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Post by Comedy on Jul 7, 2009 22:50:27 GMT -5
LOL I knew this day would come!
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Post by LejaOMG on Jul 8, 2009 8:14:50 GMT -5
I think it comes from a basic misunderstanding of what pledging is and isn't. All too often people have the view that if you took wood/cooked a few meals/learned something not from MIP/couldn't get on facebook/missed a party etc. that that means they were all the way live. Not so. Now that MIP is almost 20 years old, most are getting the R.Kelly, chopped and screwed, B-more club remix and donning it the same. Ummm...EXALT. |
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Post by No Screen Name on Jul 8, 2009 14:42:55 GMT -5
To be honest--conversations like this will never really be "whole" and will always be one-sided, because MIP folks who didn't "get down" will NEVER come out of the shadows and tell it all.
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Post by Robelite on Jul 8, 2009 14:45:35 GMT -5
NSN, Why would they tell it all, darlin' when it's obvious that they will be threatened to within an inch of their lives?  |
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Post by LejaOMG on Jul 8, 2009 14:46:09 GMT -5
If there were ever a chance, it should be here. Where we don't know you or where/when you came in. Like you Z, we don't even know what org you're in...that's the perfect mask behind which to help make this conversation whole. (not callin you out or nothin, just sayin)
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Post by No Screen Name on Jul 8, 2009 14:49:38 GMT -5
It would definitely make the conversation more balanced, for what it's worth. Sometimes I wish folks would just tell MIP folks the truth from the get-go: "You're getting sort of 3/4 membership, and many people will not respect you because of how you came in. Plenty of people will say, 'oh, it doesn't matter how you came in, just as long as you work hard', but those are just pat lies to make you feel better. Many of the people who say that are talking about you like a dog behind your back. Just thought we'd let you know now". If there were ever a chance, it should be here. Where we don't know you or where/when you came in. Like you Z, we don't even know what org you're in...that's the perfect mask behind which to help make this conversation whole. (not callin you out or nothin, just sayin) Nah, I'd rather not. I'm one of those people who complains bitterly but doesn't do anything to change anything.  ;D |
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Post by LejaOMG on Jul 8, 2009 14:52:17 GMT -5
It would definitely make the conversation more balanced, for what it's worth. Sometimes I wish folks would just tell MIP folks the truth from the get-go: "You're getting sort of 3/4 membership, and many people will not respect you because of how you came in. Plenty of people will say, 'oh, it doesn't matter how you came in, just as long as you work hard', but those are just pat lies to make you feel better. Many of the people who say that are talking about you like a dog behind your back. Just thought we'd let you know now". If there were ever a chance, it should be here. Where we don't know you or where/when you came in. Like you Z, we don't even know what org you're in...that's the perfect mask behind which to help make this conversation whole. (not callin you out or nothin, just sayin) Nah, I'd rather not. I'm one of those people who complains bitterly but doesn't do anything to change anything. ;D Yes! Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. So then, after being informed of this, for some reason you still pursue membership, knowing that things are what thery are. Then what should happen? |
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Jul 8, 2009 14:57:31 GMT -5
Ok, so over the past few days folks have commented either that pledging is wrong, isn't necessary and that its relevance is inversely proportional to age/maturity. Folks on the other side of the debate have said that it is utterly unacceptable for MIPers to front on their process. My questions (for those on all sides of the discourse) are thus: 1. Why do folks tell MIP neos to be honest about their lack of a process? Is there truly no shame in it? Isn't anyone who enters a situation acknowledging that they didn't pledge just setting themselves for mistreatment? 2. Some have said "folks will leave you alone if you carry yourself right." Doesn't this actually mean "if you can make folks believe that you probably got down, you stand a better chance of being treated well?" 3. Does overall carrying oneself in a manner calculated to throw people off of one's true Greek background amount to fronting? If so, is it acceptable? 1. I don't think so. They are only mistreated if they allow themselves to be. I went thru MIP, even though I get some side glances, I don't let it shake me or break me. 2. Folks are gonna try to treat me like I'm the step-child, so I avoid those folks like the plague. If they make pledging so damn important then what else about them being in the organization makes it so great? 3. I don't try to throw anyone off based on how I came in. If they don't like it, tough titty. |
