Suicide

[frozenmenace]

Can someone point out any scriptures in the GOOD BOOK that touch on suicide? Does someone who commits suicide automatically get an express ticket to HELL?

[Mrs. Eyes]

Good question......

[ReignMan19]

Can someone point to some scriptures where Hell is described.. what is hell exactly?

[GorgeousNgreen]

There are tons of scripture that talk about "life" and your body is a temple/belongs to God.....

but most importantly murder is a sin - you murder yourself, u then cant repent when ur dead...

(1 John 1:9 NIV) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness

(Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV) If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, {27} but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

[GorgeousNgreen]

(1 Corinthians 6:19-20 NIV) [19] Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; [20] you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

(1 Corinthians 3:16-17 NIV) [16] Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? [17] If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

[Cambist]

In that logic, it would seem that the notion of suicide being an unpardonable sin is not only untrue but just nonsense.

I've never seen a scripture state that but then again, maybe I didn't look hard enough.

[Highly Favored]

According to the Scriptures, the only unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. (Mark 3:28-29)

If a person commits suicide by, for example, shooting himself in the head, and dies instantly, it would seem reasonable that there was no opportunity for repentance.

However, the person that takes an overdose and does not die immediately(assuming he knows how to repent), could come to himself, and repent before passing on. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. God would honor that prayer of repentance.

[frozenmenace]

So, do you think that God would take into consideration what led to the person taking their own life? Or do you believe it is cut and dry?

[ReignMan19]

YOu scaring me Froze..

[BrnSuga]

May 23, 2008 19:30:24 GMT -5 ReignMan19 said:

YOu scaring me Froze..

Me too.

[water]

The Key that Unlocks the Door



If you’re standing behind a locked door

facing a dark eternity

And you’re searching for the answer

to where you lost the key



If you’re reaching deep within yourself

as your soul begins to bleed

Trying to grasp your spirit’s will

to fight the demon seed



Remember that prayer is the key to heaven

but faith unlocks the door

For Jesus Christ has won the victory

and His victory is now ours



Thus the answer is not within yourself

but in the One who died for all

Therefore come boldly unto His throne of grace

and into the darkness you shall not fall.

© 1988 Evangelist Raymond Bolton Pena

remnantlifeministries.net/victory_over_spirit_suicide.html

[Highly Favored]

That was nice, Water.

[Highly Favored]

May 23, 2008 19:00:23 GMT -5 @frozenmenace said:

So, do you think that God would take into consideration what led to the person taking their own life? Or do you believe it is cut and dry?

I am not sure I understand. Are you saying that if a person commits suicide and did not have an opportunity to repent, would God take into consideration why they did it?

If so, no. Repentance is always the key. And water is right, the answer is in Jesus.

[frozenmenace]

May 23, 2008 20:43:22 GMT -5 Highly Favored said:

May 23, 2008 19:00:23 GMT -5 @frozenmenace said:

So, do you think that God would take into consideration what led to the person taking their own life? Or do you believe it is cut and dry?

I am not sure I understand. Are you saying that if a person commits suicide and did not have an opportunity to repent, would God take into consideration why they did it?

If so, no. Repentance is always the key. And water is right, the answer is in Jesus.

As stated earlier, when someone takes their own life there is usually no chance for them to repent. So, is GOD a stickler and condemns them to Hell automatically, or will HE look at the sum total of their life and take into consideration what led to them taking their own life? After all, God gave us the Bible as a guide for US to follow. HE makes His own rules and can do whatever He so chooses. He can't be held to any set of rules.

By the way, don't be scared my friends. I am not contemplating suicide..

[water]

YHWH will never go against his Word Yahshua is the Truth.....


PS Glad to hear that Frozen

[frozenmenace]

God moves in mysterious ways.....

[Highly Favored]

God is (in your words) a stickler.

The only justification for our sins is the blood of Jesus Christ. It is applied through repentenance. No repentance=no justification.

Suicide is sin. And, you are right, the chance for repentance for suicide is probably slim. Other than that, it is no different than any other sin. God is not interested in what motivates a person to sin. People caught up in sin often have what they feel are valid reasons and feel that those reasons somehow justify their actions. That does not matter to God. He requires obedience from a willing heart and mind.

[frozenmenace]

May 25, 2008 14:25:21 GMT -5 Highly Favored said:

God is (in your words) a stickler.

