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Post by T-Rex91 on Feb 24, 2010 8:26:15 GMT -5
^^^We know Juice......we know!  |
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Post by Cambist on Feb 24, 2010 10:01:30 GMT -5
What needs to change is the core of the school, the mission, vision, vaulea' and goals. The culture of the educational system, so to speak. Exactly! I've said for years that we are operating our education system under the "Cleaver Assumption". The assumption that.... June Cleaver will be home waiting for the kids with a healthy snack and dinner on the stove.....helping the kids with their homework. Ward Cleaver comes home about the same time every day from work, tired but never too tired to spend time with his boys...talking with them, helping them with life problems etc... The Beaver's teacher has full control of her class and the thread of going to the principal's office or getting paddled is enough to scare kids straight. Wally is there to protect and guide his big brother...keeping him from the likes of that sneaky (but still remarkably well mannered) Eddie Haskel. All the girls are cute and chaste and expect to be treated with respect...and they get it or other guys go fisted cuffs with the offenders. Yeah, this is a fairy tale world we assume kids are brought up in. The truth turns the entire structure of schools on their head..... The school system is heavily dependent on a certain family system. That system, in many cases, is no longer the norm. |
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Post by Julie Art on Feb 24, 2010 11:51:26 GMT -5
^^^We know Juice......we know! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! |
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Post by Noble Work on Feb 24, 2010 12:20:24 GMT -5
ok so I'm convinced that I am NOT an Old crazy dude who is lost and out of touch. lol.
I thought I was the only one wondering how in the world these kids are prepared for the next grade level and then on to College? If they don't get enough reading or writing or doing research are the honestly prepared for College?
Here's a question though. Is Parent Involvement really enough? Let' say we go to the class rooms, we send notes, (and email), we talk with our child's teacher, we plan, we discuss....the whole nine, but our children STILL can't __________? [For now let's use "do a research paper"]. Who's responsible then? And this may fall back on what Cam has been saying about the Educational System as a whole. (and I agree). Do we fault that or "it" because they will not let teachers "teach" so that the students can become at least some what knowledgeable about research, science or what ever? What do we do when our children have to include an Essay with their College Application?
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Post by Julie Art on Feb 24, 2010 12:24:21 GMT -5
Parents' write it for them. No lie! One semester, I had a parent actually do his child's project for him. Seriously. How I know, because he e-mailed me about the requirements for the project and basically told me in a round about way he was doing the project. And it wasn't a very difficult project at all.
I was like, are you freaking kidding me? Seriously?
Yep, they'll write it for them.
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Post by Noble Work on Feb 24, 2010 12:30:26 GMT -5
Parents' write it for them. No lie! One semester, I had a parent actually do his child's project for him. Seriously. How I know, because he e-mailed me about the requirements for the project and basically told me in a round about way he was doing the project. And it wasn't a very difficult project at all. I was like, are you freaking kidding me? Seriously? Yep, they'll write it for them. Ok so do you think that that student didn't no how, the student didn't learn it or the student was just being lazy? Or a mixture of all three? |
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Post by T-Rex91 on Feb 24, 2010 12:32:47 GMT -5
<----Is absolutely loving a Serious thread with flames
Is Parent Involvement really enough? Let' say we go to the class rooms, we send notes, (and email), we talk with our child's teacher, we plan, we discuss....the whole nine, but our children STILL can't __________? [For now let's use "do a research paper"]. Who's responsible then?
Everything in the statement above assumes that parental involvement is not parental responsibility. The teacher is responsible for presenting the material.....yes. But they have that child for a year. I as the parent have responsibility for them for a lifetime (you know what I mean). The parents should make sure the children understand and are well equipped for life. The parents has to provide the additional resources, either teaching it themselves or getting a tutor to handle topics they aren't comfortable with. The teacher can only do so much.
And yes, I've judged science fairs and such where the child couldn't even explain the project because they didn't do it!!! It was clear the parent did it. I was judging a citywide fair once and stood there as the child stammered struggling to figure out the answers I was seeking wondering how this child got past the local fair without someone picking up this obvious deception. I would have given them an "f" and made a new grade contingent on them redoing the project themselves.
