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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 19, 2009 10:51:22 GMT -5
In my estimation, the Guns at the townhalls are meant to intimidate, meant to make those who are feeling like they're losing power - MORE empowered, and meant to artificially draw negative attention to health care reform. I think we get that. But it's 2009 and I was wondering...
With so many Tea-baggers and Fringe Element Republicans showing up at rallies brandishing guns... what happens when people with opposing views start showing up with guns also?
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Post by Warner Fite on Aug 19, 2009 11:05:02 GMT -5
Liberals don't carry guns and Conservatives don't know how to use them....resulting in the status quo, no gun fight.
Fringe-Element Repubs? Why can't we just call them a loose group of rednecks?
They're hardly a political group and half of those mayo sandwich eating, toothless trailer parks don't vote anyway. Is that what Fox news calls back country white folks these days to make these people look engaged?
omg....
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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 19, 2009 11:15:32 GMT -5
Fox News is insisting that the rabble rousers we see at these Town Halls are mainstream America. And some of them at least call themselves Conservatives...
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Post by Warner Fite on Aug 19, 2009 11:28:55 GMT -5
Fox News is insisting that the rabble rousers we see at these Town Halls are mainstream America. And some of them at least call themselves Conservatives... Mainstream? Yeah right Fox news....Try downstream America. People like we see at these town halls are no different than the dixicrats that would gather at voting booths in the south back in the 60's. No political cause, pure racial motivation.... It's no different today...really it isn't. White people have been screaming and begging black folks to stop playing the race card, get past the topic of slavery... Now the shoe has dropped, the chickens are roosting and the pot is still calling the kettle black. It is truly remarkable, these white folks.... |
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Post by T-Rex91 on Aug 19, 2009 11:37:42 GMT -5
I am hoping supporters won't show up with guns as that makes us look as crazy as them. They always go back to the right to bear arms as fundamental and this is their display of that.
I worry more about them trying to assassinate someone out of frustration over the situation than I do a shoot out between the two sides. Glenn Beck and friends are feeding them misinformation that is getting them more and more amped and eventually some nut will decide that a sacrifice is required.
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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 19, 2009 11:55:39 GMT -5
I am hoping supporters won't show up with guns as that makes us look as crazy as them. They always go back to the right to bear arms as fundamental and this is their display of that. I worry more about them trying to assassinate someone out of frustration over the situation than I do a shoot out between the two sides. Glenn Beck and friends are feeding them misinformation that is getting them more and more amped and eventually some nut will decide that a sacrifice is required.
...for one, we're not scared. We are exercising our right to bear arms (legally) more and more. And I am worried what happens when one level of intimidation doesn't work (see abortion as reference) to what level might they elevate it to try to get the results they are looking for.
If showing up with a gun doesn't intimidate - what's next? |
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Post by Julie Art on Aug 19, 2009 12:13:40 GMT -5
Lawd have mercy. It interesting the extent that whites go to and what becomes "legal" when they don't get their way. OK, it does say in the Consitituion the right to bear arms, but I don't believe fire arms should be carried in certain places. This is not the Wild Wild West where you go outside and draw and the last man standing is vindicated. This is just going to cause MORE problems, IMO.
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Post by Noble Work on Aug 19, 2009 12:18:25 GMT -5
Fox News is insisting that the rabble rousers we see at these Town Halls are mainstream America. And some of them at least call themselves Conservatives... Damie to me what they are displaying IS mainstream America and the Conservatives just haven't been showing it. It has come out now. There is a man as POTUS who look like US and yet to MAINSTREAM AMERICA he still a N-word. This is NOT about health care or even town hall meetings, It's about their frustration on the Presidential Election results. And for the first time he didn't look like them. He is smart, savvy, fair and proper AND he has power. They are sooo scared that they may have to actually help the poor, less fortunate and the elderly. Listen to the words they use at these TH meetings. Lazy, uneducated, ignorant, "They", irresponsible....and the list goes on. ALL these words historically have been used to describe black people as a whole. If and when we start to carry guns in the same fashion as them, THAT'S when in their minds those words will be justified and confirmed. On Fox News? IMO, they are trying to start a Civil War. Check the tactics and the info they are putting out there. |
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Post by Julie Art on Aug 19, 2009 12:22:23 GMT -5
Any black person who is still working at Faux needs to check themselves, seriously.