The only justification for our sins is the blood of Jesus Christ. It is applied through repentenance. No repentance=no justification.

Suicide is sin. And, you are right, the chance for repentance for suicide is probably slim. Other than that, it is no different than any other sin. God is not interested in what motivates a person to sin. People caught up in sin often have what they feel are valid reasons and feel that those reasons somehow justify their actions. That does not matter to God. He requires obedience from a willing heart and mind.

Interesting. So, you believe that GOD does not have the power to make any decision He chooses to make? He is bound by a set of rules that even HE must follow? I was under the impression that GOD can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. Therefore, He can choose to pardon someone for committing suicide if He so chooses. After all, no human being is totally devoid of sin. If a person is automatically doomed to hell simply because they have sinned (and not repented), then there would be no reason for there to be a day of Judgment..right? The fact that there is a day of Judgment tells me that it isn't cut and dry...committing a sin and not repenting doesn't automatically send us to hell. But that's just my opinion...I know many won't agree.

[Highly Favored]

God does have the power to make any decision he chooses to make. After all, He is omnipotent. However, there are some things that go against the very nature of God and sin is one of those things. He could pardon someone for any sin, but He will not, apart from repentance and remission of sins.

I John 5:19

"All unrighteousness is sin..."

I Corinthians 6:9-11

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, no idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Chapters 4,5,6 of the Book of Romans deals with sin and justification in detail, if you wish to explore those concepts further.

The final judgement day is really about the penalty for sin. When you die, you have already detemined what your judgement will be. It's kind of like returning to court to be sentenced after you have already been determined guilty.

[frozenmenace]

What you posted listed a number of sins..none of which is suicide. So let's say, hypothetically speaking, that a person has lead a righteous life. They have accepted Christ as their Saviour and they follow the straight and narrow path. They are a born-again Christian and have repented for all past sins. Then something happens and they can't handle it so, they commit suicide. Does that one unrepented sin mean they will go to Hell? Your statement about the final day of judgment is more your opinion than an actual fact...more of an interpretation than truth. I am one who believes that the Day of Judgment is when your life will be reviewed and a decision will be made as to whether or not the sum total of your actions have deemed you worthy of admittance into Heaven. It is my belief that just repenting is not enough to guarantee you admittance into Heaven...just as committing a sin and not having the chance to repent for it does not automatically doom you to hell. Again, just my opinion. No one has ever committed suicide and come back to tell me what their judgment was.

[Highly Favored]

My earlier post was to show that justification for sins (whatever they might be) is through faith in Jesus Christ.

How is it that a person has faith in Jesus for remission of sins, but not faith in I Peter 5:7 which encourages the casting of our cares on Him? In my opinion, a born-again Christian as you have described above would not commit suicide. To be a Christian is to have faith in all of God's word.

Revelation 20:12-15

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosover was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Notice "written" is past tense. If your name was not already written in the book of life it would not be written on judgement day. Thus my reason for stating, judgement day is the day the sentence is executed rather than the day the sentence was made.

We all know God as a God of love, compassion, and mercy and He is. That is the reason He does not destroy mankind the moment he sins. That is the reason He has provided us direct access to Him to obtain repentance and remission of sins. We don't have to wait until some later time and perhaps miss our opportunity to repent. We can truly repent as we recognize that we have sinned. All that is required is godly sorrow and a commitment to turn away from sin. God's grace and mercy is rich toward us in this dispensation of grace. And He is not willing that any should perish, but that all come to repentance.

However,

I Peter 4:17-18

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear?"

Ephesians 5:27

"That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

God has given us everything we need to make sure this happens before we leave this earth.

Btw, I am enjoying the dialogue. Good topic.

[frozenmenace]

I am enjoying the dialogue too! LOL! I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I sometimes like to play devil's advocate to keep the dialogue going!

At any rate, casting our cares on Jesus is often easier said than done. That does not mean that an individual is not a true Christian. God knows that as human beings there will be times when our faith may waiver and we may get caught up in our present situation.

[GorgeousNgreen]

{THE BELOW IS KIND OF HARSH - I FOUND IT ONLINE - WHAT IS IN BLUE I DID NOT WRITE *(GNG)*

(Hebrews 9:27 NIV) Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment - There are no second chances. The state you are in when you die is the state you will remain in for eternity.

