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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 11, 2010 7:42:48 GMT -5
This has been a topic of sometime in conscious circles. Do we owe the lyricism that exist in Hip Hop to the 5% Nation of Gods and Earths and ultimately the Nation of Islam as well?
When looking at early wordsmiths such as Rakim Allah, KRS One, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G Rap, amongst others you can hear the jargon thats lifted from the lessons. It was defiantly a break away from the motherland infused lessons from the likes of Afrika Bambaataa and the Universal Zulu Nation who was a pioneer in his own right
These pioneers influenced the likes of Public Enemy, X-Clan, A Tribe Called Quest, Leaders of the New School, Brand Nubian, and Poor Righteous Teachers.
This further brought about Nas, the entire Wu Tang Clan, Killah Priest and the like.
If one listens to Only Built 4 Cuban Linx album it is heavily infused with teachings from the Father Clarence 13x and Elijah Muhammad as well.
So do we or don't we? Have you noticed? Thoughts?
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Post by Cambist on May 11, 2010 8:55:57 GMT -5
I would say yes...It was the boldness to be intelligent that set the "seven and a cresent" apart from others. Of course, at that time, very few were being ignorant (unlike today) but.....and this is my opinion....many of the 5% (as well as those influenced by the Nation of Islam) possessed an ability to communicate that focused on the awesome notion that words actually have meaning and weight. Knowledge is surpreme and life is to be engaged HEAD ON. Not necessarily violently (as many today and during the late 80's early 90's assumed) but directly and with purpose. Like a teacher..
Does that make sense?
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 11, 2010 11:04:45 GMT -5
I would say yes...It was the boldness to be intelligent that set the "seven and a cresent" apart from others. Of course, at that time, very few were being ignorant (unlike today) but.....and this is my opinion....many of the 5% (as well as those influenced by the Nation of Islam) possessed an ability to communicate that focused on the awesome notion that words actually have meaning and weight. Knowledge is surpreme and life is to be engaged HEAD ON. Not necessarily violently (as many today and during the late 80's early 90's assumed) but directly and with purpose. Like a teacher.. Does that make sense? Every bit of it. Here is what made me bring up this topic. My son who is about to be 7 likes rap music. Every time he hears a beat he grooves to it. All he has been able to consume is whats on the Radio when with his mom. I don't listen to the radio unless its talk radio and the rap I bump ( Dead Prez, Killah Priest, Styles P, etc) he isn't ready to hear. So I thought to myself let me get his own rap cd. So I went and purchased the Eric B & Rakim Paid in Full album. Now I haven't truly LISTENED to this album since I was 13/14. Even then I knew all the words but didn't understand what I was adding to my lexicon. Triple Stage Darkness, Peace, Lessons, Kicking your Math, Know the Ledge, Actual Facts, etc. The album was very deep. My son has questions which make me feel old like Him: Hey dad I thought Barack Obama was the President. Me: Yes son he is Him: But Rakim Allah (he calls him be his entire name) says Eric B is the President. He nominated him . Me: (starts to cough to cover up laugh before explaining) Could this be the reason why Hip Hop was attacked, raped, twisted around and turned on her backside? I mean J Edgar Hoover said he wanted to stop the rise of a "Black Messiah" amongst our people. Could this "Black Messiah" been the message emanating the mouths of the youth promoting community empowerment, knowledge of self, and absolute justice? Hip Hop is united more people than any person, religion or war on the face of this earth. You find her everywhere with only the backdrop of her heartbeat as the rhythm. |
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Post by nsync on May 11, 2010 11:39:49 GMT -5
To your original question. Yes, I believe there is relevance. To below. ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!! Could this be the reason why Hip Hop was attacked, raped, twisted around and turned on her backside? I mean J Edgar Hoover said he wanted to stop the rise of a "Black Messiah" amongst our people. Could this "Black Messiah" been the message emanating the mouths of the youth promoting community empowerment, knowledge of self, and absolute justice? Hip Hop is united more people than any person, religion or war on the face of this earth. You find her everywhere with only the backdrop of her heartbeat as the rhythm. |
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Post by Cambist on May 11, 2010 14:40:57 GMT -5
"I Ain't No Joke" is a Masterpiece!
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Post by DamieQue™ on May 11, 2010 14:58:19 GMT -5
Hmmmm... hip hop certainly owes some of its early lexicon to those groups. Lyricism I honestly would just perscribe to black people's natural creativity. I mean perhaps we don't really have that now in hip hop (there is some credence to a CT about the shift in hip hop subject matter) but in general before it got really commercial - it was more about positivity, intelligence, and to some degree parties. I saw hip hop as a natuaral extension of the creativity that also created the blues, jazz, and rock-n-roll.
Some of the earlier subject matter was definitiely culled from 5% - I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. And since the FBI did actually keep a file on Chuck D and tapped his phone, I don't think it's far fetched to say that there were elements in the govt happy that hip hop turned to less weighty and intellectual topics (though truth be told - even early artists like Kool G. Rap and KRS-One had street themes infused in their music)
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 11, 2010 19:26:32 GMT -5
Hmmmm... hip hop certainly owes some of its early lexicon to those groups. Lyricism I honestly would just perscribe to black people's natural creativity. I mean perhaps we don't really have that now in hip hop (there is some credence to a CT about the shift in hip hop subject matter) but in general before it got really commercial - it was more about positivity, intelligence, and to some degree parties. I saw hip hop as a natuaral extension of the creativity that also created the blues, jazz, and rock-n-roll.