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Post by Cambist on Aug 19, 2009 12:23:45 GMT -5
It's about perception. Bill Mahar was right when he said that Americans, on average, are not very smart. We are so microwave in our culture that we lack the ability to critically think (even at the most basic level) anything through.
To these people, facts mean nothing! The truth has no weight.
Guns? Yeah, let them carry....it's their right. If 'we' do show up to those meeting, let us be unarmed and disciplined. You can't fight ignorance with ignorance....you end up with a big assed ignorant mess.
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Post by Cambist on Aug 19, 2009 12:25:05 GMT -5
And sadly, those toothless, backwood, trailer park, tornado bait rednecks will not reflect badly on all white people.
But let 'us' act an ass...even an intelligent ass....we will all be branded with the same iron.
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Post by Julie Art on Aug 19, 2009 12:25:14 GMT -5
It's about perception. Bill Mahar was right when he said that Americans, on average, are not very smart. We are so microwave in our culture that we lack the ability to critically think (even at the most basic level) anything through. To these people, facts mean nothing! The truth has no weight. Guns? Yeah, let them carry....it's their right. If 'we' do show up to those meeting, let us be unarmed and disciplined. You can't fight ignorance with ignorance....you end up with a big assed ignorant mess. I say show up with the Nation of Islam security. The presence alone is intimadating, lol! |
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Post by T-Rex91 on Aug 19, 2009 12:34:30 GMT -5
I say show up with the Nation of Islam security. The presence alone is intimadating, lol! Yep Yep! |
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Post by T-Rex91 on Aug 19, 2009 12:41:31 GMT -5
I will say that I am ticked that the Republican party has been mad disorganized for months now and all off a sudden they're inventing and organizing in a very efficient manner. Granted it doesn't take much to show up at meetings and shout and protest but I gotta tell ya, they're getting the job done. New vocabulary and e'erythang (Death Panels, Birthers.....)
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Post by ReignMan19 on Aug 19, 2009 12:48:34 GMT -5
And sadly, those toothless, backwood, trailer park, tornado bait rednecks will not reflect badly on all white people. Get that said.. even on this board we have labled them as a small segment. |
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Post by Noble Work on Aug 19, 2009 13:13:47 GMT -5
It's about perception. Bill Mahar was right when he said that Americans, on average, are not very smart. We are so microwave in our culture that we lack the ability to critically think (even at the most basic level) anything through. To these people, facts mean nothing! The truth has no weight. Guns? Yeah, let them carry....it's their right. If 'we' do show up to those meeting, let us be unarmed and disciplined. You can't fight ignorance with ignorance....you end up with a big assed ignorant mess. I say show up with the Nation of Islam security. The presence alone is intimadating, lol! The FOI Juicy?......lol yep peaceful and unarmed....what can they say? |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 19, 2009 13:33:50 GMT -5
I hear you all and I understand all the points made (moreover I agree with many of them) but I'm wondering are you starting to see this seismic shift?
I'm not just talking about showing up to Town Halls with guns, I'm talking about the bigger picture of meeting force with force.
Unions are already starting to do it, showing up en masse to events to support some of Obama's initiatives and shout down Republicans. The spectre of suffering under 8 years of Bush has taught many Democrats (not just blacks) that folding up your tent in the face of angry Republican/Conservative Demonstrations doesn't work.
On the other end of the spectrum, are Republicans/Conservatives who have not just lifetimes, but generations of learning that suggests to them that they can intimidate people into submission. Violence (or the threat thereof) has always been one of the principle arrows in their quiver. What happens when it doesn't work this time?
