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Post by Sapphire on Jan 30, 2011 0:00:03 GMT -5
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Post by godfirstmelast on Jan 30, 2011 17:32:47 GMT -5
*may be about to state the unpopular opinion*
I agree that Egyptians should be fighting for their own rights and taking a stand. Their president, or more accurately, their dictator, has obviously been unpopular over the last 30 years.
What I don't necessarily like is that we are getting on the phone throwing our influence around and trying to FORCE their president to comply with his people's demands. In America we are way too ethnocentric. Just because democracy works for us here does not mean that it was meant for every nation all around the world, but more importantly, it does not mean that it is OUR job to ENSURE that democracy is introduced to every nation all around the world. Some cultures, *shocker* are used to having dictatorships and/or kingdoms. It is embedded in their belief systems. Is it wrong because it is different from our culture? No. If it works for them and they are happy that way, then so be it. It's none of our business. Obviously this is a case where the Egyptian people are NOT happy with their dictator, but *another shocker* this doesn't necessarily mean that they are unhappy with the idea of a dictator in general. And even if they are, it's not our job to try to make sure things turn out one way or the other. We should focus on our own country. We have enough problems here as it is.
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Post by godfirstmelast on Jan 30, 2011 17:39:04 GMT -5
Another thing that pissed me off was on Anderson Cooper's show on CNN when he asked one of the American ambassadors in Egypt about the rumors that a Islamic political group might be taking over if Mubarak was forced to step down. Anderson implied that the possible takeover of this group would mean more violence and an even tougher dictatorship. I was too happy when the ambassador reminded him first, that these rumors Are NOT true, and then rather snappily that NOT ALL Islamic groups are extremist and violent, that in fact, Islam is fundamentally a religion of PEACE . WTF Anderson as a member of the media you can't make yourself look like that much of a racist/closeminded.
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Post by Rare_Commodity on Jan 31, 2011 9:52:06 GMT -5
I agree GFML. America needs to stay out of other folks business until you get your own stuff under control. How a person gone go clean someone elses house when theirs is filthy...I'm jus saying.
I agree we try to push Democracy off on other countries that does piss me off. Anderson Cooper is a liberal bigot!!!!!!!
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Post by Julie Art on Jan 31, 2011 11:56:57 GMT -5
I agree with all said, except for Cooper, I like him, though his comment wasn't very culturally sensitive.
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Post by Sapphire on Jan 31, 2011 22:22:07 GMT -5
www.theroot.com/views/hed-where-are-black-voices-egypt-and-tunisia?page=0,0 Where Are the Black Voices on Egypt and Tunisia? African Americans have traditionally been the conscience of the country on foreign policy issues. But as Tunisia and Egypt erupt, we have been strangely mute. The epidemic of democratic yearning that has erupted in the Arab world is not good for the United States. America has too often been on the wrong side of the human rights struggle, and now, in a region of enormous strategic importance, we face unpredictable consequences and could end up paying for our long-standing hypocrisy in foreign affairs. U.S. presidents, including Barack Obama, have long said all the right words about the importance of democracy. But Muslims, Christians and Jews from Tel Aviv to Casablanca to Baghdad know that we haven't really meant it. We drew uncomfortably close to Hosni Mubarak in Egypt, Ali Abdullah Saleh in Yemen, Abdelaziz Bouteflika in Algeria -- and let's not even start listing the tyrants further east in the former Soviet "stans." Superpowers have a tendency to side with authoritarian regimes that support their objectives -- or at least pretend to. Democracies are too unreliable, too complicated, require a lot of maintenance and tend to challenge assumptions. "We preach democracy and then prop up despots," Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.), chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, bluntly told The Root. "We do it all the time." The revolts in Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan and Yemen have shattered the prevailing wisdom that democracy was not important in the region and that our allies were firmly in control. The wildfires started in Tunisia, but Tunisian anger right now is aimed primarily at former colonial power France, which embraced ousted President Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali for 23 years. Paris was so oblivious to the genuine rage of ordinary Tunisians that the "Jasmine Revolution" was a giant shock to its Middle East "experts." In one of the worst pieces of diplomatic timing in decades, France offered Ben Ali "expertise" in putting down unrest even as he was packing his bags. The U.S. may not be spared blame in Egypt, where America is seen as the malevolent uncle who cemented a brutal regime's position with billions of dollars in cash, military equipment and intelligence about its opponents. And as Egypt erupts in the deepest and most dangerous challenge to the Mubarak regime yet, the Obama administration sounds no different from its predecessors. On Friday, President Obama continued to stress Mubarak's importance in the struggle against terrorism while adding a soupçon of sympathy for the demonstrators, to hedge his bets. The president hinted that the U.S. might suspend the $1.5 billion in aid it provides Egypt annually, giving the U.S. an exit if the winds (or the Egyptian military) turn against