Some of the earlier subject matter was definitiely culled from 5% - I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. And since the FBI did actually keep a file on Chuck D and tapped his phone, I don't think it's far fetched to say that there were elements in the govt happy that hip hop turned to less weighty and intellectual topics (though truth be told - even early artists like Kool G. Rap and KRS-One had street themes infused in their music) I can somewhat agree with this. As for as the street infused stuff from KRS and Kool G( in my top three lyricist of all time) early on we must understand sadly the dope game and 5% Nation went hand and hand(kinda still does). Like dudes would slang dope and build in between sales. Now I wasn't a 5% dude I was heavy into the NOI but my younger brother was during that Mobb Deep era. I would never forget when I use to take him with me to school(and after) to get away from the streets and have him around the bruhs. He would tell me how the bruhs checked each other reminded him of the 5%'s. If you didn't know your Actual Facts and able to spit them on command from any vantage point then you were getting fucked up off break. Growing up some of my favorite rappers were Rakim, Brand Nubian, De La Soul, Poor Righteous Teachers, Kool G Rap, and EPMD. All had remnants of the NOI and 5% in the lyrics and I didn't realize it until I was like 20. |
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on May 11, 2010 21:11:17 GMT -5
The 5% Nation is a bunch of pseudo-intellectualism created from the scourge of black culture. How in the hell can felons and drug dealers 'drop science' on me? What do they have that I already do not have? I laugh at those bum rappers. They own nothing and are bitter because no one will buy their bullshit albums.
Thank goodness people got off of that corny "Gods & the Earths" shit.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 11, 2010 21:23:22 GMT -5
The 5% Nation is a bunch of pseudo-intellectualism created from the scourge of black culture. How in the hell can felons and drug dealers 'drop science' on me? What do they have that I already do not have? I laugh at those bum rappers. They own nothing and are bitter because no one will buy their bullshit albums. Thank goodness people got off of that corny "Gods & the Earths" shit. Nobody takes you serious dude. You think Puff Daddy is a lyrical genius. lol. |
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on May 11, 2010 22:02:36 GMT -5
The 5% Nation is a bunch of pseudo-intellectualism created from the scourge of black culture. How in the hell can felons and drug dealers 'drop science' on me? What do they have that I already do not have? I laugh at those bum rappers. They own nothing and are bitter because no one will buy their bullshit albums. Thank goodness people got off of that corny "Gods & the Earths" shit. Nobody takes you serious dude. You think Puff Daddy is a lyrical genius. lol. He is better than you, WaQ Dog. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 11, 2010 22:19:20 GMT -5
Nobody takes you serious dude. You think Puff Daddy is a lyrical genius. lol. He is better than you, WaQ Dog. Okay Juenah... anything else you have to add? lol |
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on May 11, 2010 22:57:12 GMT -5
He is better than you, WaQ Dog. Okay Juenah... anything else you have to add? lol |
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Post by Iceman on May 12, 2010 9:04:40 GMT -5
Good Stuff VP
No denying those dudes gave hip hop a crash course in Lyricism 101. Without a doubt, I view Kane, Rakim, and G-Rap as the ultimate trifecta of 80’s lyricism personified. I’m not well read on the principles and teachings of the 5 percenters, but I could recognize that certain lingo and themes referring to their faith were a constant throughout Rakim and Kane’s catalogue (more so with Rakim). Later on, it was even more evident with cats like Wise Intelligent and Brand Nubian as they even marketed themselves as such.
However I never really heard any 5% teachings from Kool G-Rap though (none that I can recall). In fact, the only two songs I can recall off the top of my head from G-Rap they attempted to involve some sort of conscious message were “Rikers Island” and “Erase Racism”. I believe his verse on Erase Racism was talking about total equality between, blacks, whites, puerto ricans, native americans, etc. Not sure if that jives with the other teachings – could be wrong though. But other than that, everything else from G-Rap I can recall was either battle raps, flossing, sexcapades, or street tales. I’ll take another listen though.
But even though some of these guys share the same common religious belief, I attribute their lyricism more so to their pure creativity, evolution, and influence (Kane was heavily influenced by Grandmaster Caz and Kool Moe Dee from his treacherous three days and Kool G. Rap was influenced by a dude name Silverfox from Corona, Queens). When I personally think of “lyricism”, I don’t think of it so much as what you’re saying, but HOW your saying it. Meaning, your flow, breath control, rhyme schemes, clarity, bar structure, etc. When it came to that, G-rap, Kane and Rakim were grandmasters in terms of their oral delivery. Now when you talk about content, then I think more about the actual subject matter, storytelling, punchlines, metaphors, entendres, word play, etc. None of them were too shabby in that department either.
