Why NOT Obama?

[Gee-Are]

If Hillary wins...I have no idea who she would WANT to be her running mate.

If Obama wins...I believe he would ask Edwards to run with him.

[DamieQue™]

princeprimo said:

You know what Damie...let me ask you a question? WHY OBAMA? WHY?

10 High Level Points In case you missed it

Do you have ANY concrete facts that would bring anyone to his camp? So far I see people voting for the man because he's black, not so much on the issues he's bringing to the table.

Do YOU have any concrete facts that prove that? Unless you've seen a poll where the black people who have voted for him indicated that they voted for him only because he's black... then I'm guessing YOU don't.

I think he's a viable candidate, but at this point no more than Hillary.

You think he's a viable candidate based on what? Your belief that black people will vote for him just because he's black only get him 10% of the total electorate. Jesse Jackson won some primaries too when he ran - it didn't make him viable though did it?

You're taking the time to break down the CONS to following Hillary, BUT WHAT HAS YOU THINKING YOUR BOY IS SO GREAT?

I'm looking up and down this thread and I don't see where you showing why Hillary is so great. You just offer the nebulous answer of experience and I guess that was your final answer. As for the MAN Obama, I have given just a few reasons above and I could give more.

FACT: Obama was one of very few politicians to speak out against the war in Iraq. When he was campaigning for the Senator seat and AFTER he won. He has been consistent in his stance. Has Hillary? Did she NOT vote for the war in Iraq? Is there ANYONE on this board that thinks that Iraq WASN'T a foreign policy blunder? And yet she voted for it? And why? Not because she believed in it... but because (like every other politician) she was afraid not to. She was afraid to vote against a popular war president (emphasis) and rather than face the political costs of doing what was right - she did what was easy (like all the other politicians)

FACT: Out of Hillary and Obama, Obama is the only one who said he was willing to speak to the leader of Iran as part of resolving the issues of WMD. Hillary criticized it as irresponsible and naive. But where has the "non-communication" approach gotten Bush? And why does she say this? Because she believes it? Or because a core of her constituency especially in New York if of the Jewish faith and she is afraid of angering them (like all other politicians).

FACT: In addition to favoring diplomacy over sabre rattling, Obama has worked across the aisle (with moderate Republicans) to help pass laws to protect the United States on issues pertaining to WMD. Search Obama, Lugar, and/or Hagel on yahoo or google. It's there. What do we know about Hillary's ability to work with Republicans in congress?

Now that is JUST a piece of foreign policy that illustrate the differences. We could go with the environmental angle

Obama and Clinton have disagreed on a few issues since the beginning of 2005, such as a mandate forcing automakers to achieve 40 mile-per-gallon average fuel economy by the year 2017.

Obama voted for that mandate, Clinton against it, and the Senate rejected it on a vote of 67 to 28.
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15920730/

Why would anyone oppose making cars more fuel economic when we have just had 8 years of seeing what happens when we are dependent on foreign oil? Guess it was just easier for Hillary to avoid having to fight that Oil Lobby (just like every other politician)

Obama is against racial profiling. He wants it banned. That should interest ANY African American that's been subject to it. Anyone remember how debated about the sentencing difference between crack and powder cocaine? Obama is for ending the sentencing disparity - something most of us on this board agreed should be done a LONG time ago.

AND PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT POINTS
Remember how we talked about how the judicial system is set up so that it just throws away young blacks futures after one mistake? Obama wants to do something about that - not only setting up ex-offender programs to help them back into the working society but setting up a program where non-violent 1st offenders are given rehabilitation along with their sentence so that they have a chance of rejoining society. Is this NOT stuff we have talked about on OO and wanting to see? Well here's your chance to have a president who has some sensitivity to the issues that affect blacks. Having used drugs at an early age, HE understands that if the situation had been different, HE could be locked up and thrown away (like so many other blacks) and we wouldn't even be talking about this now.

How many Obamas have we thrown away over the years? How many promising black youth have we sacrificed on the altar of justice in the name of being "tough on crime"? We finally have a chance to have a president who understands to some degree what we face...

...and we (black people) are not just dragging out feet about his blackness (and other much-ado-about-nothing issues)- but suggesting that we support another candidate without being able to articulate anything from either candidate. ? ? ? Are we serious?

He hasn't said anything that stands out for me, except when he's taken time to attack Hillary's character.

Then apparently you haven't been listening

If anything, they're BOTH giving John Edwards a platform. I'd like to hear your points of view as to why someone should vote for Obama. I'm all for supporting a brotha in his life's endeavors, but I have to be sold on a PRESIDENTIAL candidate to vote for him/her.

You're leaning towards Hillary without much selling at all it seems. :hunches shoulders:

Actually, as I clearly pointed out, I'm not behind ANYONE at this point...I merely said I'm leaning towards Hillary based on her experience. If you can't understand the experience that Hillary has had over Obama, I CAIN'T HELP YOU MAYNE!!

