Things that have carried over...?

[nsync]

Soooo I was thinking most of us have predominantly African backgrounds. Our ancestors came here as slaves and brought their cultures (especially religions with them).

As I have studied cultural develop and transfer in the past and I have observed a few things on my own I am now aware that cultural elements have lasted thousands of generations. (I mean even the cultural concept of burying someone in the groud is thought to be prehistoric)----that means we have GOT to have retained some remnants of african spiritualism in our everyday living or even our religious practices.

What are some things that you think may have carried over from our African ancestors' religions that we still as a culture (in general) may display or believe?

This is a speculative question. Guessing and losely based observations are allowed. Feel free to post them too.

[nsync]

I'll start. I think many of the superstitions I was taught from a kid by my greatgrandmother (who was the granddaughter of a slaves)may stem from there.
I am so blessed to have witnessed some of her ways. It really was/is living history)

Things like...don't leave lose hair (like out of a comb) laying around. It must be burned or flushed

or...don't sweep feet. I have never for the life of me understood that.

There was another biggy...don't point at headstones in a graveyard.
(speaking of which did yall know that CEMETARIES and GRAVEYARDS are two different classifications of burial sites? I soooo didn't know that. I use graveyard for both because that is another thing that has been passed down culturally from a time when there were only graveyards and not (if any) cementaries available to us black folks.)

Those are a few I can think of off the top of my head.
These are not to be confused with things such as don't let a black cat cross your path, breaking a mirror or don't split a poll (wait that may actually be one) or don't walk under a ladder . I think those are European superstitions from our Great Britain mothers and fathers.

[nsync]

Oh and..."catching the holy ghost" (shouting). Well this is no longer a speculation of mine. I have looked into this and it is reported several times that this is based off of African spiritual traditions.

It actually came to me(without knowing) one day when I was in an athropology class and they were showing a clip of a particular African village (cannont remember the country or tribe.) I also can not remember what it was about exactly but I know it had something to do with open rituals, dancing and conjuring up spirits through this dance or something.

Anyhow, I saw this woman and she was just ta going and I snickered to myself and thought... Looks like she's shouting or something. Later on I would compare that to the schock I received when going into white churches(and other denominations and non-black churches) and seeing folks quiet and calm through out the entire service. Also, listening to other Christians telling me shouting is fake......I always thought it was a CHristian thing growing up, because that's what they did at all the churches I went to. LOL Boy did I have a lot to learn and I would eventually learn it the hard way.

I know white folks shout(although I've haven't it seen it yet ***YOUTUBE**** and I know black folks have "quiet" services. I am not focusing on race as much as I am focusing on cultural/religious influences.

[Vudu_Prince]

Lots of stuff that folks either fail to mention or for some reason are ashamed of.

Just to make it relevant to the audience as I said this on the old OO two years ago.. all of the customs we do within our organizations on a process level comes directly from Africa.

Within BGLO circles when one is done with their process we all say they are about to "Go Over" or "Cross" . An example of this jargon can be found with in the Seeking Ritual as practiced by the Geechie/Gullah Cultures in the Carolinas most notably James Island South Carolina. The Seeking Ritual was done for Boys and Girls seperatly and EVERY child had to do it or you wouldn't go over or cross over into Manhood or Womanhood. This custom was a mixture of Congo, Angola, and Benin/Guinea Bissau areas of Africa.

The boys would line up by height and go into the bush at night. Probation periods where the initiates were banned from outside contact also was done as well.

The circle step or as we call the Circle March you see every BGLO carrying out comes from in part with what was called the Ring Shout. This is when the initiates and the community after they were Go Over would Circle Step together. Hopping, Gyrating, Flipping, Yelling, Spinning, etc etc etc in a counter clockwise motion.

The women had a special Ring Shout for themselves that only the women would do which is now called the Scarf Dance that has been adopted by many cultures and also the link dance which you see some Sororities of BGLO's do.

The last example I will show is for morso clarity than tradition is with the advent of the Gumboot Dance which most bglo's call Stepping. The Gumboot Dance isn't a traditional dance but was more of a rebellious gesture to British Diamond Miners in South Africa. At first the workers didn't have proper shoes to work the mines so the infidels purchased what is called a Wellington Boot. Irony is that the material used to make these boots were from the Rubber Fields of Central and West Central Africa.

Since talking wasn't allowed in the Diamond Mines the workers developed a code to communicate for various reasons. So they would tap on the boot in rhythm to communicate. Later the workers would carry out call and response chants rebelling against the Diamond Miners and they would tap on the boots in rhythm and thus the Gumboot Dance was born. It wasn't a traditional South African custom though before then.

