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Post by Puzzler on Dec 18, 2008 10:27:01 GMT -5
What are some of the reasons people say they have been hurt by the church?
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Post by frozenmenace on Dec 18, 2008 10:32:06 GMT -5
A friend of mine got pregnant when she was 17. The pastor of her church told her that she would need to stand up in front of the church, confess her sin, and ask for their forgiveness. She told them to go to hell and she left the church. She has been skeptical of the church ever since.
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Post by No Screen Name on Dec 18, 2008 10:36:31 GMT -5
My pastor has a tendency to...well, be trifling. A lot of folks have left because of the things he does.
Example: he tends to promise people things and not follow up. When I was 16 or 17, I was supposed to be a delegate for a youth conference. I asked him if the church would pay for it, and he said, "Absolutely"! After making this promise, he started ducking and doging me, and not returning my calls.
Fast-forward to when I was 29. Again, I was selected as a delegate for something church-related. I didn't bother to ask him for anything, but he took it upon himself to congratulate me in front of the entire congregation, and announced in church, "Don't worry, we are going to pay for everything related to your trip". It was the same old song--he started avoiding my calls, ducking and dodging, and I didn't get a dime for the trip.
He does stuff like this all the time, and people are sick of the way he drops the ball. That's why there are so many empty pews in my church. He also doesn't call and check on his flock, pray with the sick and shut-in, or anything like that.
It's not always my pastor, though--when I was young (13-18) I was treated BADLY by the adults in charge of my youth group. The kids picked up on the mistreatment, and began treating me badly as well. I wanted to leave the church.
That's one reason I went back and began working with the youth group--I didn't want any kid to be treated the way I was treated.
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Post by Highly Favored on Dec 19, 2008 11:15:34 GMT -5
One young lady I know very well told me about her personal situation at a former church. She was arrested for embezzlement at her job. When the church learned that she was arrested, they removed her from any positions she held and ostracized her. She had been an active member of that church all her life, but they treated her so badly that she left. She was eventually exonerated of the charges. She and I attended church together for several years after the incident. She eventually moved on and has, since then, moved from church to church. I don't think she has allowed herself to become too comfortable anywhere for too long.
Some church folk are terrible! Some have absolutely no compassion, but expect all kinds of compassion when they get caught up.
I think what is key is to remember that there are all kinds of people going to the building we call church. Some are insincere, some are self-righteous, and some are living all they know. Everyone that is at church is not in THE church. And sometimes, even the most sincere person, can hurt someone else. Though the hurt they inflicted may not have been intentional, it is still hurt just the same.
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Dec 19, 2008 12:30:40 GMT -5
It was after I had my daughter and I went back to the church where I was baptized at.
I got so many nasty looking looks, but they seemed to change their faces when they got up close on me and talked to me. *smh*
What hurt worse was when, someone I knew then, he is now a minister and is underneath the Bishop ALL the time cuz he's his armor bearer, he said, so where is your husband?
That right there.............................................................*smh*
Now that I think back about it, I laugh, because "church folk" crack me up about how fake they are while they were STILL IN THE SANTUARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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Post by ShimmeringSTAR on Jan 2, 2009 5:54:24 GMT -5
Everyone in a church setting has sinned one way or another...It amazes me how as "Children of GOD" we condem someone for their sins believeing that theirs is not a sin at all but a mere blimish...A sin is a sin is a sin...Once people in the building realize that the church is just a building and GOD helps all who fall they will be so much better.
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Post by 1neosoul22 on Jan 17, 2009 22:10:40 GMT -5
It amazes me also how people can talk about not judging others but church folk do it all the time. For me it was when i joined a new church and after getting married I started going back. My husband really did not like the church, but he would try to go along with me. Well on days that he would not go with me and I would go alone I would have ministers hitting on me. When i spoke to the pastor about what his main flock was doing, it got back that he stated that if they did those things make sure they dont get caught as most of the men are married. And for the most part they would hang in the same circles as my father in law who is minister!!!! so things got back to my hubby very quickly, and I stopped feeling comfortable going there any longer.
Also as a woman married to a preacher's kid I see many different things that most dont see.
Also most people are just sickened by the two talk of most church folks. As with most here I has had an experience about having my daughter out of wed lock- even right down to the pastor of that chuch demanding that I get married prior to having the baby. Please understand my husband and I did end of getting married but it was not bc of the pressure we were recieving from the minister.