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Post by Julie Art on Feb 24, 2010 13:02:25 GMT -5
Parents' write it for them. No lie! One semester, I had a parent actually do his child's project for him. Seriously. How I know, because he e-mailed me about the requirements for the project and basically told me in a round about way he was doing the project. And it wasn't a very difficult project at all. I was like, are you freaking kidding me? Seriously? Yep, they'll write it for them. Ok so do you think that that student didn't no how, the student didn't learn it or the student was just being lazy? Or a mixture of all three? I have no idea. Regardless, it should have been the student asking and doing the project. Not saying that he couldn't have received help, but his dad doing it all for him is out of order on so many levels. |
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Post by peppermint on Feb 24, 2010 13:37:08 GMT -5
okWhat do we do when our children have to include an Essay with their College Application? [/color][/quote] Interestingly my grad program has a research paper requirement instead of the GRE now. People who are applying for a GRADUATE program are very upset about the change but the professors said they tired of grading graduate level papers that could have been written by a middle or high schooler. I personally know someone who is not applying because of that requirement. The program is more and more schools (for certain degrees) are moving towards this. Writing in some cases is subjective. How do you really judge who can and cannot write? Not excusing people not catching problems before the child gets to high school but your concrete subjects such as math would be easier to catch. The answer is either right or it's wrong. Parental involvement is not enough. There really should be a collaboration between educators, administrators and parents. |
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Post by Cambist on Feb 24, 2010 13:42:35 GMT -5
I've heard of graduate schools moving to papers and the MAT for entrance. Especially social science majors.
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Post by MochaD on Feb 24, 2010 14:40:12 GMT -5
I've heard of graduate schools moving to papers and the MAT for entrance. Especially social science majors. <---recently took the MAT exam for grad school for my Ed.D I am a product of public school and can't speak at all for private schools but when it come to taking standardized tests, public school has failed me miserably. I was fortunate enough to have an urban "June Cleaver" waiting for me at home to make sure I did and UNDERSTOOD my school work and had a snack and couldn't do ish else until my homework was completed and signed. If the teacher called home, I got punished twice -when I got home and AFTER she went up to the school to meet with the teacher I HAD to go with her and she straight embarrassed me IN FRONT of the teacher and anyone else was around. She didn't care and wasn't concerned about being hauled off to jail for child abuse because if I called the cops they had better be coming to get me because two GROWN women can not live under the same roof. She ALWAYS reminded me, she bought me in this world and she would take me out!!!  Needless to say I had a healthy fear of my mother and anyone who could report back to her what I was not doing or was not suppose to do. My mother NEVER did my school work and if I bought home a bad grade, a note or she got a phone call it was MY AZZ!!...she asked questions later. My hats off to teachers because due to the lack of parental support and the missing village that once raised a child most kids are out of damn control. They are simply "getting by" and the SYSTEM, the government and some parents are failing these kids miserably. It's not just one point of failure there are MANY. Lack of funding = lack of programs, unemployment = parents can't afford xyz, wack ass economy, BOTH parents need to work to get by and children are left to raise themselves and have healthy diets of media and video games. Like I said, I don't have any kids but I worry about them and for them. Things aren't getting better. They are getting way worse and er'one is seemingly trying to take the easy way out just to "get by"... |
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Post by Noble Work on Feb 24, 2010 14:40:20 GMT -5
"How do you really judge who can and cannot write?"
Pep I've heard this before. And me personally I believe this is a very difficult thing to do. But I also believe that you can Judge the style and expression of the writer. Format has to be taught and that some don't get.
@91...that is tragic. That is a classic case of "slipping through the cracks".
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Post by MochaD on Feb 24, 2010 14:43:18 GMT -5
...kinda got off where I started but I didn't learn religion in public school and if it wasn't for my grandma I wouldn't have went to church to learn the lil' I did know. I was an overall good student and managed to retain what I learned but if it wasn't for "outside" factors and my mother staying in my azz and thost that exposed me to things that weren't taught in the classroom I would still be in my NYC box thinking the world stopped there. I had the village that got me this far. That was the best SYSTEM I had back then...
