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Post by THE emPRISS on Mar 21, 2008 19:26:04 GMT -5
In reading thru this thread, esp. when I read views about tithing, I think about this. I notice that there are a lot of interpretations of the Bible. Same scriptures, same Word, different interpretations, everyone claims they are correct, that they "got" what God was saying to a 'T'.
Where do you get your interpretation? (i.e. when you read a passage, how do you determine what it means in re: your life, others, the world, etc.)
Do you take the Word for face value or seek a deeper meaning?
How do you determine which passages are cut and dry and which have deeper meaning?
Do you read/interpret the Bible literally?
If people agree with you, does that make your interpretation right?
*Dont circumvent the questions by saying "God told me" because even false prophets say they "got it from God".
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 21, 2008 19:33:03 GMT -5
I just pray before I read. I have no reason to believe that an earnest prayer to understand His Word would not be answered. Kinda like, "Seek and ye shall find".
Also I always try to take note to how many times a certain thought, idea, or theme is repeated. There are many in the Bible that are repeated, (Jesus being the Son of God, To have faith, to love one another, to be not afraid) and not just in one book but across testaments.
I also look to see where they can be applied IRL. The story of Daniel in the Lion's Den for example applies as much 2000 years ago as it does now. Every parable that Jesus told also has applicability today. That's my approach.
I also came to the conclusion that there can be more than one interpretation of a passage and they can both be right (I learned this by listening to two pastors preach on a passage and both of them focused on different aspects of it, but both of the things that they concluded were sound and found repeated through out the Bible).
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Post by jay0heavenly on Mar 21, 2008 22:31:36 GMT -5
In reading thru this thread, esp. when I read views about tithing, I think about this. I notice that there are a lot of interpretations of the Bible. Same scriptures, same Word, different interpretations, everyone claims they are correct, that they "got" what God was saying to a 'T'. Where do you get your interpretation? (i.e. when you read a passage, how do you determine what it means in re: your life, others, the world, etc.) I believe that it is IMPOSSIBLE to completely disregard your life/experience when reading the bible...in some ways that helps you understand and in others it can lead someone to interpret the Word in a completely biased way which is far off from the intent of the writer. How I get my interpretation is as follows. I ALWAYS read and try and understand the context of the scripture that I am analyzing. Because CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING. If I tell my boy "yo kid you stupid" that's probably because he said something funny, not because I'm insulting him. But, take that quote out of context and I'm calling him immature and foolish...lol. Case in point... First Corinthians: 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 states, "...As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says." At first glance, this seems to be a blanket command that women are not allowed to speak at all in the church. However, 1 Corinthians 11:5 mentions women praying and prophesying in the church and does not condemn it. So contextually speaking, Therefore, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 must not be an absolute command for women to be silent in church, rather it was a very specific command to a chaotic church where the women THERE were causing a lot of chaos. It depends on the text... I take the commandment to not commit adultery for example at face value, but other scripture, like John 1 has deeper meaning than just the words because passages that are not rule oriented are filled with spiritual meaning and depth. Historical books (5 books of Moses, Joshua, 1 & 2 Kings etc... are cut and dry and the books of wisdom (Psalms, Ecclesiastes, Proverbs) and books like Revelation have deeper meaning. I determine which is which basically by the intent of the writer. Some books were written to be historical and others prophetic and/or books of wisdom. Yep NO! Man...that means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! lol... there are a million people preaching foolishness and people agree with it and that plus $2.99 can get you a cup of coffee. If someone just tells me "God said XYZ" and it doesn't line up with CONTEXTUAL scripture, I'll run away as fast as I can! |
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Post by Search1906 on Mar 21, 2008 22:54:32 GMT -5
Yo Jay please share what you said about 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 with Mr Hatchett he didn't believe me when I said it in a previous thread. That is all. ;D
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Post by GorgeousNgreen on Mar 22, 2008 10:59:29 GMT -5
So contextually speaking, Therefore, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 must not be an absolute command for women to be silent in church, rather it was a very specific command to a chaotic church where the women THERE were causing a lot of chaos. thank you! *rolls neck and snaps fingers* |
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Post by denounced on Mar 23, 2008 7:37:03 GMT -5