Mubarak. There's always a chance that Egypt's untimely outburst of self-determination will be strangled and the U.S. and its unsavory ally will attempt to resume business as usual. But if this expanding pressure for regime change succeeds, America could soon be dealing with a government that blames us for ignoring, and even helping to stifle, the country's long-standing desire to live free -- and it is likely to be a lot less interested in helping us battle al-Qaida or solve the Israeli-Palestinian issue. The African-American Tradition of Dissent The Arab masses had reason to hope that Obama's ascendancy would change America's stance. His Nobel Prize-worthy Cairo speech in 2009, arguing that Islam was not America's enemy, marked the high point for that optimism. The president, however, was promptly dragged into the post-9/11 bubble and America's security obsessions. We know well the waffling on or downright abandonment of many of his campaign promises: ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, pushing the Israelis and Palestinians toward peace, closing Guantánamo, and restoring the balance between our personal freedoms and our national security. For much of U.S. history, African Americans have been a strong dissenting voice on foreign policy, whether it was the settlement of free blacks in Liberia, the U.S. occupation of Haiti, British rule in India, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or African liberation movements such as the struggle against apartheid. As early as 1900, Marcus Garvey and W.E.B. Du Bois were lending their support to groups like the Pan-African Association (pdf), which linked the fate of Africans under colonialism with the treatment of African Americans at home. After World War I, African-American leaders tried, and failed, to bring the treatment of black Americans into the discussion at the Paris Peace Conference. Black American leaders strongly supported Haile Selassie's struggle against Italy in Ethiopia, as well as Indian efforts to throw off British rule. And while African Americans participated enthusiastically in World War II, the NAACP, the National Urban League and the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters pressured their government to end discrimination at home and to stand against colonialism abroad. The U.S., however, mostly kept its distance from those anti-colonial struggles so as not to offend its European allies. Martin Luther King Jr.'s principled opposition to the Vietnam War won him harsh rebukes. Life magazine called his April 1967 speech "demagogic slander that sounded like a script for Radio Hanoi." In the 1960s, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the Black Panther Party drew parallels between Israel's policies and South African apartheid. Broad black support for Israel continued to erode in the late 1970s as groups like TransAfrica Forum, then led by Randall Robinson, sharply criticized (pdf) U.S. Middle East policy and Israeli behavior. The SCLC's Joseph Lowery and D.C. Delegate Walter Fauntroy visited the West Bank, held hands with PLO leader Yasser Arafat and sang "We Shall Overcome." In 1985 Robinson, Fauntroy and other black leaders reignited the anti-apartheid movement -- and disrupted President Ronald Reagan's "constructive engagement policy" -- by getting arrested outside the South African Embassy in Washington, D.C. And when America geared up for war after 9/11, African Americans remained the strongest skeptics. In the Boston Globe, Derrick Jackson noted that "before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, major polls showed that African-American support for the invasion was as low as 19 percent, according to the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, while white support ran between 58 percent and 73 percent in major polls." The Black Perspective: Missing in Action? That's what makes the silence today so startling. Rep. Cleaver concedes that the CBC has said little so far about Tunisia and Egypt, arguing that events have moved too fast and admitting that the overwhelmingly Democratic group wants to avoid making statements that might appear anti-Obama. He notes that Rep. Donald Payne (D-N.J.), a former head of the House Subcommittee on Africa and Global Health, is vocal on many international issues. But with white Republicans taking over House subcommittees, caucus members will have far less impact over the next two years. The CBC's hesitancy also reflects a recent shift in the role of African Americans in foreign policy from outsiders to insiders. After all, both of President George W. Bush's secretaries of state -- Gen. Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice -- were black. But the result has been the diminution of an American voice that gave people abroad hope that at least some of us were sympathetic to their struggles. On the other hand, the fact that African-American politicians and other leaders have recently been unable or unwilling to make themselves heard on human rights issues may not matter much now to those yearning for freedom. The revolutionary impulse around the world no longer depends on what American politicians -- black or otherwise -- say or don't say. The global village created by satellite dishes and social media no longer cares about the official narrative. Some U.S. experts and Arab governments have tried to blame Arab network Al Jazeera for fanning the flames of revolt. But U.S. media can also convince citizens abroad that grinding poverty and oppressive rule are not inevitable. I remember sitting with friends in Haiti some years ago, watching the Democratic National Convention on television. Several had tears in their eyes as the delegates voted state by state for their candidates. "Why can't we do that?" one friend asked. In Tunisia, Egypt and elsewhere, they're taking the first step toward doing that -- with or without help from America's political establishment. Joel Dreyfuss is the managing editor of The Root.