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Post by Oldskool on Feb 24, 2010 15:26:00 GMT -5
I happened to go to school when all of the teachers in every school were of the same color as the kids. The teachers' word was the gospel and was never questioned. There were no pull out programs and no remedial classes. We were expected to learn and we were afraid not to. If you didn't get the message, you got (left back) retained and no excuses were made. We got our butts spanked at school or some other kind of punishment.(put in the pit) Our teachers were the parent substitutes all day and at night parents stood in. Teachers were highly respected and treated with great admiration.
With the changing of the guards and teachers of other races who really don't understand the culture coming in to handle our children.....BREAK-DOWN in the Educational system. Children were being labeled as ADD, BAD, and RET, and all kinds of other letters. Teachers were required to write LEP's IEP's and once again other letters. The new teachers coming in were so afraid of our kids that many of them gave grades just to shut up the loud mouth irate parents. Thus the cycle began.
I know I might get blasted for saying this, but....we need to have our own children in our own schools. Teachers can do the jobs if parents trusted them. We need people who understands what our children are going though and deal with the issue instead of making up excuses to why they can't learn. Coming from a one parent home should not be an excuse to put a child in a slower learning environment. There is more I can say, but I am done.
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Post by T-Rex91 on Feb 25, 2010 15:04:08 GMT -5
so is this the solution?
Wednesday, February 24, 2010
CENTRAL FALLS, Rhode Island — A U.S. school district has voted to fire all the teachers at an underperforming school.
The Providence Journal reports that the Central Falls School Committee voted Tuesday evening to fire every educator at Central Falls High School at the end of the school year.
It's the only school in the tiny, impoverished city north of Providence. Only about half its students graduate, and only 7 percent of 11th-graders, who are around ages 16 to 17, were proficient in math in 2009.
The plan was developed because of a federal effort to makeover failing schools.
The Central Falls Teachers Union says it is reviewing legal options and hasn't decided what action to take.
Education Secretary Arne Duncan applauds the decision and says "when schools continue to struggle we have a collective obligation to take action."
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Post by Cambist on Feb 25, 2010 15:15:49 GMT -5
Nope....it's like having funky body and just changing clothes.....
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Post by Noble Work on Mar 3, 2010 12:13:52 GMT -5
so is this the solution?Wednesday, February 24, 2010 CENTRAL FALLS, Rhode Island — A U.S. school district has voted to fire all the teachers at an underperforming school. The Providence Journal reports that the Central Falls School Committee voted Tuesday evening to fire every educator at Central Falls High School at the end of the school year. It's the only school in the tiny, impoverished city north of Providence. Only about half its students graduate, and only 7 percent of 11th-graders, who are around ages 16 to 17, were proficient in math in 2009. The plan was developed because of a federal effort to makeover failing schools. The Central Falls Teachers Union says it is reviewing legal options and hasn't decided what action to take. Education Secretary Arne Duncan applauds the decision and says "when schools continue to struggle we have a collective obligation to take action." It may not be a solution but I can see why they did it. But it also depends on how long this school been failing. The only way this would be a solution and not a mistake is to wait until the end of the next coming school year. If statistics do a complete 180 then yea you have to wonder about the teachers. But here in Ga. if a school district is failing repeatedly like that then school district looses it's accreditation ie College Park. |
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Post by T-Rex91 on Mar 3, 2010 12:37:07 GMT -5
I almost feel that there should be a different scale for high school teachers than elementary. If you don't get a strong foundation in the early years it's almost impossible to catch up later.
I tutor trig and calc and such and will always remember one young lady who couldn't even add positive and negative numbers without a calculator and was weak on fractions (again, calculator dependent on the most common ratios). How am I supposed to teach you trig when you never learned basic math??? I couldn't go back and teach her the 5-6 years of basic math that she needed to understand the current subject matter. Is it the trig teacher's fault if they can't get you a passing grade when you never understood the prereq's? Oh and can I add that this young lady had carried a B average all through high school. Tell me THAT makes sense.
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Needless to say I had a healthy fear of my mother and anyone who could report back to her what I was not doing or was not suppose to do. 