So I guess you can say that we can attribute early lyricism in hip hop to some MC’s who happen to have similar beliefs. But honestly, I think those guys just had “it” and would have sounded just as ill if one were a Christian, one were a Muslim and one was a Buddhist.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 12, 2010 11:31:55 GMT -5
I feel ya. Listen to the Symphony again. Listen to G Rap verse when he talking about having more light than Con Edison etc. He also stated he is the true light that make the people unite. In Men at work he rhymes
Bright as Einstein, brighter than sunshine
Rhymes will intoxicate like moonshine
Total disaster the broadcaster master
Passed ya as the tempo goes faster
Sparks shoot out from the mic when I rhyme ignites
All types of words I write, put in flight
Rappers evaporate to vapor, I drop science on paper
And then build a skyscraper
When I die, scientists will preserve my brain
Donate it to science to answer the unexplained
or from Rhymes I Express
This is hip-hop your optical nerve
Deserves no need to explain
Plain simple, created by the temple, the brain
later he says
I display and MC's pray
Cause under x-ray they are Parkay
And artificial down to their initial
In no position to be official
In hip-hop not the surface or the median
I'm at the top you're a clown and a comedian
and later
Copycatters I batter, G Rap impersonators
Brains scatter my rhyme is the solution
Record rotation forms a revolution
The spin extends another plate blends and
It corresponds to the message I've sent
Here is Rakim he is over the top with it in Move the Crowd
So I'ma let my knowledge be born to a perfection
All praise due to Allah and that's a blessing
Wit knowledge of self, there's nothing I can't solve
At 360 degrees, I revolve
This is actual fact, it's not an act, it's been proven,
Indeed and I proceed to make the crowd keep moving
So from my listening G Rap early on kinda cloaked his moreso probably because he didn't want to fall in the prophetic words of Rakim stating people would bite his style. Sayings like 360 degrees and revolution or the brain as the temple are NOI/5% teachings amongst other things as well.
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Post by Iceman on May 12, 2010 12:03:22 GMT -5
Hmmm - VP, I don't know homie. See, I just see those as ill battle rhymes that fit in with the scope of what G rap was doing back then. Not sure if G Rap studied the 5% teachings in his personal life, but maybe he was trying to camaflauge them in. I can't call it. I own all his cds so I will check and listen with a closer ear next time. Now with Rakim, he was way more out in the open with it. I agree.
Not to get off course, but yo - Songs like "Men At Work" or "Lyrics of Fury" should have their lyrics framed in glass at the Smithsonian in DC. lol - It gets no better. In that verse, you typed of my favorite Kool G Rap bars from that song:
"When I die scientists will preserve my brain
Donate it to Science to answer the unexplained
But as long as I inhale and exhale
I'll challenge the next female or the next male"
That was just SO sick for it's time.
But my all time favorite verse from G Rap is on "Kool Is Back" from the Wanted Dead or Alive album:
"I’m fast and passing the stealth of an assassin
Massacre, in a flash I’ll start blastin’
Fury articles, periodicals
Blowin’ up pools of molecules, Here, read the articles
Every time I built a plan, it killed a man
Mc’s got smoked without a filter and
Stuffed and puffed like Marijuana
Terminator of data and your rhymes are Sarah Conner"
Crazy. Dude wrote that 20 years ago. G Rap was an animal.
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Post by DamieQue™ on May 12, 2010 12:34:41 GMT -5
Hmmmm... hip hop certainly owes some of its early lexicon to those groups. Lyricism I honestly would just perscribe to black people's natural creativity. I mean perhaps we don't really have that now in hip hop (there is some credence to a CT about the shift in hip hop subject matter) but in general before it got really commercial - it was more about positivity, intelligence, and to some degree parties. I saw hip hop as a natuaral extension of the creativity that also created the blues, jazz, and rock-n-roll.
Some of the earlier subject matter was definitiely culled from 5% - I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. And since the FBI did actually keep a file on Chuck D and tapped his phone, I don't think it's far fetched to say that there were elements in the govt happy that hip hop turned to less weighty and intellectual topics (though truth be told - even early artists like Kool G. Rap and KRS-One had street themes infused in their music) I can somewhat agree with this. As for as the street infused stuff from KRS and Kool G( in my top three lyricist of all time) early on we must understand sadly the dope game and 5% Nation went hand and hand(kinda still does). Like dudes would slang dope and build in between sales. Now I wasn't a 5% dude I was heavy into the NOI but my younger brother was during that Mobb Deep era. I would never forget when I use to take him with me to school(and after) to get away from the streets and have him around the bruhs. He would tell me how the bruhs checked each other reminded him of the 5%'s. If you didn't know your Actual Facts and able to spit them on command from any vantage point then you were getting fucked up off break. Growing up some of my favorite rappers were Rakim, Brand Nubian, De La Soul, Poor Righteous Teachers, Kool G Rap, and EPMD. All had remnants of the NOI and 5% in the lyrics and I didn't realize it until I was like 20. |
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Post by nsync on May 12, 2010 14:20:34 GMT -5
The justification is that they are rightfully going against a system that does not support their beliefs and ways of life.
This is kinda like folks saying how can folks be muslim, christian...etc and use the respectively religions to blow up stuff like trains and abortion clinics.
