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Post by peppermint on May 14, 2009 0:24:00 GMT -5
To those who disagree with birth control for religious reasons, how do you feel about fertility treatments?
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on May 14, 2009 0:53:21 GMT -5
To those who disagree with birth control for religious reasons, how do you feel about fertility treatments? EXALT!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by No Screen Name on May 14, 2009 15:35:28 GMT -5
DOUBLE EXALT!!!!
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on May 14, 2009 15:37:07 GMT -5
ONE MO GIN!!! Soon as I get my powers back!
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on May 14, 2009 15:55:35 GMT -5
To those who disagree with birth control for religious reasons, how do you feel about fertility treatments? I can't wait to read these responses! EXHALT! |
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Post by coldfront06 on May 14, 2009 19:08:22 GMT -5
Maybe I'm slow...will someone explain to me how this would be a conflict?
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Post by nsync on May 14, 2009 21:19:02 GMT -5
LOL!! Im with you Cold. I was so cofused exalt after exalt.
Perhaps it's because the core argument is that birth control plays God, because it prevents that natural course of reproduction. I guess fertility treatments can be seen the same way...
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Post by Sapphire on May 14, 2009 21:45:50 GMT -5
Interesting topic.
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Post by coldfront06 on May 15, 2009 1:19:11 GMT -5
LOL!! Im with you Cold. I was so cofused exalt after exalt. Perhaps it's because the core argument is that birth control plays God, because it prevents that natural course of reproduction. I guess fertility treatments can be seen the same way... LOL...that was my assumption too |
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Post by Prissy New Year!!! on May 15, 2009 8:35:44 GMT -5
To those who disagree with birth control for religious reasons, how do you feel about fertility treatments? Does anyone on here disagree with birth control. I know we have discussed abortion, but I don't remember anyone speaking out on birth control. |
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Post by T-Rex91 on May 15, 2009 8:51:36 GMT -5
Some argue that God would not have made scientific advances possible if he did not intend them to be used for the betterment of people
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Post by No Screen Name on May 15, 2009 14:29:02 GMT -5
Okay, since there's not a whole heap of discussion going on, I'll get it started.  My views may be controversial. I have always had mixed feelings about fertility treatments--ESPECIALLY given the high number of children in foster care who are never adopted. God tells us we're supposed to look after widows and orphans--why is there not a bigger push for adoption by the church? Maybe God wants you to adopt. What's more, thousands of embryos are destroyed through the fertility treatment process. This is "acceptable" to most Christians, while abortion is vilified. For the record, I'm pro-choice--but what's the difference in the two circumstances? Why are fertility clinics not being picketed? Why aren't right-wing voters on a big push to end fertility clinics? Why aren't right-wing Christian voters instructed to vote for candidates who want to get rid of fertility clinics? Why is the exact SAME behavior accepted if a person is in the process of having kids--but vilified if a person is ending a pregnancy? |
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Post by nsync on May 16, 2009 21:49:04 GMT -5
Im a pro choice christian and I'm pro ferility(based on the limited knowledge I have)
However, I do want to adopt at least once. Adoptions is a very sensative process. I don't think people should adopt simply because they can not have children. There is a lot to deal with in regards to adopted children especially when they become older, deal with identity issues and possibly want to be reconnected with birth parents if feasable.
I dunno. This is a good discussion piece. I hope more people respond.
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Post by Highly Favored on May 17, 2009 16:06:46 GMT -5
This topic has made me think...
Until now, I would say that I am pro-birth control, but anti-fertility. My reason would be that if God wanted an individual to conceive a child, it would be through conventional means. But that logic applies to birth control, too. Why would I want to prevent conception if that were God's perfect will? Now that I have really thought about it, that is equally as unnatural. It all goes back to what we condition ourselves to believe is the norm, IMO. And the norm is not always God's way.
