konfucius1911
OOA pledge
"Failure (in itself) is NOT a sin, but LOW AIM most definitely is."
Posts: 204
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Post by konfucius1911 on Mar 4, 2008 16:50:48 GMT -5
And many men are VOTING AGAINST her because she is a woman . . . EXACTLY; which is why I said earlier ...consider first the plight of women in AMERICAN-History |
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Post by Champs Elysees on Mar 4, 2008 16:55:05 GMT -5
I think Obama's ethnic background and cultural experiences combined with his intelligence make him a great person to repair our ties with other countries around the world.
Yet another reason I'm supporting him . . .
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 4, 2008 17:01:23 GMT -5
Her being a woman is not ... are issue based not gender based. If you REALLY believe that gender is NOT an issue in the political process [especially THIS year], then you are NOT living in the reality. Hell, simply turn on the TV [or review YouTube-postings] and listen to the reason many people are considering HILLARY. Yes, her self-professed glorified history is a factor, but even SHE make constant references to being a WOMAN.
Do I understand that his race is also a factor? Sure. But I am suggesting to you and anyone else that will listen that THAT is not the reason you should vote for him, whereas his stance on the issues IS.
If Hillary was the best candidate out of the three, it is counter-intuitive to say, "well first we need to consider how other cultures treat women". We are NOT other cultures. Her gender may be an issue for people from cultures who are NOT U.S. citizens... but since when is that an overriding issue in an American election?
Hell, how well are white males viewed in parts of Asia and the Middle East? Do we factor that in before we vote for them? Do we stop and say, well after George Bush, another white male might not be well received in Africa and Asia so maybe we shouldn't vote for him?"
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konfucius1911
OOA pledge
"Failure (in itself) is NOT a sin, but LOW AIM most definitely is."
Posts: 204
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Post by konfucius1911 on Mar 4, 2008 20:09:47 GMT -5
Her gender might be an issue but I am suggesting to you is it NOT something that informed voters should be basing their votes on - cause it's not a legitimate issue. OPERATIVE WORDS: "Informed Voters" and "SHOULD not (be a basis)". REALITY: The "informed voter" is definitely the MINORITY in this election-process. Furthermore, the discussion os not about the desired utopian system. We're addressing the Capitalist pseudo-Democracy of the USA. Her gender may be an issue for people from cultures who are NOT U.S. citizens... but since when is that an overriding issue in an American election?  In what country are YOU living, because its obviously NOT the USA Hell, how well are white males viewed in parts of Asia and the Middle East? Now you're merely attempting to circumvent the reality with a irrelevant tangent. Hell, how well are white males viewed in parts of Asia and the Middle East? Do we factor that in before we vote for them? Do we stop and say, well after George Bush, another white male might not be well received in Africa and Asia so maybe we shouldn't vote for him?" Again, you are attempting to divert the discussion with filibustering. Her gender may be an issue for people from cultures who are NOT U.S. citizens... but since when is that an overriding issue in an American election? When has the peoples' concerns ever truly even been earnestly considered by the candidates POST obtaining their desired office; or until they are up re-election. But for the record [in response to your statement] When has it NOT been an over-riding concern? Whenever you return the USA, please let us know; 'cause it seems that you're arguing the position of the political-system of NEVER, NEVER LAND. |
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Post by Worthy Most Ancient Matron on Mar 4, 2008 23:03:27 GMT -5
Ah screw how Obama's perceived. Hillary is a fighter. That's all that matters. Actually, that is NOT all that matters. During an international conflict [similar the quagmire created by that "Son of a BUSH" in the White House], women ARE NOT universally respected by foreign HEADS of STATE; especially in NORTH AFRICA [from Morocco] to the far EAST [Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, etc]. Many seem to FORGET that this is not a mere DOMESTIC position. As a Muslim [rather in Europe, W. Afriqa, Oman, and the USA], I can assure you the opinion of a FEMALE "Head of State" is NOT taken seriously. Tired of typing, but consider the fate of Benazir Bhutto. ... and before there is a barrage of responses exclaiming chauvanistic-sexism in Muslim Lands; consider first the plight of women in AMERICAN-History You get the KNEEGROW nod from me  |
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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 4, 2008 23:10:49 GMT -5
I just NEEDED to get back on here from my absolutely BUSY life (lol) to salute HILLARY for winning Ohio! That ***** put up a fight and she got it. (I'm slightly enebriated right now, so I'm happy for HIllary lol)
That ***** did that s#&* and she deserved it. She campaigned her ass off.