A True Christian will not commit suicide because True Saints do not "die in [their] sins" (John 8:21). Only "he that endureth to the end shall be saved" (Matthew 10:22). And, Murderers of Self are reserved for the Lake of Fire. "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the Second Death" (Revelation 21:8). The Saints do not die in their sins because the Faithful God has already made provision for their success. "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is Faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1Corinthians 10:13). For one to succeed with the sin of suicide, would be to utterly spurn the Grace of God. "But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Romans 5:20). }

ok - now this is GNG's thoughts

I believe life is a gift from God. Everyday you are not right with Him is another opportunity to come to Him. He wants us to get it right with Him. He is the giver of life.

the bible clearly states that 'thou shalt not kill". Suicide is killing/murdering yourself. Abortion is killing an unborn baby. Its all still murder. Murder is a sin, and you still have to repent.

As far as suicide, I've known of a few people that did it, and I always felt that those people needed someone to talk to, bc they needed answers. My heart always goes out to them - and I always HATE that I wasnt a person they could come to, to at least be heard.

In a way its selfish, bc we are all precious to God -( He has a will and plan for us to carry out) & to our families and you never know how you will be able to affect someone else.

It seems as if they believe their problems are THE worst - once you realize that there are others who have been there done that, overcame and got the t shirt. You will see that God has a plan and its NOT that bad. Oftentimes we try to solve our own problems instead of asking Him for answers.

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened ... If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!" (Matthew 7:7-11)

The bible tells us that all things, not some things, but ALL THINGS work together for the good of them who love the Lord.

The bible ALSO says -

-If GOD is for us WHO can be against us?

Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.

In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. (hello?)

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Jer 29:11 (NIV) "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

We have to keep Gods commands. He gives us instruction. When you commit suicide, how do you ask God for forgiveness? You have died in your sin. You dont have a chance to ask God for forgiveness.

The bible say: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” I John 1:9

God is the judge - but unrighteousness in heaven does not exist.

[Highly Favored]

Without a doubt, many things are easier said than done. And yes, in spite of our relationship with God, at times our faith does waiver. I've been through some of those valley situations, not long ago. It's through those times that I have learned the power of prayer and trusting in God. I can only hope those who love Him will discover the same before resorting to something so drastic as suicide.

Playing devil's advocate is not a bad thing. Everybody should be able to explain to others why they believe as they do, even if in they end they end up agreeing to disagree.

[frozenmenace]

Wow GNG...that's deep! I have had this same conversation with my mom (who is an ordained minister). She gave many of the same arguments..but her final thought was "Well, no one has committed suicide and come back to tell us whether they are in Heaven or in Hell, so this is all just interpretation." I have always believed that suicide was unforgivable in the eyes of God...but sometimes I have to challenge my own way of thinking...which is why I started this thread.

Highly Favored, I like to play devil's advocate because I have noticed that a lot of people are just sponges. When you ask them their religious beliefs, they just regurgitate whatever their Pastor tells them they should believe. They don't take the time to fully examine their own beliefs and study for themselves. These are the ones who get frustrated and angry when you get them in a religious conversation.

[GorgeousNgreen]

May 26, 2008 11:06:46 GMT -5 @frozenmenace said:

When you ask them their religious beliefs, they just regurgitate whatever their Pastor tells them they should believe. They don't take the time to fully examine their own beliefs and study for themselves. These are the ones who get frustrated and angry when you get them in a religious conversation.

That is so true.

[Highly Favored]

<<<====firm believer is searching the scriptures and seeking God for myself.

Everyone who claims to be a man/woman of God with a revelation from God is not always right according the scripture. While it is not for me to judge who is and who isn't God's man/woman, it is my responsibility to make sure I know what the Word says regarding a matter. I've really dedicated a lot of my life to doing that.

Another good post, GNG. I love intelligent dialogue re: God's word.

[Mrs. Eyes]

May 26, 2008 11:18:35 GMT -5 GorgeousNgreen said:

May 26, 2008 11:06:46 GMT -5 @frozenmenace said:

When you ask them their religious beliefs, they just regurgitate whatever their Pastor tells them they should believe. They don't take the time to fully examine their own beliefs and study for themselves. These are the ones who get frustrated and angry when you get them in a religious conversation.

That is so true.

Agreed!