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Post by Champs Elysees on Feb 21, 2008 11:30:05 GMT -5
^^ Nupe, you should read Freakanomics.
If the economy which affects rich and poor people (albeit in different ways) does not affect you, how does gay marriage affect you? How does someone having an abortion affect you?
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Post by Julie Art on Feb 21, 2008 11:36:37 GMT -5
Wow. Great point LadyL.
*sitting and waiting for a response*
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Post by Cambist on Feb 21, 2008 11:37:52 GMT -5
It's more than gas for your car Nupe.
Gas Prices affect many things around you. Farmers use lots of gas to power their machines. Truckers and Barge operators use gas to transport food and products across the country. Airlines use gas to fuel their planes. Natural gas and heating oil are used to heat homes.
When the price of gas goes up, any industry where gas is a cost will eventually pass that cost on to the consumer - you.
So... you will pay more for airfare. You will pay more for bread because the cost to harvest it is greater. You will also pay more for goods that require transport from manufacturers to distributers to retail...added cost on all levels.
Now we have a huge ethanol craze. While this could help change the mindset of how we think about energy, it comes with a cost. In order to produce ethanol we needed a source of sugar. This came from corn. Our government, in it's race for energy effeciency, subsidized corn so that it would be profitable for farmers to grow. Well, it worked. Maybe too well.
Farmers started growing the shit out of corn...while at the same time they stopped growing important crops like wheat and soybeans. Also they started growing a kind of corn more condusive to the production of ethanol. How does this affect you? Glad you asked...
When farmers stopped growing wheat the cost of what was growing skyrocketed! So every product made with wheat also went up. Also, because farmers are growing corn for ethanol production, there is little available for livestock feed. So chicken prices go up...along with milk, beef, eggs, AND EVERYTHING MADE WITH THEM!
I'll stop there and wait for the Ask An Expert section to come online. I'm not an expert but it's what I do every day.
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Post by Cambist on Feb 21, 2008 11:38:59 GMT -5
Gay marriage? Gross but doesn't affect me any. See the contrast?
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Post by Nupey on Feb 21, 2008 11:59:59 GMT -5
^^ Nupe, you should read Freakanomics.
If the economy which affects rich and poor people (albeit in different ways) does not affect you, how does gay marriage affect you? How does someone having an abortion affect you?
Thats naive Lady. Just because it doesnt affect you directly (on the surface) doesnt mean you have to tolerate it. I have the right, just like everyone else does to vote who they feel will serve THEIR needs.. |
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Post by QUIET As Kept on Feb 21, 2008 12:06:51 GMT -5
says the man who thinks the economy doesn't affect him... |
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Post by Nupey on Feb 21, 2008 12:11:20 GMT -5
says the man who thinks the economy doesn't affect him...
Interesting. You need glasses dont you?
I never said the economy DOESNT affect me, I said it ISN'T affecting me at the moment. The recession we are going through isn't making a difference on my Buying power. I'm still able to shop friviously and pay my bills. I'm not concerened with it. I am concerned seeing 2 men walking down the street kissing. Rather its a law or not, that is what's important to me. |
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Post by QUIET As Kept on Feb 21, 2008 12:19:05 GMT -5
If you want to argue semantics, what you and I said are essentially the same thing in this case. At the end of the day, regardless of whether you're able to spend frivolously and pay your bills, the state of the economy is/does still affect you, in the form of higher mortgage rates for your new loft, higher energy prices, higher consumer goods prices, etc. And if you take 2 seconds to think ahead, depending on how long it lasts, there is the possibility that it can impact your ability to earn money. says the man who thinks the economy doesn't affect him...
Interesting. You need glasses dont you?
I never said the economy DOESNT affect me, I said it ISN'T affecting me at the moment. The recession we are going through isn't making a difference on my Buying power. I'm still able to shop friviously and pay my bills. I'm not concerened with it. I am concerned seeing 2 men walking down the street kissing. Rather its a law or not, that is what's important to me. |
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Post by Nupey on Feb 21, 2008 12:30:12 GMT -5
If you want to argue semantics, what you and I said are essentially the same thing in this case. At the end of the day, regardless of whether you're able to spend frivolously and pay your bills, the state of the economy is/does still affect you, in the form of higher mortgage rates for your new loft, higher energy prices, higher consumer goods prices, etc. And if you take 2 seconds to think ahead, depending on how long it lasts, there is the possibility that it can impact your ability to earn money.
