One big problem with education as I see it...

[No Screen Name]

...everybody is NOT going to college. It seems like ALL of the education is geared towards college prep these days. Everyone's not going, and everyone SHOULDN'T.

However, when my plumber rolls to the house, he sometimes gets $30 for 10 mins. of work jiggling a little bolt. Sometimes he gets $150 for something like putting in a dishwasher. And when all the pipes in my house had to be ripped out and replaced, he got $1000.

Why aren't kids being taught trades? There should be some good extensive education in schools on trades, and good solid business skills (book keeping, payroll, how to hire people, starting your own business, etc.)

plumbing, auto mechanics, upholstery (if I had time, *I* would take upholstery myself), sheetrock, painting, construction, landscaping, wall paper hanging...all of those are good fields to be in, and the money-making potential is there.

[Cambist]

There is a quick answer and a long answer. I will try to be brief.

I share this sentiment. Our public education system disregarded all vocational education for college prep somewhere in the mid to late 80's. Because not all kids are headed to college, you have higher drop out rates..why?

Well, if you are being told that high school is preperation for college but you aren't planning on going to college then what good is high school. This is the thinking of many high school students so they drop out.

Should we have vocation education in public schools? Of course. The problem with this is that many kids will get funneled into the vocation education program and out of the college prep because they may not be doing as well. It doesn't mean that they aren't going to college but you would see a lot of minority kids pushed out of college prep.

From what I understand, all new public school buildings built in the state of California should have facilities for vocation education. LIke you said, Z...it's not all about wood and auto shop. Computer techs, programmers, network analysts, Construction skills, small engine repair, aviation mechanics, etc...none of this requires a 4 year degree. Often these skills can be acquired during a 2 year high school program.

NOTE TO Z: This is something i'm very passionate about and you phrased it just as I would have. This raised your sex appeal about 6 points.

[No Screen Name]

I'd say they need to pair this vocational education with EXTENSIVE business skills. My plumber that I mentioned is exellent. But he has told me about situations he's been in where he was taken advantage of. Another person I know (a painter) did nearly $10,000 worth of work on a mansion, thinking that the person would pay big bucks. He didn't take any money up front, and paid for materials out of pocket. There was no contract or agreement in writing, and he was never paid.

Both of them could use some business training, and to learn how to put a mechanic's lien on somebody's house. Those are the types of skills that need to be taught. This way, you're preparing kids to be possible entrepreneurs, not just to work from somebody else.

The problem with this is that many kids will get funneled into the vocation education program and out of the college prep because they may not be doing as well. It doesn't mean that they aren't going to college but you would see a lot of minority kids pushed out of college prep.

I don't know what the solution to this is. But it is already happening now--most AP and advanced classes contain a handful of minority students.

NOTE TO Z: This is something i'm very passionate about and you phrased it just as I would have. This raised your sex appeal about 6 points.

Well thanks!

[ace64hearts]

Well Im not a big fan of public school system primarily because of the lack of dedicated teachers and them just focused on their union and benefits and not the students. I think it starts with these teachers looking for pay checks and not having PASSION for the kids they teach.

BUT what I WILL say is that Philadelphia Public School system (and the 36 public schools) we have in the city, 11 of them are neighborhood high schools while the other are geared towards specific programs or trades. You have about 3 college prep high schools, about 2 performing arts schools, and the rest of them are trade schools focused on (farming, vet medicine, ROTC, cosmetics, home economics, engineeering) matter of fact, I had applied to go to a school that was a school for engineering and science.

But working with a lot of youth, they dont go to college because parents simply cant afford it. And if the parents dont attend school, they dont see it being a priority that their children NEED to be in college of some sort....some sort of educational advancement passed the 12th grade.

Its soo expensive to even attend the STATE schools in Pennsylvania (which are about $13,000) a year, and the state promises grant money....that these kids ARE NOT getting. If you dont get at least a 1000 + on SATs you can kiss going away to school with some sort of financial aid, unless its a loan. But if you dont value education, you wont see the value in making an investment for yyour future. But these kids aent doing good on their SATs because of the lack of preparation in HIGH SCHOOLS

z said:

...everybody is NOT going to college. It seems like ALL of the education is geared towards college prep these days. Everyone's not going, and everyone SHOULDN'T.