OBAMA 08!
lol
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Post by coldfront06 on Mar 4, 2008 23:13:39 GMT -5
LOL
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Post by Champs Elysees on Mar 5, 2008 8:19:07 GMT -5
My Take on the March 4 Primaries: Yesterday was Obama's opportunity to show that he could win the big states. He didn't. Thank God the primaries aren't winner take all like with the Repubs.
He HAS to win Pennsylvania.
Although Latinos won't vote for him, I did think Obama would take Texas by a small margin. I'm surprised by that one. They DO matter more than I thought.
Another thing, seniors voted overwhelmingly for Clinton over Obama (no surprise here), but YOUNG people DID NOT TURN OUT like Obama thought they would.
Much of his grassroots campaign is based on young people voting. The older voters are going with the safer choice (Clinton). It the young people don't vote for Obama, it's a wrap.
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Post by coldfront06 on Mar 5, 2008 9:19:06 GMT -5
I agree with LadyL
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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 5, 2008 9:29:09 GMT -5
Like I said, I'm actually impressed by her endurance in this election. Although slightly annoying, hey, she wants it. And I don't think it would be the end of the world if she got the nomination. I agree Lady L. This is kind of a repeat of 4 years ago, when younger voters talked a big game and didn't show up to vote like they should have. And if the media also begins to back Clinton, it will be over then too. This is gonna get ugly  You have to wonder though, whether the suggestion Rush Limbaugh made had anything to do with her wins... |
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Post by water on Mar 5, 2008 9:36:05 GMT -5
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Post by Champs Elysees on Mar 5, 2008 9:44:50 GMT -5
That's the thing, Water.
Obama is being lifted up to be torn down. The only minority group that will support him en masse is blacks. Whites are going to supprot him until Nov. when they will vote for McCain.
Hillary is too divisive. The people who hate her, HATE her! She can't win like that and she took money from lobbyists on the behalf of big business (way to go disgruntled blue-collar workers in Ohio! ;D ).
John McCain is better than Bush, but he's going to do whatever he can to make the conservatives happy, which will be bad for the little guy.
I say, get on your grind and get your money right. We're in for a doozy.
<-------'s hope has been deflated
<------- will still ride the Obama train till the wheels fall off!
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Post by Cambist on Mar 5, 2008 9:50:08 GMT -5
The problem is, Nadar is a consumer advocate and not a politician. It's easy to say that a politician is a pawn of corporate America. It's usually the truth. Our national religion is Capitalism everyone, in some shape form or fashion, worships at that evil alter.
Nader is good at what he does which is pointing out flaws in the system. He should stick to it.
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Post by Champs Elysees on Mar 5, 2008 10:00:49 GMT -5
The problem is, Nadar is a consumer advocate and not a politician. It's easy to say that a politician is a pawn of corporate America. It's usually the truth. Our national religion is Capitalism everyone, in some shape form or fashion, worships at that evil alter. Nader is good at what he does which is pointing out flaws in the system. He should stick to it.  |
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Post by water on Mar 5, 2008 10:12:57 GMT -5
Nader knows he can not win this crazy race but He is pointing out the area where all these insiders lack .......  economics gone crazy....Huckabee is gone and he was down to scrap the IRS that would be a good start...... Ron Pail is out and he would of made a stink in Washington.......They dont want that.........so who is left insiders who aint gonna change nothing . the debt will continue to roll but their is hope maybe they will pick a VP that will have some influence over this red ink country and put it in the BLACK .................................DEBT FREE  |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 5, 2008 10:28:30 GMT -5
This is an example of a non-response. Pseudo-Democracy and Capitalism are related to Candidates personal asthetics and image how? The discussion was about non-issues being issues was it not... and now you wanna move the goal post?
What country are you living in where you think that the fact that Hillary is a woman is a legitimate political issue? If it is a legitimate political issue it is one on which her opponents can confront her. Do you seriously think that anyone is going to campaign against Hillary and make one of the plancks of their platform that you ought not to vote for Hillary because she is a woman? Race is a factor, not an issue. Gender is a factor NOT an issue. Do you NOT understand that there is a difference?
An easier response for you might be to just say, that you can't refute the analogy and you can't come up with a counter point. Because if we need to consider the fact that Hillary is a woman and that some Heads of State of OTHER countries won't respect her before we vote for her, then I guess the Republicans were likewise justified in the last election cycle in saying that we shouldn't have voted for Kerry, because, "the terrorists want you to vote for Kerry". So we should think about what people in OTHER countries think and their cultural perceptions before we elect OUR president. Not only does the logic NOT hold, but it is incongruent with reality.
Rarely if ever. But this is related how? How does this fold into the discussion on whether or not we should take into account Hillary's gender and how she will be received by the International Community before we vote? I'm not even a Hillary fan or supporter but this argument makes absolutely no sense to me.