Interesting. You need glasses dont you?
I never said the economy DOESNT affect me, I said it ISN'T affecting me at the moment. The recession we are going through isn't making a difference on my Buying power. I'm still able to shop friviously and pay my bills. I'm not concerened with it. I am concerned seeing 2 men walking down the street kissing. Rather its a law or not, that is what's important to me. |
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Post by QUIET As Kept on Feb 21, 2008 12:33:19 GMT -5
Defensive, aren't we?? I said absolutely nothing about you voting for Bush. I commented on your statement that the economy isn't affecting you.
But since you bring it up...yeah I think you and everybody else who voted for him made bad decisions.
...just one brown girl's opinion
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Post by coldfront06 on Feb 21, 2008 12:34:21 GMT -5
Elections are often won on social issues. If you were a segregationist in the South during the 50s and 60s, you had a great chance at being elected no matter what your economic policies were. Most voters don't even understand talk of recessions, interest rates, etc. But they do have an opinion on whether or not people of the same sex should be allowed to marry.
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Post by DamieQue™ on Feb 21, 2008 12:36:32 GMT -5
I would call all 150 million voters who selected Bush idiots as well. Republicans had the Presidency, the Senate, and the Congress and was there any Amendment to the Constitution defining it as between a man and a woman?
No. He used bait for votes, continued his enterprise of hegemony in Iraq, paid back all his campaign contributors at our expense...
...and no one gained (or lost) ANY political ground on the issue of gay marriage.
And I would disagree strongly with the argument that "it doesn't affect me so I shouldn't be worried about it". If you were white in the 1960's Jim Crow laws and segregation didn't affect you - that doesn't mean you don't have a moral compass and have some sort of disposition on an issue. "It Doesn't Affect Me" is a false argument IMO. If we are all connected by 6 degrees of seperation, EVERYTHING will affect us eventually. I didn't fight in Iraq, but the decision to go affects me directly, and indirectly.
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Post by Nupey on Feb 21, 2008 12:39:45 GMT -5
Defensive, aren't we?? I said absolutely nothing about you voting for Bush. I commented on your statement that the economy isn't affecting you. But since you bring it up...yeah I think you and everybody else who voted for him made bad decisions. ...just one brown girl's opinion
How did I make a bad decision?
Am I in Iraq? No
Am I running out of Gas? No
Am I broke? No
Has america Been Blown off the Map? No
Is there Gay Marriage? No
So what decision did I make that was bad? Please explain |
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Post by Nupey on Feb 21, 2008 12:41:33 GMT -5
I would call all 150 million voters who selected Bush idiots as well. Republicans had the Presidency, the Senate, and the Congress and was there any Amendment to the Constitution defining it as between a man and a woman?
No. He used bait for votes, continued his enterprise of hegemony in Iraq, paid back all his campaign contributors at our expense...
...and no one gained (or lost) ANY political ground on the issue of gay marriage.
And I would disagree strongly with the argument that "it doesn't affect me so I shouldn't be worried about it". If you were white in the 1960's Jim Crow laws and segregation didn't affect you - that doesn't mean you don't have a moral compass and have some sort of disposition on an issue. "It Doesn't Affect Me" is a false argument IMO. If we are all connected by 6 degrees of seperation, EVERYTHING will affect us eventually. I didn't fight in Iraq, but the decision to go affects me directly, and indirectly. Exactly, So YOUR SAYING that just because gay marriage doesnt affect me directly I still have social conseince on the issue. |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Feb 21, 2008 12:47:44 GMT -5
To reiterate... I think votes cast for Bush on the moral ground of stopping gay marriage were wasted because he didn't stop gay marriage and his regime proved itself to be ANYTHING but moral.
Secondly - I believe it is a false argument to say if it doesn't affect me I shouldn't care in part because - eventually everything effects you. Some of the people who fought in Iraq weren't even around when Vietnam was fought but I can promise you the way that they prosecuted this war was influenced by Vietnam. EVERYTHING is interconnected.
I personally am not affected by what 2 (or 3 people) do in their bedroom. I AM affected by legislation and there is NO good argument that I have ever seen that says I should be indifferent if there is not a direct impact to myself.
