TITHING

[denounced]

Suave, give us the context of Malachi 1, 2, and 3? That's the real shocker. Israel did have a spoils offering. It's like 1%.

Good for you fella!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[peppermint]

To the anti tithers- is it the idea of giving 10% or that some churches teaches it as mandatory that bothers you?

[denounced]

Like the choice of words. I am not anti-tithing. Tithing, when taught in its "proper context" can be very helpful. As a matter of fact, it would expose the pimps true game. But tithing as it relates to giving money should not even be peeped in the church. It's a false teaching. So mandatory or not, tithing, as it relates to giving 10% of your income, should not even mentioned. Because it has been brought up "out of context", it has led to more ungodly doctrine. A little leaven...............

[Comedy]

I agree and I'll go on to say that welfare and general relief is not earned income and therefore should not be included in this 10% church offering. This also means that I'll expect all poor church fronts to be close this X-mas.

Dec 23, 2009 6:50:37 GMT -5 denounced said:

Like the choice of words. I am not anti-tithing. Tithing, when taught in its "proper context" can be very helpful. As a matter of fact, it would expose the pimps true game. But tithing as it relates to giving money should not even be peeped in the church. It's a false teaching. So mandatory or not, tithing, as it relates to giving 10% of your income, should not even mentioned. Because it has been brought up "out of context", it has led to more ungodly doctrine. A little leaven...............

[Cambist]

Excellent post young man...excellent post!

Dec 22, 2009 11:34:51 GMT -5 suavesince1911 said:

I am a million years late with this, but I found this topic to be very interesting.

I have been researching this practice over the last month, and my eyes have been opened.

First of all, tithing was ONLY for the children of Israel; it does NOT APPLY to the followers of Christ under the New Covenant.

The tithing system was established under the Mosaic Law. Many tithing radicals/proponents will say, "but Suave, tithing predates the law as Abram and Jacob did so."

My response is that neither Abram nor Jacob was commanded to tithe. Abram gave a tenth of his spoils to Melchizidek, and he returned the other 90% of his plunder to its original owner. He could have kept everything, and he would not have been cursed, as there was no law (nor Godly commandment) to curse him. Abram's giving was a ONE TIME occurrence. He NEVER gave a tenth of his own possessions: only that which he seized after battle. Read Genesis 14.

How can this be used as an example or precedence for perpetual "tithing" when it was 1). not a Godly commandment? 2). not from his own possessions? 3). only done ONCE (NOWHERE in the bible is it recorded that Abram repeatedly tithed).

Tithing was done by husbandmen in ancient Israel. They gave a tenth of their cattle and produce to support the Levitical priesthood (the Levites had no inheritance, and they were given food from the Israelites for compensation of their ecclesiastical duty) as well as the orphans, widows, strangers, and the poor. Tithing was NEVER given in the form of MONEY; it was in the form of edible products to FEED PEOPLE.


These ministers are LYING (or they just do not know). When they quote the ever-so-popular Malachi 3:8 "will a man rob God?," they are taking the scripture WAY out of context to "guilt-trip" us into giving. According to 2 Corinthians 9:7, we are to give what we have decided in our hearts to give (or what the Most High has laid upon our hearts to give). If you want to give 10% of your paycheck, then fine. If you only want to give 2%, then that too is fine. There is no set amount because the Most High wants us to give from our heart: not out of compulsion or necessity. Think about it: how can we give from our heart when the minister is telling us that we will be "cursed" if we do not? That sounds like we are giving out of fear and guilt.

They say we will be cursed for not tithing, but they conveniently neglect Galatians 3:13.


When you are giving 10% of your paycheck, technically (and biblically) you are NOT tithing. You are only giving. Remember, tithing was done ONLY in the form of food.


