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Post by LejaOMG on May 23, 2008 13:56:15 GMT -5
. A lot of students come to school pretty much taken care of (money etc) a lot of parents are willing to help you out with money as long as your showing efforts in school. So you can't use the I have to work excuse.So what are you doing in class? This shows right here that these people aren't priortizing a trait that's important in greek life IMO. wow. Just wow. |
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Post by Robelite on May 23, 2008 14:03:16 GMT -5
I'm not as concerned with appearance as I am perception due to behavior. It's like we tell our small children, pull your pants up and stop acting like a thug and people will be less likely to treat you like one. I have no problem with anyone, especially college students, wilding out. That's what college students do. But to say that thuggish members dont have an inpact on your organizations brand is naive. Doing service is wonderful but our organizations are so much more than that. Well, at least I know Alpha is. We have an obligation to set the example. Service is important but IMHO, the social example we set is much more important. ...and once again, Bro. Cam I'm standing right beside you in support. This has nothing to do with college students having fun. Heaven knows we had our share of fun in undergrad. But let's not be foolish enough to think that presenting a negative image is all good! Looking and acting like a thugged-out hoodlum is NOT the thing to do, in order to assimilate blackness....well....as Cam said...at least in Alpha it's not. Like Al Sharpton said..."we've got to stop associating our blackness with decadence." |
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Post by Bathroom Model on May 23, 2008 14:20:15 GMT -5
. A lot of students come to school pretty much taken care of (money etc) a lot of parents are willing to help you out with money as long as your showing efforts in school. So you can't use the I have to work excuse.So what are you doing in class? This shows right here that these people aren't priortizing a trait that's important in greek life IMO. wow. Just wow. Why wow? Curious. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 23, 2008 14:23:07 GMT -5
I just think folk get so caught up in looking the part and not being the part. Thats why I snicker when old classmates come up in my business and say " Dayum this is your business?"
Yup that same supposedly wild seemingly looking thug is now a business man. Just have fun. I't's simple
Ha!
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Post by what on May 23, 2008 15:27:04 GMT -5
I have LONG since asked why are GPA's the end all be all to determine if someone will make a good candidate?
VP I applaude your post....how can you compare a person with a 4.0 in Dance or Physical Ed and Recreation to a person with a 2.3 in Chemical Engineering? You can't! What about people who had 4.0's and cause more trouble than they are worth on paper?
Back in my day, greeks used to watch you for a while before you got an INVITATION to rush, now anybody with a 3 point can just about "walk" in.
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Post by coldfront06 on May 23, 2008 15:30:50 GMT -5
GPA is not the end all be all factor.
But the fact remains, there SHOULD be a minimum GPA. You will be judged by your GPA after you graduate, whether you want to believe it or not. If you have less than a 2.5, your focus should be on improving that...NOT on joining a fraternity or sorority.
So if you're a Civil Engineering major with a 2.3, you need to be more concerned about the Civil Engineering major with a 3.5, and what you can do to get like him or her.
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Post by what on May 23, 2008 15:37:15 GMT -5
That's understandable cold, but I have read more than quite a few opinions from people on here who felt GPA's play a vital role in membership. However, a GPA doesn't mean you had a good work ethic....grades today are given NOT earned. Not to mention, and I know you know this, most college grades are on a curve, so it's not a true assessment of person's abilities.
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Post by coldfront06 on May 23, 2008 15:42:32 GMT -5
What, its not like we can decipher a candidate's entire life story...lol. There are really only a few things you can judge a candidate by, unless you know him/her personally. GPA is one of those things. It is a reflection of how you've performed in your courses...and your courses are the reason that you're in college. I've heard people say that they wouldn't take a 3.8 student, who strictly focused on his school work. I would DEFINITELY take such a student. What the hell is he in college for? LOL. I don't feel any "sympathy" for a 2.4999 student who was in 15 different extracirricular activities.
