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Post by T-Rex91 on Jun 15, 2009 12:38:20 GMT -5
OK Z, this one's for you.
One of the things I think trips people up about Christianity is some interpret the Bible literally and some consider it a book of tales designed to teach us lessons.
Example, my pastor preached about the following passage one day.
Mark 16:17–18 (NIV)
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all
He said that some of us had been dropped off at church by snakes, lived with snakes, slept with snakes. As for new tongues, he said that was a person who formerly cursed and now didn't. He basically gave an allegorical interpretation versus the literal of those who dance with real snakes because they say that's what the Bible says to do.
So what say you OOA? do you believe everything in the Bible as literal fact or great storytelling? A mix of the two?
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Post by Cambist on Jun 15, 2009 13:09:07 GMT -5
Y'all know my stand....this should be interesting.
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Jun 15, 2009 13:12:29 GMT -5
When people use the Bible literally, it's usually to make whatever point they're trying to make seem justified.
I believe that the Bible is a combination between the two.
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Post by LejaOMG on Jun 15, 2009 14:40:17 GMT -5
my pastor preached about the following passage one day. Mark 16:17–18 (NIV)
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at allHe said that some of us had been dropped off at church by snakes, lived with snakes, slept with snakes. As for new tongues, he said that was a person who formerly cursed and now didn't. He basically gave an allegorical interpretation versus the literal of those who dance with real snakes because they say that's what the Bible says to do. That's cool if he has biblical support for his interpretation of the imagery. If he's making it up, not so much. Furthermore, there is biblical support for certain hard-to-swallow prophecies, principles and stories and where folks are afraid to consider them literally (for fear of what it may mean for them or it makes them uncomfortable in general), they often minimize them as "allegory." |
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Jun 15, 2009 14:43:36 GMT -5
my pastor preached about the following passage one day. Mark 16:17–18 (NIV)
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at allHe said that some of us had been dropped off at church by snakes, lived with snakes, slept with snakes. As for new tongues, he said that was a person who formerly cursed and now didn't. He basically gave an allegorical interpretation versus the literal of those who dance with real snakes because they say that's what the Bible says to do. That's cool if he has biblical support for his interpretation of the imagery. If he's making it up, not so much. Furthermore, there is biblical support for certain hard-to-swallow prophecies, principles and stories and where folks are afraid to consider them literally (for fear of what it may mean for them or it makes them uncomfortable in general), they often minimize them as "allegory." Hey...........if you don't mind, can you shoot me a PM about one of those hard-to-swallow prophecies, principles, or stories and the allegory it's minimized to? |
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Post by LejaOMG on Jun 15, 2009 14:51:24 GMT -5
done.
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Post by peppermint on Jun 15, 2009 15:02:58 GMT -5
A parable by definition is a story used to teach a moral or specific lesson. IMHO, using a parable as a literal translation would not make sense. I do, however, believe the Bible is the infalliable Word of God.
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Post by LejaOMG on Jun 15, 2009 15:07:17 GMT -5
word. The only thing I'm saying is that not all stories in the bible are parables. Some are historical accounts, some are factual and literal and some are inspired of God to foretell future events. Considering all that which is difficult for humans to grasp as allegory is dangerous.
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Post by LejaOMG on Jun 15, 2009 15:17:31 GMT -5
uh huh
yep
I think that was a figure of speech
yet, I do believe that Jesus fed 5,000 folks @ that fishfry in Galilee.
So yeah, depending on the context of the story and its agreement with other scriptures, I try to discern which things are merely illustrative and which are meant to be taken literally.
