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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 4, 2008 10:26:28 GMT -5
This has kind of been the question for all the political analysts, but I want to see what you guys think...
If Obama wins today, should Hillary drop out? On the flip side, if Hillary wins, do you think she stands a chance to receive the Democratic nomination?
Would she have a devisive effect on the party if she stays in the race, considering she may not win today?
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Post by Nupey on Mar 4, 2008 10:33:36 GMT -5
I dont know sweetheart. I hope Obama wins, its seems like he's the one most people want to win. He's very charismatic, and she is so.....well...I'll leave it that...I dont want to come off "disrespecting women"
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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 4, 2008 10:39:10 GMT -5
Well it's one thing to disagree with her views, or to support Obama, but it's another thing to disrepect her.
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Post by coldfront06 on Mar 4, 2008 10:43:51 GMT -5
No, I don't think Hillary will or even should drop out if she loses today. I wouldn't if I was in her position. The delegate race would still be close. Yes, if Hillary wins today, she has a chance to win the nomination.
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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 4, 2008 10:49:41 GMT -5
I agree!! Everybody is so pro-Obama right now (I am too) but I don't know...I was on the fence for a long time between the two of them, and sometimes I don't think it's fair the way we've all come down on her. But then again, I'm a softie. To have come this far is incredible in itself for her.
I think that it's good that they're so close in their platforms, it shouldn't be devisive because either one would be good for the country.
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Post by Nupey on Mar 4, 2008 10:52:05 GMT -5
I just dont understand how Black people can possibly be on the Fence about Obama? I can understand if Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson were running, but Barack is a Sharp Dude. It upsets me when I hear about the "Old Guard" finally deciding to switch sides and Black people talking about the Clintons like they REALLY GIVE A Dang about Black People....
Crabs in a Barrel..
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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 4, 2008 10:59:43 GMT -5
Okay, you digress.
So what if it were Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson? They're pretty sharp too. What, just because Barack has a Harvard law degree, it makes him smarter? If you can recall, Jesse Jackson was doing pretty good until he messed himself up.
I can be on the fence about Obama because I do remember the Clinton administration, and even though I was young, he did help a lot of people that hadn't been touched by the Republican party.
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Post by Nupey on Mar 4, 2008 11:10:16 GMT -5
Lets not be Naive sweetheart. The ONLY people that care about Black people, are Black People. Dont believe the Hype.
Barack is our ONE chance of having OUR GUY in the Whitehouse after 200 years of THEIR GUY....Why not take a chance?
Did you really think white men would vote for Jessie Jackson when he's on Every Racial case that can gain him publicity?
Obama is smart, he makes the race about EVERYBODY not just black people (even though he undoubtly has their INTEREST at heart) he can't go around talking about Black power...He's smart....
Black people need to wake up and realize this is OUR GUY, TODAYS MLK JR....
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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 4, 2008 11:23:42 GMT -5
First of all, quit calling me sweetheart.  I'm anything BUT naive. I agree with you. I'm not saying that Barack isn't a great candidate, he is. It's amazing, and it should give Black people hope in this country. That being said... I think you should open up your mind to the possibility that Black people are sometimes racist against themselves. Do you realize that when Barack began, most black people were rooting for Hillary? You want to know why? Because they wanted to "protect" him against possibly being subjected to the evil wills of the white people. You want to know what else? Black people usually vote for what they know. If the Clinton's didn't care so much for the black people, why do they garner the vote of the industrial working class? And why does Barack get the vote of the upperclass Democrats? Think about it. You make a lot of good points, but then again, a lot of your points are on the surface. |
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Post by Nupey on Mar 4, 2008 11:30:28 GMT -5
Lol...the clintons garnered those votes because they WANTED TO WIN...Any candidate will say ANYTHING to win...and the Clintons SAID and DID what they had to do to get the BLACK VOTE...
How many Black homes did the Clintons visit BEFORE they were presidential Candidates? I gurantee Obama visited MANY...
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 4, 2008 11:59:41 GMT -5
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
You know... I'm not one to stifle debate or to encourage people to just run with the masses. But there's really not much to think about here if you've actually done an analysis. It's not about being pro-black, or pro-Obama, it's just about going with the clear choice..