THAT is what I'm wondering. I for one am not roiling for a fight, not even looking for one, but I'm not running from one either. I have JUST as much right to attend these town halls as these other folks. And I shouldn't have to avoid attending or sequester myself because I am worried about what might happen with others there who might disagree with me. If they have a town hall I'm going. And I shouldn't HAVE to feel limited in my options (stay at home with gun, or show up without it) because of concern about someone ELSE might do.
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Post by Julie Art on Aug 19, 2009 14:51:23 GMT -5
True Damie, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Which is why I say, bring in the FOI, lol! We shouldn't have to, but I bet you nothing will pop off.
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Post by No Screen Name on Aug 19, 2009 19:32:05 GMT -5
Girl, if the FOI shows up, that place will CLEAR OUT!!!
Unfortunately, I'm not seeing it. If I remember correctly, the FOI is pretty apolitical (but even Farrakhan got excited about Obama being president, LOL!).
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Post by BlackPrincess on Aug 20, 2009 7:04:55 GMT -5
Good stuff Damie...but I wonder...is it solely an intimidation tactic OR is it really about voicing the right to bear arms mingled with the right to express self. I hear a lot of folx asking why would they bring a loaded gun to where the President is going to be? I wouldn't but if they could why not? This is exactly THEIR point...they have the right to...Arizona state law says they can...
IMO, its the folx who are bringing the guns to the town hall meetings that are intimidated. They feel that Obama and the Dems want to take away their right so they come thru like punks to say...nah nah nee nah nah...They aren't hurting NOBODY! I understand the concern of our President's safety but that cat and his cohorts wouldn't have been placed anywhere NEAR him...
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Post by Cambist on Aug 20, 2009 7:13:12 GMT -5
1. The Black Panther Party tried this in California.....the laws were changed....
2. I'm tired of people saying, "Those are law abiding citizens and should be able to carry their guns where ever permitted by law."
My viewpoint? Every criminal was ONCE a law abiding citizen......
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Post by BlackPrincess on Aug 20, 2009 7:19:34 GMT -5
@ cam...
Why be tired of it? Can we prove otherwise? We can only insinuate malintent but at the end of the day the law is the law.
Maybe the BPP need to come to AZ so the laws could change! LOL! or not....
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Post by Cambist on Aug 20, 2009 7:23:19 GMT -5
I don't disagree but outside of a Presidental Town Hall meeting....I can't agree that their rights can be limited in the name of national security.
In cases where the POTUS is not present, there needs to be a group of Black and Latino counter protesters with weapons.
They will shut that shit down TOMORROW! You will never see the law change so fast.
As a matter of fact, I want to see Obama walk in the Town Hall Meeting with a .45 strapped to his leg.
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Post by BlackPrincess on Aug 20, 2009 7:41:23 GMT -5
Question:
Was this guy @ the Town hall or in the vicinity (miles and miles away) I ask this because I don't believe he could carry his gun in the vicinity of the President...that is a justified limitation...
As for Blacks and Latinos carrying weapons...clearly if the conduct gets the law change we have another issue that needs to be addressed and its not the 2nd amendment.
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Post by rx2013 on Aug 20, 2009 8:33:41 GMT -5
I just feel like people are not using their common sense on this whole matter. If the country is suffering from the economy, uninsured, and home foreclosure then who is showing up to these meeting. How the hell is redneck Joe traveling all over America, this is a set up. They paying these rednecks and they don't represent Americans. Now if minorities start going to Republican town halls and acting a fool, then we would be a threat to society. I think the only way to combat this ignorance is to fight back with the facts and show up. Cause 30 voices of ignorance could not overshadow hundreds of supporters. I honestly think this has more to do with the president being black then healthcare reform itself. OK I just had to get that off my chest.
