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Post by Nupey on Feb 6, 2008 17:26:09 GMT -5
Alright, so I watch a lot of Discovery, History and Animal Planet channels...and I find it amazing that animals such as Megaladon and T-Rex existed WAAAAYYYYY Before we did, or so it may seem.
Does the bible actually say WHEN we were put on the earth? How could primitive man have existed with Sharks the size of blue whales swimming the oceans?
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Post by frozenmenace on Feb 6, 2008 20:44:44 GMT -5
A day to God is as a 1000 years to us. While the Bible says that Creation was 6 days (He rested on the 7th), those 7 days could actually be equal to 10,000 years for us. The Bible doesn't give an exact date, if that's what you are looking for.
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Post by steelsword on Feb 7, 2008 15:03:40 GMT -5
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Feb 7, 2008 23:35:01 GMT -5
Folks are preecha pork choppin and screwing again I see
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Post by osiris on Feb 8, 2008 3:11:24 GMT -5
Just like ol' times....
O..
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Post by Cambist on Feb 8, 2008 15:07:49 GMT -5
My opinion.....
The bible was written at a time and by a people who didn't have extensive knowledge of science. At least not what we have today.
These stories were written so as to teach a lesson or convey a message. Since I don't believe in the Adam and Eve creation story, it's hard for me to discuss this anyway.
I do believe in God. I believe in intelligent design. I just don't believe it was all done in as simple a progression as is written in the bible.
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Post by Nupey on Feb 8, 2008 15:37:19 GMT -5
My opinion..... The bible was written at a time and by a people who didn't have extensive knowledge of science. At least not what we have today. These stories were written so as to teach a lesson or convey a message. Since I don't believe in the Adam and Eve creation story, it's hard for me to discuss this anyway. I do believe in God. I believe in intelligent design. I just don't believe it was all done in as simple a progression as is written in the bible. Well what DO you believe in then Cam? What other manuscript do you have? Certainly not the discovery channel. |
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Post by Cambist on Feb 8, 2008 15:49:30 GMT -5
I believe that the earth evolved the way scientists say it did. That doesn't mean God doesn't exist or had nothing to do with the creation of the universe. The two are not mutually exclusive.
I don't need a religious text to back up my beliefs. We are blessed (and cursed) with intellect which separates us from other living things on earth. That intellect allows us to evolve and discover truths for ourselves.
No need to interpret a document in a way that stifles intellectual growth.
Context means as much (if not more) as content.
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Post by Nupey on Feb 8, 2008 15:58:41 GMT -5
By COULDN'T God just have said, let there be "earth" and then POOF, it happened? Is he NOT all powerfull?
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Post by osiris on Feb 8, 2008 16:07:01 GMT -5
To be "all powerfull" means that you can do anything and everything (whether one chooses to or not) correct?
O...
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Post by Nupey on Feb 8, 2008 16:08:14 GMT -5
By man's definition I would agree Osiris.
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Post by osiris on Feb 8, 2008 16:13:13 GMT -5
So ... it is ________ for "G-d" to sin.
A. Possible
or
B. Impossible
O...
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Post by Nupey on Feb 8, 2008 16:24:08 GMT -5
It is possible for him to do ANYTHING. But its NOT possible for him to sin, because it goes against his very Nature.
God is ABSOLUTE Good.
Satan is ABSOLUTE Evil.
God cannot Lie
Satan cannot tell the truth.
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Post by osiris on Feb 8, 2008 16:38:37 GMT -5
It is possible for him to do ANYTHING. But its NOT possible for him to sin, because it goes against his very Nature. God is ABSOLUTE Good. Satan is ABSOLUTE Evil. God cannot Lie Satan cannot tell the truth. So, He can do anything, but it's not possible to sin. ....  ... that's a contradiction. "God cannot lie." .....  .... but you agreed to the statement of: " To be 'all powerfull' means that you can do anything and everything (whether one chooses to or not)..." Are you stating that He couldn't lie even if He wanted too? If... everything originated with "G-d" ... and he is the beginning of All ... then who created "evil?" If you agree that He didn't create "evil" ... then He wouldn't be the creator of All... correct or not? What say ye?  O... |
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Post by Nupey on Feb 8, 2008 16:42:28 GMT -5
Osiris, I will not pretend to know the answers to these questions. I doubt if even YOU know the answers, all I can say is I believe what is in the Bible, I know there are contradictions, but the world is FULL of contradictions, even MASONRY...