Barack wins the argument when it comes to:
The decision to go to Iraq
Campaign finance reform
Election Transparency
Release of Tax Records (Obama has done it, Hillary has not)
Free Trade Agreements
Legislative resume (35 years experience - whose exaggerating here?)
Ability to work with moderates and independents
Ability to finance campaign from individual donors instead of corporate fat kats
A Healthcare plan that has a chance of surviving
Better appeal with youth and educated and independents
Ability to Energize Democratic Base as opposed to Republican Base
I could go on and on and on. I guess I'm amazed that there are still questions about this.
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Post by Cambist on Mar 4, 2008 12:04:25 GMT -5
Should she drop out? No.
Will she drop out? Probably not.
I want Obama to be vetted through this system. He is my man but the Republicans will not be merciful. They don't have a strong candidate so their entire campaign will be about ripping apart the Democratic Nominee.
NAFTA- They will claim that they are protectionist.
Iraq War- They will claim that Dems are helping terrorist, anti- U.S. Troops and anti-freedom for Iraq.
Economy- They will claim that raising taxes will kill the economy and that not making the tax cuts permanent will have the same effect.
Health Care- They will re-invent the "C" word. Democrats will be labeled as socialists, communists, Godless Commies, etc....
So yes, I want this race to get as ugly as possible. Get the dirt out now so that we can be ready for it in the general election race.
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konfucius1911
OOA pledge
"Failure (in itself) is NOT a sin, but LOW AIM most definitely is."
Posts: 204
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Post by konfucius1911 on Mar 4, 2008 12:34:30 GMT -5
So what if it were Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson? They're pretty sharp too. For the past decade or so, I have believed that certain key-elements are commonly overlooked by the America's potential & active voting constituents; especially among African-American. Although I am sure many of you will (possibly) disagree with my analysis/assessment of the US political environment, please allow me the opportunity to state the following: Prior to the recent Iowa Preliminaries, I believed that " the United States of America is neither ready, nor even WILLING to accept an African-American male as President [Commander-in-Chief] of this country." It has been my personal observation that - despite the disillusioned concept of many working-aged African-Americans in the USA that " we HAVE overcome." - this country is STILL very divided politically by racial polarization (and/or deprivation). Many of my Black and non-Black colleagues have argued with me that this country IS indeed willing to elect (and support) an African-American President. I strongly disagree; and these are my reasons: - Many have argued that the PROOF this country IS willing to elect (and support) and African-American President is because the country has "allowed" Black men - such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton - to enter the presidential race in past years.
======================= MY RESPONSE: The fact that they characterized the candidacy of either of the aforementioned men as an " allowance" [or, I dare say, " a permission"] to enter the race speaks volumes. Additionally, no American [Black or White] desires to be addressed from the White House in the " State of the Union Address"] in a sermon-like manner of a hem-hawing and hanting 'Reverend'. Thus the reason (although I respect him for his Civil activism history), Jesse Jackson was NEVER ( in my eyes) seen as a viable candidate; and/or threat against his opponents. Doubly so, this also stands true for Al Sharpton ; and NO ONE (Black or White) is seriously about to allow a TCB-permed Black man to be the international representative and 'face' of this nation to foreign diplomats. HELL NO !!  |
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Post by Nupey on Mar 4, 2008 12:39:46 GMT -5
Thank you Konfucious.
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Post by Cambist on Mar 4, 2008 13:04:03 GMT -5
How many Black governors do we have?
How many Black Senators have he HAD throughout history?
These positions, like presidential candidates, are voted on in STATEWIDE elections. So, you tell me how ready the country is?
Obama is a true contender but wait till the general election. It's going to take more than hope to beat Karl Rove and the hate/fear machine.
He better hope Hillary doesn't hold back.
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Post by Bunny Hop on Mar 4, 2008 13:06:03 GMT -5
I thought Hillary has already said she's not dropping out. I don't expect her too even though I think she should. She'll do anything she can right up to the last minute to win.
Her nomination will break the spirits of so many people. It won't become a vote for the right person...instead it'll be a voting for the lesser of two evils or voting for the opposition simply becuase they don't want to vote for her.