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Jun 15, 2009 15:18:04 GMT -5
OK, I must not have asked this question the way I intended cause I feel some bobbing and weaving going on. Do you believe Sarah got pregnant at 90? Do you believe Jesus walked on water? Do you believe that believers can drink poison and be unaffected? Insert implausible act of your choice (other than through God's favor). Or do you believe that these are figurative examples? Yes I believe those, especially about Sarah. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Jun 15, 2009 15:19:30 GMT -5
lol The bible is used literally but then when you show something in the bible that goes against something earlier then that's when the Coon ass buck dancing spitting preacha pork chop say naw well see what had happen was what it really meant was... fuck on with that bullchit. lol Either it is or it ain't. Oh my fault that's where "faith" comes in at.. My Fault carry on
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Post by T-Rex91 on Jun 15, 2009 15:20:54 GMT -5
LOL! Thank you Leja and Hyp! I deleted my post cause I saw your posts answering the question after I complained that folks were skirting the question. I wish I could put it back now  |
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Post by LejaOMG on Jun 15, 2009 15:26:16 GMT -5
lol The bible is used literally but then when you show something in the bible that goes against something earlier then that's when the Coon ass buck dancing spitting preacha pork chop say naw well see what had happen was what it really meant was... fuck on with that bullchit. lol Either it is or it ain't. Oh my fault that's where "faith" comes in at.. My Fault carry on I hear you, though. |
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Post by peppermint on Jun 15, 2009 15:34:28 GMT -5
word. The only thing I'm saying is that not all stories in the bible are parables. Some are historical accounts, some are factual and literal and some are inspired of God to foretell future events. Considering all that which is difficult for humans to grasp as allegory is dangerous. True, I was commenting more on the aspect of people referring to certain things are are meant to be allegorical as such. What this can lead disbelief of the entire Bible. Somehow I missed the question about the various miracles of the Bibles, e.g. Sarah giving birth at 90, Jesus walking on water, etc. I do believe though things did occur. In actuality I believe we are starting to see the return of some of these things, though unnatural. For example the woman who recently became preggers at 68. The use of fertility treatments is allowing women to have children at ages previously unheard of. I also believe that one can drink poison and not be harmed. It happens on a regular basis. <----really gotta go back to work, see ya |
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Post by Chal™ on Jun 15, 2009 17:12:52 GMT -5
I was about to comment, but Leja pretty much spoke my mind. But a fish fry? lol. She said fish fry. hahaha
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Post by Warner Fite on Jun 15, 2009 17:24:21 GMT -5
Mostly allegorical....When you look at the Bible from it's philosophy position, it's almost embarrasingly allegorical.
But I do beleive in a Supreme Being. I think the story has yet to be determined, though....I hope that doesn't make me Jewish.
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Jun 15, 2009 17:30:25 GMT -5
uh huh yep I think that was a figure of speech yet, I do believe that Jesus fed 5,000 folks @ that fishfry in Galilee. So yeah, depending on the context of the story and its agreement with other scriptures, I try to discern which things are merely illustrative and which are meant to be taken literally. I wish I was at that fish fry.................. |
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Post by T-Rex91 on Jun 16, 2009 8:13:08 GMT -5
Somehow I missed the question about the various miracles of the Bibles, e.g. Sarah giving birth at 90, Jesus walking on water, etc. I do believe though things did occur. In actuality I believe we are starting to see the return of some of these things, though unnatural. For example the woman who recently became preggers at 68. The use of fertility treatments is allowing women to have children at ages previously unheard of. I also believe that one can drink poison and not be harmed. It happens on a regular basis. <----really gotta go back to work, see ya The ability to "recreate" any of the miracles in the Bible through scientific means will only serve to further dampen the faith factor. That was the whole premise of Angels and Demons. A scientist created matter out of nothing, replicating God's creation of the universe from nothing, and all hell broke loose. When women bear children as seniors through scientific intervention, God will not be credited, science will. |
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Post by nsync on Jun 16, 2009 11:19:33 GMT -5
Great thread!
I can't stand VP is all I have to say. LOL I've said it several times before.
DSTurbia you are on to something, but I can't figure out your stance on this matter
I took a bible course taught by a devout christian from a christian school. He told me OUTTIE the bible is a historical text more than it is anything else.
Im like what you talkin bout willis? IMPOSSIBLE.
Him: let me take your hand and walk you through a time very different than ours...
Me: NO! LOL
You know there are nights when I am up laying in my bed thinking about the days my life changed forever. It was during those days that I realized that although, I consider the bible a spiritual text I am quite sure there is much historical context in there. Especially the old testament which is very reflective of jewish cultures and beliefs of the time.
I don't think the bible would become less true if it wasn't the infallable word of God. I just think alot of religious leaders would have a harder time convincing their congregation that certain things are christian law and going against them would be sinful.