[Julie Art]

Jul 9, 2009 0:16:56 GMT -5 @nsync said:

Oh and..."catching the holy ghost" (shouting). Well this is no longer a speculation of mine. I have looked into this and it is reported several times that this is based off of African spiritual traditions.

It actually came to me(without knowing) one day when I was in an athropology class and they were showing a clip of a particular African village (cannont remember the country or tribe.) I also can not remember what it was about exactly but I know it had something to do with open rituals, dancing and conjuring up spirits through this dance or something.

Anyhow, I saw this woman and she was just ta going and I snickered to myself and thought... Looks like she's shouting or something. Later on I would compare that to the schock I received when going into white churches(and other denominations and non-black churches) and seeing folks quiet and calm through out the entire service. Also, listening to other Christians telling me shouting is fake......I always thought it was a CHristian thing growing up, because that's what they did at all the churches I went to. LOL Boy did I have a lot to learn and I would eventually learn it the hard way.

I know white folks shout(although I've haven't it seen it yet ***YOUTUBE**** and I know black folks have "quiet" services. I am not focusing on race as much as I am focusing on cultural/religious influences.

Dang it Outtie! You took mine!

[huey]

Jul 9, 2009 9:40:23 GMT -5 Vudu_Prince said:

Lots of stuff that folks either fail to mention or for some reason are ashamed of.

Just to make it relevant to the audience as I said this on the old OO two years ago.. all of the customs we do within our organizations on a process level comes directly from Africa.

Within BGLO circles when one is done with their process we all say they are about to "Go Over" or "Cross" . An example of this jargon can be found with in the Seeking Ritual as practiced by the Geechie/Gullah Cultures in the Carolinas most notably James Island South Carolina. The Seeking Ritual was done for Boys and Girls seperatly and EVERY child had to do it or you wouldn't go over or cross over into Manhood or Womanhood. This custom was a mixture of Congo, Angola, and Benin/Guinea Bissau areas of Africa.

The boys would line up by height and go into the bush at night. Probation periods where the initiates were banned from outside contact also was done as well.

The circle step or as we call the Circle March you see every BGLO carrying out comes from in part with what was called the Ring Shout. This is when the initiates and the community after they were Go Over would Circle Step together. Hopping, Gyrating, Flipping, Yelling, Spinning, etc etc etc in a counter clockwise motion.

The women had a special Ring Shout for themselves that only the women would do which is now called the Scarf Dance that has been adopted by many cultures and also the link dance which you see some Sororities of BGLO's do.

The last example I will show is for morso clarity than tradition is with the advent of the Gumboot Dance which most bglo's call Stepping. The Gumboot Dance isn't a traditional dance but was more of a rebellious gesture to British Diamond Miners in South Africa. At first the workers didn't have proper shoes to work the mines so the infidels purchased what is called a Wellington Boot. Irony is that the material used to make these boots were from the Rubber Fields of Central and West Central Africa.

Since talking wasn't allowed in the Diamond Mines the workers developed a code to communicate for various reasons. So they would tap on the boot in rhythm to communicate. Later the workers would carry out call and response chants rebelling against the Diamond Miners and they would tap on the boots in rhythm and thus the Gumboot Dance was born. It wasn't a traditional South African custom though before then.

How's this custom get transferred to America?

The most obvious to me is the act of pouring libation or pouring out liquor for the dead.

An interesting article on that subject is here
www.rootsandrooted.org/?p=37


t’s important to realize that the pouring of Liquor or Libation is a rite reserved exclusively for those that lived good moral lives. When we pour libation to a person we are honoring and invoking their character, behavior and beliefs. We are asking them to bring us more of what they gave us on Earth.

When we pour liquor to fallen “street soldiers” we are invoking the sale of drugs, the use of firearms, the objectification of women, the fear they breed among our elderly, the vice grip they hold on our blocks. We are asking them to bring more of that into our lives. To help us continue to fight gang wars. To help continue to be able to do whatever it takes to get fly clothes rims and secret “cribs” where we hide secret girlfriends. We are invoking their desire for money, their desire for revenge, their desire for power and respect.

We are welcoming more crime, more death, and more materialism into our lives.

When we pour liquor to a dead gang member we are praying for more gang members. When we pour liquor to a dead pimp we are praying for more pimps to be born and molded. In doing so, the cycle continues. There is a spiritual consequence for performing the rite of libation on the wrong people.

“The Rules” We do not pour libation for people that died in violence that was not community endorsed (a just war) – In most cultures they don’t get public funerals either.