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Post by Nupey on Feb 21, 2008 12:48:41 GMT -5
I saw that Blue Damie...lol
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Post by QUIET As Kept on Feb 21, 2008 12:52:45 GMT -5
well, I was trying to stop short of calling you and 150 million other Americans idiots, 'cause I try not to call folx names. But you all elected a man who had proven himself to be deceitful, ignorant, and who made it quite clear up front that his objectives were to basically do what he has done. You may not be in Iraq, but several young black men who could have been part of our future had their lives cut short because they were. And those who weren't killed in a lot of cases suffer from several psychological issues. You may not be broke or running out of gas, but there's somebody somewhere trying to feed their family...by any means necessary...you should hope you don't end up on the receiving end of their efforts. America hasn't been blown off the map, but we definitely aren't very well liked right now. Besides...we don't need other nations to destroy us when we have an administration that is so corrupt, its causing this nation to implode on itself. Gay marriage - it IS legal in at least one state in the US Whether you realize it or not, everything that happens affects you either directly or indirectly. And just because you aren't feeling the effects right now, don't think that it can't impact you in the future. Defensive, aren't we?? I said absolutely nothing about you voting for Bush. I commented on your statement that the economy isn't affecting you. But since you bring it up...yeah I think you and everybody else who voted for him made bad decisions. ...just one brown girl's opinion
How did I make a bad decision?
Am I in Iraq? No
Am I running out of Gas? No
Am I broke? No
Has america Been Blown off the Map? No
Is there Gay Marriage? No
So what decision did I make that was bad? Please explain |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Feb 21, 2008 13:01:26 GMT -5
I saw that Blue Damie...lol
I'on know what you're talking about. *Whistles*
;D |
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Post by Lighthouse on Feb 21, 2008 13:14:21 GMT -5
Actually the Economy isn't really affecting me at all. Sure gas prices are higher, but other than that, I'm chilling. I feel those are the issues (Gay marriage) that I'm MOST concerned with. If I'm fine financially then I'm not worried about YOUR "economic" issues, I'm more interested in other things. You never hear Bill Gates crying about the Economy. You wont hear me crying about it as well. Who knew that you would out do yourself?!?!? Phenomenal. It's this sort of jackassery that is the reason Bush is currently in office. Riddle me this.... Why do you have an issue w/ homosexuality and gay marriage? Is it because it's wrong? Then you should also have an issue w/ yourself and your girl who I'm sure thanked you for the dinner w/ a bit of premarital sex. It's amazing to me how we decide which things we're going to have a problem with and which ones we won't. Gay marriage doesn't affect me. Unfortunately I am sometimes too liberal in my opinions and this is definitely one. But, if you are going to take issue w/ gay marriage, why stop there? Why not try to strong arm the many insurance companies that do already recognize "partnerships" and allow one partner to be covered under the other's insurance plan. That's an issue for me. Why you ask? Because when I graduated from college I was out here praying that I didn't get a cold, flu, West Nile or anything that may require me to go to the doctor b/c I had no insurance coverage. I was salty that had I found some friend to lie and say I was her life partner I'd be covered. It's asinine in my opinion. Additionally, if you're okay w/ being "fine financially" then you are and I repeat AN IDIOT. Sure there are some who are faring well during this current economic climate but if you look at the US in totality you will see that many more are struggling. My stomach turns every time I have to fill up my tank. This morning's 3.169 per gallon is still looming heavy on my mind. But hey, you're ok w/ things as long as it's only gas prices that are high. Well think about this, what happens when next year you have to pay back the rebate that you will get this year? Or better still, when taxes are increased to cover the added burden of more families on AFDC b/c they are not "fine financially" in this particular economy? We have to think about these things on more of a national/macro level and not only as it affects our individual person today! |
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Post by Julie Art on Feb 21, 2008 14:02:17 GMT -5
*holds cup in agreeance with Damie, Quiet, and Light.*
Light, I'm glad you are back.
What most folks don't do, is way the pros and cons of issues on a long term scale, and that is where the problem often lies. We can't think about the future cause we too busy thinkging about right now.
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Post by No Screen Name on Feb 21, 2008 15:42:27 GMT -5
Chile, you all would have better luck explaining to my Pomeranian how to go apply for a driver's license.
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Post by Lighthouse on Feb 21, 2008 16:38:50 GMT -5
Hooray!!! Z said "Chile"!!!
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Post by No Screen Name on Feb 21, 2008 16:46:35 GMT -5
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Post by water on Feb 23, 2008 14:16:39 GMT -5
the darkhorse is huckabee i hope he is not kerry and bush's frat brother.
presidents dont run it and if they did Lincoln & JFK would have not been shot.
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