Oh I can understand the experience that she has over Obama. LOL. For the first 8 years of her life, instead of being a statesman like other First Ladies, she decided that she was an elected politician and made enemies very early on by assuming authority some didn't believe she had (or maybe you all don't remember her first attempt to reform healthcare). I understand that Hillary has been wheeling and dealing, power brokering, and pedaling influence since her time as First Lady. I understand that this is why we see many prominent black leaders supporting her and making baseless accusations against Obama. I understand it perfectly. That's old Washington. What YOU don't seem to understand is that THIS is EXACTLY one of the reasons why you SHOULDN'T be voting for her. But your vote is your vote to do with what you wish. To each his own.

For everyone else: If you REALLY want to know where Obama is on the issues go here:
www.barackobama.com/issues/

[msurbana]

Sigh...

Why is Hillary doing all this especially the wheeling and dealing, power brokering and pedaling...?UH well because she understand politics.

LOL

*SMH*

But at least Obama's platforms have finally been highligted by one of his supporters, because I was starting to lose faith.

[msurbana]

P.S Hillary had more success with her second Health Care initiave. Lets not forget to highlight that AS WELL.

Damie is making me dislike Obama! STOP IT!!!

[DamieQue™]

msurbana said:

Sigh...

Why is Hillary doing all this especially the wheeling and dealing, power brokering and pedaling...?UH well because she understand politics.

That is NOT an attribute. It makes her a part of the old guard. Her attacks on Obama bore all the hallmarks of the attacks that were made on Clinton, Gore, and Kerry. The ends do NOT justify the means. If she is willing to say anything to get what she wants (like Bush has these last 8 years) we won't be ANY better off than we are now except that our President will actually be able to properly conjugate verbs and forms sentences.

[msurbana]

Well here's where we agree. Shocking, I know.

So I guess now we throw someone in that will erase all the ills of politics past. Someone who will magically initiate political change in an almost historically unprecedented way?.

Who's seriousness is being challenged now?

[DamieQue™]

msurbana said:

P.S Hillary had more success with her second Health Care initiave. Lets not forget to highlight that AS WELL.

Damie is making me dislike Obama! STOP IT!!!

Highlighting Hillary's successes is the job of someone planning to vote for her. There's no reason why you shouldn't start a thread to talk about the things she's done and why she would be a good President (assuming you know those reasons). Personally, if you're eyeing a woman for Presidency, I think a better bet would be

Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas. She is a rising star in the Democrat party, is a Governor of a decidedly Red State, and I think she might be slated to give a key address at the Democratic Convention. You might want to keep your eye on her.

www.newsweek.com/id/44277

[DamieQue™]

msurbana said:

Well here's where we agree. Shocking, I know.

So I guess now we throw someone in that will erase all the ills of politics past. Someone who will magically initiate political change in an almost historically unprecedented way?.

Who's seriousness is being challenged now?

You put someone in place who is willing to make a change rather than go along to get along. You don't combat corruption by engaging in it. There was nothing stopping Hillary from taking the same stance as Obama on campaign contributions.

She just chose not to

[Cambist]

I love it when you two go at it.

[DamieQue™]

cameltofoot said:

I love it when you two go at it.

I liked it better when she was just reactionary. She was easier to beat then. Now you actually have to fight a war of attrition which you may or may not win.

<---= will win

[Cambist]

For old time sake, I was actually going to bait Out into an argument by calling her a feminist who supports Hillary only because she's a woman.

I decided against it.......

[coldfront06]

I find it interesting that when Obama first announced his intentions to run, Hillary was leading among Black voters. Last night, she didn't even get 20%. I think that dispels the notion that Blacks are voting for him simply because he's Black. If that was the case, wouldn't he have been leading from the jump? Seems to me he's won over most Black people as the race progresses.

[msurbana]

The problem is ---I'm not eyeing a woman for president. I am eyeing a suitable candidate for our current presidential needs, man or woman.

Thanks for the tip off, because I surely will be looking her up in a few minutes. LOL

damieque said:

msurbana said:

P.S Hillary had more success with her second Health Care initiave. Lets not forget to highlight that AS WELL.

Damie is making me dislike Obama! STOP IT!!!

Highlighting Hillary's successes is the job of someone planning to vote for her. There's no reason why you shouldn't start a thread to talk about the things she's done and why she would be a good President (assuming you know those reasons). Personally, if you're eyeing a woman for Presidency, I think a better bet would be

Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas. She is a rising star in the Democrat party, is a Governor of a decidedly Red State, and I think she might be slighted to give a key address at the Democratic Convention. You might want to keep your eye on her.

www.newsweek.com/id/44277

[msurbana]

Actually, this supports that notion even further.
The trends should show people moving towards him based on othervariables besides race.


