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Post by LejaOMG on Sept 16, 2010 7:23:26 GMT -5
simple question. Whatcha got?
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Post by frozenmenace on Sept 16, 2010 11:21:57 GMT -5
simple question. Whatcha got? The Holy Spirit is the part of God that He sent to be with us after the resurrection and ascension of Christ into heaven. In an effort to have a closer connection with His people, God placed the essence of himself in a vessel (Jesus) and walked amongst us. Seeing that we would still need His presence here with us, He sent forth the Holy Spirit to remain with us and continue to guide us once Jesus was no longer physically with us. |
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Post by LejaOMG on Sept 16, 2010 11:34:36 GMT -5
Was the holy spirit present on Earth before Jesus' ascension? If so, what was its purpose at that time?
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Post by frozenmenace on Sept 16, 2010 12:07:26 GMT -5
Was the holy spirit present on Earth before Jesus' ascension? If so, what was its purpose at that time? According to scripture, it was not present on Earth before Christ's ascension. In John:14:25, Jesus states, "I have said these things to you while I am still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you" (NRSV). The day that the Holy Spirit descended on the Earth is called the Day of Pentecost. It is called the Pentecost because it was the 50th day following the resurrection of Christ. The Apostles, Jesus' family, and other disciples had gathered in Jerusalem for a Jewish harvest festival. They were indoors praying: "And suddenly from heaven there came a sound like the rush of a violent wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. Divided tongues, as of fire, appeared among them, and a tongue rested on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them ability" (Acts 2:1-4, NRSV). Suddenly, the apostles were empowered to preach the gospel of the resurrected Christ. They immediately went out into the streets of Jerusalem and began to preach to the crowds. Due to the Holy Spirit, they were able to speak in the native tongues of the people who were gathered there for the festival. This whole account can be found in the book of Acts 2:1-41). |
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Post by LejaOMG on Sept 16, 2010 13:19:57 GMT -5
How do you interpret Genesis 1:2? Does it have anything to do with Holy Spirit?
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Post by frozenmenace on Sept 16, 2010 15:15:21 GMT -5
Now that you have pointed that out, it appears that the Holy Spirit was employed by God when there was a task that needed to be performed. Otherwise, it resided with Him in heaven. At Pentecost is when it came to reside here with us on a continual basis (This is my interpretation though).
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Post by Julie Art on Sept 16, 2010 20:48:52 GMT -5
what do you both think of people "speaking tongues", especially with the scriputre reference Frozen gave?
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Sept 17, 2010 9:07:25 GMT -5
Theo seriously I know you studying and all but you need to brush up on your basics homie. Shessh.
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Post by Cambist on Sept 17, 2010 10:38:13 GMT -5
Heshouldaboughtahonda!
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Post by Chal™ on Sept 17, 2010 10:58:59 GMT -5
LOL!! I've always heard people say, "KawasakimitsubishiHecomin'inahonda!" |
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Post by Julie Art on Sept 17, 2010 13:44:04 GMT -5
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Post by frozenmenace on Sept 17, 2010 22:52:19 GMT -5
Theo seriously I know you studying and all but you need to brush up on your basics homie. Shessh. Vudu, seriously, address me when you actually do some studying and can contribute something of substance to the conversation. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Sept 18, 2010 5:56:42 GMT -5
Theo seriously I know you studying and all but you need to brush up on your basics homie. Shessh. Vudu, seriously, address me when you actually do some studying and can contribute something of substance to the conversation. Why you get baited into a discussion in which you will get clowned ? Couldn't help yourself huh? Brush up on your basics. How in the hayle you gonna sit up here and state the Holy Spirit wasn't on earth until after Jesus ascension when #1 The Holy Spirit is spoken of in genesis as Leja bodied you on #2 The Holy Spirit is spoken of in Psalms #3 Mary is impregnated by the Holy spirit as spoken of in Matthew #4 The Holy Spirit anoints Jesus after baptism by John #5 The Holy Spirit leads Jesus into the Wilderness for 40 Days and Nights as spoken of in Luke #6 The Holy Spirit was within Moses during Exodus #7 Isaiah speaks of the Holy Spirit being on earth #8 Daniel speaks of the Holy Spirit of the Gods several times being on earth. Want me to go on? Seriously before you try to teach... brush up on your basics. Address you.? You're not on my level at all when it comes to YOUR faith. Folks may not like my views but one thing is clear dude... I definitely know the bible better than you will any day of the month. Sickening to know folks who studying to be preachers don't know shit but I bet if we made a thread about not tithing you could give us "scripture" on that very well and why we need it. This and folks like this are your future preachers people. Wake Up. Carry On |