Folks somehow fit religion into their own desires and viewpoints. This has been going on forever.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 12, 2010 14:37:13 GMT -5
I can somewhat agree with this. As for as the street infused stuff from KRS and Kool G( in my top three lyricist of all time) early on we must understand sadly the dope game and 5% Nation went hand and hand(kinda still does). Like dudes would slang dope and build in between sales. Now I wasn't a 5% dude I was heavy into the NOI but my younger brother was during that Mobb Deep era. I would never forget when I use to take him with me to school(and after) to get away from the streets and have him around the bruhs. He would tell me how the bruhs checked each other reminded him of the 5%'s. If you didn't know your Actual Facts and able to spit them on command from any vantage point then you were getting fucked up off break. Growing up some of my favorite rappers were Rakim, Brand Nubian, De La Soul, Poor Righteous Teachers, Kool G Rap, and EPMD. All had remnants of the NOI and 5% in the lyrics and I didn't realize it until I was like 20. I thought the same thing Damie until I started on my Masters. Like reading the Guide to Drug Development thus far has blown me away. The Pharmaceutical companies slang more dope in one day worldwide than is slanged in the hood for a year. Same substances same outcome different circumstances. I mean we have the elderly eating cat food just so they can have their med's which they are addicted to. It's sad. Dope is Dope. |
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Post by nsync on May 12, 2010 14:39:59 GMT -5
^^^^^This is true. Move over Big Tabacco---the Pharmc's are the new sleeping giant.
However, folks STILL need to stop slanging drugs in the hood regardless of what the pharm companies are doing. They are two different battles in the same community.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 12, 2010 14:56:12 GMT -5
^^^^^This is true. Move over Big Tabacco---the Pharmc's are the new sleeping giant. However, folks STILL need to stop slanging drugs in the hood regardless of what the pharm companies are doing. They are two different battles in the same community. I disagree. I think the fallout of the drug game would cease if it were legal to do it. Turf wars happen when the police make the block hot. Liek I said before you take a woman's kids away put them in fostercare and then get them hooked on the same chit the mom was on just under a new name. The business man in me cant tell a brother or sistah dont sell dope. People want to get high. Furthermore if we stop looking at dope and look at WHY people want to get high in the first place then we can solve our problems. Basically you can stop all drug dealing in the hood right now if the conditions don't change the people who can cope will find a way to make it and those who can't we find something to take their minds off of the condition. The solution isn't locking up young black men for 20 years over crack when Pfizer is killing babies in Nigeria during clinical trials. Not buying it. |
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Post by DamieQue™ on May 12, 2010 15:10:20 GMT -5
See? That's what I'm talking about. I'm glad someone else observed this. I could never really understand how they reconciled this contradiction. I thought they were supposed to be Muslims (but they're really not, not in the Abrahamic sense - they're not even really NOI by most people's accounts). Anyway, Rakim was and is my favorite rapper - so I begin to hear alot of that jargon by artist like himself and others I thought the same thing Damie until I started on my Masters. Like reading the Guide to Drug Development thus far has blown me away. The Pharmaceutical companies slang more dope in one day worldwide than is slanged in the hood for a year. Same substances same outcome different circumstances. I mean we have the elderly eating cat food just so they can have their med's which they are addicted to. It's sad. Dope is Dope. some many cases worse with the pharmaceuticals) and the circumstances under which they're given are different (as you mentioned).
I guess where I draw the line today is intent. There is no therapeutic value to crack or cocaine that I'm aware of - it's purely recreational. Once the addiction is formed, it is essentially a poision (not unlike tobacco). And I just can't sign on to any philosophical way of life that justifies poisioning others intentionally. If I don't give Big Tobacco a pass for it, I can't give them one either.
And that was my chief objection back in the day... but again, that's back when I thought they were adherents to Islam - they do not claim to be. They view Islam as a science not a religion. And by their concept of God they could not be Muslims - they will tell you as much - in part based on "submission" and the idea that God doesn't submit (you're probably already familiar with this - I'm really just posting it for the benefit of others who read this thread).
So on one hand I don't really see that there's a contradiction anymore (by their own declaration and affirmation they are not Muslims) but I also don't really believe that corporations depravity somehow makes theirs right. We know what drugs have done to our community. What Pfizer does to Middle Class America doesn't excuse slanging in our neighborhoods. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 12, 2010 15:28:56 GMT -5
I thought the same thing Damie until I started on my Masters. Like reading the Guide to Drug Development thus far has blown me away. The Pharmaceutical companies slang more dope in one day worldwide than is slanged in the hood for a year. Same substances same outcome different circumstances. I mean we have the elderly eating cat food just so they can have their med's which they are addicted to. It's sad. Dope is Dope. some many cases worse with the pharmaceuticals) and the circumstances under which they're given are different (as you mentioned).
I guess where I draw the line today is intent. There is no therapeutic value to crack or cocaine that I'm aware of - it's purely recreational. Once the addiction is formed, it is essentially a poision (not unlike tobacco). And I just can't sign on to any philosophical way of life that justifies poisioning others intentionally. If I don't give Big Tobacco a pass for it, I can't give them one either.
And that was my chief objection back in the day... but again, that's back when I thought they were adherents to Islam - they do not claim to be. They view Islam as a science not a religion. And by their concept of God they could not be Muslims - they will tell you as much - in part based on "submission" and the idea that God doesn't submit (you're probably already familiar with this - I'm really just posting it for the benefit of others who read this thread).
