Parental Responsibility.......Limits?

[T-Rex91]

*A mother has had her teenage son taken away because he was over 500 pounds.

*Parents have been sentenced to jail time (at least in my state) for their child's excessive delinquency from school.

*Parents can be charged if their children find and use weapons hidden in the home.

This is just a short list of recent legal actions taken where a parent has claimed that they had no knowledge of their child's activities but were still held liable. Do you feel that parents are responsible for the acts of their children? Is there an age limit at which that (legal) responsibility ends? Are there certain things you think parents should be immune from prosecution on?

[QueenOH]

Yes, 18, Maybe depends on situation

[QueenOH]

The one thing that makes them children and not adults it that they have yet to learn how to take on responsibility for themselves. If parents dont teach children that, they ain't gonna learn it through osmosis

[DamieQue™]

Jul 29, 2009 13:45:40 GMT -5 T-Rex91 said:

*A mother has had her teenage son taken away because he was over 500 pounds.

*Parents have been sentenced to jail time (at least in my state) for their child's excessive delinquency from school.

*Parents can be charged if their children find and use weapons hidden in the home.

This is just a short list of recent legal actions taken where a parent has claimed that they had no knowledge of their child's activities but were still held liable. Do you feel that parents are responsible for the acts of their children? Is there an age limit at which that (legal) responsibility ends? Are there certain things you think parents should be immune from prosecution on?

1. Yes. That is why you are their legal guardian. Because you know better and they don't.
2. 18
3. Yes - especially if it was due to some undiagnosed neurological and pyschological disorder

[peppermint]

I agree with Damie, but the question I had after hearing about the woman with the child who is 555 lbs at the age of 14... I get that he has access to certain foods at home but part of her statement was that he would sneak food while she was at work. Why was food that was not acceptable for him in the house? The boy did not wake up one day at 555 lbs. It begs the question of what did she do to help him before things became that out of control. If it is an emotional issue, then she should have gotten the proper treatment.

As far as the school attendance (and I know these are just examples), if the parent were involved in the child's educational process, s/he would know that Johnnie missed 30 out of 50 days. Again, why don't you know this information?

It's really time that adults stop trying to befriend these children and actually be parents, role models, mentors, etc

[LogAKAlly <3'n Keef]

I have a HUGE problem with the deliquency thing when they reach HS because the parent has NO real means of enforcement.

My son ditched, but I am not "legally" able to do anything to FORCE him to go to school, other than GO to school with him.

I can not physically discipline him.
I can not withold food from him.
I can not put him out.

And these children are AWARE.

The system creates laws, yet barely provides parents any means of enforcing them.

If my son is disrespectful to a police officer, he has authority to physically assault him and even kill him if the officer feels threatend enough.

If I decide to put my hands on him - I FACE jail time.


GTFOH.

So what about the single mother - who has multiple children?

Should she be locked up in jail b/c her oldest child is ditching?

[Oldskool]

Aug 1, 2009 9:21:44 GMT -5 LogAKAlly <3'n Keef said:

I have a HUGE problem with the deliquency thing when they reach HS because the parent has NO real means of enforcement.

My son ditched, but I am not "legally" able to do anything to FORCE him to go to school, other than GO to school with him.

I can not physically discipline him.
YES YOU CAN!

I can not withold food from him.
YES YOU CAN

I can not put him out.
YES YOU CAN

And these children are AWARE.
Put the phone in their hands and tell them to call the police and the corornor's office.

The system creates laws, yet barely provides parents any means of enforcing them.
Tell the system to go to hell. Raise your kids. When all hell breaks lose, the system will blame uou and expect you to pay for the damage. Who do yo you think pays for your kid to go to a foster home?

If my son is disrespectful to a police officer, he has authority to physically assault him and even kill him if the officer feels threatend enough.
That's why you kill him first. He is yours.

If I decide to put my hands on him - I FACE jail time.
Put your hands oh your child and dare him to call the authorities. There must be a certain fear of parents. It's called checks and balances.


GTFOH. That's what I'm saying.

So what about the single mother - who has multiple children?
She needs to get organized, put her kids on a schedule and stick to it. Remember when George Sanford Brown put the stick over the door n Roots? Same concept. Get the wooden spoon, leather, broom, mop, shoe or whatever and stop counting to 3. make something after the 1 and I guarantee order.