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Post by frozenmenace on Sept 18, 2010 16:18:37 GMT -5
How do you interpret Genesis 1:2? Does it have anything to do with Holy Spirit? Leja, I do not believe that you were trying to "body" me with your question. However, it was definitely my error to not immediately think of the actions of the "Spirit" BEFORE the ascension of Christ before I gave my answer. With that being said, it's all about interpretation. When I read your question, I was thinking in terms of how the Holy Spirit is ever-present on Earth with us now. Before the ascension, the Spirit (God) descended to the Earth briefly to perform tasks as God saw fit. However, following the ascension, God sent the Holy Spirit to REMAIN with us. I also must point out that the wording used depends on what translation of the Bible you are reading. I normally use the NRSV version. In this version, Genesis 1:2 reads, "the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a WIND from God swept over the face of the waters." It must be remembered that the Bibles we read are TRANSLATIONS. If you want to know what scripture really says, you have to read it in its original languages. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament was written in Greek. As Vudu seems to be so knowledgable about Christianity, I'm sure that he has studied these languages and can tell you what the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament say. He can borrow my copies if he wants to. Just remember that reading a book and being able to recall what happens in it does not equate to UNDERSTANDING that book. Allow me apologize if my thinking goes deeper than just the surface "basics". But I digress.... The idea of the Triune God did not come about until after the ascension of Jesus into Heaven. Before that, God was very much a mystery to the people. Jesus came so that we could get to know God more intimately. Before Jesus came, God was viewed as a vengeful spiritual entity separated from man by a barrier that existed in the sky. Seeing God would mean certain blindness, and coming into to close contact with Him meant death. Consequently, when God acted in the Old Testament, it was from afar and as a Spirit. Also, in the Old Testament the Holy Spirit was only accessible to those that God chose for it to be accessible to. In Matthew's account of the Baptism of Jesus, only Jesus saw "the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him." So this may lead one to wonder how the author would know that the Holy Spirit descended unless Jesus told him so? I won't go any further with that...that's going too deep..and according to Vudu we should only be concerned about the "basics". At any rate, it was not until after the ascension of Jesus that the Holy Spirit was sent to remain on Earth, and to be accessible to ANY believer who should seek it. 2Timothy 2:15 states: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." If individuals are solely relying on ministers and Pastors to rightly discern the word of God, then I feel sorry for them. If someone like Vudu who has read scripture, can tell what happens in it, but can give nothing but surface rhetoric, can come along and make someone question what they believe, I feel sorry for them too. Notice how he didn't even bother to give scriptural references to back up his points? It's because his intent is not to really help anyone with UNDERSTANDING anything. His goal is to edify himself and his claims against Christian beliefs. John 14:26 states: "...the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything...." When it comes to understanding scripture and discerning truth, it is not wrong to consider the opinions and views of other people. However, for TRUE understanding you should ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. The Spirit will guide you to the TRUTH. Please forgive this "sermon". In no way do I intend to edify myself or try to show how "knowledgable" I am. After all, I am still a student of the Gospel myself. I am just a strong advocate of people not just taking someone else's word for it when it comes to scripture and "truth". DIG DEEPER and you will find the answers that you are looking for. LOVE AND BLESSINGS!! |
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Post by frozenmenace on Sept 18, 2010 16:21:01 GMT -5
what do you both think of people "speaking tongues", especially with the scriputre reference Frozen gave? I know they say that you shouldn't answer a question with a question, but I am wondering what YOUR view of "speaking in tongues" is. I am really interested in knowing.  |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Sept 18, 2010 20:49:27 GMT -5
In a nut shell... The Holy Spirit is none other than the Sacred Feminine aspect. The Greek transliteration in John in english shows it as masculine but for Mark and Luke it is indeed feminine. I could go deeper and show within the bible where the Holy Spirit... i.e. Wisdom actually speaks and is feminine. This is where the whole Pistis Sophia was derived from again i.e. Wisdom i.e. Holy Spirit.
