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Post by 123Diva on Feb 28, 2008 11:24:04 GMT -5
I suppose.
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Post by Champs Elysees on Feb 28, 2008 11:25:51 GMT -5
How can people take the Bible as it's presented to us so literally when we KNOW that THERE ARE BOOKS THAT WERE PURPOSELY LEFT OUT BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?
I, like Diva, have yet to see where comitting suicide gives you a go to Hell free card.
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Post by Nupey on Feb 28, 2008 11:27:08 GMT -5
How can you repent Lady? Please explain..
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Post by Champs Elysees on Feb 28, 2008 11:27:28 GMT -5
^^it's all a matter of interpretation Diva. |
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Post by kingdelta on Feb 28, 2008 11:29:36 GMT -5
I agree Diva. The bible tells us that is we confess and believe in our hearts we are saved. Is God an Indian giver? Once you are saved you have the gift of eternal life. We all sin but we serve a God who is just to forgive us whether we ask Him to or not. We've had this discussion already on the old board and everyone has their own opinion. Suicide is not different than any other sin. God can and will forgive.
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Post by MochaD on Feb 28, 2008 11:38:42 GMT -5
All of the above, is why I don't have debates, discussions or partake in religious discussions. I've been to many church and experienced many different religions and in a lot of cases I've seen pastor's, preacher's, bishop's, etc. read from the EXACT same bible and have their own interpretation of the EXACT same word. The funny thing is EVERYONE thinks they are right. It's all a personal choice/belief IMO. Nothing to argue or defend because at the end of it all it will be you and you alone before judgment. Live your life according to his word as you see fit according to the word and what you whole-heartedly believe. That's what we pretty much do anyway. True, GOD KNOWS OUR HEARTS! <---Believe suicide is a hell bound decision. <---has nothing else to add to this topic. Great topic and dialog though. Thanks Nupey!  |
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Post by Cambist on Feb 28, 2008 11:41:57 GMT -5
Then how do we justify Capital Punishment? We are still destroying Gods temple. Even if that person committed murder, he/she can't still repent?
On the topic of mental illness...if you have never known, studied or otherwise had intimate knowledge of mental illness then I understand your lack of ability to comprehend a mentally ill person committing suicide.
A person with a certain mental illness, like Aces described, become a totally different person. Often, they are not in touch with reality or THEIR reality is not in touch with OURS. It's not a cut and dry question and answer situation.
Then again, I don't believe that the bible is a TOTAL and exhaustivly comprehensive work of God inspired writings so i'm out of this argument.
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Post by Champs Elysees on Feb 28, 2008 11:43:37 GMT -5
How can you repent Lady? Please explain..
We DO NOT have the ENTIRE Bible, so how can I say anything with conviction about what it contains.
And let's not get on the (mis)interpretation of the books we do have.
Besides, I was taught that "sin is sin," meaing that two men fucking each other is no more wrong or right than a 16 year old girl having a baby and no husband. |
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Post by Nupey on Feb 28, 2008 12:00:18 GMT -5
<------Believes Suicide is a Hell bound sin as well as blasphemey against the holy spirit
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Post by water on Feb 28, 2008 12:01:35 GMT -5
God will write his commandments on your Heart and you will know not to kill yourself.....some people are just saved in their head and their hearts have not been circumcised yet keep praying for them prayer changes thangs in Jesus name
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Post by Search1906 on Feb 28, 2008 12:34:32 GMT -5
Water
I have a question for you. Do you believe that once you are saved you can lose your salvation. Some of you comments have me curious.
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Post by 123Diva on Feb 28, 2008 12:48:51 GMT -5
I agree Diva. The bible tells us that is we confess and believe in our hearts we are saved. Is God an Indian giver? Once you are saved you have the gift of eternal life. We all sin but we serve a God who is just to forgive us whether we ask Him to or not. We've had this discussion already on the old board and everyone has their own opinion. Suicide is not different than any other sin. God can and will forgive. Precisely KD. You read my mind! I think that this argument comes down to where you fall as far as the 'saved and lost' theory. I don't believe that one can lose his/her salvation. Once saved, always saved because God IS NOT this Indian giver that KD mentions. Now, this does not give any of us a blank check to go and live as we feel, because there still remain consequences,and laws of the land in which we live. I'm just not convinced that this consequence is hell for someone who is saved. |
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Post by 123Diva on Feb 28, 2008 12:51:14 GMT -5
If we could lose our salvation many of us (if not all) would be on an Express train to hell. I am thankful that God is the merciful and forgiving God that he is because 'all have sinned...'
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Spawn1963
OOA Interest
I will NOT lose
Posts: 34
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Post by Spawn1963 on Feb 28, 2008 13:28:44 GMT -5
If the act is irrational ie is birthed out of mental imbalance, how can one be held accountable? Accountability is the decision of one Judge (note the capitalization). However, I think your point is that if a suicide is a product of irrational reasoning, then it is less punishable. Conversely, and more importantly, I think your point is that if a suicide is the product of rational reasoning, then it is more punishable. I am asserting that neither a rational or irrational suicide will determine the eternal destination of a soul. If a man is SAVED (by fulling Romans 10:9), then suicide (rational or irrational) will not condemn him. I further assert that replacing the word "suicide" with any other sin (except "Rejecting salvation/redemption") yields the same conclusion. |
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Spawn1963
OOA Interest
I will NOT lose
Posts: 34
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Post by Spawn1963 on Feb 28, 2008 13:42:45 GMT -5
How can people take the Bible as it's presented to us so literally when we KNOW that THERE ARE BOOKS THAT WERE PURPOSELY LEFT OUT BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? I take the Bible literally, because God has given us enough instruction in the current (tampered) Bible to establish a connection to HIS HOLY SPIRIT from which the truth of ALL THINGS flows. Example: The Bible (with or without additional book) doesn't say looking at porn on the Internet is a sin, but why can we all agree that it is? His Holy Spirit. My whole point is that Jesus ABOLISHED the law and old covenent (testament) replacing them with new commandments and promises. He who chooses the new commandment of love will live in love. He who doesn't not choose the new commandment will fall under the old law, of which everyone is found guilty. Suicide does not change that choice, although it definitely opposes the choice for following the law of love. |
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Post by Champs Elysees on Feb 28, 2008 13:49:41 GMT -5
Some of the missing books are books taht would have been in the New Testament.
I believe in following the rules as outlined in what we have, but I'm not going to damn someone to hell because they don't.
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Post by water on Feb 28, 2008 14:29:18 GMT -5
God will write his commandments on your Heart and you will know not to kill yourself.....some people are just saved in their head and their hearts have not been circumcised yet keep praying for them prayer changes thangs in Jesus name
I believe that once you are circumcised in the Heart its a rap. and the only clause out of salvation after this is found in Hebrews 6
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
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Post by Search1906 on Feb 28, 2008 14:34:04 GMT -5
I gotcha H2O Just wanted to know where you stood. ;D
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Post by denounced on Mar 6, 2008 6:03:38 GMT -5
Water, I believe II Peter 2:18-22 has something to say as well, but it is best to read the whole chapter for context, even though this says enough.
18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
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Post by water on Mar 6, 2008 7:57:08 GMT -5
Matthews 7 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I believe this verse is in Harmony with both verses in that a man may confess with his mouth and play the church game and at the same time not believe in his heart . The Word of God is Great Matthews Hebrews and 2 Peter flowing like water 
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