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Post by goldmind1922 on Apr 20, 2009 4:20:09 GMT -5
A friend of mine got pregnant when she was 17. The pastor of her church told her that she would need to stand up in front of the church, confess her sin, and ask for their forgiveness. She told them to go to hell and she left the church. She has been skeptical of the church ever since. I actually don't totally disagree with this practice. It was odd the first time I joined a church that actually enforced it. It usually for someone who was in ministry though. The person was usually censored, "silenced", "sat down" for a period of time to have some spiritual mentoring for whatever the sin was before the apology though. The apology had to take place prior to them being allowed back into the ministry. I haven't heard of this for a lay person though. |
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Post by 123Diva on Apr 20, 2009 5:56:30 GMT -5
A friend of mine got pregnant when she was 17. The pastor of her church told her that she would need to stand up in front of the church, confess her sin, and ask for their forgiveness. She told them to go to hell and she left the church. She has been skeptical of the church ever since. I actually don't totally disagree with this practice. It was odd the first time I joined a church that actually enforced it. It usually for someone who was in ministry though. The person was usually censored, "silenced", "sat down" for a period of time to have some spiritual mentoring for whatever the sin was before the apology though. The apology had to take place prior to them being allowed back into the ministry. I haven't heard of this for a lay person though. Interesting. The church I grew up in would openly "disfellowship" or "read someone out of fellowship", sometimes stating the sin, sometimes not. The disfellowshipped church member was not allowed to take communion or participate in members-only meetings again until the pastors of the church felt that they had repented, made right with God, and were walking the right path again. I have seen this practice do more hurt than harm. Something is to be said for discretion. And at this point in my life, I rather "the church" not decide whether or not I am "fit" to be "in fellowship." |
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Post by Cambist on Apr 20, 2009 8:18:52 GMT -5
A friend of mine got pregnant when she was 17. The pastor of her church told her that she would need to stand up in front of the church, confess her sin, and ask for their forgiveness. She told them to go to hell and she left the church. She has been skeptical of the church ever since. When the Warden got pregnant with my daughter her pastor asked that she come before the church and ask for forgiveness. Her grandmother being a "mother" in the church and her mom the church secretary, this was almost necessary. Well, old Cam wasn't having it. Actually, I told her that I couldn't stop her from going but if she did, she would either count on me NOT being there or if I was there (which I planned to be) she could NOT expect me to be silent. I was going to get up and go off on those hypocrits right there in front of the good sanctified C.O.G.I.C. church house. I told grandmother and her mother this.... Needless to say, they didn't want Cam acting a natural ass so she didn't do it. |
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 20, 2009 8:37:36 GMT -5
A friend of mine got pregnant when she was 17. The pastor of her church told her that she would need to stand up in front of the church, confess her sin, and ask for their forgiveness. She told them to go to hell and she left the church. She has been skeptical of the church ever since. When the Warden got pregnant with my daughter her pastor asked that she come before the church and ask for forgiveness. Her grandmother being a "mother" in the church and her mom the church secretary, this was almost necessary. Well, old Cam wasn't having it. Actually, I told her that I couldn't stop her from going but if she did, she would either count on me NOT being there or if I was there (which I planned to be) she could NOT expect me to be silent. I was going to get up and go off on those hypocrits right there in front of the good sanctified C.O.G.I.C. church house. I told grandmother and her mother this.... Needless to say, they didn't want Cam acting a natural ass so she didn't do it. *In my best mr. Strawberry voice* I NEVA WOULDKudos Cam!!!!!!!!! Man done lost his natural mind! |
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 20, 2009 8:42:23 GMT -5
When I was about 6, a lady brought her daughter to church, the lil girl had on the most beautiful dress! It looked like a Easter drs, but it wasn't Easter - her mom had one some pants, either velvet or cordouroy (it was 1981). Anyways, I was sitting behind just admiring the lil girls dress cause I had on a plain ole dress - well, at some point the "mothers" of the church swarmed around her and started repremending her about wear "pants in the house of the Lawd" - until she cried. I was young but I remember being SOOOOOOOOO mad at them!!!! The young lady never came back.  |
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Post by T-Rex91 on Apr 20, 2009 8:48:46 GMT -5
I was hurt to find out that a pastor that I had always looked up to had had numerous infidelities but every Sunday recognized and praised his wife during service. I know, I was naive  .... Before I got jaded, I was hurt by the general hypocrisy of: - folks cutting each other off in the parking lot immediately after service - gay members being ostracized while the choir director sashayed back and forth across the pulpit - the Benz driving pastors with ramen eating parishoners - the folk who are turned away from churches seeking help while the coffers grow - the proliferation and glee about church gossip I've found a church with it's own set of challenges but at least my old scars are healing. Working on a new set now  ............... |