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Post by what on May 23, 2008 15:47:34 GMT -5
Nor should you, but is the candidate with a 3.8 well-rounded? If the 2.49 student in everything is well-rounded why not take him? From what I see, every member does not look at the same qualities in every candidate. some want a bookworm while others want someone who is the most popular or has the most money. Some people are not book smart but have an incredible work ethic. That is possible you know! lol
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Post by what on May 23, 2008 15:48:49 GMT -5
...and Cold maybe that's the problem, people are not taking out enough time to "learn" a candidate than just grabbing someone who looks good on paper....
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Post by coldfront06 on May 23, 2008 15:49:33 GMT -5
I guess it just depends on how you look at it. In my opinion, you can only be so "well-rounded" with a 2.49. You aren't doing something well...lol.
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Post by what on May 23, 2008 15:51:00 GMT -5
hahahha, poor Einstein! I guess as a teacher, GPA's to me are soooooooooooooooo overrated.
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Post by coldfront06 on May 23, 2008 15:55:12 GMT -5
I think they are overrated...but you still need some standard. Otherwise, whats to stop someone who has failed EVERY class from seeking membership? I can see it now:
Dude with a 0.0: What up man I wanna pledge Alpha
Me: (Shaking my head) Hmmm...ok...so....whats your GPA?
Dude with a 0.0: I done flunked all my classes, but I'm a member of the NAACP! I'm also a member of the Black Student Association, the Alabama Club, and some other shit. I can't study because I'm always in a meeting...you feel me?
Me: *Crickets*
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Post by huey on May 23, 2008 16:59:24 GMT -5
Some people are not book smart but have an incredible work ethic. than they should use that incredible work ethic to get something higher than a 2.5. |
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Post by Cambist on May 25, 2008 2:11:14 GMT -5
As we slowly make our way to becoming "Just another club" on campus.
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Post by Colourgirlie on May 25, 2008 7:23:51 GMT -5
I am really in favor of higher gpas to start at least a 2.7 and I'm being generous. I mean in undergrad (traditional ug ) your main focus should be your studies everything should be secondary. I mean if your just barely getting a 2.5 for your cumlumitve cumulative I have to ask WHAT DA HELL are you doing? Forget excuses. A lot of students come to school pretty much taken care of (money etc) a lot of parents are willing to help you out with money as long as your showing efforts in school. So you can't use the I have to work excuse.So what are you doing in class? This shows right here that these people aren't priortizing a trait that's important in greek life IMO. You know, some students really are slackers and are only in college for the parties, orgies, and everything else that, at times, spirals into debauchery. The only ones who really "get it" are those who were serious students to begin with and those who get an epiphany at their first mid-term report. True, it may be easy to pull a 2.5 with normal circumstances in life, but some college students' lives today are far from normal and this includes those who are academic hustlers, working for their grades, while also being financial hustlers, making money by respectable and legal means to pay for said academic hustle. IMO I will have to disagree with you on one point. I would dare to say that a lot of students come to school taken care of. That's just being real in this day and time. There are several students who are only in the above situation for the first semester then something changes on them, like their parents getting mad at them for wanting to transfer out of their alma mater. Then there are students who would dream of the above situation but will probably never be privy to it. Case in point, take me for example. First semester was the toughest semester ever for me. Why? Allow me to enumerate. First, I'm a commuter student, with a 2-hour commute each day to and from campus. That eats into my study time, which requires me to either grasp the concepts as quickly as possible or go without sleep for several days. I also have several heavy books to carry three days out of the week and since I don't have the luxury of a room on campus, I have to carry a traveling suitcase each day. (Poor bags. Each one lasts about a semester.) Yes, it's that serious. Some of my classmates used to ask, "Why don't you just stay on campus?" My reply would be, "Would you like to pay for my housing? Because the person that's paying for my education will not do it. Why pay two rents?" And surely I couldn't or wouldn't leave my books in someone's room. I have to study so there's no way to alleviate that problem. Second, I'm a double major in Egyptology and Sculpture. With Egyptology being in the Classics department, I have some very heavy classes that cover a lot of material in short periods of time. Yes, this takes planning and an extreme amount of forgiveness on my