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Post by Julie Art on Sept 18, 2010 21:19:05 GMT -5
what do you both think of people "speaking tongues", especially with the scriputre reference Frozen gave? I know they say that you shouldn't answer a question with a question, but I am wondering what YOUR view of "speaking in tongues" is. I am really interested in knowing. argjhuiolkuty! Lol! Ok, the way I see it is that the divine allowed them to be able to speak other langugaes without any training in order to spread the gospel. Period. Some believe that when a person is filled with the spirit they began to speak in a languuage that only God understands. That maybe true too. What I don't agree with is someone speaking in "tongues" over someone else. I don't know what you saying. You could be summoming some evil spirit for all I know. That is my take. |
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Post by Julie Art on Sept 18, 2010 21:21:25 GMT -5
How Frozen gonna ask a question then delete his account? *shakes fist*
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Sept 19, 2010 1:48:30 GMT -5
The Holy Spirit is in the hebrew called Ruach haKadosh in Aramaic is its called Ruacha Hakadosh. Both are feminine. If you want confirmation that the Holy Spirit i.e. Wisdom is indeed the sacred feminine and the power that "God" uses in the bible for everything just go to good ole Proverbs 8 and you will understand who SHE is by HER own words as per the story.
Proverbs 8:1Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
2She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
3She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
4Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.
5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.
6Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.
7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
12I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
13The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
14Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
15By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
22The LORD possessed ME in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
32Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD. 36But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
Now it's abundantly clear who the Holy Spirit is... in HER own words. The Pistis Sophia of the Gnostic Doctrine comes from this. Push this in your preachers faces and ask them to explain who SHE is to you... SHE is the one who carries out the massive death for your "lord" SHE is the one who powers your "lords" disciples. SHE is the one who annointed Jesus after his baptism. SHE is the one who provided the Wisdom, Understanding and Power for the earth and Heavens to be created by your "Lord" in the story. She was here before them all. Existing before them all... As a spiritually conscious sistah once told me. " Before HE was.... I AM.
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Post by LejaOMG on Sept 20, 2010 7:58:18 GMT -5
{~~ doesn't "body" people ever, especially not with God's word.
I sincerely appreciate all comments in this thread!
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Post by DamieQue™ on Sept 20, 2010 9:07:03 GMT -5
*Waits*
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Post by Julie Art on Sept 20, 2010 13:09:47 GMT -5
Leja!!! Can you answer my question please? Lol.
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Post by LejaOMG on Sept 20, 2010 13:20:42 GMT -5
what do you both think of people "speaking tongues", especially with the scriputre reference Frozen gave? If you're asking what I think of people who do it presently, I think that most modern-day manifestations of it have nothing to do with the holy spirit at all. Suffice it to say, anytime I hear someone hollerin out "ohhh heshouldaboughtahonda... butheboughtatoyota...fathercominginayellowbowtie" it sends up one of two flags in my head: (1) that person is feeling overwhelmed by the intense emotions running high in this service and he is speaking nonsense and convincing himself that it is of God, and because the culture supports it everyone else will indulge him or (2) that person is actually under the influence of a demon. My frequent and earnest reading of the scripture and scholarship about the scripture do not cause me to arrive at any other explanation. What is more, the "tongues" in which 1st Century Christians sometimes spoke was not an emphatic outburst of unintelligible sounds, but was a means by which to preach or otherwise praise God in languages one had not previously learned for the benefit of alien residents and proselytes abroad As always, I got scriptures if ya want 'em. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Sept 21, 2010 14:04:25 GMT -5
I see you left but I must break what you have written down. Leja, I do not believe that you were trying to "body" me with your question. However, it was definitely my error to not immediately think of the actions of the "Spirit" BEFORE the ascension of Christ before I gave my answer. With that being said, it's all about interpretation. When I read your question, I was thinking in terms of how the Holy Spirit is ever-present on Earth with us now. Before the ascension, the Spirit (God) descended to the Earth briefly to perform tasks as God saw fit. However, following the ascension, God sent the Holy Spirit to REMAIN with us. Not true. The Holy Spirit is Eternal and omnipresent. It is impossible for her not to be any and everywhere at all times. Proverbs 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. As I have stated before the Hebrew name for Holy Spirit or Spirit of God is Ruach HaKodesh. See somethings need to be laid to rest. Like tell your flock it is impossible for your God and or Holy Spirit to be an it, formless, neuter entity. Hebrew and Aramiac are written in absolutes. Either a entity is male or female. So the concept of "God" and "holy" spirit just being a force though the latter changes into that are baseless. Furthermore with your wind claims lets go to Ezekial 37 shall we? 37: 9Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the WIND, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. 10So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD. Sounds familiar? Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living SOUL. Now this is a straight fairytale story here. Lets break this down. We have confirmed that the "Holy Spirit" a separate entity was indeed there during creation. Just in case you forgot what SHE said.. Proverbs 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: You know the rest I'm sure... moving on The triune in your faith didn't start with Jesus.... suprisingly per the story it started with Adam who himself became a God. Of course folk don't believe me but here lets see what your god states Genesis 3: 22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is BECOME ONE OF US, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.So now you have for a moment... "God" the father (really "Gods" because us is plural..thats another story though) "God" the son in Adam and lastly "God" the Holy Spirit i.e. Wisdom who is the tree of life that is spoken of. I'm sure again you don't believe... Lets see what is said..