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Post by 123Diva on Apr 20, 2009 8:58:33 GMT -5
When I was about 6, a lady brought her daughter to church, the lil girl had on the most beautiful dress! It looked like a Easter drs, but it wasn't Easter - her mom had one some pants, either velvet or cordouroy (it was 1981). Anyways, I was sitting behind just admiring the lil girls dress cause I had on a plain ole dress - well, at some point the "mothers" of the church swarmed around her and started repremending her about wear "pants in the house of the Lawd" - until she cried. I was young but I remember being SOOOOOOOOO mad at them!!!! The young lady never came back. Of course she never came back. Who in their right mind would want to be around people like that? Stuff like this pisses me off and I'm not one to hold my tongue about it either. I admit though, that I have had my parents talk me out of having "discussions" with certain church people, even to the point where they spoke to the person instead as a compromise. Man, what happened to being welcoming, loving, etc...? It's such a shame. |
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 20, 2009 9:09:21 GMT -5
I was hurt to find out that a pastor that I had always looked up to had had numerous infidelities but every Sunday recognized and praised his wife during service. I know, I was naive .... Before I got jaded, I was hurt by the general hypocrisy of: - folks cutting each other off in the parking lot immediately after service - gay members being ostracized while the choir director sashayed back and forth across the pulpit
- the Benz driving pastors with ramen eating parishoners- the folk who are turned away from churches seeking help while the coffers grow - the proliferation and glee about church gossip I've found a church with it's own set of challenges but at least my old scars are healing. Working on a new set now ............... MAN!!! I'm SAYING!! I gues if you can sang - you get a pass right???  |
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 20, 2009 9:11:00 GMT -5
@ Diva...it was REALLY confusing to me b/c prior to that - my mom used to take me to Maranatha and when they said come as you are - THEY meant it!!
My mom wore slacks to church all the time.
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Post by Cambist on Apr 20, 2009 9:14:31 GMT -5
See....I would have walked up and "rescued" her as if she was being attacked on the street.
I would have walked up to those women and asked.....
Cam:
"Which one was ready to stand before Jesus and defend making this women feel bad about being in the church wearing pants.
Which one would stand before Jesus and defend their actions of running off this woman in the name of her manner of dress?"
And I DARE any of those old deacons or pastor to say anything.....
I don't mind speaking "respectfully" to folks and telling them they are wrong.
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 20, 2009 9:23:58 GMT -5
See....I would have walked up and "rescued" her as if she was being attacked on the street. I would have walked up to those women and asked..... Cam: "Which one was ready to stand before Jesus and defend making this women feel bad about being in the church wearing pants.
Which one would stand before Jesus and defend their actions of running off this woman in the name of her manner of dress?"And I DARE any of those old deacons or pastor to say anything..... I don't mind speaking "respectfully" to folks and telling them they are wrong. Awww!!! I mean, what if that was all she had. Like, seriously - I know folks who don't have "business attire" and some ONLY have something decent b/c they have "church" clothes. |
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Post by Highly Favored on Apr 20, 2009 9:49:44 GMT -5
I agree that some people do too much and go too far. And, many of them really don't mean any harm. They haven't learned to temper what they say with love and mercy and without being judgemental. And it doesn't matter that they have been in the church all their lives. Some still haven't learned the more excellent way of love.
On the other hand, there are times when certain things do need to be addressed, particularly as they relate to those who are in ministry or leadership roles. I am not necessarily saying "open confession" in all cases, nor do I think everyone is qualified to address things, but the word of God admonishes those who are spiritual to restore individuals who are overtaken in a fault. God is going to hold those who know better accountable for sitting back and keeping their mouths shut, while people do what they want and go to hell. Now, I am not talking about people getting together in the corner, talking and pointing or ganging up on someone like the mothers did to the lady wearing pants, but loving and wise counsel.
With that being said, I believe timing and approach are everything. These are things that a person should pray about before "pouncing" on someone and coming across as judgmental. Sometimes, people are not ready to hear what you have to say. Sometimes, they will hear if you approach them in love.
Love and mercy should always abound in the house of God, but not at the expense of letting people know that they are wrong. Part of every person's growth as a Christian is being challenged by other Christians to live closer and closer to God. And, unfortunately, sometimes, the truth hurts.