* We do not pour libation for criminals. – In most cultures they don’t get public funerals either.
* We do not pour libation for deceased children, even if they were good people. What could a child spirit offer us in the way of wisdom??? (Some culture differ here or at least restrict their communications with child spirits.)
* We do not pour libation for people that died of ailments out of norm for their age or that betray a bad lifestyle. – In most cultures they don’t get public funerals either.
* We do not pour libation for people that commit suicide. No exceptions. (This is always the one that everyone feels they ought to do”anyway” and end up getting hurt even WORSE.)
* We only pour libation for Elders that were moral and responsible.

[Vudu_Prince]

Jul 9, 2009 11:06:20 GMT -5 huey said:

Jul 9, 2009 9:40:23 GMT -5 Vudu_Prince said:

Lots of stuff that folks either fail to mention or for some reason are ashamed of.

Just to make it relevant to the audience as I said this on the old OO two years ago.. all of the customs we do within our organizations on a process level comes directly from Africa.

Within BGLO circles when one is done with their process we all say they are about to "Go Over" or "Cross" . An example of this jargon can be found with in the Seeking Ritual as practiced by the Geechie/Gullah Cultures in the Carolinas most notably James Island South Carolina. The Seeking Ritual was done for Boys and Girls seperatly and EVERY child had to do it or you wouldn't go over or cross over into Manhood or Womanhood. This custom was a mixture of Congo, Angola, and Benin/Guinea Bissau areas of Africa.

The boys would line up by height and go into the bush at night. Probation periods where the initiates were banned from outside contact also was done as well.

The circle step or as we call the Circle March you see every BGLO carrying out comes from in part with what was called the Ring Shout. This is when the initiates and the community after they were Go Over would Circle Step together. Hopping, Gyrating, Flipping, Yelling, Spinning, etc etc etc in a counter clockwise motion.

The women had a special Ring Shout for themselves that only the women would do which is now called the Scarf Dance that has been adopted by many cultures and also the link dance which you see some Sororities of BGLO's do.

The last example I will show is for morso clarity than tradition is with the advent of the Gumboot Dance which most bglo's call Stepping. The Gumboot Dance isn't a traditional dance but was more of a rebellious gesture to British Diamond Miners in South Africa. At first the workers didn't have proper shoes to work the mines so the infidels purchased what is called a Wellington Boot. Irony is that the material used to make these boots were from the Rubber Fields of Central and West Central Africa.

Since talking wasn't allowed in the Diamond Mines the workers developed a code to communicate for various reasons. So they would tap on the boot in rhythm to communicate. Later the workers would carry out call and response chants rebelling against the Diamond Miners and they would tap on the boots in rhythm and thus the Gumboot Dance was born. It wasn't a traditional South African custom though before then.

How's this custom get transferred to America?

The most obvious to me is the act of pouring libation or pouring out liquor for the dead.

An interesting article on that subject is here
www.rootsandrooted.org/?p=37


t’s important to realize that the pouring of Liquor or Libation is a rite reserved exclusively for those that lived good moral lives. When we pour libation to a person we are honoring and invoking their character, behavior and beliefs. We are asking them to bring us more of what they gave us on Earth.

When we pour liquor to fallen “street soldiers” we are invoking the sale of drugs, the use of firearms, the objectification of women, the fear they breed among our elderly, the vice grip they hold on our blocks. We are asking them to bring more of that into our lives. To help us continue to fight gang wars. To help continue to be able to do whatever it takes to get fly clothes rims and secret “cribs” where we hide secret girlfriends. We are invoking their desire for money, their desire for revenge, their desire for power and respect.

We are welcoming more crime, more death, and more materialism into our lives.

When we pour liquor to a dead gang member we are praying for more gang members. When we pour liquor to a dead pimp we are praying for more pimps to be born and molded. In doing so, the cycle continues. There is a spiritual consequence for performing the rite of libation on the wrong people.

“The Rules” We do not pour libation for people that died in violence that was not community endorsed (a just war) – In most cultures they don’t get public funerals either.

* We do not pour libation for criminals. – In most cultures they don’t get public funerals either.
* We do not pour libation for deceased children, even if they were good people. What could a child spirit offer us in the way of wisdom??? (Some culture differ here or at least restrict their communications with child spirits.)
* We do not pour libation for people that died of ailments out of norm for their age or that betray a bad lifestyle. – In most cultures they don’t get public funerals either.
* We do not pour libation for people that commit suicide. No exceptions. (This is always the one that everyone feels they ought to do”anyway” and end up getting hurt even WORSE.)
* We only pour libation for Elders that were moral and responsible.

Yeah good stuff on the libations.
Check out This Far by Faith on PBS thought they have some things wrong its interesting and also This Old Ship of Zion by Walter F. Pitts.

[nsync]

AKAD...so you noticed that too? Seee...lol Im sure there are many other things.

Good stuff folks! Yall got some more. VP you said you had other stuff...