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 4, 2008 13:09:20 GMT -5
A smear campaign is NOT the same thing as vetting.
By this rationale, the defense should "punch the quarterback" in the mouth during practice get him ready for the actual game.
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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 4, 2008 13:10:55 GMT -5
So what if it were Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson? They're pretty sharp too. For the past decade or so, I have believed that certain key-elements are commonly overlooked by the America's potential & active voting constituents; especially among African-American. Although I am sure many of you will (possibly) disagree with my analysis/assessment of the US political environment, please allow me the opportunity to state the following: Prior to the recent Iowa Preliminaries, I believed that " the United States of America is neither ready, nor even WILLING to accept an African-American male as President [Commander-in-Chief] of this country." It has been my personal observation that - despite the disillusioned concept of many working-aged African-Americans in the USA that " we HAVE overcome." - this country is STILL very divided politically by racial polarization (and/or deprivation). Many of my Black and non-Black colleagues have argued with me that this country IS indeed willing to elect (and support) an African-American President. I strongly disagree; and these are my reasons: - Many have argued that the PROOF this country IS willing to elect (and support) and African-American President is because the country has "allowed" Black men - such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton - to enter the presidential race in past years.
======================= MY RESPONSE: The fact that they characterized the candidacy of either of the aforementioned men as an " allowance" [or, I dare say, " a permission"] to enter the race speaks volumes. Additionally, no American [Black or White] desires to be addressed from the White House in the "State of the Union Address"] in a sermon-like manner of a hem-hawing and hanting 'Reverend'. Thus the reason (although I respect him for his Civil activism history), Jesse Jackson was NEVER ( in my eyes) seen as a viable candidate; and/or threat against his opponents. Doubly so, this also stands true for Al Sharpton ; and NO ONE (Black or White) is seriously about to allow a TCB-permed Black man to be the international representative and 'face' of this nation to foreign diplomats. HELL NO !! And this form of thought is what's wrong with our black society. |
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Post by Nupey on Mar 4, 2008 13:15:08 GMT -5
What form Crimson, please dont make rash statements withuot explaining....
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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 4, 2008 13:16:17 GMT -5
The form of thought that discriminates against our own.
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Post by Nupey on Mar 4, 2008 13:19:39 GMT -5
What are you talking about? Your not making sense. What part of his post says that he or anyone is "discriminating against our own"?
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Post by Cambist on Mar 4, 2008 13:24:20 GMT -5
Jackson and Sharpton are and were during their campaigns, Race Politicians. They made their livings addressing issues of race. They were never real contenders because they could never be elected.
And yes, Al Sharpton could not be taken seriously with that Bantu perm any more than John Edwards would have been taken seriously with a mullet.
@ Damie
Smear campaigns are EXACTLY like vetting. The Republican party will not be rosey and simply lay out Obamas legislative record while staying aways from any inflammatory (and downright borderline false) accusations and smear to win the White House.
Not exposing him to smear is like putting a red jersey on the running backs during practice and saying don't hit them. And then expecting them not to fumble during the game.
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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 4, 2008 13:30:41 GMT -5
OMG Nupey. I'll break it down for you. To say that no American [Black or White] desires to be addressed from the White House in the " State of the Union Address"] in a sermon-like manner of a hem-hawing and hanting 'Reverend'. Doubly so, this also stands true for Al Sharpton ; and NO ONE (Black or White) is seriously about to allow a TCB-permed Black man to be the international representative and 'face' of this nation to foreign diplomats. HELL NO !! is a mandate on their character based on physical appearance and emotional appeal. So we vote for Obama because he speaks well (i.e. like a white person) and he was raised by white people? AGAIN, I SUPPORT OBAMA! But i'm trying to make the point that if he was a dark-skinned, southern talking man he may not have gotten the same response. What the hell? If Jesse Jackson speaks in sermon, that shouldn't make him ANY less viable than Barack Obama who went to Harvard! Do you understand now? I'm just saying make a point that's better than that. I know they weren't viable. But that's not a good point that he made. |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 4, 2008 13:34:57 GMT -5
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
Rush Limbaugh agrees with you Cam. Hillary should stay in and just drop bombs on Obama.