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Post by No Screen Name on May 17, 2009 16:21:04 GMT -5
This topic has made me think... Until now, I would say that I am pro-birth control, but anti-fertility. My reason would be that if God wanted an individual to conceive a child, it would be through conventional means. But that logic applies to birth control, too. Why would I want to prevent conception if that were God's perfect will? Now that I have really thought about it, that is equally as unnatural. It all goes back to what we condition ourselves to believe is the norm, IMO. And the norm is not always God's way. At the same time--God gives us dominion over things too. For example: I don't say, "I'll just eat whatever I want, and whatever size or level of health that I land at, that is in God's hands". Ummmmm, NO. We have to eat right and exercise. This isn't unnatural. So I don't know... |
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Post by Highly Favored on May 17, 2009 17:13:23 GMT -5
This topic has made me think... Until now, I would say that I am pro-birth control, but anti-fertility. My reason would be that if God wanted an individual to conceive a child, it would be through conventional means. But that logic applies to birth control, too. Why would I want to prevent conception if that were God's perfect will? Now that I have really thought about it, that is equally as unnatural. It all goes back to what we condition ourselves to believe is the norm, IMO. And the norm is not always God's way. At the same time--God gives us dominion over things too. For example: I don't say, "I'll just eat whatever I want, and whatever size or level of health that I land at, that is in God's hands". Ummmmm, NO. We have to eat right and exercise. This isn't unnatural. So I don't know... I don't know that I necessarily see maintaining a healthy lifestyle through diet and exercise the same as I see this issue. Most people can lose weight through diet and exercise. Until they have tried diet and exercise, I would think they were wrong for trying something "unnatural" (i.e. surgical procedures, drugs) just to get to their "ideal" weight. Ditto for people who are otherwise healthy, even though they are not at their "ideal" weight based on height and weight charts. Except in the most extreme cases of morbid obesity, if they can't lose weight through diet and exercise, maybe what they want is not in God's plan for them. By the same token, I would advise any couple who has not conceived, in spite of their best efforts, to seek a doctor's advice. If there are things that they can do to help their situation (i.e. monitor ovulation, him wearing boxers, modifying diet, etc), I don't see anything wrong with doing those things. However, if it still doesn't happen, IMO, it may not be meant to be. Not having a child is not a life-threatening situation like being severely overweight. We are a society that doesn't like "no" and sometimes that is what God is saying. Some people feel they can do as much as science will allow them and still be okay. Some procedures have not been proven yet, but we think they're okay because God gave man the knowledge to do them. I tend to disagree, but that's just me. Sometimes we take matters into our own hands and get more than we bargained for. Ultimately, however, it is a personal decision that I judge no one for. Everyone has to make their own choices - right or wrong- and deal with the consequences when the time comes. |
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Post by T-Rex91 on May 18, 2009 9:11:02 GMT -5
HF, how do you feel about medical intervention in general? If God allows a child to be born with a congenital heart defect or conjoined, should he/she not be considered for a heart transplant or separation to save the life? Do you think that goes against God's will to intervene in their natural condition? Just trying to understand your position and whether it's localized to procreation. Thanks!
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Post by Highly Favored on May 18, 2009 10:13:19 GMT -5
HF, how do you feel about medical intervention in general? If God allows a child to be born with a congenital heart defect or conjoined, should he/she not be considered for a heart transplant or separation to save the life? Do you think that goes against God's will to intervene in their natural condition? Just trying to understand your position and whether it's localized to procreation. Thanks! In general, I don't believe in medicines, doctors, surgery, and other procedures unless they are absolutely medically necessary. However, I am not opposed to medical intervention as a life-saving measure. I view that differently than intervening for purposes of procreation. |
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Post by peppermint on May 18, 2009 13:20:28 GMT -5
HF, how do you feel about medical intervention in general? If God allows a child to be born with a congenital heart defect or conjoined, should he/she not be considered for a heart transplant or separation to save the life? Do you think that goes against God's will to intervene in their natural condition? Just trying to understand your position and whether it's localized to procreation. Thanks! In general, I don't believe in medicines, doctors, surgery, and other procedures unless they are absolutely medically necessary. However, I am not opposed to medical intervention as a life-saving measure. I view that differently than intervening for purposes of procreation. I concur. Sometimes I believe we get so hooked on quick fixes for medical conditions without realizing they are just that. God has provided us with a plan to maintain our bodies; it's just not popular. |
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Post by T-Rex91 on May 18, 2009 14:29:03 GMT -5
Hmmmm. I just don't think infertility is God's indictment on your parenting ability. Heck, there's a lot of people out there with kids who should NEVER be anyone's parent. Now, I'll openly agree that medical advances get abused (the OctoMom, the 66 year old woman I saw on GMA this AM that's 8 months pregnant) but the core technology (like face transplants, heart bypasses, conjoined twin separations) adds value. To each his own...just exchanging ideas.