Another important aspect of context is other scriptures. What you want in search of is for someone to agree with you. Jay and I are friends, but I would never allow that to cloud what I believe. Instead, it would drive me into to study again, just like I did the first time with you. There are about five other scriptures needed to complete the whole truth on the matter, but why argue here. I plan to do a full scale summary of the subject at www.dontgogreek.com Women prophesying does not mean women teaching men, or leading churches, i.e. Being Bishops/Elders/Pastors, etc. The issue in I Cor. 14 is clearly not women teaching men. |
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Post by denounced on Mar 23, 2008 7:54:36 GMT -5
In reading thru this thread, esp. when I read views about tithing, I think about this. I notice that there are a lot of interpretations of the Bible. Same scriptures, same Word, different interpretations, everyone claims they are correct, that they "got" what God was saying to a 'T'. Where do you get your interpretation? (i.e. when you read a passage, how do you determine what it means in re: your life, others, the world, etc.) Do you take the Word for face value or seek a deeper meaning? How do you determine which passages are cut and dry and which have deeper meaning? Do you read/interpret the Bible literally? If people agree with you, does that make your interpretation right? *Dont circumvent the questions by saying "God told me" because even false prophets say they "got it from God". First of all there is no PRIVATE interpretation. God's Word is clear and able to be understood. What is important is understanding the culture, history, language, etc. Why seek a deeper meaning, when the meaning is already there? It's God's Word, that's deep enough. This is where many people get into trouble, and we get the many fallacies we see today. Let's take your tithing example! I hear preachers say, WITH NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS, that food as the commodity for tithing changed to money. Well who performed that neat magical trick, because it's not in scripture? A scripture does not have a "deeper" meaning, but there are often complementary scriptures that expand or support other scriptures. It is to be read literally, unless the language disctates otherwise. Example: Luke 16:19-31 is said to be a parable. The language does not dictate such. Whether or not people agree with me has no bearing. I still study. When people agree, I ask why, when they disagree, I ask why. Then I am off to study again. Many things have entered into Christian Theology that is not Christian. Some has entered in with INTENT, other with just plain ignorance. Experience DO NOT determine biblical truth. I do not tithe, but I can give the same testimonies others do who claim to tithe, so why would a pastor NOT allow my testimony? |
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Post by THE emPRISS on Mar 23, 2008 23:46:29 GMT -5
Damie:
That is so true. I'll read passages, pray on them etc but then when my Pastor preaches on them he touches on far more things than I can ever discern.
Jay:
Thanks for answering all of my questions :-) I'm in agreement with just about everything you mentioned. Re: "deeper meaning" & face value, I was meaning to say that sometimes I can read a passage and get something completely different from it say, re: my personal life and then hear my Pastor teach on it and I'm like, "THAT was in there?!" I guess that also comes with Spiritual maturity and actually having a DEGREE in theology or religious studies.
Question though...admittedly everything must be taken in context so how can you read ever passage literally? Your 1 Corn. example was a good one.
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Post by denounced on Mar 24, 2008 23:18:55 GMT -5
When a lawyer defends their client, or a prosecutor is going for the conviction, they should wish to know all the facts. Unfortunately, dishonesty supercedes the TRUTH. The jury needs to hear both sides to make a wise decision, but when legitimate evidence is suppressed, everyone is being cheated. I hope you understand what I mean. I have posted only part of what scripture says and dictates at www.dontgogreek.comIt will be continued with both PRO and CON. |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 25, 2008 14:31:33 GMT -5
Another important aspect of context is other scriptures. What you want in search of is for someone to agree with you. Jay and I are friends, but I would never allow that to cloud what I believe. Instead, it would drive me into to study again, just like I did the first time with you. There are about five other scriptures needed to complete the whole truth on the matter, but why argue here. I plan to do a full scale summary of the subject at www.dontgogreek.com Women prophesying does not mean women teaching men, or leading churches, i.e. Being Bishops/Elders/Pastors, etc. The issue in I Cor. 14 is clearly not women teaching men.
Was that not the understanding or did you change your mind? Honest question. |
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Post by THE emPRISS on Mar 25, 2008 14:35:50 GMT -5
Damez!!!
The de-bull! The danged de-bull! You know the IRS REJECTED my return! After ALLLL that!?! LOL!....nothing but the De-BULL! DE-BULL!
aka Uncle Sam
lol
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Post by Nupey on Mar 25, 2008 14:39:15 GMT -5
So let me get this straight.