Should she be locked up in jail b/c her oldest child is ditching?
Hell no, take his ass to jail. I guarantee after one night, he'll be running to school.

Parents need to stop being afraid to say "no" to their children. You have to start early. Be firm, but loving and above all, be consistent.Establish early who is in charge and your problems will be small. God put us here in order...parent first, then child. We are to learn so we can teach.

This is experience talking. .

[LogAKAlly <3'n Keef]

Aug 1, 2009 11:41:32 GMT -5 Oldskool said:

Aug 1, 2009 9:21:44 GMT -5 LogAKAlly <3'n Keef said:

I have a HUGE problem with the deliquency thing when they reach HS because the parent has NO real means of enforcement.

My son ditched, but I am not "legally" able to do anything to FORCE him to go to school, other than GO to school with him.

I can not physically discipline him.
YES YOU CAN!

My son was 16, I could NOT "LEGALLY" "PHYSICALLY" discipline him in any way that MATTERS/MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

I can not withold food from him.
YES YOU CAN

I can NOT "LEGALLY" withold food from him - please show me the law that says I can.

I can not put him out.
YES YOU CAN

I can not "LEGALLY" put out a minor child - again, please show me the law that says I can.

And these children are AWARE.
Put the phone in their hands and tell them to call the police and the corornor's office.

Again, we're talking about a 16 year old. I don't make idle threats, the reality is, I am NOT going to kill my child - so why bother making threats? Children get use to it and it has no effect. Eventually, you have to make good on your threat.

The system creates laws, yet barely provides parents any means of enforcing them.

Tell the system to go to hell. Raise your kids. When all hell breaks lose, the system will blame uou and expect you to pay for the damage. Who do yo you think pays for your kid to go to a foster home?

Easier said than done. I know my REAL power/limitations in life. There are a few systems I'd like to tell to go to hell, but I have no aspirations to be a fugitive - I have REAL goals that would be greatly effected by tryna be the poster child for the "F the System" campaign.
And when your children go into the system - YOU STILL PAY!!
(Unless you are on welfare, etc.)

If my son is disrespectful to a police officer, he has authority to physically assault him and even kill him if the officer feels threatend enough.
That's why you kill him first. He is yours.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Then I go to jail and my 2 other kids live happily ever after???

If I decide to put my hands on him - I FACE jail time.
Put your hands oh your child and dare him to call the authorities. There must be a certain fear of parents. It's called checks and balances.

So what happens if he tells the teacher, as was the case for the young woman in Oakland. What happens if he tells a friend and the friend tells their parents?

My daughter has told me several stories of her friends getting whooped and slapped.

What if I decided to be concerned?

GTFOH. That's what I'm saying.

So what about the single mother - who has multiple children?
She needs to get organized, put her kids on a schedule and stick to it. Remember when George Sanford Brown put the stick over the door n Roots? Same concept. Get the wooden spoon, leather, broom, mop, shoe or whatever and stop counting to 3. make something after the 1 and I guarantee order.

Again, people act as if parents WANT their kids to act up. People act as if parents are not TRYING. I mean - who WANTS to deal with that kind of shit??

I know some folks just don't give a damn and give up.

Teens are often the most problematic group in our society. There are REAL biological, psychological and environmental factors that facilitate their behavior.

It's NOT always the parents fault. Period.

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Should she be locked up in jail b/c her oldest child is ditching?
Hell no, take his ass to jail. I guarantee after one night, he'll be running to school.

Parents need to stop being afraid to say "no" to their children. You have to start early. Be firm, but loving and above all, be consistent.Establish early who is in charge and your problems will be small. God put us here in order...parent first, then child. We are to learn so we can teach.

I agree with setting limits, being firm, loving, etc. It's not a new concept. But, if it were this simple, WHY do we have the problems and issues we have...and when ^^doesn't work...then what???

[/quote]

This is experience talking. .[/quote]

It is experience, but not neccessarily wisdom.


I refuse to go to jail long term for some short term shit my son was going through.

He's PERFECTLY fine now - I LOVE HIM and I genuinely LIKE HIM.
He was 16, he had his first real girlfriend and "in love" - her life was dramatic and it got contagious.

Now that he has awaken from the dream - he's back to the kid I knew, except he is SO much wiser, mature, and APPRECIATIVE of my love and support.