So on one hand I don't really see that there's a contradiction anymore (by their own declaration and affirmation they are not Muslims) but I also don't really believe that corporations depravity somehow makes theirs right. We know what drugs have done to our community. What Pfizer does to Middle Class America doesn't excuse slanging in our neighborhoods. But has drugs destroyed our communities. Do you believe if all drugs were gone tonight the community will be better off? If so explain. Thats just my thing when does the line end. Rappers get blamed for misogyny in an attempt to sell records BUT we support our favorite football and basketball teams who have scantily clad women gyrating everywhere sell alcohol during entertainment making millions and nobody says anything. We frown upon drug dealers and not the conditions in place but yet and still we walk up in a CVS, Rite Aid etc with no problem and spend our dollars. If you gonna accept one then you have to accept the other. If you give one a pass then you have to give the other. If not then in my estimation its a glaring contradiction. As far as not being real Islam its funny that you said that. Yanno Elijah Muhammad told them in 1930 the white man was the devil and they didn't believe him. The mainstream Muslims said it wasn't real Islam... I ask them now what do they think. Look at Iraq, Iran, India, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Do ye now believe? lol Not dealing with the 5% over the dope game chit was my reason to THOUGH I was feeling the teachings that the Black man is God because we are just not how they were spinning it. We are the Guardian of Destiny. The child who sits on the sacred feminine mother's lap.... |
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Post by DamieQue™ on May 12, 2010 16:16:46 GMT -5
Here's what's weird. I'm not a weed smoker... never have been - but I am one of those folks who adamantly feels that any argument that justifies alcohol or tobbacco - also justifies just about any other drug. I don't necessarily agree that they're the same substances but I do agree that the outcomes are similiar (and in some many cases worse with the pharmaceuticals) and the circumstances under which they're given are different (as you mentioned).
I guess where I draw the line today is intent. There is no therapeutic value to crack or cocaine that I'm aware of - it's purely recreational. Once the addiction is formed, it is essentially a poision (not unlike tobacco). And I just can't sign on to any philosophical way of life that justifies poisioning others intentionally. If I don't give Big Tobacco a pass for it, I can't give them one either.
And that was my chief objection back in the day... but again, that's back when I thought they were adherents to Islam - they do not claim to be. They view Islam as a science not a religion. And by their concept of God they could not be Muslims - they will tell you as much - in part based on "submission" and the idea that God doesn't submit (you're probably already familiar with this - I'm really just posting it for the benefit of others who read this thread).
So on one hand I don't really see that there's a contradiction anymore (by their own declaration and affirmation they are not Muslims) but I also don't really believe that corporations depravity somehow makes theirs right. We know what drugs have done to our community. What Pfizer does to Middle Class America doesn't excuse slanging in our neighborhoods. But has drugs destroyed our communities. Do you believe if all drugs were gone tonight the community will be better off? If so explain. Thats just my thing when does the line end. Rappers get blamed for misogyny in an attempt to sell records BUT we support our favorite football and basketball teams who have scantily clad women gyrating everywhere sell alcohol during entertainment making millions and nobody says anything. We frown upon drug dealers and not the conditions in place but yet and still we walk up in a CVS, Rite Aid etc with no problem and spend our dollars. If you gonna accept one then you have to accept the other. If you give one a pass then you have to give the other. If not then in my estimation its a glaring contradiction. As far as not being real Islam its funny that you said that. Yanno Elijah Muhammad told them in 1930 the white man was the devil and they didn't believe him. The mainstream Muslims said it wasn't real Islam... I ask them now what do they think. Look at Iraq, Iran, India, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Do ye now believe? lol Not dealing with the 5% over the dope game chit was my reason to THOUGH I was feeling the teachings that the Black man is God because we are just not how they were spinning it. We are the Guardian of Destiny. The child who sits on the sacred feminine mother's lap....
...drugs. More specifically chemical dependency.
You'd be tempted to say poverty but that's not the answer (IMO). Black people have done poverty since we've been here. We knew how to deal with it - few of us on this board had anything other than poor parents and poor grand parents. As a people we could deal with temporary poverty because we still valued education and were not distracted by chasing a high, or supplying it in the chase of easy money. Was povery a mitigating factor in allowing drugs to destoy us? Sure. But all things being equal, poverty never keeps ANY group down. Not Black, not Irish, Italian, German, Chinese, Mexican etc. If all that was left was poverty to keep us down we were poised to rise...