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Post by Cambist on Aug 20, 2009 8:38:19 GMT -5
From my understanding, he was outside the venue. That may be a trick of the media to make him seem closer but Chris Matthews made the statement that they were outside the venue.
True, and that's my point. If B &L were to do the same, it would not only cause the SS to end the practice by expanding the gun-free zone but also bring into question the law since there would be a real test to the common sense of it all.
Sadly, it may take a shootout between "law abiding citizens" to force an issue on regulating the carry of weapons in certain states in particular and the country as a whole.
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Post by Kyng of JDs on Aug 20, 2009 9:32:35 GMT -5
In cases where the POTUS is not present, there needs to be a group of Black and Latino counter protesters with weapons. They will shut that shit down TOMORROW! You will never see the law change so fast. Preach CAM! Matter of fact, EXALT!! This is exactly why I CCW. Gun control is rooted in keeping slaves and freedmen unarmed. A terrifying thing to some of the "others" is a black man with a gun. The MOST terrifying thing is a black man with a gun who knows how to use it. Turning back to your point, I agree that if a grip of black folk/latino folk showed up with AR 15s, AK-47s and SPAS shotguns, there would be a repeat assault weapons farce ban. Most concealed carry laws would be federally preempted and open carry rights would be severely limited. Personally, I would love to go to a rally with my .50 slung but that thing is a BEAST. 34lbs is too much to carry in this heat. |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 20, 2009 10:25:50 GMT -5
Good stuff Damie...but I wonder...is it solely an intimidation tactic OR is it really about voicing the right to bear arms mingled with the right to express self. I hear a lot of folx asking why would they bring a loaded gun to where the President is going to be? I wouldn't but if they could why not? This is exactly THEIR point...they have the right to...Arizona state law says they can... IMO, its the folx who are bringing the guns to the town hall meetings that are intimidated. They feel that Obama and the Dems want to take away their right so they come thru like punks to say...nah nah nee nah nah...They aren't hurting NOBODY! I understand the concern of our President's safety but that cat and his cohorts wouldn't have been placed anywhere NEAR him...
...but up to now, they have been the ones showing up with guns. People have questioned them on it, but as you point out they have that right. So part of the argument is, just because you CAN do something does that mean you OUGHT to?
If the Wingnuts were already out exercising they're 2nd Amendment Rights at contentious town halls, would you encourage or discourage those who disagree with the wingnuts to show up with their guns also? I mean afterall - they have a right to do it too. But just because they CAN do something does that mean they OUGHT to?
Submitted for you ponderation |
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Post by Noble Work on Aug 20, 2009 11:08:45 GMT -5
@damie...no they shouldn't, even if given the right/law.
But best belief that the President wasn't on the premises yet. If he was there then this would be a non issue because that man would of gone already. He's stupid but he's not dumb. When the SS is on the scene every law in every town change. If you are using a Public bathroom and the POTUS has to us it, the SS will make you leave out so that the President can use it. They mingle in the crowds, they are in plain clothes.....If the President was ANYWHERE around that man would of been taken down. There is a good chance that the SS was watching him and new he had a weapon before Fox showed up.
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Post by DamieQue™ on Aug 20, 2009 11:17:43 GMT -5
@damie...no they shouldn't, even if given the right/law. But best belief that the President wasn't on the premises yet. If he was there then this would be a non issue because that man would of gone already. He's stupid but he's not dumb. When the SS is on the scene every law in every town change. If you are using a Public bathroom and the POTUS has to us it, the SS will make you leave out so that the President can use it. They mingle in the crowds, they are in plain clothes.....If the President was ANYWHERE around that man would of been taken down. There is a good chance that the SS was watching him and new he had a weapon before Fox showed up.
...my thing is I feel like the argument is going to be that, no we shouldn't exercise our 2nd amendment right to bear arms cause it might cause violence. But really their exercise of that same right could just as easily be said to be the thing that encourages violence. |
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