Please show me an example, just 1 example, of where we vote for OUR president based on how well or poorly we think they'll be received by OTHER countries based on their race, gender, religion, etc in recent history. Just 1. If you can find one, it will help me identify the alternate universe in which you currently reside.
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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 5, 2008 10:49:44 GMT -5
lol@ Damie
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Post by akbarjones on Mar 5, 2008 10:50:34 GMT -5
Once again unless Hillary can win 70% of the vote for the remaining primaries she will not get the delegate lead over Obama and the superdelegates will not vote for someone that has less delegates and the lowest popular vote. Hillary can be the first female vice president if she's lucky.
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 5, 2008 10:54:42 GMT -5
She's already campaigning to get Florida and Michigan included.
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Post by QUIET As Kept on Mar 5, 2008 11:02:45 GMT -5
She's been talking about Florida & Michigan since Super Tuesday. The reality is, the Democrats KNOW that there's no way to count Michigan & Florida at this point without pissing off a large chunk of voters unless they revote in those states. Now the question is what is more important to the DNC..making the Clintons happy or winning the White House. She's already campaigning to get Florida and Michigan included. |
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Post by Cambist on Mar 5, 2008 11:05:03 GMT -5
That would be so foul. I mean....that would be beyond crooked. She would never win a general election after doing that.
The Republicans would have such a field day with that action that her trustworthiness would be out the window.
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Post by akbarjones on Mar 5, 2008 11:09:02 GMT -5
She signed the form before the primaries along with the other candidates and the DNC that Florida and MI would not count as a protest to moving up Super Tuesday. Obama was not even on the ballot in MI and now she wants to changes the rules after the game is over. Sorry.
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Post by No Screen Name on Mar 5, 2008 11:30:55 GMT -5
The problem is, Nadar is a consumer advocate and not a politician. It's easy to say that a politician is a pawn of corporate America. It's usually the truth. Our national religion is Capitalism everyone, in some shape form or fashion, worships at that evil alter. Nader is good at what he does which is pointing out flaws in the system. He should stick to it. As I've said in other posts, I am a BIG-TIME Nader supporter in terms of his consumer advocacy work, and the huge strides he's made in areas in this country to keep people safe and healthy that most people aren't even aware of (airbags in cars, the formation of the EPA, getting unsafe cars and products out of the marketplace, etc.). He's telling the truth. But he does need to get back to his original passion, and leave the politics alone. From what I understand, he decided to get in the race after John Edwards got out, because he was the only one speaking on certain issues. After he got out of the race, he wanted to keep the issues of poverty, universal health care and big corporations on the front burner. From what I understand, young people historically NEVER have good voter turnout. I have heard talk show hosts point to the presidential race back in the seventies (I want to say 1972) when George McGovern was running, and even more recently with Howard Dean in 2000. Just like Obama, these candidates moved the young crowds, pulled in huge numbers of the youth at rallies, got tons and tons of young people registered to vote. They get the excitement built up and people buzzing. But historically they just don't show up at the polls. |
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Post by water on Mar 5, 2008 12:04:24 GMT -5
votescam
big time elections are sort of like PRO wrestling you know its fake but its great entertainment.
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Post by water on Mar 5, 2008 12:13:36 GMT -5
local elections are like amateur wrestling They can be phony too but much easier to regulate |
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Post by Oren Ishii on Mar 5, 2008 14:03:29 GMT -5
I can't even lie...Water, this really made me LOL SMH votescam big time elections are sort of like PRO wrestling you know its fake but its great entertainment. |
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Post by water on Mar 5, 2008 14:34:31 GMT -5
thats why when ron paul speaks about money and finance that get all quiet or want to joke because most politicians have sold their soul to corporate America. They picking on your boy Obame because he mentioned NAFTA ...Thats the govt mob money he better be quiet lol ....not really
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Post by water on Mar 5, 2008 14:50:47 GMT -5
Chinese/ maquiladoras  NAFTA GAT WTO the economic Issues get no RUN |
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Post by No Screen Name on Mar 5, 2008 15:13:05 GMT -5
Dennis Kucinich talked about overturning NAFTA. But of course, he had no chance of winning.
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Post by Southie on Mar 5, 2008 15:43:14 GMT -5
Well Texas Ohio went to Hillary and Vermont went to Obama. As I have been telling people, this race will go down to the wire at the Convention. McCain is sitting in a comfortable spot at the moment, because the Dems are having a hard time getting to one strong, consistent, candidate.
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In what country are YOU living, because its obviously NOT the USA
NAFTA GAT WTO