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Post by No Screen Name on Mar 17, 2009 11:30:11 GMT -5
Okay, explain this to me so that I understand.
I always get scared whenever I hear talk of who is NOT going to heaven.
This Sunday, the sermon was about the verse in the Bible where Jesus says, "Not everybody who says 'Lord, Lord' will enter into the kingdom of heaven", and how the Lord will say to some on the Day of Judgement, "Depart from me, I never knew you". The verse goes on to talk about how they will talk about all the good works they did--casting out demons, prophesying, etc. The preacher went on to talk about how plenty of bishops, ministers, missionaries, choir members, etc.--are going to hell.
So explain to me--what--one needs to do to be assured beyond a SHADOW of a doubt that they are going to heaven--especially since we are all sinners, and we all fall short.
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Post by water on Mar 17, 2009 12:13:55 GMT -5
This is the difference between sinners and saints .... sinners sin and could care less about repenting for they are lost . saints are former unrepentant sinners who upon becoming born again were given power by the blood of Yahshua to resist the wiles of the devil . they also see and enter into the kingdom of Heaven while living. you must get in while you are living .....those who wait and wait and die before they turn from their wicked ways in hell they will lift up their eyes. when you really get it ....instead of going to church you become the church... The Body of the Messiah  |
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Post by Noble Work on Mar 17, 2009 14:03:39 GMT -5
Okay, explain this to me so that I understand. I always get scared whenever I hear talk of who is NOT going to heaven. This Sunday, the sermon was about the verse in the Bible where Jesus says, "Not everybody who says 'Lord, Lord' will enter into the kingdom of heaven", and how the Lord will say to some on the Day of Judgement, "Depart from me, I never knew you". The verse goes on to talk about how they will talk about all the good works they did--casting out demons, prophesying, etc. The preacher went on to talk about how plenty of bishops, ministers, missionaries, choir members, etc.--are going to hell. So explain to me--what--one needs to do to be assured beyond a SHADOW of a doubt that they are going to heaven--especially since we are all sinners, and we all fall short. IMO....NSN that's an easy question to ask but nearly impossible to know. We have our Bibles as our rule and guide to govern us, we Pray, we confess and we repent, We do good works while on this earth but in the end does flesh really know? I believe no one knows because God is the ONLY judge and judge of hearts. No man can judge a heart, That's Gods work. That's why I stir clear of telling somebody they going to Hell. I try my best to stay humble and Pray that God keeps me this way. God said that it is through his SON to get to him. And to remember that and why I'm put on this earth is to be of constant reminder that I am to Serve in this life. To be of good service. Water maybe we are saying the same thing but I thought you had to be passed on from this life and years after that to be bestowed with the title of "Saint". I believe Mother Theresa is now a Saint. I could be wrong on that though. |
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Post by water on Mar 17, 2009 14:16:14 GMT -5
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Post by Chal™ on Mar 18, 2009 12:10:10 GMT -5
According to the Bible, we were not all meant to go to heaven. The Bible speaks of a number. 144,000. 144,000 people will ascend into heaven. Does this mean that the rest of us goes to hell? No. The Bible also speaks of a new paradise. A paradise on Earth where we will live again. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Supported text: “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.”—Matthew 5:5, King James Version. Jesus’ words bring to mind what King David of ancient Israel was inspired to write centuries earlier: “The meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.”—Psalm 37:11, KJ “Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance and the ends of the earth as your own possession.” (Psalm 2:8) “He has founded the earth upon its established places; it will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever.”—Psalm 104:5; 119:90 "His own soul will lodge in goodness itself, And his own offspring will take possession of the earth."-Psalm 25:13 "And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. 7 And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. 8 And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand. 9 They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea."-Isaiah 11:6 Though God purposed to take some from the human family to serve as corulers with Jesus Christ in the heavenly Kingdom, that does not mean that all good people go to heaven. Jehovah created the earth to be the Paradise home of the human family. Very soon now, God will have that original purpose fulfilled.—Matthew 6:9, 10. Under the rule of Jesus Christ and his heavenly corulers, peace and happiness will prevail in all the earth. (Psalm 37:9-11) Those in God's memory will be resurrected and will enjoy perfect health. (Acts 24:15) By their faithfulness to God, obedient mankind will be granted what our original parents lost—everlasting life in human perfection on a paradise earth.—Revelation 21:3, 4. (full article: www.watchtower.org/e/20031115/article_02.htm) |
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Post by water on Mar 18, 2009 14:01:13 GMT -5
This Jesus who was received up from YOU into the sky will come thus in the same manner as YOU have beheld him going into the sky.” NWT 144,000The Heavenly Kingdom took effect in 1914 with the invisible enthronement of Christ as King. A little flock or Anointed Class of about 135,300 people currently occupies it. All were selected after Christ's ascension into heaven at Pentecost (33 AD) and during subsequent centuries. The selection of the full complement of 144,000 was completed in 1935. Some 8,700 are still living on earth. They will spend eternity as spirit creatures in heaven with God and Christ and will rule over the other Jehovah’s Witnesses who remain on earth. Those spending eternity on earth are what Jehovah’s Witnesses call the Great Crowd or Other Sheep. www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Beliefs/their_beliefs.htmI went to a Hall meeting in SC it was very orderly Everytime JW meet me it is nothing but love ....I just disagree with them ...this is one reason John 1 KJ versus John 1 NWT totally different bible translations
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Post by Chal™ on Mar 18, 2009 16:31:51 GMT -5
this i totally disagree with. It is my belief that nothing occurs until Judgement. I don't believ you die and go to heaven or hell. I believe that when you die, the soul ceases to live and lies in wait for Judgement, where God will render his judgement. Only THEN, when your placement be pronounced. I still believe that there will be a paradise here on Earth and that it will be totally different from the Earth we inhabit today.