As for my "personal experience." I really do not have much to report. Not long ago, a pro-tithing minister asked me if I have noted any signifcant increase in my financial situation due to tithing. I told him, with sincerity, that I have not noticed any appreciable difference in my finances because I gave a tenth of my paycheck to a local assembly. Oftentimes, I felt like giving was a "burden," and I even felt that maybe something was wrong with me because I did not really experience a financial blessing the way the ministers told me I would. Eventually, I realized it was all a lie. The ministers told me what I wanted to hear just so I could give cheerfully. I was given false hope, and the "cheerful giving" was only an emotion I felt at the surface because at the core I felt burdened and in bondage.

The ministers are selling tithing as if it is a slot machine. More often than not, the slot machine does a lot more taking than giving.

Now that I know the truth about tithing, I will never again adhere to this false doctrine. There are poor people who have been giving nearly all their lives, and they are still in the same financial turmoil in which they were before their tithing began. Tithing (in the way today's ministers are selling it) does not work, and it has no biblical precedence.

[LejaOMG]

Dec 22, 2009 18:53:50 GMT -5 peppermint said:

To the anti tithers- is it the idea of giving 10% or that some churches teaches it as mandatory that bothers you?

For me, it's both. My earnest interpretation of the new covenant, provides me certitude that algebra [(x= Income(.1)] is not the appropriate way to determine how much a person should contribute to the congregation. (call to mind the Widow's mite Mark 12:41-44). I am offended in general whenever I find that a "pastor" has mislead a congregation. To date, I have not heard a biblically sound reason for mandatory tithing, yet I have known more than a few people sacrificing the wellbeing of their families in favor of tithing for fear God will strike them down otherwise.

Do not misunderstand me at all. I make financial contributions plenty. And much moreso I contribute hundreds of hours of my time each year in the ministry (which God values more than money).

The spirit of cheerful giving is to give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion (2 Corinthians 9:7). I believe HF commented once that she chooses to tithe because she thinks its the right thing to do. To such people, I say "do you." As to Pastors who attempt to convince their flocks that it's required, I pray for them. I believe they will be judged.

[denounced]

When someone says they tithe, I ask them what they mean. The I aks them to biblically justify it, and they cannot. Therefore, tithing should be one of those things that if you do it, stop calling it what it's not. If I told someone that I khameeshee, only someone who knew Hebrew, would know what I meant. But I could start preaching it now and in about 50 years, people would be doing it.

But here is a really good illustration of Abraham giving a tenth of the spoils of war. Under the Law, spoils were 1/50 of the spoils obtained (Numbers 31). That is 1/5 of 1/10. I wonder what a Pastor would do if someone broadcast that to the congregation?

EXXXXXXXXXXCOMMUNICATION!!!!!

[suavesince1911]

Dec 22, 2009 15:14:42 GMT -5 denounced said:

Suave, give us the context of Malachi 1, 2, and 3? That's the real shocker. Israel did have a spoils offering. It's like 1%.

Good for you fella!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God was admonishing the priests and the Israelites. The priests were offering blemished sacrifices even though the law specifically stated that this was not acceptable (see: Deuteronomy 15:21). They showed contempt for the lord's name. They also violated the covenant with Levi. Also, people were not tithing as they should. They said harsh things against God, etc.

In the entire book of Malachi, it was clear that the Most High was talking to the priests and the Israelites. This has NOTHING to do with US.


How in the world do we go from the priests and Israelites breaking their covenant to modern day, new covenant believers not paying a tenth of their gross/net income to the local assembly: a fabricated doctrine that the Most High never established in the first place?


When these money-motivated ministers ask us, "will a man rob God?" We should in turn ask them, "will a church rob a man? But how have we robbed you, they say? By manipulating the scriptures and causing people to give out of fear, AND you sell them a false hope that the so called 'windows of heaven will open' if they faithfully give 10% of their paycheck to God. BTW, the "windows of heaven" literally meant RAIN: not so much blessing of material wealth. How do I know this? Easy, just read Genesis 7:11-12, and you will clearly see what "windows of heaven" truly means. In an agricultural society, of course, rain is needed to grow crops. Because the Israelites broke their covenant, God prevented rain from occurring. Once they recommited to the covenant, God promised to open the "windows of heaven," and he promised to prevent the pests from destroying their crops. THIS was the real meaning in Malachi 3:8-12. Again, what does this have to do with modern day, new covenant believers not consistently paying 10% of their paychecks to the local assembly??? Ministers can attempt to make a comparison for modern day applications, but again, this would be unfounded, and it would be twisting the scriptures. The Most High was talking to THEM: NOT US.