...until we were introduced to chemical dependency (and that dependency is experienced by both the buyer and the seller). We guaranteed a future in law enforcement (i.e the war on drugs), guaranteed a future of broken homes without strong stable family units that valued education, and virtually guranteed an unending stream of under performing students simply because they were born to an environment that tells them this is all there is (i.e. a consumer class unable to rise out of it's condition). And the best part of it, it's a self-sustaining system. Bruh, point blank Drugs are just the new slavery, and each person slanging is an overseer. I'm not discounting what you're saying - but there is no justification for being a direct input into keeping your own people down. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 12, 2010 16:32:38 GMT -5
But has drugs destroyed our communities. Do you believe if all drugs were gone tonight the community will be better off? If so explain. Thats just my thing when does the line end. Rappers get blamed for misogyny in an attempt to sell records BUT we support our favorite football and basketball teams who have scantily clad women gyrating everywhere sell alcohol during entertainment making millions and nobody says anything. We frown upon drug dealers and not the conditions in place but yet and still we walk up in a CVS, Rite Aid etc with no problem and spend our dollars. If you gonna accept one then you have to accept the other. If you give one a pass then you have to give the other. If not then in my estimation its a glaring contradiction. As far as not being real Islam its funny that you said that. Yanno Elijah Muhammad told them in 1930 the white man was the devil and they didn't believe him. The mainstream Muslims said it wasn't real Islam... I ask them now what do they think. Look at Iraq, Iran, India, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Do ye now believe? lol Not dealing with the 5% over the dope game chit was my reason to THOUGH I was feeling the teachings that the Black man is God because we are just not how they were spinning it. We are the Guardian of Destiny. The child who sits on the sacred feminine mother's lap....
...drugs. More specifically chemical dependency.
You'd be tempted to say poverty but that's not the answer (IMO). Black people have done poverty since we've been here. We knew how to deal with it - few of us on this board had anything other than poor parents and poor grand parents. As a people we could deal with temporary poverty because we still valued education and were not distracted by chasing a high, or supplying it in the chase of easy money. Was povery a mitigating factor in allowing drugs to destoy us? Sure. But all things being equal, poverty never keeps ANY group down. Not Black, not Irish, Italian, German, Chinese, Mexican etc. If all that was left was poverty to keep us down we were poised to rise...
...until we were introduced to chemical dependency (and that dependency is experienced by both the buyer and the seller). We guaranteed a future in law enforcement (i.e the war on drugs), guaranteed a future of broken homes without strong stable family units that valued education, and virtually guranteed an unending stream of under performing students simply because they were born to an environment that tells them this is all there is (i.e. a consumer class unable to rise out of it's condition). And the best part of it, it's a self-sustaining system. Bruh, point blank Drugs are just the new slavery, and each person slanging is an overseer. I'm not discounting what you're saying - but there is no justification for being a direct input into keeping your own people down. I hear ya but drugs have been in our communities since the early 1900's. First it was cocaine then it was during the roaring 20's Heroin was the drug of choice in Jazz circles. So drugs had already taken a foot hole in the community before civil rights movement even came about. Furthermore putting women on the stroll was also common place. So slanging heroin, pimping and numbers running were the norm by the 30's and 40's. Women and Men ran this market with Women being the original pimps and men controlling the dope and numbers. So we can't state drugs came after the Civil Rights movement when millions of dope money in many ways funded it in the first place. It also existed in the music and movies. The problem arose when youngins took over the underworld. I mean basically there was a code in the 20's to the 70's. When crack came on the scene all hell broke loose and all codes were crossed in the process. |
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Post by DamieQue™ on May 12, 2010 16:53:00 GMT -5
I look at it like this. If you choose to, you can look at history (in particular the history of the African American) as a series of socially enacted control mechanisms to create a permanent lower class (some say that capitialism depends on there being a lower class which is entirely a consumer class). Anyway - first it was slavery and making it illegal for slaves to be able to read, then it was share cropping and Jim Crow, and then voting laws... when the Civil Rights Era was poised to wipe all that away what mechanism was left to keep this population a purely consumer class? You couldn't encode it into law anymore - you couldn't physically break up families like you did under slavery... so what could you do? What could accomplish everything that slavery, Jim Crow, and Voting laws accomplished without being law...
...drugs. More specifically chemical dependency.
You'd be tempted to say poverty but that's not the answer (IMO). Black people have done poverty since we've been here. We knew how to deal with it - few of us on this board had anything other than poor parents and poor grand parents. As a people we could deal with temporary poverty because we still valued education and were not distracted by chasing a high, or supplying it in the chase of easy money. Was povery a mitigating factor in allowing drugs to destoy us? Sure. But all things being equal, poverty never keeps ANY group down. Not Black, not Irish, Italian, German, Chinese, Mexican etc. If all that was left was poverty to keep us down we were poised to rise...
...until we were introduced to chemical dependency (and that dependency is experienced by both the buyer and the seller). We guaranteed a future in law enforcement (i.e the war on drugs), guaranteed a future of broken homes without strong stable family units that valued education, and virtually guranteed an unending stream of under performing students simply because they were born to an environment that tells them this is all there is (i.e. a consumer class unable to rise out of it's condition). And the best part of it, it's a self-sustaining system. Bruh, point blank Drugs are just the new slavery, and each person slanging is an overseer. I'm not discounting what you're saying - but there is no justification for being a direct input into keeping your own people down. I hear ya but drugs have been in our communities since the early 1900's. First it was cocaine then it was during the roaring 20's Heroin was the drug of choice in Jazz circles. So drugs had already taken a foot hole in the community before civil rights movement even came about. Furthermore putting women on the stroll was also common place. So slanging heroin, pimping and numbers running were the norm by the 30's and 40's. Women and Men ran this market with Women being the original pimps and men controlling the dope and numbers. So we can't state drugs came after the Civil Rights movement when millions of dope money in many ways funded it in the first place. It also existed in the music and movies. The problem arose when youngins took over the underworld. I mean basically there was a code in the 20's to the 70's. When crack came on the scene all hell broke loose and all codes were crossed in the process.