Y'know it's interesting (potential hijack coming), a good friend of mine was a stauch pro-lifer but he was cool so we could have convo's about it. He has a criminal record because he had been arrested several times protesting at abortion clinics but admitted that he hunted regularly (for sport) and would shoot (to kill) someone in a heartbeat if he felt threatened. He was anti fertility intervention and anti stem cell because of the "sanctity of life". But he was a staunch supporter of gun rights. I always thought that an interesting dichotomy.
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Post by Highly Favored on May 18, 2009 15:00:12 GMT -5
Hmmmm. I just don't think infertility is God's indictment on your parenting ability. Heck, there's a lot of people out there with kids who should NEVER be anyone's parent. Now, I'll openly agree that medical advances get abused (the OctoMom, the 66 year old woman I saw on GMA this AM that's 8 months pregnant) but the core technology (like face transplants, heart bypasses, conjoined twin separations) adds value. To each his own...just exchanging ideas. Y'know it's interesting (potential hijack coming), a good friend of mine was a stauch pro-lifer but he was cool so we could have convo's about it. He has a criminal record because he had been arrested several times protesting at abortion clinics but admitted that he hunted regularly (for sport) and would shoot (to kill) someone in a heartbeat if he felt threatened. He was anti fertility intervention and anti stem cell because of the "sanctity of life". But he was a staunch supporter of gun rights. I always thought that an interesting dichotomy. That IS interesting. For the record, I didn't mean that people who are infertile could not be good parents. I don't necessarily think that is what their condition is all about. Maybe God just has something else for them to do and being a parent would prevent that. And maybe when they have done it, they ARE able to conceive. Only He knows why He allows or does not allow certain things. For example, I have a friend who conceived a number of times but could not carry a child to term. She had so many miscarriages. I cannot even remember how many. In the interim, she became very involved with other people's children, mostly children who did not have good/caring parents. She was so good with children and everyone agreed that it was unfortunate that she didn't have her own. Her efforts with these other children became a ministry that has grown by leaps and bounds and touched so many lives. These children loved her like a mother and, in some cases, inspired a change in their own parents. She became so involved in it that her desire for her own child no longer preoccupied her thoughts. Guess what? She finally had a son, well into her forties. She has said that she knows she would not have devoted the time she did to those other children had God blessed her with a lot of her own children really early on. I guess that's why, when it comes to this issue and some other things, I don't feel the need to "help" God with medical science. |
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Post by T-Rex91 on May 18, 2009 15:06:34 GMT -5
Gotcha HF. I've just heard people say "If God wanted you to have kids, he would have made you fertile". I think that's a cruel thing to say to a person, particularly someone who's lost children in utero. I respect that that's not your position though a pregnancy in one's late 40's concerns me for other reasons.
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Post by Highly Favored on May 18, 2009 15:54:37 GMT -5
Gotcha HF. I've just heard people say "If God wanted you to have kids, he would have made you fertile". I think that's a cruel thing to say to a person, particularly someone who's lost children in utero. I respect that that's not your position though a pregnancy in one's late 40's concerns me for other reasons. I would actually never say that to anyone. I just think that sometimes we need to let God work before we rush to do other things. Sometimes His timing is not ours and we become impatient. Sometimes, all we have to do is wait. I speak from personal experience regarding some medical and other issues I have had. My friend was not in her late forties. She was closer to her mid-forties. I am sorry if my previous post was misleading. She is in her late forties, now. Her child is in primary school. Because of her previous miscarriages and her age, she was treated as a high-risk pregnancy and, therefore received much more prenatal care than the average person. She was on bed-rest for most of her pregnancy, but she and the baby ended up being okay. Women are becoming more career oriented and are having children later (which I don't agree with , either, but that is another subject). Therefore, OB/GYNs are becoming more knowledgeable about the risks. I actually know someone who has a child through in vitro fertilization. She is a beautiful little girl and has a good mother. As far as I am concerned, my disapproval of her choice does not change those facts. I would never tell her that God didn't intend for her to be a parent. That's a personal decision between her and God. Her method is just not right for me. One thing you will find about me is, as strong as my religious convictions are, I allow other people to have their own and live their lives. |
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Post by nsync on May 21, 2009 2:04:04 GMT -5
Oh what a tangled web we weave...
If we say we believe in one thing then we have to believe in something else that is consistent with our original logic.
It becomes too much IMO.
We all attempt to "play God" in one way or another.