I always say stick to the red letters. If there's a debate...lets go to the red letters. If it's a sin lets go to the red letters. This is Christianity right? Then what did Jesus say? That has to trump everything else.
LOL This works my boo's nerves when we have our bible talks. LOL
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Post by T-Rex91 on Jun 16, 2009 16:02:27 GMT -5
Great thread! DSTurbia you are on to something, but I can't figure out your stance on this matter Which matter? I'm all over the place as usual  . If it's my original question, I think it's allegorical. |
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Post by adisa on Jun 17, 2009 7:58:58 GMT -5
It's also part mythological[/b] which is not the same as allegorical. I don't know why the "M" word bothers some people so much.
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Post by T-Rex91 on Jun 17, 2009 9:12:53 GMT -5
Not sure either. School me on what you mean.
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Post by LejaOMG on Jun 17, 2009 9:56:25 GMT -5
It's also part mythological[/b] which is not the same as allegorical. I don't know why the "M" word bothers some people so much.[/quote] Nice. Care to share an example? |
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Post by denounced on Jun 17, 2009 11:51:36 GMT -5
Parables, whether a fictional or actual, are events that had, do, or will occur They are real occurrences that people can relate and have an understanding of what is being said. It's show and tell.
Your pastor used that scripture completely out of context. That's very bad.
Take the Bible literally unless the text itself says otherwise, but even symbolism and figurative passages can have literal meanings.
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Post by denounced on Jun 17, 2009 11:57:29 GMT -5
The purpose of miracles are not to support faith or bring poeple to Christ. If one cannot believe the miracles of the Bible, then they do not believe the Bible as a credible document. Hence, the fact that it should philosophically be taken literally. Jesus, literally fulfilled dozens of prophecies, to the point of "almost" literal impossibility. Philosophically, there are only two options. Jesus is the Messiah, or He is not.
Excellent question DST91
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Post by Julie Art on Jun 17, 2009 12:42:09 GMT -5
Great thread! I can't stand VP is all I have to say. LOL I've said it several times before. DSTurbia you are on to something, but I can't figure out your stance on this matter I took a bible course taught by a devout christian from a christian school. He told me OUTTIE the bible is a historical text more than it is anything else. Im like what you talkin bout willis? IMPOSSIBLE. Him: let me take your hand and walk you through a time very different than ours... Me: NO! LOL You know there are nights when I am up laying in my bed thinking about the days my life changed forever. It was during those days that I realized that although, I consider the bible a spiritual text I am quite sure there is much historical context in there. Especially the old testament which is very reflective of jewish cultures and beliefs of the time. I don't think the bible would become less true if it wasn't the infallable word of God. I just think alot of religious leaders would have a harder time convincing their congregation that certain things are christian law and going against them would be sinful. [glow=red,2,300]I always say stick to the red letters. If there's a debate...lets go to the red letters. If it's a sin lets go to the red letters. This is Christianity right? Then what did Jesus say? That has to trump everything else.[/glow] LOL This works my boo's nerves when we have our bible talks. LOL I'mma have to start using this rebuttal. |
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Post by LejaOMG on Jun 17, 2009 14:20:00 GMT -5
^^don't. That's bad business yo. You can get yourself caught up indeed. There are no red letters that condemn MOST of the things God has sho'nuff promised to judge us for. Jesus focused on:
1. Love God in every way with your whole existence
2. Love your neighbor as yourself.
These principles are the basis of every other thing God expects of us, but he does indeed expect quite a bit more from us.
howbesoeva...think for a second you gonna be fornicatin, lyin, cheatin, stealin, murderin and carryin on and God's gonna let you off on a technicality. Talkin bout some "well Jesus ain't exactly say..." Yeah fam, It ain't goin down.
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Post by Julie Art on Jun 17, 2009 16:48:19 GMT -5
You got a point, madam lawyer!
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Post by frozenmenace on Jun 17, 2009 18:55:18 GMT -5
We had a discussion about this one day in one of my Seminary classes. What the professor said kind of rocked my dome because there were some things I interpreted literally (specifically the Adam and Eve scenario).
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Jun 17, 2009 19:03:57 GMT -5
Do share, if it's not a problem.
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. If it's my original question, I think it's allegorical.
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