I agree that crime in general predates what I like to call the Cocaine era, but as I pointed out - the majority of the black family unit was still together and still not chemically dependent. What we taught our kids then was education was the key. Without parents there to teach kids, they learned what they thought was right via the media - and during the 80's you'll remember that was the "me" generation. That was the first generation to really embrace greed and self-absorption as a birth right on a global scale. So you've got the black community both dependent on selling and using this drug, a lack of direction from the accumlated wisdom of parents, and an atmosphere that says, "it's all about you right here, right now" and this is what we got.
Bear in mind I'm not saying we were the only ones involved in drugs... but we already know that the affluent and influential flaut the law all the time, even when caught. We didn't have that. We couldn't get ouf of jail time. Couldn't circumvent the system because we knew the guy in charge. Couldn't have the policeman keep something off the records and bring it to us personally to allow us to handle it in-house. Affluence and Influence were the 2 things we didn't have in abundance that others had been stockpiling and flipping from generation to generation since they got here. This epidemic was uniquely able to hold US back and turn us into a pure consumer class. Can it really be coincidence that this "perfect storm" epidemic hits us RIGHT when there is nothing else to hold us back? Right when we are poised to rise unfettered and challenging for jobs traditionally held off limits from us? Could the self-sustaining mechanism used to keep people chemically enslaved and physically imprisoned truly come about at the exact moment it would be most devastating by chance? |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 12, 2010 19:15:48 GMT -5
I hear ya but drugs have been in our communities since the early 1900's. First it was cocaine then it was during the roaring 20's Heroin was the drug of choice in Jazz circles. So drugs had already taken a foot hole in the community before civil rights movement even came about. Furthermore putting women on the stroll was also common place. So slanging heroin, pimping and numbers running were the norm by the 30's and 40's. Women and Men ran this market with Women being the original pimps and men controlling the dope and numbers. So we can't state drugs came after the Civil Rights movement when millions of dope money in many ways funded it in the first place. It also existed in the music and movies. The problem arose when youngins took over the underworld. I mean basically there was a code in the 20's to the 70's. When crack came on the scene all hell broke loose and all codes were crossed in the process.
I agree that crime in general predates what I like to call the Cocaine era, but as I pointed out - the majority of the black family unit was still together and still not chemically dependent. What we taught our kids then was education was the key. Without parents there to teach kids, they learned what they thought was right via the media - and during the 80's you'll remember that was the "me" generation. That was the first generation to really embrace greed and self-absorption as a birth right on a global scale. So you've got the black community both dependent on selling and using this drug, a lack of direction from the accumlated wisdom of parents, and an atmosphere that says, "it's all about you right here, right now" and this is what we got.
Bear in mind I'm not saying we were the only ones involved in drugs... but we already know that the affluent and influential flaut the law all the time, even when caught. We didn't have that. We couldn't get ouf of jail time. Couldn't circumvent the system because we knew the guy in charge. Couldn't have the policeman keep something off the records and bring it to us personally to allow us to handle it in-house. Affluence and Influence were the 2 things we didn't have in abundance that others had been stockpiling and flipping from generation to generation since they got here. This epidemic was uniquely able to hold US back and turn us into a pure consumer class. Can it really be coincidence that this "perfect storm" epidemic hits us RIGHT when there is nothing else to hold us back? Right when we are poised to rise unfettered and challenging for jobs traditionally held off limits from us? Could the self-sustaining mechanism used to keep people chemically enslaved and physically imprisoned truly come about at the exact moment it would be most devastating by chance? Well let me back up a second and say first the 5%'s don't have in their doctrine "Yo go slang dope". It just so happens that within the dope game mainly in New York City you find alot of dealers who are/were 5%'s because frankly the discipline is far more loose than being in the NOI. Now looking at the drug issue again the drug explosion has been a problem in a communities. So the argument that you are trying to make is merit less. Lets roll out some names... Nicky Barnes, Bumpy Johnson, Guy Fisher, and of course Frank Lucas. Thats just in NY. I'm sure there were others in different parts of the country in our communities. These men were millionaires. So pointing to the 80's as the reason we are in the condition we are in is baseless when we can show our communities were drug infested overwhelmingly 40 years prior. Furthermore selling garbage is garbage. Don't hold the brothers in the hood up to one standard but say nothing about the liquor stores, over the counter drug stores, fast food restaurants, churches, who truthfully are doing nothing for the hood. Atleast the drug dealers did, do, and have always put money back into the hood. Whether it be rec centers, school clothes, food, etc . The undesirables will always not be able to cope and will reach for that high. Dope sells dope. The moment a person decides to smoke crack or do heroin is the problem. The hopelessness poverty and inability to endure.... |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 13, 2010 15:37:53 GMT -5
Hmmm - VP, I don't know homie. See, I just see those as ill battle rhymes that fit in with the scope of what G rap was doing back then. Not sure if G Rap studied the 5% teachings in his personal life, but maybe he was trying to camaflauge them in. I can't call it. I own all his cds so I will check and listen with a closer ear next time. Now with Rakim, he was way more out in the open with it. I agree. Not to get off course, but yo - Songs like "Men At Work" or "Lyrics of Fury" should have their lyrics framed in glass at the Smithsonian in DC. lol - It gets no better. In that verse, you typed of my favorite Kool G Rap bars from that song: "When I die scientists will preserve my brain Donate it to Science to answer the unexplained But as long as I inhale and exhale I'll challenge the next female or the next male" That was just SO sick for it's time. But my all time favorite verse from G Rap is on "Kool Is Back" from the Wanted Dead or Alive album: "I’m fast and passing the stealth of an assassin
Massacre, in a flash I’ll start blastin’
Fury articles, periodicals
Blowin’ up pools of molecules, Here, read the articles
Every time I built a plan, it killed a man
Mc’s got smoked without a filter and
Stuffed and puffed like Marijuana
Terminator of data and your rhymes are Sarah Conner"Crazy. Dude wrote that 20 years ago. G Rap was an animal. Yeah G Rap was before his time fa sho. I mean I listened to Rakim, BDK, KRS,EPMD and Stetasonic when I was in Florida. When I moved to NY I listened to was Tribe, Nice n Smooth, Brand Nubian, Kool G Rap, Main Source and K Solo. Cant forget about my man Large Professor. He was nice too with Main Source. |
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Post by DamieQue™ on May 13, 2010 17:08:17 GMT -5
Agreed that the 5% don't have an expressed doctrine to sell dope, I am meaning to refer to their participation in the trade that has elicited little protest from other members. We are in agreement on your first point.