spouse's part, which at times during that semester, I didn't get. Being married, taking care of household duties, which is practically what keeps the household in working order, and maintaining my religious responsibilities, are three jobs within themselves. No, I don't have work right now, and at that time working would really sent me over the edge. There are so many balls that I can juggle before I lose concentration. Something has to give. Finally, whether people want to admit it or not, a person's emotional well-being plays a tremendous role in their overall academic performance and retention of material. First semester, things weren't good at home. So that definitely had an impact on my performance, even with me trying to compartmentalize my life. Then, in the middle of the semester, I was made aware of a desire for divorce. That basically killed my concentration and it was like trying to climb a steep mountain with crude oil. I lost two weeks of the semester because of it and that was extremely crucial. I made it out of my first semester with a 2.14 GPA. Do you even know how much that played with my mind? I came out of high school with a 3.74 GPA, so this nearly made me not even want to pursue the next term. But this past semester, I worked my ass off. Literally. If things slid at the house, even though it bothered me, I did what I could and left the rest for the weekend. Caught a lot of flack for that, but trust that I finished this semester with a 3.05, raising my GPA 0.91 points. And I still have to put in work this summer to raise my grade in one of my classes because the professor understood my circumstances and was gracious enough to give me a chance. I'm all for academic excellence and desiring the best candidate, but I do feel that organizations should go back to observing a candidate for a while, getting to know them before making an invitation. Some people are literally struggling to make it and I desire those who put in the time and effort to make the grades despite their circumstances, rather than those who make the minimum requirements without caring. Then again, everyone's priorities must be in order. People who are going to school just to pledge need to be sent back home until they understand the importance of Brown v. The Board and stop taking education for granted. They should also take a year or so to become familiar with their organization of interest, campus members, and regular activities on campus and in the community. People shouldn't just show up at rush and expect to waltz right in. One should strive to become a familiar face and create a good rapport with the members. These are people that you must get to know and if you to succeed in crossing, you will see and work with these people often. Kill two birds with one stone. |
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Post by Vudu_Prince on May 25, 2008 11:41:06 GMT -5
Helllll naw^^^^ WTF? Paragraph alert! lol
It looks like a preface to a Novel.
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Post by BKupInHere on May 25, 2008 12:58:23 GMT -5
<---exalted ColourGirlie for her post
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Post by Bathroom Model on May 27, 2008 7:29:05 GMT -5
Sorry colourgirlie for your experience but your not the type of students I'm talking about. Believe me there are some students that were taken care of. I was one of them and hung around some friends that were in the same situation . We weren't rich, but we didn't have to work our way through college. When we did get jobs it was just for activities not to pay bills. These are the students I'm talking about. Even then, if your going to work so hard to be in school like having to get a job to pay for it and make sacarifices if you already have a family then why not study and make the above average gpa. I mean wouldn't it make all your sacrafices worthwhile to have a full plate outside of school and graduate with honors. I don't think its easy, but not impossible. I am really in favor of higher gpas to start at least a 2.7 and I'm being generous. I mean in undergrad (traditional ug ) your main focus should be your studies everything should be secondary. I mean if your just barely getting a 2.5 for your cumlumitve cumulative I have to ask WHAT DA HELL are you doing? Forget excuses. A lot of students come to school pretty much taken care of (money etc) a lot of parents are willing to help you out with money as long as your showing efforts in school. So you can't use the I have to work excuse.So what are you doing in class? This shows right here that these people aren't priortizing a trait that's important in greek life IMO. You know, some students really are slackers and are only in college for the parties, orgies, and everything else that, at times, spirals into debauchery. The only ones who really "get it" are those who were serious students to begin with and those who get an epiphany at their first mid-term report. True, it may be easy to pull a 2.5 with normal circumstances in life, but some college students' lives today are far from normal and this includes those who are academic hustlers, working for their grades, while also being financial hustlers, making money by respectable and legal means to pay for said academic hustle. IMO I