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Post by T-Rex91 on Feb 1, 2011 9:00:30 GMT -5
This is democracy in action! I'm so proud of the people. I know these other autocrats in other nations must be nervous as hayle!
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Post by Cambist on Feb 1, 2011 9:17:48 GMT -5
I wonder if we are going to fly a jet into Cairo and "rescue" Mubarak like we did Aristide in Haiti? <insert sarcasm here>
I loved the way Obama basically said that this is how the game is played and Mubarak will have to recognize that. Then he said, in so many words, Mubarak, don't be stupid and start "reducing" the number of protesters by force.
This is like school yard fight where everybody circles up and let's two guys slug it out for a minute. The circle is there to keep anyone else from "jumping in" but also to keep the fight as fair as possible. When one dude starts getting his ass totally kicked...the circle breaks it up.
We are being the circle....and hoping that the people win.
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Post by Cambist on Feb 1, 2011 9:21:38 GMT -5
Having said that, we must be careful.
Whenever you have a population as young as Egypt, with as many unemployed young men as Egypt, and as educated as Egyptians are...you're going to have unrest. Also, the real danger is that a charismatic leader will arise that will spit that good shit in their ear and the entire time be Idi Amin reincarnate!!
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Post by Julie Art on Feb 2, 2011 17:19:55 GMT -5
This is democracy in action! I'm so proud of the people. I know these other autocrats in other nations must be nervous as hayle! I read somewhere that China (or one of those Asian countriees) is "censoring" what they are showing about the upheveal in Egypt, LOL! |
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Post by Julie Art on Feb 2, 2011 17:21:06 GMT -5
I wonder if we are going to fly a jet into Cairo and "rescue" Mubarak like we did Aristide in Haiti? <insert sarcasm here> I loved the way Obama basically said that this is how the game is played and Mubarak will have to recognize that. Then he said, in so many words, Mubarak, don't be stupid and start "reducing" the number of protesters by force. This is like school yard fight where everybody circles up and let's two guys slug it out for a minute. The circle is there to keep anyone else from "jumping in" but also to keep the fight as fair as possible. When one dude starts getting his ass totally kicked...the circle breaks it up. We are being the circle....and hoping that the people win. I LOVE this analogy! Exhalt! |
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Post by Robelite on Feb 2, 2011 17:53:13 GMT -5
Having said that, we must be careful. Whenever you have a population as young as Egypt, with as many unemployed young men as Egypt, and as educated as Egyptians are...you're going to have unrest. Also, the real danger is that a charismatic leader will arise that will spit that good shit in their ear and the entire time be Idi Amin reincarnate!! Wow....I was just thinking something akin to that last evening watching all that is going on over in the land of the Pyramids. I salute the populace who used their VOICES rather than weapons to exert democracy. Mubarak had no choice. BTW, one of the most amazing examples among the demonstrating was the sign that some of the folks there in Cairo were holding up that said, "Yes We Can, Too!" Pres. Obama's influence around the world and all that he stands for has gone alot deeper than many imagined. |
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Post by Julie Art on Feb 2, 2011 19:12:20 GMT -5
Alright @ Yes We Can Too!