And I am grateful God watched over him and brought him back to me safely.

[Oldskool]

Silly girl, of course, You are not going to KILL your children....just make them think that you will. Keep the fear healthy so you won't have problems that keep you up all night.

I'm glad things are working out with the 16 year old. Sleep with one eye open...if that makes sense.

[Oldskool]

Why was my Pastor talking about this very subject today?

[T-Rex91]

And here's the other interesting thing I've noticed in this realm. A seven year old stole his parents' car and got into a police chase because he didn't want to go to church. The parents ended up on GMA and the incident got spun into some amazing video rather than acknowledging that the child could have killed himself or someone else. Shouldn't the parents have some culpability? There seem to be some very clear double standards about what behavior parents are liable for. If a child can be taken away for being too fat, why haven't I heard about the parents of any anorexics being charged?

[QueenOH]

Log you may feel powerless but you are not.

I don't know about you but I will be jacking my son up at 16 if he decides to cross the wrong lines.

Put your hands on him. Make sure there are no witnesses and then claim it was self defense if he wants to get the police involved. He is a 16 years old black male who is skipping school and you are 4 foot 5. They'll believe you.

[123Diva]

Aug 3, 2009 7:46:14 GMT -5 QueenOH said:

Log you may feel powerless but you are not.

I don't know about you but I will be jacking my son up at 16 if he decides to cross the wrong lines.

Put your hands on him. Make sure there are no witnesses and then claim it was self defense if he wants to get the police involved. He is a 16 years old black male who is skipping school and you are 4 foot 5. They'll believe you.

Yup.
iDied. I surely died when I read this.
Queen, you are a mess.

And I realize you are dead serious.

[QueenOH]

I know my son is going to get bigger than me and he is going to want to test me at some point.

I'm gonna have to smack him down. Tell on me if he wants to he'll see how the world don't care about black men

[T-Rex91]

^^ Agrees with Queen. You have to make them think Mom is crazy early. You can't try and establish dominance when they are heading into their teens. My brother needed a refresher course when he got a half an inch taller than Mom but he quickly started having flashbacks once she whipped off that Daniel Greene houseshoe and started beating his a$$ with it.

[LogAKAlly <3'n Keef]

Aug 3, 2009 7:46:14 GMT -5 QueenOH said:

Log you may feel powerless but you are not.

I don't know about you but I will be jacking my son up at 16 if he decides to cross the wrong lines.

Put your hands on him. Make sure there are no witnesses and then claim it was self defense if he wants to get the police involved. He is a 16 years old black male who is skipping school and you are 4 foot 5. They'll believe you.

Riiiight Queen...no parent has ever done that before.

And then what....he goes to jail for assault and battery.

:\

[LogAKAlly <3'n Keef]

Aug 3, 2009 11:26:09 GMT -5 T-Rex91 said:

^^ Agrees with Queen. You have to make them think Mom is crazy early. You can't try and establish dominance when they are heading into their teens. My brother needed a refresher course when he got a half an inch taller than Mom but he quickly started having flashbacks once she whipped off that Daniel Greene houseshoe and started beating his a$$ with it.

My aunt whip my cousin when he was young. Like most kids, he got used to it so she stepped it up.
Brushes, cords and eventually bromms and bats.

My cousin was 16 - 6'5 and gangbangin. Her methods were not effective.

My cousin is serving a life sentence.

I'm not sure if you guys have ever had to deal with the system...
it's like a dog with no name, once it's been sicked - it can't be called back.

I hear these ideas...I've HEARD them all before and I have YET to see them actually WORK - I mean, be seriously put into action and have a positive outcome.

If anyone has, I'd love to hear about it.

[QueenOH]

Blac worked for the system. Sometimes it just takes one visit.

Another tactic is public embarrasement. Go up to his school, yelling his name in the tackiest outfit ever.

Threaten that if he don't go to school to stop you, you'll take blown up copies of his baby pics next.

[QueenOH]

Don't let them know that they got you searching for something else.

[Dr. Michelob Lite]

My friends and I were just talking about this today in regards to our siblings and nieces/nephews.