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Post by Highly Favored on Apr 20, 2009 9:52:28 GMT -5
When I was about 6, a lady brought her daughter to church, the lil girl had on the most beautiful dress! It looked like a Easter drs, but it wasn't Easter - her mom had one some pants, either velvet or cordouroy (it was 1981). Anyways, I was sitting behind just admiring the lil girls dress cause I had on a plain ole dress - well, at some point the "mothers" of the church swarmed around her and started repremending her about wear "pants in the house of the Lawd" - until she cried. I was young but I remember being SOOOOOOOOO mad at them!!!! The young lady never came back. This was unfortuante and should never have happened. |
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Post by Cambist on Apr 20, 2009 10:03:58 GMT -5
I think people feel that their is some kind of a hieararchy in the church that ranks people according to their relationship to God.
True, the pastor is the "leader" of the group but he is no more above fault than anyone else. The "deacons and mothers" are simply servants....just as the pastor. And while I agree that there should have been some "wise council" given, I also agree that it should have occured in private and with love.
Those mothers should have been called out RIGHT THEN AND THERE! Someone should have stepped in and interceeded on that girls behalf.
That type of behavior disgusts me to my CORE! I despise this type of judgemental and sanctimonious behavior.
And as I said, if you're ever in church and you see the church mothers or deacons (or pastor) looking suprised because someone was telling them to "check their sanctimonious ego at the door"....you'll probably know that Cam is in the house.
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 20, 2009 10:08:17 GMT -5
I think people feel that their is some kind of a hieararchy in the church that ranks people according to their relationship to God. True, the pastor is the "leader" of the group but he is no more above fault than anyone else. The "deacons and mothers" are simply servants....just as the pastor. And while I agree that there should have been some "wise council" given, I also agree that it should have occured in private and with love. Those mothers should have been called out RIGHT THEN AND THERE! Someone should have stepped in and interceeded on that girls behalf. That type of behavior disgusts me to my CORE! I despise this type of judgemental and sanctimonious behavior. And as I said, if you're ever in church and you see the church mothers or deacons (or pastor) looking suprised because someone was telling them to "check their sanctimonious ego at the door"....you'll probably know that Cam is in the house. I agree Cam. |
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Post by Highly Favored on Apr 20, 2009 10:09:22 GMT -5
I think people feel that their is some kind of a hieararchy in the church that ranks people according to their relationship to God. True, the pastor is the "leader" of the group but he is no more above fault than anyone else. The "deacons and mothers" are simply servants....just as the pastor. And while I agree that there should have been some "wise council" given, I also agree that it should have occured in private and with love.Those mothers should have been called out RIGHT THEN AND THERE! Someone should have stepped in and interceeded on that girls behalf. That type of behavior disgusts me to my CORE! I despise this type of judgemental and sanctimonious behavior. And as I said, if you're ever in church and you see the church mothers or deacons (or pastor) looking suprised because someone was telling them to "check their sanctimonious ego at the door"....you'll probably know that Cam is in the house. I agree. |
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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Apr 20, 2009 10:10:27 GMT -5
True @ HF AND...I used to get popped in the head for falling asleep  AND...I still can't stand the smell of Peppermints and BenGay combined. LOL |
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Post by Highly Favored on Apr 20, 2009 10:15:52 GMT -5
True @ HF AND...I used to get popped in the head for falling asleep AND...I still can't stand the smell of Peppermints and BenGay combined. LOL LOL |
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Post by nsync on Apr 22, 2009 9:40:13 GMT -5
I grew up in the church all my life. I was faithful in ministry and paid tithes from a young age.yes yes yes.
Right before I went away for college my chior director embarrased me infront of everyone. He screamed at me and told me I could get out , because I told him that I didnt come there for him I came for Jesus.
Really he was pissed because he was head over heals in love with my cousin, but she dissed him day and night. So he literally would take it out on me. We have to go in from of the minister of music. It was a huge ordeal. I cried like a baby and I never felt the same.
But really my story of hurt begins when I went away to college and attended a white church. That is the first time I truly felt racism and it has changed me forever. I still experience it because I go to a multicultural church now...and honestly a lot of those white folks got a lot of growing to do just like we black folks and everyone in between.
It has truly cause me to look at what I have understood to be christianity with a critical eye. I realize the ministry of Jesus was about love acceptance and repentance. Anything that goes against these things are a hoax and most likely man made.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 23, 2009 11:00:57 GMT -5
The entire doctrine hurts the mind body and soul.
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Apr 23, 2009 11:46:59 GMT -5
Please explain.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 23, 2009 12:03:37 GMT -5
Its sexist. It goes against the natural progression of Human Sexuality. It puts constraints on your spiritual growth. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Apr 23, 2009 12:04:38 GMT -5
Its also racist. It justifies ritual sacrifice on the grounds of fiction.
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