Um how did you get down to 2 karma? LOL I'm about to exalt ya!

coldfront06 said:

I find it interesting that when Obama first announced his intentions to run, Hillary was leading among Black voters. Last night, she didn't even get 20%. I think that dispels the notion that Blacks are voting for him simply because he's Black. If that was the case, wouldn't he have been leading from the jump? Seems to me he's won over most Black people as the race progresses.

[msurbana]

But will Obama? *smirk*





<---= will win

[msurbana]

LOL! HATOR!

Your frat already tried.

Yesterday, I read something that called Hillary a feminazi! Suddenly I realized she was my heroine! LMAO

J/k

I am not in favor of any candidate just yet. I don't have much longer so I am doing my own research.


Sorry for the multiple quote posts, but I am rushing.

cameltofoot said:

For old time sake, I was actually going to bait Out into an argument by calling her a feminist who supports Hillary only because she's a woman.

I decided against it.......

[DamieQue™]

msurbana said:

Actually, this supports that notion even further.
The trends should show people moving towards him based on othervariables besides race.


Um how did you get down to 2 karma? LOL I'm about to exalt ya!

coldfront06 said:

I find it interesting that when Obama first announced his intentions to run, Hillary was leading among Black voters. Last night, she didn't even get 20%. I think that dispels the notion that Blacks are voting for him simply because he's Black. If that was the case, wouldn't he have been leading from the jump? Seems to me he's won over most Black people as the race progresses.

They've known Barack is black since they've seen his face. They've started to support him as they've heard him speak and articulate his ideas and visions for America (as has also been the case for Independents and moderate Republicans). I am glad that Obama is making this less about race than we (black people) are.

[Gee-Are]

cameltofoot said:

For old time sake, I was actually going to bait Out into an argument by calling her a feminist who supports Hillary only because she's a woman.

I decided against it.......

>>>>tried that...she didn't really take the bait.

[AlphaMale]

princeprimo said:

damieque said:

Could you elaborate on that experience that you say has yo leaning towards Hillary?

Sure...Hillary has had MAJOR time in the spotlight, in the White House, dealing with delegates, dealing with media types and has served the same amount of time as a Senator as Obama. She's been cool under much fire, which is what she would need to be as our President. Put it this way...would you have more confidence in a new head coach who moved up from assistant coach or a guy basically moving up from defensive backs coach? Just explaining her experience...

What exactly has Hillary done? I don't see it. People say she has experience... Where has this "experience" gotten us? I don't see it...

[AlphaMale]

ghost said:

If Hillary wins...I have no idea who she would WANT to be her running mate.

If Obama wins...I believe he would ask Edwards to run with him.

That's my dream team!

[DamieQue™]

alphamale said:

princeprimo said:

Sure...Hillary has had MAJOR time in the spotlight, in the White House, dealing with delegates, dealing with media types and has served the same amount of time as a Senator as Obama. She's been cool under much fire, which is what she would need to be as our President. Put it this way...would you have more confidence in a new head coach who moved up from assistant coach or a guy basically moving up from defensive backs coach? Just explaining her experience...

What exactly has Hillary done? I don't see it. People say she has experience... Where has this "experience" gotten us? I don't see it...

You should ask Outtie. She has her "eye" on Hillary. She could probably tell you...

...if there is indeed anything to tell.

[princeprimo]

Damie, Damie, Damie...LOL!! I think you'd be the type of brotha who would write an essay to answer a True/False question! Or maybe who would win an award and have to be played off by music until you were drowned out!! Or maybe who would be on stage until Sandman would have to come out, tapdance and give you the hook!!!

All the hours you've used typing about the greatness of Obama (which, by the way you're being TOTALLY irrational about) you're actually starting to turn people off from Obama...

First of all, let's really be real. You're saying all this to really say you're voting for him because he's a fine example as a black man in this country. You've mentioned that more than a few times. Ok, as a black man I get that. I respect the man for that. As I've said, I think Obama is a viable candidate based on what I've heard from him...but so is Hillary. You're not even willing to admit that she is also a viable candidate (which Barack himself has done). You're attacking Hillary because of the same reason he's attacked Hillary...because she's a VERY REAL threat to win the nomination. No one thought she would win either of campaigns for Senate in New York, and she's been in power since 2001.

If people don't see the experience, maybe they should look up something as simple as Wikipedia to learn some of her background.

Your quote:
"I understand that Hillary has been wheeling and dealing, power brokering, and pedaling influence since her time as First Lady. I understand that this is why we see many prominent black leaders supporting her and making baseless accusations against Obama. I understand it perfectly. "

Do you really understand? I understand that you're being almost sickenly irrational regarding Hillary/Obama. She's getting support based on HER RECORD, HER PLATFORM, HER STRENGTH, HER OPEN DIALOGUE ON ISSUES AND THE WEAKNESSES THAT SHE'S POINTED OUT ABOUT OBAMA.