IMO, I will be yoking up my kids early, so I will only have to remind them of how crazy I am when they THINK they're grown. My parents tried 3 different approaches when raising me and my siblings. They were very strict w/ the eldest...beatings w/ very few words. You act up. You get a whooping. And I don't think he ever got the why, which created alot of resentment. Also, he was just a quiet boy...so it's not like he'd stand up for himself. The youngest got the easy route...the groundings, the naggings, the talking til you turn blue. He's a good kid, but he acts as if the 'rents are his friends, and he is an equal. Very presumptuous and naive. And I was raised somewhere in between, and I'm glad for it. Bleh...so overall, I agree w/ OldSkool...sometimes you have to put that fear into your kids plus reinforce it with alot of love & communication. My folks put their foot in my ass, but in retrospect, I knew it was out of love, and it kept me out of so much trouble.

[Dr. Michelob Lite]

Oh yeah, and to answer the Q...IMO, parents are absolutely responsible for their kids. If they didn't want the responsibility, then they shouldn't have had them. Legally, up until 18, that kid is your "problem"...but honestly, up until that kid is out of college and/or on their own, it's still your issue. So really...21-22 is when you can start to sorta relax.

Limits on responsibilities? Murder...but if something you did (or didn't do) aided/provoked the incident, then IMO, it's partially your fault.

[Oldskool]

Aug 3, 2009 11:46:06 GMT -5 LogAKAlly <3'n Keef said:

Aug 3, 2009 11:26:09 GMT -5 T-Rex91 said:

^^ Agrees with Queen. You have to make them think Mom is crazy early. You can't try and establish dominance when they are heading into their teens. My brother needed a refresher course when he got a half an inch taller than Mom but he quickly started having flashbacks once she whipped off that Daniel Greene houseshoe and started beating his a$$ with it.

My aunt whip my cousin when he was young. Like most kids, he got used to it so she stepped it up.
Brushes, cords and eventually bromms and bats.

My cousin was 16 - 6'5 and gangbangin. Her methods were not effective.

My cousin is serving a life sentence.

I'm not sure if you guys have ever had to deal with the system...
it's like a dog with no name, once it's been sicked - it can't be called back.

I hear these ideas...I've HEARD them all before and I have YET to see them actually WORK - I mean, be seriously put into action and have a positive outcome.

If anyone has, I'd love to hear about it.

Dr. Michelob is correct in saying that you are responsible for your kids until they get out of college and get their own benefits.

Now about that proof. When my son was about 5 I told him to put his toys away or I would throw them away. He told me that if I threw his toys away, he would run away. I floated in air across the room to jack him up and let him know hat he had better not ever try to threaten me again. I tried to kill that little boy.

This same little boy tried to sag when he was in 7th grade, my husband beat his butt one morning and sent him to school in a white shirt tucked in some black slacks for two weeks. To drive home the point, he got in the shower one night with this same little boy and grabbed him in the neck, pinned him up against the wall and told him who was the boss. That scared the mess out of that little boy.

This same little boy is a senior in college now. As '91 said, if your kids think you are crazy, they get in line. Everyone respects crazy. The key word tho' to all of this is EARLY.

You cannot start laying down the law in the teen years.

[LogAKAlly <3'n Keef]

Aug 3, 2009 11:56:44 GMT -5 QueenOH said:

Blac worked for the system. Sometimes it just takes one visit.

Another tactic is public embarrasement. Go up to his school, yelling his name in the tackiest outfit ever.

Threaten that if he don't go to school to stop you, you'll take blown up copies of his baby pics next.

I'm DEF with you on P.E.

[Blues Clues]

IMO....these kids, or the "government property" (how I affectionately call them), have toooo many damn rights...

I remember when I was younger, if I did something wrong in school, I was getting beaten by my teacher and/or my principal, and then would get beat when I got home cause the teacher had called her and she was embarassed....there was no calling of 911, there was calling of CPS....

On the other hand, some parents take it too far....This guy was jailed for tying his daugther to a cocnut tree and beting her with a garden hose because - get this - she was caught having sex at school in the bathroom....He was never convicted of any other crime, and the law did not feel sorry for him at all...his only daughter of 6 children, only in 10th grade, getting an eduMANcation....WTF? He could have handled it differently, but this guy had completely lost it!!! I would too....

[Oldskool]

I was mishandled as a child by a person who was looking after me while my mom worked. After having my own kids, I was always mindful that there was a distinct difference between abuse and discipline. If you discipline consistently and early enough, there is no need for abuse.