Ok so first, Nicky Barnes and Guy Fisher were apart of The Council... the heroin they were selling... that was during the 70's. Same thing with Frank Lucas. The bulk of his sales were during the 70's. The explosion of drugs that drags us down (as I mention) occurs on the heels of the Civil Rights Movement. The idea being if they couldn't keep us down with laws they had to keep us down with something.
Gangs have always existed in America. Poverty has always existed in America. Neither of them were poised to stop the advance of black people from consumer class to producer class. But you add this new drug trade, to that mix of poverty, and gangs and you have the means to keep them down for decades if not longer. If not by incarceration, then by death, or addiction. So NO, I'm not arguing that it's the 80's that did it... the roots of it happen in the 70's, the attitude of the 80's just made it worse (because alot of Middle Class America was too busy indulging itself to realize this drug problem was THEIR problem too).
Thus I maintain, that the Dope Game is just the new Slavery. The only modification I would make is to say, if you are a drug dealer (whether Big Pharmaceutical or Hand-to-Hand) you're not an overseer you're a modern day Slave Owner. And I'll stand by that statement.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 14, 2010 7:52:57 GMT -5
Before I respond... Why does Jay Electronica stand out?
Lets have a read shall we...
Exhibit C
Tryna find the meaning of life in a corona
Till the 5%s rolled up on a nigga and informed him
"You either build or destroy. Where you come from?"
"The Magnolia projects in the 3rd ward slum"
"Hmmm... its quite amazing that you rhyme how you do
And how you shine like you grew up in a shrine in Peru."
Question14 - Muslim Lesson 2: Dip over, Civilize a 85er
I make the devil hit his knees and say the Our Father
That FOI, Marcus Garvey, Nikki Tesla
I shock like a eel
Electric feel
Jay Electra
They call me Jay Electronica
fuck that.
Call me Jay ElecHannukah
Jay ElecYarmulke
Jay ElecRamadaan
Muhammad Asalaamica RasoulAllah
Supana Watallah through your monitor
My Uzi still Weighs A Ton check the barometer
I'm hotter than the muthafuckin' sun check the thermometer
I'm bringing ancient mathematics back to modern man
My momma told me never throw a stone and hide your hand
So the homie has NOI, 5%, and Vudu all up in his lyrics.
Side note.. Should we include The Black Hebrew Israelites in this discussion to especially concerning Killah Priest
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on May 14, 2010 14:08:00 GMT -5
Before I respond... Why does Jay Electronica stand out? Lets have a read shall we... Exhibit C Tryna find the meaning of life in a corona
Till the 5%s rolled up on a nigga and informed him
"You either build or destroy. Where you come from?"
"The Magnolia projects in the 3rd ward slum"
"Hmmm... its quite amazing that you rhyme how you do
And how you shine like you grew up in a shrine in Peru."
Question14 - Muslim Lesson 2: Dip over, Civilize a 85er
I make the devil hit his knees and say the Our Father
That FOI, Marcus Garvey, Nikki Tesla
I shock like a eel
Electric feel
Jay Electra
They call me Jay Electronica
fuck that.
Call me Jay ElecHannukah
Jay ElecYarmulke
Jay ElecRamadaan
Muhammad Asalaamica RasoulAllah
Supana Watallah through your monitor
My Uzi still Weighs A Ton check the barometer
I'm hotter than the muthafuckin' sun check the thermometer
I'm bringing ancient mathematics back to modern man
My momma told me never throw a stone and hide your hand So the homie has NOI, 5%, and Vudu all up in his lyrics. Side note.. Should we include The Black Hebrew Israelites in this discussion to especially concerning Killah Priest damn, you're a moron. SMH. |
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