will have to disagree with you on one point. I would dare to say that a lot of students come to school taken care of. That's just being real in this day and time. There are several students who are only in the above situation for the first semester then something changes on them, like their parents getting mad at them for wanting to transfer out of their alma mater. Then there are students who would dream of the above situation but will probably never be privy to it. Case in point, take me for example. First semester was the toughest semester ever for me. Why? Allow me to enumerate. First, I'm a commuter student, with a 2-hour commute each day to and from campus. That eats into my study time, which requires me to either grasp the concepts as quickly as possible or go without sleep for several days. I also have several heavy books to carry three days out of the week and since I don't have the luxury of a room on campus, I have to carry a traveling suitcase each day. (Poor bags. Each one lasts about a semester.) Yes, it's that serious. Some of my classmates used to ask, "Why don't you just stay on campus?" My reply would be, "Would you like to pay for my housing? Because the person that's paying for my education will not do it. Why pay two rents?" And surely I couldn't or wouldn't leave my books in someone's room. I have to study so there's no way to alleviate that problem. Second, I'm a double major in Egyptology and Sculpture. With Egyptology being in the Classics department, I have some very heavy classes that cover a lot of material in short periods of time. Yes, this takes planning and an extreme amount of forgiveness on my spouse's part, which at times during that semester, I didn't get. Being married, taking care of household duties, which is practically what keeps the household in working order, and maintaining my religious responsibilities, are three jobs within themselves. No, I don't have work right now, and at that time working would really sent me over the edge. There are so many balls that I can juggle before I lose concentration. Something has to give. Finally, whether people want to admit it or not, a person's emotional well-being plays a tremendous role in their overall academic performance and retention of material. First semester, things weren't good at home. So that definitely had an impact on my performance, even with me trying to compartmentalize my life. Then, in the middle of the semester, I was made aware of a desire for divorce. That basically killed my concentration and it was like trying to climb a steep mountain with crude oil. I lost two weeks of the semester because of it and that was extremely crucial. I made it out of my first semester with a 2.14 GPA. Do you even know how much that played with my mind? I came out of high school with a 3.74 GPA, so this nearly made me not even want to pursue the next term. But this past semester, I worked my ass off. Literally. If things slid at the house, even though it bothered me, I did what I could and left the rest for the weekend. Caught a lot of flack for that, but trust that I finished this semester with a 3.05, raising my GPA 0.91 points. And I still have to put in work this summer to raise my grade in one of my classes because the professor understood my circumstances and was gracious enough to give me a chance. I'm all for academic excellence and desiring the best candidate, but I do feel that organizations should go back to observing a candidate for a while, getting to know them before making an invitation. Some people are literally struggling to make it and I desire those who put in the time and effort to make the grades despite their circumstances, rather than those who make the minimum requirements without caring. Then again, everyone's priorities must be in order. People who are going to school just to pledge need to be sent back home until they understand the importance of Brown v. The Board and stop taking education for granted. They should also take a year or so to become familiar with their organization of interest, campus members, and regular activities on campus and in the community. People shouldn't just show up at rush and expect to waltz right in. One should strive to become a familiar face and create a good rapport with the members. These are people that you must get to know and if you to succeed in crossing, you will see and work with these people often. Kill two birds with one stone. |
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Post by pinkngreen06 on Jun 1, 2008 14:01:23 GMT -5
I know I'm hella late onthis but I will say that I didn't like this entry because it does not accurately address the problem. IMO the reason why there are more "ghetto folks" joining D9 orgs is because more people are going to college. These days college is more like the 13th grade and not an institution of higher learning where the applicants are the best and the brightest. I think that's a problem that is caused by more and more schools recruiting applicants that are typically the first in their family to go to college and typically have not been exposed to such institutions prior to enrolling at college.
If they continue to recruit students that aren't mature what kind of student do you think is going to apply to your org. ?
