: Sandals, Wolverine Boots, Orthopedic Shoes, Hiking Boots, and Shaq's.
Would you enjoy that selection? Of course not! Thats what your asking MILLIONS of people to give up! Without our Wants, without the INCENTIVE, companies will no longer make products WE WANT, but only products the goverment THINKS we want....
<-----Is On it today
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 18:18:02 GMT -5
VP, are you serious?
and I ask that question out of sincerity. With the exceptions to Marcus Garvy, the Panther movement and others.
I fail to understand, unless we are collectively going to pull our financial resources and wherwithal to annex a part of this nation to ourselves, why aren't we trying harder to be the captains of industry and right the ship the way I or you see fit?
I hear all the time and time again about what a disgrace capitalism is to the black community....
If you live in this country, pay taxes to this goverment and more importantly, own property, you need to get with the program. I be damn if my sons are going to exist in this nation without staking REAL CLAIM to what is inherently ours as black folks...
**smh**
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 18:23:06 GMT -5
Regarding socialism, I invite anybody to speak with my wife's family, who are Cuban, about the "equality" that socialism affords.
By the way VP, there's an excellent book called "Red Cuba, Black Man", by Eziekial Torres..excellent read about race and economics in both old and new Cuba.
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 18:26:50 GMT -5
Yes, and I wouldn't argue your former point. But there's no changing that we were brought here to uphold an economy that was built, arguably, solely on the strength of slavery and the results of it... So I say, make the most out of it....and make the most of it NOW! Troofus, the Famine-stricken Irish and the railroad building Chinese (with great exceptions to the Native Americans) were here because of the original immigrant: The African slave. We're talking 18, 19th century opportunity immigration as direct result of slavery.... Functional elements, you say? Socialism and Democracy, at least as this nation fashions it? I don't see it... |
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Post by Nupey on Jan 25, 2008 18:27:15 GMT -5
Can I get an Exalt pleasE?
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Jan 25, 2008 18:27:52 GMT -5
Russia and Cuba were Communist economies. Socialism and Communism or different things. Communism is ran by the government and government approved sub entities. To my understanding socialism has sum rights in the financial arena but it is more local and region based.
When you see other countries fail it's not that there way was wrong or anything. The reason is that this Country called America makes ultimatums to countries. If you do business with Russia and Cuba then you can do no business here. Now why and how do America have this leverage? Because of the over consuming American that why. The world is money whipped off of the American consumer.
I mean china would love to send stuff to Cuba but shied not at the cost of losing their biggest and most loyal customer.
America telling a country that is like a woman who has a man pussy whipped that he will never get the kitty again ever if he leaves to go to the club.... that niggah gonna be in his draws in the basement playing ps3 or watching the game.
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 18:30:03 GMT -5
I think to keep the argument of Democracy vs. Socialism balanced, we must not only point out the ills of capitalism as it relates to Democracy, but as well, the obvious ills of a Socialistic society...
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Jan 25, 2008 18:30:50 GMT -5
Pun you know cuba not getting no play on the world arena because of castro. If folks stop fucking with them there economy would flourish.
Seriously though. The world is headed for Anarchy. I can see it coming. It's gonna be ugly too.
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Post by Warner Fite on Jan 25, 2008 18:31:13 GMT -5
gotta go ya'll.....damn!
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Jan 25, 2008 18:37:01 GMT -5
This is socialism at a glance
Socialism refers to a broad array of ideologies and political movements with the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community[1]. This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state.
As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, worker, or community ownership of the means of production, goals which have been attributed to, and claimed by, a number of political parties and governments throughout history.
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Post by Nupey on Jan 25, 2008 18:42:04 GMT -5
Troof, as an attorney, (and a Incredibly Attractive one at that) how do you think your profession would fall in to a socialist country? Wouldn't you become nothing more than a ..
...ahem.....
Public Defender?
Just like National Healthcare, what would be YOUR incentive to get better, when you will STILL get the same pay check?
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