What you're talking about is taking the red jersey off the running back, and having your defense hit him so hard he breaks his arm, and then expect him to do well in the upcoming game. There is a reason why the Republicans are urging Huckabee to get out. And I can gurantee you they don't think Huckabee is tuning McCain up for what the Democrats have in store for him - he is forcing McCain to divert time and resources to keep campaigining instead of focusing on Obama.
You know that the Republicans AREN'T waiting for Hillary to finish to start their smear campaign.
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Post by CrimsonENDvy on Mar 4, 2008 13:36:28 GMT -5
^^^I totally agree with that!
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Post by Nupey on Mar 4, 2008 13:38:48 GMT -5
OMG Nupey. I'll break it down for you. To say that no American [Black or White] desires to be addressed from the White House in the " State of the Union Address"] in a sermon-like manner of a hem-hawing and hanting 'Reverend'. Doubly so, this also stands true for Al Sharpton ; and NO ONE (Black or White) is seriously about to allow a TCB-permed Black man to be the international representative and 'face' of this nation to foreign diplomats. HELL NO !!
What facts do you have? What does his SKIN COMPLEXTION have to do with it? He's not marching up and down Jena, LA talking about "Free at last" for kids who were WRONG IN THE FIRST PLACE. He's not having affairs with his interns! He's not sitting with TAVIS SMILEY shimmeying talking about NONSENSE.How doesn't it? Jesse Jackson is a no more viable to be president than your NEIGHBORHOOD Pastor. Name some on Jesse Jackson's contributions to the legislation. Name ONE law he helped pass, name ONE Senate seat he sat in. He doesnt have the experience, the APPEAL (To whites and Blacks) neither does he have the CHARISMA that Obama has. Do you understand now? |
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Post by Champs Elysees on Mar 4, 2008 13:42:54 GMT -5
I just dont understand how Black people can possibly be on the Fence about Obama? I can understand if Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson were running, but Barack is a Sharp Dude. It upsets me when I hear about the "Old Guard" finally deciding to switch sides and Black people talking about the Clintons like they REALLY GIVE A Dang about Black People.... Crabs in a Barrel..
Nupe, I love you, but you left yourself open for that one. |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Mar 4, 2008 13:45:51 GMT -5
OMG Nupey. I'll break it down for you. To say that no American [Black or White] desires to be addressed from the White House in the " State of the Union Address"] in a sermon-like manner of a hem-hawing and hanting 'Reverend'. Doubly so, this also stands true for Al Sharpton ; and NO ONE (Black or White) is seriously about to allow a TCB-permed Black man to be the international representative and 'face' of this nation to foreign diplomats. HELL NO !! is a mandate on their character based on physical appearance and emotional appeal. So we vote for Obama because he speaks well (i.e. like a white person) and he was raised by white people? AGAIN, I SUPPORT OBAMA! But i'm trying to make the point that if he was a dark-skinned, southern talking man he may not have gotten the same response. What the hell? If Jesse Jackson speaks in sermon, that shouldn't make him ANY less viable than Barack Obama who went to Harvard! Do you understand now? I'm just saying make a point that's better than that. I know they weren't viable. But that's not a good point that he made.
Alot of people didn't vote for Al Gore because he seemed lifeless and robotic but Bush was the guy you could drink Beers with. That's emotional bias as well. We ALL exhibit it. So again, what does that have to do with this race (cause I'm seriously confused) |
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Post by Nupey on Mar 4, 2008 13:47:41 GMT -5
I just dont understand how Black people can possibly be on the Fence about Obama? I can understand if Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson were running, but Barack is a Sharp Dude. It upsets me when I hear about the "Old Guard" finally deciding to switch sides and Black people talking about the Clintons like they REALLY GIVE A Dang about Black People.... Crabs in a Barrel..
Nupe, I love you, but you left yourself open for that one. |
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Post by Champs Elysees on Mar 4, 2008 13:48:56 GMT -5
How many Black governors do we have?
How many Black Senators have he HAD throughout history?
These positions, like presidential candidates, are voted on in STATEWIDE elections. So, you tell me how ready the country is?
Obama is a true contender but wait till the general election. It's going to take more than hope to beat Karl Rove and the hate/fear machine.
He better hope Hillary doesn't hold back. |
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