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Post by Robelite on Jun 3, 2008 13:54:22 GMT -5
Exhalts pinkngreen for "the 13th grade!" Matter of fact, I exhalt you TWICE for that...as well as everything else in your post. I'm gonna cut and paste this and save it in a "Food for Thought" file.  |
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Post by Cambist on Jun 3, 2008 14:19:01 GMT -5
Ditto what Robelite said. I've been saying that the quality of student on college campuses is declining for years. Yet, we continue to lower our standards to take them in.
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Post by Bathroom Model on Jun 3, 2008 14:19:38 GMT -5
excatly.
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Post by Cambist on Jun 3, 2008 14:26:42 GMT -5
Robe, Cold...check your e-mail.
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Post by pinkngreen06 on Jun 4, 2008 6:52:12 GMT -5
Thanks Robe and Cam. Honestly GPA doesn't influnce the quality recruit / intrest you have because you can teach any idiot to take a test or write a paper.
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Post by pinkngreen06 on Jun 4, 2008 6:55:31 GMT -5
Ditto what Robelite said. I've been saying that the quality of student on college campuses is declining for years. Yet, we continue to lower our standards to take them in. That is due to the political climate and people who come from the school of thought that giving people from a certain economic class ie not the middle class, 2-3rd generation college student who is NOT academically strong enought to enter these institutions. Which makes a BA these days about as useful as only having a High School diploma. |
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Post by Southie on Jun 4, 2008 7:13:59 GMT -5
I am really in favor of higher gpas to start at least a 2.7 and I'm being generous. I mean in undergrad (traditional ug ) your main focus should be your studies everything should be secondary. I mean if your just barely getting a 2.5 for your cumlumitve I have to ask WHAT DA HELL are you doing? Forget excuses. A lot of students come to school pretty much taken care of (money etc) a lot of parents are willing to help you out with money as long as your showing efforts in school. So you can't use the I have to work excuse.So what are you doing in class? This shows right here that these people aren't priortizing a trait that's important in greek life IMO. Next, we can't get mad at these ghetto neos .We need to get mad at these members who voted them in the first place. I'm pretty sure these people didn't just start acting like this once they crossed. I don't care what you say no process can change a hoodrat/ chris crunk into a outstanding member. I've always been a believer in seeking out prospectives that are basically members they just don't have their letters yet. I think if you find people like that you can never go wrong. Elite isn't a bad word. Their are some chapters that have some very high G.P.A requirements. Now, in regards to ghetto acting Neo's that is a small sign of the the generation today. Ghetto fabulous is thought of as being "the in thing". Every generation has their "in" thing, and the prior generation tends to look down at it for very good reasons. |
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Post by AKAWriter on Jun 4, 2008 8:32:06 GMT -5
This is a very interesting post.
Like someone mentioned earlier, I think 2.5 is a happy medium. Just because you don't excell in class, doesn't mean you're not smart. Some folks just don't grasp the concept of XYZ class and therefore a C or D in that class is going to hurt their GPA.
Also, I don't agree with the comment that you are judged on your GPA after graudation. It may be for different majors, but so far, most employers are concerned about your experience and work eithic. You can have a 4.0 and not know a darn thing! I've seen it before and it's really sad.
I really think aspirants need to observed and interviewed to see if they will be a good fit in that particular organization.
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Post by Cambist on Jun 2, 2010 9:21:33 GMT -5
**bump**
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Post by Robelite on Jun 2, 2010 9:34:59 GMT -5
This is a very interesting post. Like someone mentioned earlier, I think 2.5 is a happy medium. Just because you don't excell in class, doesn't mean you're not smart. Some folks just don't grasp the concept of XYZ class and therefore a C or D in that class is going to hurt their GPA. Also, I don't agree with the comment that you are judged on your GPA after graudation. It may be for different majors, but so far, most employers are concerned about your experience and work eithic. You can have a 4.0 and not know a darn thing! I've seen it before and it's really sad. I really think aspirants need to observed and interviewed to see if they will be a good fit in that particular organization. Since Cam bumped this thread back up today....  That "observation" is what Tap Day was all about, and I've been saying for the longest....BRING BACK TAP DAY!!! |
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