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Post by Robelite on Jul 8, 2009 15:01:15 GMT -5
Ok, so over the past few days folks have commented either that pledging is wrong, isn't necessary and that its relevance is inversely proportional to age/maturity. Folks on the other side of the debate have said that it is utterly unacceptable for MIPers to front on their process. My questions (for those on all sides of the discourse) are thus: 1. Why do folks tell MIP neos to be honest about their lack of a process? Is there truly no shame in it? Isn't anyone who enters a situation acknowledging that they didn't pledge just setting themselves for mistreatment? 2. Some have said "folks will leave you alone if you carry yourself right." Doesn't this actually mean "if you can make folks believe that you probably got down, you stand a better chance of being treated well?" 3. Does overall carrying oneself in a manner calculated to throw people off of one's true Greek background amount to fronting? If so, is it acceptable? 1. I don't think so. They are only mistreated if they allow themselves to be. I went thru MIP, even though I get some side glances, I don't let it shake me or break me. 2. Folks are gonna try to treat me like I'm the step-child, so I avoid those folks like the plague. If they make pledging so damn important then what else about them being in the organization makes it so great?3. I don't try to throw anyone off based on how I came in. If they don't like it, tough titty. Gloria, in excelcis deo!! Get that said!  |
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Post by ClassyZeta on Jul 8, 2009 15:04:49 GMT -5
To be honest--conversations like this will never really be "whole" and will always be one-sided, because MIP folks who didn't "get down" will NEVER come out of the shadows and tell it all. I have had this convo several times with newer members in my org. As opposed to this site, the discussion was where we are all members, DO know each other (or know someone close to you), we see each other at conferences and become friends. IMO, I would not come online and bleed my heart to people I didn't know about what I felt I missed in my process--when they don't even know my process. On the other hand, I would chat with my sorors--who know what is sanctioned in my org., can offer advice/mentors--about what I felt I missed, how this came to be, and how to go forward. MIPers old and young have mostly said they joined because they loved the org. but afterwards they were expecting more. LOL they also jokingly and seriously refer to some as their table sister etc. can't be too mad and the general consensus has been a bit of empathy. |
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Post by coldfront06 on Jul 8, 2009 15:05:34 GMT -5
It would definitely make the conversation more balanced, for what it's worth. Sometimes I wish folks would just tell MIP folks the truth from the get-go: "You're getting sort of 3/4 membership, and many people will not respect you because of how you came in. Plenty of people will say, 'oh, it doesn't matter how you came in, just as long as you work hard', but those are just pat lies to make you feel better. Many of the people who say that are talking about you like a dog behind your back. Just thought we'd let you know now". If there were ever a chance, it should be here. Where we don't know you or where/when you came in. Like you Z, we don't even know what org you're in...that's the perfect mask behind which to help make this conversation whole. (not callin you out or nothin, just sayin) Nah, I'd rather not. I'm one of those people who complains bitterly but doesn't do anything to change anything. ;D That does happen occasionally on the graduate level, and sometimes on the undergrad level. I have a friend who is pursuing AKA. She's been told by some younger members in the grad chapter that 1) The chapter doesn't pledge 2) There will be people who view her a certain way because she didn't pledge They basically asked her if she's prepared to deal with that. She has a child and a full time job, and she doesn't WANT to pledge so its not deterring her. |
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Post by LejaOMG on Jul 8, 2009 15:07:42 GMT -5
Hyppy, I really, really appreciate your responses. Thank you.
How do you avoid the haters when you do your Delta social thang? How do you even know who they are?
Have you ever been in a situation where you felt out of your league so-to-speak? If so did you let it be known and excuse yourself or did you try to keep it together even though you weren't sure you could "hang"?
How are things different when you go places where noone knows you (and presumably no one knows that you didn't necessarily pledge)? Can you enjoy the social experience better when you don't have to worry about encountering specific haters seeking to treat you like a stepchild?