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Post by Rare_Commodity on Feb 3, 2011 15:57:38 GMT -5
I wonder if we are going to fly a jet into Cairo and "rescue" Mubarak like we did Aristide in Haiti? <insert sarcasm here> I loved the way Obama basically said that this is how the game is played and Mubarak will have to recognize that. Then he said, in so many words, Mubarak, don't be stupid and start "reducing" the number of protesters by force. This is like school yard fight where everybody circles up and let's two guys slug it out for a minute. The circle is there to keep anyone else from "jumping in" but also to keep the fight as fair as possible. When one dude starts getting his ass totally kicked...the circle breaks it up. We are being the circle....and hoping that the people win. I LOVE this analogy! Exhalt! Double Exhalt greaaaaaaat analogy I understand the situation a little better now. Just put that ishh in plain terms a newswriter makes the people more confused than ever! |
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Post by Sapphire on Feb 10, 2011 14:38:21 GMT -5
They are saying he might step down. He's supposed to speak later today.
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Post by Cambist on Feb 10, 2011 15:54:41 GMT -5
Mubarak just told the protestors and people of Egypt to fuck off. He will not leave immediately and will help in the transition.
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Post by LejaOMG on Feb 11, 2011 6:29:39 GMT -5
Having said that, we must be careful. Whenever you have a population as young as Egypt, with as many unemployed young men as Egypt, and as educated as Egyptians are... you're going to have unrest. Also, the real danger is that a charismatic leader will arise that will spit that good shit in their ear and the entire time be Idi Amin reincarnate!! interesting. I'm pretty sure, I see your point, but do you care to break it down further? |
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Post by LejaOMG on Feb 11, 2011 6:30:39 GMT -5
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Post by peppermint on Feb 11, 2011 8:47:09 GMT -5
I'm getting the feeling it's time for the the United States to go into the closet, break out the broom and sweep our own front porch. Instead, in our typical fashion we are getting ready to go mow the neighbor's lawn.
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Post by Cambist on Feb 11, 2011 10:00:00 GMT -5
Having said that, we must be careful. Whenever you have a population as young as Egypt, with as many unemployed young men as Egypt, and as educated as Egyptians are... you're going to have unrest. Also, the real danger is that a charismatic leader will arise that will spit that good shit in their ear and the entire time be Idi Amin reincarnate!! interesting. I'm pretty sure, I see your point, but do you care to break it down further? In places where unemployment is high and the population of young, working age men is high, the chance of political unrest, rebellion, crime, etc...is greater. Unemployed have few options to address or redress their social issues and meet their immediate need to feed themselves, secure housing, independence, or self-respect/reliance. This is true for both men and women. But when those involved are primarily men, the propensity to compete, provide, and survive at all cost is amplified. Add to this mix a population that is educated and you have increased frustration coupled with education about how the system works and the chance of protest is even greater. Of course, this hypothesis is all anecdotal but i'm interested in correlating these for not only countries but for cities in the US. I know we share an interest in matters of international importance and that you are interested in Int'l Policy ....AAAAAANNNND ....Since I don't want to get crosshaired by the scientific community for spitting anecdotes without any sourced basis...here's a few references to read at your leisure. Unemployment Duration in Poor Developing Economies: Evidence from Urban Ethiopia Seife Dendir The Journal of Developing Areas Vol. 40, No. 1 (Autumn, 2006), pp. 181-201 Interesting chart... www.usc.edu/libraries/archives/cityinstress/analysis/graphics/aptable_03.jpgThe write-up for the above chart www.usc.edu/libraries/archives/cityinstress/analysis/laborforce.html |
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Post by Rare_Commodity on Feb 11, 2011 11:19:50 GMT -5
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Feb 11, 2011 18:11:17 GMT -5
Something is not right about this chit hea..... So Obama ask him to step down but says nothing to the folks in Saudi Arabia? This has Africom written alllll over it. US gonna finally have a staging area for an offensive into the Mother land. Using a bruh to do it too.. Say it aint so Kip Ward. say it aint so team...
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Post by Noble Work on Feb 14, 2011 15:03:37 GMT -5
Just found out that there are MORE protest going on in the world (Middle East).
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Post by T-Rex91 on Feb 15, 2011 9:33:01 GMT -5
The protests in Iran are now kicking into full swing. They'll start like dominoes fallin...
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Post by Rare_Commodity on Feb 15, 2011 9:40:13 GMT -5
I just don't understand what the world is come to.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Feb 15, 2011 17:59:20 GMT -5
Just found out that there are MORE protest going on in the world (Middle East). I call operation smoke screen. Long as Iran's President has the backing of the present Ayatollah... He not going no where. Folks been in a revolution within Iran since the 70's. Now if the Ayatollah says he has to go then there would be some meat to it but he hasn't. |
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