What we are hearing from these ministers is a well-orchestrated lie. We are encouraged to give free will offerings, and we should follow 2 Corinthians 9:7 to guide us in our giving. But something tells me that some of these ministers do not believe their church can function with free will offerings; therefore, they commence to manipulate scriptures (and the congregation) and manufacture tithing doctrines in an attempt to generate base line income.


If a church cannot survive off free will offering, then maybe the Most High is not a part of their church afterall.


Misquoting the scriptures, for personal gain, is SERIOUS business, and these pulpit pimps will be dealt with one day by an angry God.

[peppermint]

<--- is actually neutral on the issue since I give what I'm led, which is over 10%
I didn't mean to offend anyone with "anti-tithing," I figured you all would know what I was talking about lol. So another question... people are referring to "pulpit pimps" but what about those pastors/bishops who do not receive a salary from the church but still preach tithing as mandatory?

[denounced]

Salary is not an absence of payment. If they are still preaching it, they are wrong whether they know it or not.

[Cambist]

**Slow Clap for Suave**

You've been studying bruh! LOL! Good stuff!!

[LejaOMG]

Dec 23, 2009 22:34:01 GMT -5 peppermint said:

but what about those pastors/bishops...[who for ANY reason] still preach tithing as mandatory?

I pray hard for them. Same as I pray for those who preach that ungodly lifestyles are acceptable or those who abuse children or those who lead secret double lives.

[peppermint]

Dec 24, 2009 8:45:33 GMT -5 denounced said:

Salary is not an absence of payment. If they are still preaching it, they are wrong whether they know it or not.

My point is that there are some pastors/bishops who do not receive payment of any sort from their church but still preach tithing as a requirement. Some even reinvest love offerings back into the functioning of the church. So if this is the case wouldn't it make sense to address the issue of tithing not being a God commanded act versus attacking the preachers as pulpit pimps when they aren't gaining anything from it?

[denounced]

If the shoe fits wear it; if you're a pimp, you're a pimp.

It does not matter if they are receiving no gain. They are still preaching a false teaching, and who's going to perpetuate it? The members!!!!

Should we tolerate a false teaching just because the Bishop is a nice guy who gives? The whole purpose of tithing was not to gain anyway, so he would be doing nothing out of the ordinary, but teaching/promoting tithing would be not just out of the ordinary, it would be wrong.

No you say you give more than 10%, do you mean you pay tithes, and then give an offering?

[peppermint]

^^^ I said I pay what I'm led to give. Take that as you will. My confusion from your tirade on pimping is this... a pimp receives a benefit from his whores. If the whores are not giving the pimp his portion, then he is not a pimp. He is then simply a loud mouth semi-body guard. The preacher should be called out for false teaching based on what you are saying, not pulpit pimping. It's not tolerable, just make sure you are going after the right thing.

[denounced]

Dec 24, 2009 17:29:40 GMT -5 denounced said:

If the shoe fits wear it; if you're a pimp, you're a pimp.

It does not matter if they are receiving no gain. They are still preaching a false teaching, and who's going to perpetuate it? The members!!!!

Should we tolerate a false teaching just because the Bishop is a nice guy who gives? The whole purpose of tithing was not to gain anyway, so he would be doing nothing out of the ordinary, but teaching/promoting tithing would be not just out of the ordinary, it would be wrong.

No you say you give more than 10%, do you mean you pay tithes, and then give an offering?

I distinguished and made a clear difference between the two types of preachers, and it's not a tirade. Just make sure you're going after the right thing as well.


You said you are neutral, but I you gear appears to be on D. What are you driving at?

I say forget what ifs, and deal with what is; Teaching MANDATORY TITHING, or NON-MANDATORY TITHING IS WRONG. PIMP OR NO PIMP