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Post by T-Rex91 on Jul 8, 2009 15:15:34 GMT -5
It would definitely make the conversation more balanced, for what it's worth. Sometimes I wish folks would just tell MIP folks the truth from the get-go: "You're getting sort of 3/4 membership, and many people will not respect you because of how you came in. Plenty of people will say, 'oh, it doesn't matter how you came in, just as long as you work hard', but those are just pat lies to make you feel better. Many of the people who say that are talking about you like a dog behind your back. Just thought we'd let you know now". Nah, I'd rather not. I'm one of those people who complains bitterly but doesn't do anything to change anything. ;D That does happen occasionally on the graduate level, and sometimes on the undergrad level. I have a friend who is pursuing AKA. She's been told by some younger members in the grad chapter that 1) The chapter doesn't pledge 2) There will be people who view her a certain way because she didn't pledge They basically asked her if she's prepared to deal with that. She has a child and a full time job, and she doesn't WANT to pledge so its not deterring her. This is what's killing me. EVERYONE post 89 (including me) didn't PLEDGE in the true sense. Yeah, chapters may have gone off script but true pledging? Nah, didn't happen. It's one thing if a 83 soror if giving you grief but a 03? BUMP THAT ISH. I have been financial continuously since my initiation and have NEVER had anyone give me grief about whether I was "made right". My commitment, my knowledge of the org and protocols, my achievements in Delta, my service, and how I carry myself and represent the org should be enough for you and if not, KICK ROCKS. Initiation versus your lifetime commitment is like a wedding versus a marriage. Focus on the right things. |
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Post by LejaOMG on Jul 8, 2009 15:18:46 GMT -5
This is what's killing me. EVERYONE post 89 (including me) didn't PLEDGE in the true sense...It's one thing if a 83 soror if giving you grief but a 03? BUMP THAT ISH. I have been financial continuously since my initiation (ME TOO!) and have NEVER had anyone give me grief about whether I was "made right" ( CAN'T RELATE TO THAT, UNFORTUNATELY). My commitment, my knowledge of the org and protocols, my achievements in Delta, my service, and how I carry myself and represent the org should be enough for you and if not, KICK ROCKS. Aaand...exalt. |
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Post by Robelite on Jul 8, 2009 15:19:08 GMT -5
That does happen occasionally on the graduate level, and sometimes on the undergrad level. I have a friend who is pursuing AKA. She's been told by some younger members in the grad chapter that 1) The chapter doesn't pledge 2) There will be people who view her a certain way because she didn't pledge They basically asked her if she's prepared to deal with that. She has a child and a full time job, and she doesn't WANT to pledge so its not deterring her. This is what's killing me. EVERYONE post 89 (including me) didn't PLEDGE in the true sense. Yeah, chapters may have gone off script but true pledging? Nah, didn't happen. It's one thing if a 83 soror if giving you grief but a 03? BUMP THAT ISH. I have been financial continuously since my initiation and have NEVER had anyone give me grief about whether I was "made right". My commitment, my knowledge of the org and protocols, my achievements in Delta, my service, and how I carry myself and represent the org should be enough for you and if not, KICK ROCKS. Initiation versus your lifetime commitment is like a wedding versus a marriage. Focus on the right things.DST, You and Starry are officially in my Hall of Fame!!  May I have your permission to adopt that as my personal motto? |
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Post by coldfront06 on Jul 8, 2009 15:19:11 GMT -5