Proverbs 3: 15She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
16Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour. 17Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. 18She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth herWell I'll be damned... You stated your God was a mystery to people in the old testament... I ask what have you been reading? Was he a mystery to Adam? Moses? Aaron? David? Solomon? Abraham? Noah? I could go on. Stop spreading fairy tales. Did Sarah go blind when she fed your God bread and milk after their long journey? Genesis 18: 1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 3And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: 4Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: 5And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. 6And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. 7And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
Lastly you stated the Holy Spirit was only accessible to those who "God" choose to... Outside of when your "God" blocked Adam physically I might add from getting "Wisdom" Holy Spirit... Tree of Life.. lets see what SHE says for herself.. Proverbs 8: 14COUNSEL IS MINE, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength. 15By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. 16By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. 17I love them that love me; and THOSE THAT SEEK ME EARLY SHALL FIND ME. smdh... Going to deep? You're not even scratching the surface. My 13 year old self was more thorough than you. This is laughable... You're kidding right? lol Well lets dig deeper then... Why is that the Greek translations of the New testament negates the aspects of the Holy Spirit which are inexplicable feminine in both Hebrew, Old Syriac and Aramaic? Why the homoerotic mantasy fairytale by Church leaders? See your rant was an attempt to make this about me when it should be about yourself and the lack of fundamental understanding. The clarity that through Wisdom i.e. the Holy Spirit one will gain knowledge and the tools of discretion. Then and only then... will faith not be needed. You will just KNOW. |
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Post by Julie Art on Sept 21, 2010 14:35:19 GMT -5
what do you both think of people "speaking tongues", especially with the scriputre reference Frozen gave? If you're asking what I think of people who do it presently, I think that most modern-day manifestations of it have nothing to do with the holy spirit at all. Suffice it to say, anytime I hear someone hollerin out "ohhh heshouldaboughtahonda... butheboughtatoyota...fathercominginayellowbowtie" it sends up one of two flags in my head: (1) that person is feeling overwhelmed by the intense emotions running high in this service and he is speaking nonsense and convincing himself that it is of God, and because the culture supports it everyone else will indulge him or (2) that person is actually under the influence of a demon. My frequent and earnest reading of the scripture and scholarship about the scripture do not cause me to arrive at any other explanation. What is more, the "tongues" in which 1st Century Christians sometimes spoke was not an emphatic outburst of unintelligible sounds, but was a means by which to preach or otherwise praise God in languages one had not previously learned for the benefit of alien residents and proselytes abroadAs always, I got scriptures if ya want 'em. Bolded, I do agree. |
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Post by denounced on Sept 23, 2010 10:48:36 GMT -5
simple question. Whatcha got? WHO is the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is God...... Nuff Said!!!!!!  |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Sept 24, 2010 14:10:56 GMT -5
simple question. Whatcha got? WHO is the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is God...... Nuff Said!!!!!! FAIL. Why use the Tetragrammaton for one and Rucha HaKodesh for the other. Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30Then I was by him, as one brought up WITH him: and I was daily HIS delight, rejoicing always BEFORE him; 31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. |
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Post by LejaOMG on Sept 24, 2010 14:33:10 GMT -5
simple question. Whatcha got? WHO is the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is God...... Nuff Said!!!!!! No diss. But do better, dog. |
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