Huey do you think libations have been transferred or are they more apart of a reclamation sort of thing. I rarely see folks doing them unless it is during an Afro-centric ceremony/event OR in the hood with the forties. LOL So I wonder if it's something we tried to reclaim from what we found out about our ancestors or something that was truly passed along.

I did my first libation a week or so ago. Using your "Rules" I did alright!





I have another one....Don't talk bad about the dead.

I noticed that black folks tend to respect this idea more than any other groups(unless someone died doing something immoral). It's definately taboo in our community.

[No Screen Name]

I have another one....Don't talk bad about the dead.

Or pregnant women shouldn't make fun of people or they will "mark" the baby. Anybody heard that one?

[nsync]

YES>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>! I have heard of that.

Or dreaming of fish means someone is pregnant. Bird flies in a house that means someone is going to die (most likely in that house)<---this might be european in origin. Not sure. Where does this stuff come from? Seriously has anyone ever wondered where these things come from?

I personally need to see what this "sweep feet" stuff is all about.

[No Screen Name]

My aunts always said if someone swept your feet, it meant you would never get married.

[huey]

Jul 12, 2009 21:49:42 GMT -5 @nsync said:

YES>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>! I have heard of that.

Or dreaming of fish means someone is pregnant. Bird flies in a house that means someone is going to die (most likely in that house)<---this might be european in origin. Not sure. Where does this stuff come from? Seriously has anyone ever wondered where these things come from?

I personally need to see what this "sweep feet" stuff is all about.

Yoruba.




Yemaja is an orisha, originally of the Yoruba religion, who has become prominent in many Afro-American religions. Africans from what is now called Yorubaland brought Yemaya and a host of other deities/energy forces in nature with them when they were brought to the shores of the Americas as captives. She is the ocean, the essence of motherhood, and a protector of children.

Yemaja is represented by fish. She being orisha of fertility and motherhood, dreaming of fish is interpreted as being pregnant.

[nsync]

OMGARSH!! !! I KNEW IT!!! THANK YOU HUEY! EXALT!!!!

[nsync]

Hmmmnnnnnn! Interesting! I was never told why...it was just "don't sweep my feet!"

wow.

Thanks Z. Ima find out about this one yet.

Jul 14, 2009 13:29:26 GMT -5 No Screen Name said:

My aunts always said if someone swept your feet, it meant you would never get married.

[LogAKAlly <3'n Keef]

I heard if someone swept your feet you were going to jail so you have to spit on the broom. :-\

[nsync]

So we know sweeping feet is malo. Dont matter what...we just know something is going to happen.

[Oldskool]

Jul 14, 2009 17:16:21 GMT -5 LogAKAlly <3'n Keef said:

I heard if someone swept your feet you were going to jail so you have to spit on the broom. :-\

I heard this same thing. Also how about "Don't sneeze with food in your mouth. If you do, spit he food out right away.

Don't split the pole. If two or three people are walking together, they should all go in the same direction around the pole, tree, or whatever.

[Oldskool]

Just before my mother went in to see the Dr. she said to me "uncross my shoes". That was the last thing she said to me. I always make it a point to not leave my shoes crossed after taking them off or putting them away.

[nsync]

Wow Oldskool. I really need to know where these things come from.

[TruthfulAuthority]

Jul 14, 2009 13:40:56 GMT -5 huey said:

Jul 12, 2009 21:49:42 GMT -5 @nsync said:

YES>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>! I have heard of that.

Or dreaming of fish means someone is pregnant. Bird flies in a house that means someone is going to die (most likely in that house)<---this might be european in origin. Not sure. Where does this stuff come from? Seriously has anyone ever wondered where these things come from?

I personally need to see what this "sweep feet" stuff is all about.

Yoruba.




Yemaja is an orisha, originally of the Yoruba religion, who has become prominent in many Afro-American religions. Africans from what is now called Yorubaland brought Yemaya and a host of other deities/energy forces in nature with them when they were brought to the shores of the Americas as captives. She is the ocean, the essence of motherhood, and a protector of children.

Yemaja is represented by fish. She being orisha of fertility and motherhood, dreaming of fish is interpreted as being pregnant.

WOW, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. INTERESTING.
AND WHO EVER SAID YOU CAN'T RECEIVE KNOWLEDGE FROM OOA.
FOR SOME REASON THIS MADE ME THINK OF THAT SCENE FROM AMISTAD WHEN THE PREGNANT SLAVE JUMPED INTO THE OCEAN TAKING A LINE OF SHACKLED SLAVES WITH HER. DROWNING THEM ALL.

[nsync]

Wait hold up TA...now I aint never watched AMISTAD. Ima go rent it today cause I heard the dude from Antwoine Fisher was in there and he's fine!