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Post by osiris on Feb 8, 2008 16:48:24 GMT -5
How did Masonry come into play? This has nothing to do with Freemasonry. In regards to you stating: "I doubt if even YOU know the answers...," all I will say is this:
As with all genuine Truths there is no beginning, for Truth is a constant. The only thing that affects its grace is the balance of an individuals understanding of that Truth.
O...
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Post by Nupey on Feb 8, 2008 16:50:31 GMT -5
How did Masonry come into play? This has nothing to do with Freemasonry. In regards to you stating: "I doubt if even YOU know the answers...," all I will say is this: As with all genuine Truths there is no beginning, for Truth is a constant. The only thing that affects its grace is the balance of an individuals understanding of that Truth. O... |
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Post by osiris on Feb 8, 2008 17:42:45 GMT -5
1. Who stated that I believed in the "Big Bang" theory? 2. Sound doesn't exist in a vacuum (space); so there wouldn't have been any sound... more rather ... a "flash" ... which could provide support of the argument: "And G-d said, let there be light..." (Actually, I like to see that science and "religion" have the capability of complimenting one another at times.) 3. You have " 2ooo year old texts" as documented evidence? ...  ... I'm not going to go through an extensive list, but off the top of the mind, the Pyramid texts (which are religious) are 4,600 - 5,100 years old. That would predate your "documented evidence" by 2,600 - 3,100 years. But wait, I already know what you're going to say: " Hey Osiris, it's not like YOU'RE reading the pyramid texts in your house." Frankly, that is true. However comma I do read the texts of Hinduism which are 3,500 years old... senior to the Torah by a small 500 years. But to me, it's what you do with the sacred text(s) that matters; regardless of its antiquity. O... P.S. Where did Moses really get those 10 Commandments Nupey? (Hint:) [Moses] was a Prince under the feather of this creed...
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Post by Nupey on Feb 8, 2008 18:12:11 GMT -5
Listen man...Unless you can "show" me the pyramid text, and you got to show me a picture of the dude that wrote it, AND you got to get VooDou to teleport you to heaven and ask God if its cool..then I'll believe it...
Until then...I'm gonna have to role with the Bible homey...lol
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Post by osiris on Feb 8, 2008 18:26:10 GMT -5
I cannot "show" you anything that you do not want to see. In the infamous words of Michael Baisden:
"It is what it is."
O...
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Post by DamieQue™ on Feb 11, 2008 7:50:32 GMT -5
It is possible for him to do ANYTHING. But its NOT possible for him to sin, because it goes against his very Nature. God is ABSOLUTE Good. Satan is ABSOLUTE Evil. God cannot Lie Satan cannot tell the truth. So, He can do anything, but it's not possible to sin. .... ... that's a contradiction. "God cannot lie." ..... .... but you agreed to the statement of: " To be 'all powerfull' means that you can do anything and everything (whether one chooses to or not)..." Are you stating that He couldn't lie even if He wanted too? If... everything originated with "G-d" ... and he is the beginning of All ... then who created "evil?" If you agree that He didn't create "evil" ... then He wouldn't be the creator of All... correct or not? What say ye? O...
I say - when it comes to God - that it does not surprise me that we often are limited to semantics and word play to question His nature. Ironically when we do this, we do not illustrate God's limitations - but rather our own.
For example, I believe once on the old OO the question was brought up how God could be 3 different things simultaneously. From a semantic perspective that seems impossible does it not? But then I think, either Frozen or someone else pointed out, that a man could be a father, son, and brother all at the same time. And if we could observe this on a human plane how difficult would it be for God to demonstrate it by manifesting in 3 parts?