That does happen occasionally on the graduate level, and sometimes on the undergrad level. I have a friend who is pursuing AKA. She's been told by some younger members in the grad chapter that 1) The chapter doesn't pledge 2) There will be people who view her a certain way because she didn't pledge They basically asked her if she's prepared to deal with that. She has a child and a full time job, and she doesn't WANT to pledge so its not deterring her. This is what's killing me. EVERYONE post 89 (including me) didn't PLEDGE in the true sense. Yeah, chapters may have gone off script but true pledging? Nah, didn't happen. It's one thing if a 83 soror if giving you grief but a 03? BUMP THAT ISH. I have been financial continuously since my initiation and have NEVER had anyone give me grief about whether I was "made right". My commitment, my knowledge of the org and protocols, my achievements in Delta, my service, and how I carry myself and represent the org should be enough for you and if not, KICK ROCKS. Initiation versus your lifetime commitment is like a wedding versus a marriage. Focus on the right things. Pre 89 brothers in Alpha agree with you...lol. |
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Jul 8, 2009 15:21:25 GMT -5
Hyppy, I really, really appreciate your responses. Thank you. How do you avoid the haters when you do your Delta social thang? How do you even know who they are? Have you ever been in a situation where you felt out of your league so-to-speak? If so did you let it be known and excuse yourself or did you try to keep it together even though you weren't sure you could "hang"? How are things different when you go places where noone knows you (and presumably no one knows that you didn't necessarily pledge)? Can you enjoy the social experience better when you don't have to worry about encountering specific haters seeking to treat you like a stepchild? It's hard to avoid haters. Haters seem to draw themselves to you when you least expect it. It's easy to notice who they are. When I give them my info, it's easy to tell. Based off their responses, I know who is accepting and who isn't. I've been in that situation before. I've tried to hang the best way I could, even though I could tell the vibe was different. When it gets like that, I usually move on and go back to what I was doing prior to. When I go to places no one knows me, it's still the same. I try to enjoy myself regardless of what simple-minded greeks think. If they stressing over labeling me as "not real" that's their problem. Seriously, it's because of the way they came in, that I came in the way I came in. It's a vicious sick cycle. |
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Post by Robelite on Jul 8, 2009 15:30:19 GMT -5
Hyppy, I really, really appreciate your responses. Thank you. How do you avoid the haters when you do your Delta social thang? How do you even know who they are? Have you ever been in a situation where you felt out of your league so-to-speak? If so did you let it be known and excuse yourself or did you try to keep it together even though you weren't sure you could "hang"? How are things different when you go places where noone knows you (and presumably no one knows that you didn't necessarily pledge)? Can you enjoy the social experience better when you don't have to worry about encountering specific haters seeking to treat you like a stepchild? It's hard to avoid haters. Haters seem to draw themselves to you when you least expect it. It's easy to notice who they are. When I give them my info, it's easy to tell. Based off their responses, I know who is accepting and who isn't. I've been in that situation before. I've tried to hang the best way I could, even though I could tell the vibe was different. When it gets like that, I usually move on and go back to what I was doing prior to. When I go to places no one knows me, it's still the same. I try to enjoy myself regardless of what simple-minded greeks think. If they stressing over labeling me as "not real" that's their problem. Seriously, it's because of the way they came in, that I came in the way I came in. It's a vicious sick cycle.Dang Starry, you and DST are spittin' truth on here today! I think I'll just sit back and read y'all's posts! |
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Post by LejaOMG on Jul 8, 2009 15:32:28 GMT -5
I LOVE you for answering my questions, Hyp. It means alot.
So...did anyone advise you to "keep up appearances" when you go out? Is there anything in particular that you did to get the haters off your scent? Has anyone on your line done this?
I notice you mentioned that you give your crossing info as soon as you meet folks. I wholeheartedly commend that. I do the same (makes for easier discernment of whose gonna act an azz and who won't). Suppose that you didn't, though. Suppose you just gave a more general introduction to keep the situation civil and comfortable (No one wants to invite drama just for the ability to self-righteously declare that they ain't ashamed of they process). Would this amount to fronting, in your opinion?