Fred Hatchett is - 411 and Denouced
Brother Phil is- Water
Jordan Rice is- Gay
Am I correct?
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Post by jay0heavenly on Mar 25, 2008 14:52:16 GMT -5
So let me get this straight. Fred Hatchett is - 411 and Denouced Brother Phil is- Water Jordan Rice is- Gay Am I correct? lol...Not quite...not quite Fred Hatchett is 411 and denounced....yes Brother Phil is Water ....yes Jordan Rice is Jay0heavenly P______ P_______l is a dweeb with girl arms Fixed it for ya  |
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Post by Nupey on Mar 25, 2008 14:55:40 GMT -5
lol
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Post by jay0heavenly on Mar 25, 2008 14:58:22 GMT -5
Oh and by the way... YOU DO NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT need any degree of any sort to be able to read the Bible with correct interpretation. Some of the people I truly admire the most don't have ANY theological degrees and they are AWESOME men/women of God.
On the contrary, some of the DUMBEST, most absurd things I've EVER HEARD in my life come from people with more degrees than a thermometer...
A degree is just a piece of paper, in some regards its good (but still not necessary) and on other hands its worthless. So, you have to take theological training as it is. A LOT of opinion and a little bit of Bible. The funny thing is I know WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more Bible than about 99% of my teachers...lol.
They read Barthe, Eckhart, Aquinas etc all day long and don't never pick up the BOOK! lol.
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Post by THE emPRISS on Mar 25, 2008 21:44:44 GMT -5
true true true, Jay, true.
I could be wrong, but I thought having a degree in religious studies/theology/etc was about more that correct interpretation. Regardless of folx say dilly things (we all do), having a degree typically means that serious study was involved and a person is prepared with the basic tools/knowledge of that field.
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Post by jay0heavenly on Mar 26, 2008 13:30:02 GMT -5
very true my sister... there are a lot of great tools that I picked up at Seminary that have prepared me to study the Bible through a contextual lens, but that was only like 4 courses out of maybe 30...literally. And I could've done the same thing by going online to read the syllabus of each class and pick up the books myself at Barnes and Noble...lol. The professors are hired solely because their published in that area and 99% of what I've acquired has been from the readings, not anything I picked up from simply sitting in class. I suppose its good for people like me (lazy bums who wouldn't have done the reading otherwise  lol ) insomuch that it forced me to read and prepare myself for tests/papers because otherwise, I woulda just been playing Madden  |
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Post by denounced on Mar 26, 2008 17:37:49 GMT -5
Another important aspect of context is other scriptures. What you want in search of is for someone to agree with you. Jay and I are friends, but I would never allow that to cloud what I believe. Instead, it would drive me into to study again, just like I did the first time with you. There are about five other scriptures needed to complete the whole truth on the matter, but why argue here. I plan to do a full scale summary of the subject at www.dontgogreek.com Women prophesying does not mean women teaching men, or leading churches, i.e. Being Bishops/Elders/Pastors, etc. The issue in I Cor. 14 is clearly not women teaching men.
Was that not the understanding or did you change your mind? Honest question.The Biblical position concerning GENDER ROLES in the church will be at my website discussion forum. If you choose to cut and paste my posts or anyone elses for that matter, I may or may not respond to replies. Honest Answer! Thank-You for the compliment. |
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Post by THE emPRISS on Mar 27, 2008 10:20:56 GMT -5
very true my sister... there are a lot of great tools that I picked up at Seminary that have prepared me to study the Bible through a contextual lens, but that was only like 4 courses out of maybe 30...literally. And I could've done the same thing by going online to read the syllabus of each class and pick up the books myself at Barnes and Noble...lol. The professors are hired solely because their published in that area and 99% of what I've acquired has been from the readings, not anything I picked up from simply sitting in class. I suppose its good for people like me (lazy bums who wouldn't have done the reading otherwise lol ) insomuch that it forced me to read and prepare myself for tests/papers because otherwise, I woulda just been playing Madden LOL! Well, that's somewhat true for any advanced degree...I had quite a few professors who couldnt teach a lick! Ok Pastor A-B-B-A X-O-Square-L1 LOL! |
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Post by jay0heavenly on Mar 27, 2008 10:35:48 GMT -5
lol
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lol ) insomuch that it forced me to read and prepare myself for tests/papers because otherwise, I woulda just been playing Madden 