The bottom line is that I dig this dialogue, and appreciate us as young black people invested in our future in this country. I ask for people to do themselves a favor: listen to and learn as much about about ALL THREE CANDIDATES before making a clear decision. A CLEAR AND CONCISE decision...that is all.

[Coach]

Michelle Obama is coming here in Dover,DE on Thursday....i'm interested to see what she has to say on behalf of her husband...

[regaldefined]

ghost said:

If Hillary wins...I have no idea who she would WANT to be her running mate.

If Obama wins...I believe he would ask Edwards to run with him.

I think that would be very silly move on his part, him and Hill are a winning combo if I ever seen one. The disagreements between them I think are for show and necessary to show differences between them, but on the issues they actually stand pretty close.

[Cambist]

lister, you in Dover?

[princeprimo]

regaldefined said:

ghost said:

If Hillary wins...I have no idea who she would WANT to be her running mate.

If Obama wins...I believe he would ask Edwards to run with him.

I think that would be very silly move on his part, him and Hill are a winning combo if I ever seen one. The disagreements between them I think are for show and necessary to show differences between them, but on the issues they actually stand pretty close.

I agree!! JFK and LBJ were heated opponents in "60, and they formed one of our strongest tickets ever!

[Coach]

cameltofoot said:

lister, you in Dover?

Yea i spend much of my year in Dover for school, the other months i'm flipping between NYC & TN. Why?

[msurbana]

All this and my eye is on Hillary as it always has been.LOL

I've seen you hinting about me starting a Hillary thread.

I actually considered it early on in these debates, but I realized it would take time off my personal research.

As you may have forgotten, I do not support any one candidate as of yet. Time is a-ticking. It's probably best that I focus my energies where they will be most appreciated.

damieque said:

alphamale said:

What exactly has Hillary done? I don't see it. People say she has experience... Where has this "experience" gotten us? I don't see it...

You should ask Outtie. She has her "eye" on Hillary. She could probably tell you...

...if there is indeed anything to tell.

[DamieQue™]

princeprimo said:

Damie, Damie, Damie...LOL!! I think you'd be the type of brotha who would write an essay to answer a True/False question! Or maybe who would win an award and have to be played off by music until you were drowned out!! Or maybe who would be on stage until Sandman would have to come out, tapdance and give you the hook!!!

All the hours you've used typing about the greatness of Obama (which, by the way you're being TOTALLY irrational about) you're actually starting to turn people off from Obama...

First of all, let's really be real. You're saying all this to really say you're voting for him because he's a fine example as a black man in this country. You've mentioned that more than a few times. Ok, as a black man I get that. I respect the man for that. As I've said, I think Obama is a viable candidate based on what I've heard from him...but so is Hillary. You're not even willing to admit that she is also a viable candidate (which Barack himself has done). You're attacking Hillary because of the same reason he's attacked Hillary...because she's a VERY REAL threat to win the nomination. No one thought she would win either of campaigns for Senate in New York, and she's been in power since 2001.

If people don't see the experience, maybe they should look up something as simple as Wikipedia to learn some of her background.

Your quote:
"I understand that Hillary has been wheeling and dealing, power brokering, and pedaling influence since her time as First Lady. I understand that this is why we see many prominent black leaders supporting her and making baseless accusations against Obama. I understand it perfectly. "

Do you really understand? I understand that you're being almost sickenly irrational regarding Hillary/Obama. She's getting support based on HER RECORD, HER PLATFORM, HER STRENGTH, HER OPEN DIALOGUE ON ISSUES AND THE WEAKNESSES THAT SHE'S POINTED OUT ABOUT OBAMA.

The bottom line is that I dig this dialogue, and appreciate us as young black people invested in our future in this country. I ask for people to do themselves a favor: listen to and learn as much about about ALL THREE CANDIDATES before making a clear decision. A CLEAR AND CONCISE decision...that is all.

LOL @ writing an essay to answer a true or false question. Homie you just wrote a 384 word soliloquy. Wait for it, wait for it

I'll skip the point by point response (cause you didn't actually have any). I'll just say if YOU had gone to wikipedia you might have found (just for starters) that Hillary wasn't that much of an underdog in either Senate campaign.

Campaign 1
Campaign 2

I'm not sure where you got the idea that no one thought she could win - but I'm guessing it's from the same source that has you believing Black Congressional Leaders (among others) are supporting Hillary for

HER RECORD, HER PLATFORM, HER STRENGTH, HER OPEN DIALOGUE ON ISSUES

LOL... okay - sure they are. Go back to sleep

[msurbana]

(trips Damie on his way out) ;D

Primo I actually agreed with several things you said. I will highlight them later.

Works...a calling.