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Jul 8, 2009 15:44:42 GMT -5
I LOVE you for answering my questions, Hyp. It means alot. So...did anyone advise you to "keep up appearances" when you go out? Is there anything in particular that you did to get the haters off your scent? Has anyone on your line done this? I notice you mentioned that you give your crossing info as soon as you meet folks. I wholeheartedly commend that. I do the same (makes for easier discernment of whose gonna act an azz and who won't). Suppose that you didn't, though. Suppose you just gave a more general introduction to keep the situation civil and comfortable (No one wants to invite drama just for the ability to self-righteously declare that they ain't ashamed of they process). Would this amount to fronting, in your opinion? Nope. No one advised me to keep up appearances. Hell the grad chapter who brought us in got PISSED cuz they heard some of my LS' were post-pledging by the chicks who got our chapter kicked off the yard in the first place. They were heated! What I did to get them off my scent? LOL! I love this question. When i tell them my line # is 104, they give me the  face. LOL! They give me the run down: Where did they pledge all of you all at? Do you even know all of them? Etc. I just say: I was apart of a resurrection line. The alumni chapter brought us in the way they felt to keep Delta Sigma Theta alive on that campus. Fronting? No. Avoiding drama? Yes. But that's not me. I'm not going to hide who I am just to fit into the mold of "made" Sorors. Like I said, they tripping so hard off of my process to look at me sideways, they forget the REAL reason they became a Delta in the first place. If they hold so much weight and clout in a "made" process they really missed out. |
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Jul 8, 2009 15:46:43 GMT -5
^ By the way, I wasn't even the tail! LOL!
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Post by LejaOMG on Jul 8, 2009 15:48:13 GMT -5
My commitment, my knowledge of the org and protocols, my achievements in Delta, my service, and how I carry myself and represent the org should be enough for you and if not, KICK ROCKS. As much as I agree with this, it occurs to me...you have to start somewhere. If you're a neo who has done little to no work (and depending on your situation, you may not even be equipped to do any work) on what basis do you tell folks to KICK ROCKS? |
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Post by Robelite on Jul 8, 2009 15:49:00 GMT -5
Speak, Starry!!
I'm STILL readin'!!
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Post by Mrs. Eyes on Jul 8, 2009 15:50:31 GMT -5
Speak, Starry!! I'm STILL readin'!! Trust I will! LOL! I'll answers whatever questions come my way with honesty and my observation. |
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Post by coldfront06 on Jul 8, 2009 15:55:17 GMT -5
In Alpha, Brothers typically just want to know that you know what you're supposed to know. There are some Brothers who don't care how much you know...if you didn't pledge in a manner acceptable to them, they don't want anything to do with you and they will perhaps even clown. I can safely say those Brothers aren't many in number, and they usually fit the same profile (haven't been active since pledging in undergrad or a neo). Generally Alphas have a love of history and knowledge and we feel that all Brothers should know certain things without hesitation. If you know those things, you'll be ok during 99% of your interactions regardless of how you came in. In my experience, the only thing that Brothers object to "unpledged" Brothers doing are things that involve pledging. You do have the occasional crazy chapter that needs "proof" before they let you stroll at their party, etc. For those reasons, I'd understand (not condone, but understand) an undergrad member wanting to post pledge, and maybe even a young grad member. But if you have no desire to be on the undergrad party circuit, you'll probably be cool in Alpha.
I think it goes back to what Cam said about standing on what you know. Something as simple as knowing all of the chapters in your state and their locations, says alot about you in the initial introduction, and often times Brothers won't even feel the need to press further.
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Post by Robelite on Jul 8, 2009 16:01:29 GMT -5
In Alpha, Brothers typically just want to know that you know what you're supposed to know. There are some Brothers who don't care how much you know...if you didn't pledge in a manner acceptable to them, they don't want anything to do with you and they will perhaps even clown. I can safely say those Brothers aren't many in number, and they usually fit the same profile (haven't been active since pledging in undergrad or a neo). Generally Alphas have a love of history and knowledge and we feel that all Brothers should know certain things without hesitation. If you know those things, you'll be ok during 99% of your interactions regardless of how you came in. In my experience, the only thing that Brothers object to "unpledged" Brothers doing are things that involve pledging. You do have the occasional crazy chapter that needs "proof" before they let you stroll at their party, etc. For those reasons, I'd understand (not condone, but understand) an undergrad member wanting to post pledge, and maybe even a young grad member. But if you have no desire to be on the undergrad party circuit, you'll probably be cool in Alpha. I think it goes back to what Cam said about standing on what you know. Something as simple as knowing all of the chapters in your state and their locations, says alot about you in the initial introduction, and often times Brothers won't even feel the need to press further. Know those BASIC things you need to know...and know them well! That's the only "demand" I would say that I'd make of any neo. Even with that, if you're a neo, I will certainly understand that you can't orate your knowledge like a seasoned brother. What I most definitely don't want from a neo is to step to me with some "she-it" that you learned on the underground railroad, when you can't tell me what is printed in the history book in black and white!  