However, when my plumber rolls to the house, he sometimes gets $30 for 10 mins. of work jiggling a little bolt. Sometimes he gets $150 for something like putting in a dishwasher. And when all the pipes in my house had to be ripped out and replaced, he got $1000.

Why aren't kids being taught trades? There should be some good extensive education in schools on trades, and good solid business skills (book keeping, payroll, how to hire people, starting your own business, etc.)

plumbing, auto mechanics, upholstery (if I had time, *I* would take upholstery myself), sheetrock, painting, construction, landscaping, wall paper hanging...all of those are good fields to be in, and the money-making potential is there.

[Champs Elysees]

Down here in N. FL, the only speciality schools are the private schools that are run by churches of some sort. If we'd had prep schools, I might have gone to one.

People complain about the teachers, but teaching in the public school system (down here, at least) is a difficult thankless job. Teachers should get PAID when they have to deal with kids who come from horrible homes and don't have any home training whatsoever.

I'm not having any kids until I know that I can afford to send them to private school. Period.

[coldfront06]

My high school is not regarded as a "good" school, but one thing I liked is that we had a great vocational education program. We even have a seperate building dedicated to it. They teach auto body repair, welding, carpentry, etc.

[No Screen Name]

If I knew what I know now, I would have gotten up on some vocational education myself. I don't care if I WAS the only female in the class, and if people laughed.

My dream is to own rental property. If I could have some basic knowledge of repairs and carpentry...that would be FIERCE! I could save a lot of money when it came time to fix up houses to rent.

[ace64hearts]

Well I think thats either one of two things need to happen.

#1 There needs to be more social workers and TSS workers in the classrooms with the "problem" children or children who need extra attention. Its difficult in public schools when u have class sizes of 25-30 and you have that ONE student or (maybe 2) who demand more attn than others, u cant neglect the rest of the 28 something kids in the class to give that individual 1-1 attn.

#2 There needs to be more psychology and social work classes being taught in undergraduate education curriculum

ladyl said:

Down here in N. FL, the only speciality schools are the private schools that are run by churches of some sort. If we'd had prep schools, I might have gone to one.

People complain about the teachers, but teaching in the public school system (down here, at least) is a difficult thankless job. Teachers should get PAID when they have to deal with kids who come from horrible homes and don't have any home training whatsoever.

I'm not having any kids until I know that I can afford to send them to private school. Period.

[QUIET As Kept]

Great point! And what about the kids who do know how to act, but everyday they go home to craziness, or don't know when they'll be able to eat again, or whatever other environmental factors there are.

I remember when my mom was teaching, one year she was talking to one of her students (a 4th grader I believe) and found out that her family didn't have enough food for them to have a Thanksgiving meal (it was the day before). My mom went home, pulled together enough to feed a small army from the freezer (why she even had that much stored in the house anyway is a whole 'nother story), and took it to her student's home so that her family could eat.

When you have folks who are willing to go above and beyond like that, you need to provide them with the tools and resources to facilitate their job (ie smaller class sizes, teachers aids, etc) AND to make teaching worthwhile for them (salary). If you don't, the good ones will get more and more discouraged and eventually stop teaching.

ladyl said:

People complain about the teachers, but teaching in the public school system (down here, at least) is a difficult thankless job. Teachers should get PAID when they have to deal with kids who come from horrible homes and don't have any home training whatsoever.

[Sista08]

We have several vocational and trade programs at my High School. Its working out well.

[water]

Hampton Normal and Agricultural Institute

The students were part of building all the old campus structures.

The majors were dry cleaning , plumbing , farming and electricity

in 1984 my freshmen year they began to phase out all real construction classes and replaced them with management and accounting classes.


They need to bring the real production majors back. but you know i guess its easier and cheaper to have a gillion business management majors whatever that is ???Now ....a Hotel management degree ...now that is cool, but a plain ole BA in Business silly waste of time and energy.

[Cambist]

I agree water. There is EXTREME value in a Construction Management or Industrial Science degree...

But I also would like to see high schools teaching courses like Regulatory Science, Basic Construction Management (for mid level formen)

[water]

agreed