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Post by water on Mar 18, 2009 18:20:41 GMT -5
Matthew 25
1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
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Post by denounced on Mar 19, 2009 6:38:57 GMT -5
this i totally disagree with. It is my belief that nothing occurs until Judgement. I don't believ you die and go to heaven or hell. I believe that when you die, the soul ceases to live and lies in wait for Judgement, where God will render his judgement. Only THEN, when your placement be pronounced. I still believe that there will be a paradise here on Earth and that it will be totally different from the Earth we inhabit today. So then Luke 16:19-31 has to be a parable, which teaches something other than what it is actually saying. |
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Post by Chal™ on Mar 19, 2009 6:58:45 GMT -5
this i totally disagree with. It is my belief that nothing occurs until Judgement. I don't believ you die and go to heaven or hell. I believe that when you die, the soul ceases to live and lies in wait for Judgement, where God will render his judgement. Only THEN, when your placement be pronounced. I still believe that there will be a paradise here on Earth and that it will be totally different from the Earth we inhabit today. So then Luke 16:19-31 has to be a parable, which teaches something other than what it is actually saying. i will not sit here and debate MY beliefs. Not once did I say "This is what it is adnd how it's gonna be. The bold, underlined, and enlarged words clearly states that MY opinion is what it is. |
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Post by denounced on Mar 19, 2009 7:01:12 GMT -5
Those in God's memory is no different than those in Jesus' memory. They are one and the same. You want to discuss a heaven and hell issue, well we have one right here. John 1:1 "In (the) beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." (New World Translation [NWT]) John 1:1 International Standard Version (©2008) In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. New American Standard Bible (©1995) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. King James Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. American King James Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. American Standard Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Bible in Basic English From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God. Douay-Rheims Bible IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Darby Bible Translation In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. English Revised Version In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Webster's Bible Translation In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Weymouth New Testament In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. World English Bible In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Young's Literal Translation In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; bible.cc/john/1-1.htm |
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Post by denounced on Mar 19, 2009 7:06:02 GMT -5
People are entitled to their own opinions, but are facts able to be chopped up into opinion? Beliefs are relative, but truth is absolute. So either your faith is correct, or it's wrong about the Deity of Jesus. There are no two ways about it.
I was just recently at a Bible Fellowship, and I noticed one of the people had a NWT bible. I took them straight to John 1:1 and Hebrews 1:8 to show them the difference. It is up to them which is correct, but one of them is wrong.
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Post by Chal™ on Mar 19, 2009 11:12:32 GMT -5
that's all fine and good. I won't tell you you're right. You can't tell me i'm wrong. let's just leave it there.
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Post by nsync on Apr 11, 2009 16:13:09 GMT -5
You know I have never heard this perspective before... very interesting take. this i totally disagree with. It is my belief that nothing occurs until Judgement. I don't believ you die and go to heaven or hell. I believe that when you die, the soul ceases to live and lies in wait for Judgement, where God will render his judgement. Only THEN, when your placement be pronounced. I still believe that there will be a paradise here on Earth and that it will be totally different from the Earth we inhabit today. |
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Post by nsync on Apr 11, 2009 16:18:52 GMT -5
I was taught against enternal security, meaning there is no such things as once saved always saved.
What I was taught is once you receive Christ you must continue to repent and live a life that is holy and acceptable unto him. Yes there are times when you will fall, but you must confess (some believe some things must be confessed publicly) and aim towards a Christlike life.
I believe that scripture is saying some folks are "churchy". They go to churh, do church like things, they call unto the lord, but their heart are not in it and they live carnal lifestyle when they are not at church. Those are the folks who will THINK they are going to heaven based on their deeds, but they will be turned away because they didnt truly accept the lord and a sanctified lifestyle.
That's what I was taught.
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Post by Chal™ on Apr 13, 2009 18:25:48 GMT -5
i agree with what you are saying, Outtie. Salvation is not a given. it must be continuosly worked for.
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Post by Chal™ on Apr 13, 2009 18:26:07 GMT -5
btw, HIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!
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