While it won't get you a physical assault, it may very well get you a verbal one! And afterward, I'll tell the brother I love him, and advise him to go back to his chapter and tell his prophytes not to teach that she-it to anyone, ever again!! |
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Post by LejaOMG on Jul 8, 2009 16:03:46 GMT -5
lol @ "underground railroad"
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Post by Blu on Jul 8, 2009 16:07:54 GMT -5
In Alpha, Brothers typically just want to know that you know what you're supposed to know. There are some Brothers who don't care how much you know...if you didn't pledge in a manner acceptable to them, they don't want anything to do with you and they will perhaps even clown. I can safely say those Brothers aren't many in number, and they usually fit the same profile (haven't been active since pledging in undergrad or a neo). Generally Alphas have a love of history and knowledge and we feel that all Brothers should know certain things without hesitation. If you know those things, you'll be ok during 99% of your interactions regardless of how you came in. In my experience, the only thing that Brothers object to "unpledged" Brothers doing are things that involve pledging. You do have the occasional crazy chapter that needs "proof" before they let you stroll at their party, etc. For those reasons, I'd understand (not condone, but understand) an undergrad member wanting to post pledge, and maybe even a young grad member. But if you have no desire to be on the undergrad party circuit, you'll probably be cool in Alpha. I think it goes back to what Cam said about standing on what you know. Something as simple as knowing all of the chapters in your state and their locations, says alot about you in the initial introduction, and often times Brothers won't even feel the need to press further. I agree with most of this as far as Sigma goes as well. I've never seen that many issues on the Graduate level with questions of process. What you do after is more important than what you did to get there. All I ever cared about is that you know your history and that you don't go out trying to make yourself into a "Hazer"... |
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Post by LejaOMG on Jul 8, 2009 16:08:47 GMT -5
Hyp, what, if anything, did your grad chapter do to support you guys' social development, knowing that they were bringing you into a situation that might become hostile? Did they have events for you? Teach you certain etiquette? Go to stuff with you so you'd have a familiar face?
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Post by Robelite on Jul 8, 2009 16:09:34 GMT -5
In Alpha, Brothers typically just want to know that you know what you're supposed to know. There are some Brothers who don't care how much you know...if you didn't pledge in a manner acceptable to them, they don't want anything to do with you and they will perhaps even clown. I can safely say those Brothers aren't many in number, and they usually fit the same profile (haven't been active since pledging in undergrad or a neo). Generally Alphas have a love of history and knowledge and we feel that all Brothers should know certain things without hesitation. If you know those things, you'll be ok during 99% of your interactions regardless of how you came in. In my experience, the only thing that Brothers object to "unpledged" Brothers doing are things that involve pledging. You do have the occasional crazy chapter that needs "proof" before they let you stroll at their party, etc. For those reasons, I'd understand (not condone, but understand) an undergrad member wanting to post pledge, and maybe even a young grad member. But if you have no desire to be on the undergrad party circuit, you'll probably be cool in Alpha. I think it goes back to what Cam said about standing on what you know. Something as simple as knowing all of the chapters in your state and their locations, says alot about you in the initial introduction, and often times Brothers won't even feel the need to press further. I agree with most of this as far as Sigma goes as well. I've never seen that many issues on the Graduate level with questions of process. What you do after is more important than what you did to get there. All I ever cared about is that you know your history and that you didn't go out trying to make yourself into a "Hazer"...C'mon! |
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face. LOL! They give me the run down: Where did they pledge all of you all at? Do you even know all of them? Etc. I just say: I was apart of a resurrection line. The alumni chapter brought us in the way they felt to keep Delta Sigma Theta alive on that campus. 
While it won't get you a physical assault, it may very well get you a verbal one! And afterward, I'll tell the brother I love him, and advise him to go back to his chapter and tell his prophytes not to teach that she-it to anyone, ever again!! 