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Post by Highly Favored on May 21, 2009 11:44:49 GMT -5
Oh what a tangled web we weave... If we say we believe in one thing then we have to believe in something else that is consistent with our original logic. It becomes too much IMO. We all attempt to "play God" in one way or another. I agree, which goes back to my original response in this thread. I am certainly in no position to judge anyone for their life's choices. I've done a lot of things that people might consider my "playing God". It was important for me to limit the number of children I brought into the world for my own very personal reasons. There are those who would say that I was wrong for my choice and I should have trusted God to give me the number of children he intended for me to have. Perhaps, they're right, that was not their decision to make. Also, my outlook on a lot of things back then is different than my outlook on a lot of those same things, now. By the same token, while I may not understand or agree with a person's decision to engage in fertility treatments, I am sure they have their own very personal reasons for making their choice. My choice was no more "right" or "natural" than theirs. No judgement here, I am just expressing an opinion to a thread. I just want to make that clear. |
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Post by denounced on May 21, 2009 14:14:21 GMT -5
To those who disagree with birth control for religious reasons, how do you feel about fertility treatments? Does anyone on here disagree with birth control. I know we have discussed abortion, but I don't remember anyone speaking out on birth control. What do you think abortion is? |
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Post by denounced on May 21, 2009 14:25:38 GMT -5
Regardless of our decisions, it's the consequences that one better be prepared to handle.
If someone insists on fertility drugs, and they have 6 babies, don't start this mess, I can only afford 2, but thank God for adoption!!!!!!!!!!!!
It goes in the reverse as well. If you get the birth control patch, don't come a screamin' out one side of your mouth when you can't raise your left hand due to a stroke.
Human advancements must be carefully thought out by Godly people, not people who invented them that get a God complex. Once placed in the hands of sinners, Lord have mercy.
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Post by Julie Art on May 22, 2009 10:56:47 GMT -5
Regardless of our decisions, it's the consequences that one better be prepared to handle. If someone insists on fertility drugs, and they have 6 babies, don't start this mess, I can only afford 2, but thank God for adoption!!!!!!!!!!!! It goes in the reverse as well. If you get the birth control patch, don't come a screamin' out one side of your mouth when you can't raise your left hand due to a stroke. Human advancements must be carefully thought out by Godly people, not people who invented them that get a God complex. Once placed in the hands of sinners, Lord have mercy. Ummm, that is everyone here on earth, including YOU denounced. |
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Post by Julie Art on May 22, 2009 10:58:03 GMT -5
Gotcha HF. I've just heard people say "If God wanted you to have kids, he would have made you fertile". I think that's a cruel thing to say to a person, particularly someone who's lost children in utero. I respect that that's not your position though a pregnancy in one's late 40's concerns me for other reasons. I would actually never say that to anyone. I just think that sometimes we need to let God work before we rush to do other things. Sometimes His timing is not ours and we become impatient. Sometimes, all we have to do is wait. I speak from personal experience regarding some medical and other issues I have had. My friend was not in her late forties. She was closer to her mid-forties. I am sorry if my previous post was misleading. She is in her late forties, now. Her child is in primary school. Because of her previous miscarriages and her age, she was treated as a high-risk pregnancy and, therefore received much more prenatal care than the average person. She was on bed-rest for most of her pregnancy, but she and the baby ended up being okay. Women are becoming more career oriented and are having children later (which I don't agree with , either, but that is another subject). Therefore, OB/GYNs are becoming more knowledgeable about the risks. I actually know someone who has a child through in vitro fertilization. She is a beautiful little girl and has a good mother. As far as I am concerned, my disapproval of her choice does not change those facts. I would never tell her that God didn't intend for her to be a parent. That's a personal decision between her and God. Her method is just not right for me. One thing you will find about me is, as strong as my religious convictions are, I allow other people to have their own and live their lives. Bolded part, please expound. I would like to see your rationale on this one. |
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Post by Highly Favored on May 22, 2009 14:25:30 GMT -5
My comment is based on my personal experience.
Although I married young, I had my first child older than a lot of people and did not have my second child until about 10 years later. Although I was more mature and established financially with the second child, I really believe my younger child received my better years in terms of my interaction with him. If I could do it all over again, knowing what I now know, I would do things differently. Twenty years from now, I might feel differently, but that's how I feel today.
I guess a more appropriate way for me to have worded my comment would have been "Women are ...having children later, which I don't NECESSARILY agree with..."
I am all for women having careers and choosing to delay marriage and parenting, but for me, that was not the best decision.
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My views may be controversial.
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