In my travels and studies, what I (emphasis on I) have learned is that no shortcoming in our language or understanding or logic is a limit for God. He can do what we can't even speak, understand, or explain. That's my experience in my life. I do not intend to speak on behalf of everyone else's lives.
Could not agree more. I am a Truth Seeker. Why is all this significant? Why did I block quote Osiris's words above? Well you see, I contend that Truth is God.
And if you understand why I say it that way (Truth is God as opposed to God is Truth) then we can talk more. If not, just take it as one black man's opinion and do your thing.
Some Quotes from Ghandi:
Try reading all of these again, except everywhere there is the word Truth say God[/size][/color] |
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Post by Cambist on Feb 11, 2008 8:33:22 GMT -5
Sin and Evil....
I can agree with this. It strips away the anthropomorphic quantities, qualities and limitations we attribute to that which we call God.
My question in all of this (and if this question warrants a new thread, please let me know) is...
If Truth is God and God is eternal then where does evil fit? Has evil always been here (and therefor also eternal)? Was evil created? If so, who created it?
My thought is that the POSSIBILITY of evil has always existed.
I could be wrong (and often am) but I love the dialogue.
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Post by osiris on Feb 11, 2008 11:46:54 GMT -5
I respect and understand what you're stating Damie. I, however, do not see it as a play on words ... either one can or cannot. How does semantics come into play with the ability to do something or the inability to commit an act? Evil, if one believes that it exits ... where did it come from?
Semantics ... I kind of like that argument; maybe ... "faith," as we know it, is nothing more than semantics at play.
O....
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Post by steelsword on Feb 11, 2008 11:50:58 GMT -5
I used to think God created Evil ,I would say he created Satan , and Satan is Evil
is he Not. But after alot of reading and study , I came to realize certain aspects of intelligent design. Science has give that there is an equal and opposite reaction.
The Almighty God "Created" . I say this in regards to the thought that some say why
such a process of Creating . why not just make the world and poof it's here. That when I look at people and see the nature of God in certain aspects. We ourselves enjoy
creating , taking our time , enjoying the process.
God loves his creation . And his plan is for his creation to give back to him.
It is in this aspect that God didn't create Evil as a core of our nature , because he wanted us to Love him back, Yet he created the Equal and Opposite re-action-
that we are able to claim through free-agency. We choose to be Evil, no where are we commanded to be Evil , we are commanded to Love .
Satan, obviously had it made from what I've read , but wanted more , to be God himself. Jealously produced that opposite reaction . It was there , God did not say Satan you must use this Evil against me. It was his Choice.
Evil is a choice , Not the Nature of God.
Steel-Jude 3
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Post by Cambist on Feb 11, 2008 12:09:32 GMT -5
So...evil is the degree to which one deviates from Truth (God) shouts out to Damie..
If this is the case then God didn't necessarily CREATE evil but evil exists as a possibility WITHIN Gods design?
My problem is this....why does evil have to necessarily be imperfect? If God is perfect and infallible then could it be that the existance of sin and evil is part of the perfection...part of the balance?
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Post by osiris on Feb 11, 2008 12:14:04 GMT -5
 Nice thought... O.. |
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Post by osiris on Feb 11, 2008 12:18:30 GMT -5
Okay ... well let me ask this ... so follow me...
If one believes in "Adam" and "Eve" ... according to legend ... why were they excommunicated from the Garden?
And if it was because of "sin" or "Original Sin," however one would like to label it ... is it not true that due to their uncleanliness ... that they were not allowed to ever access this Garden?
If I'm wrong regarding this understanding ... please ... enlighten me.
O...
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Post by DamieQue™ on Feb 11, 2008 12:26:49 GMT -5
I respect and understand what you're stating Damie. I, however, do not see it as a play on words ... either one can or cannot. How does semantics come into play with the ability to do something or the inability to commit an act? Evil, if one believes that it exits ... where did it come from?
Semantics ... I kind of like that argument; maybe ... "faith," as we know it, is nothing more than semantics at play. O....
Faith is belief before the empirical proof if you're Christian.
In either event proof is absent at the time. That's my take on faith. Regarding the bolded - the semantics have something to do with it IMO - because it is our HUMAN construct. It's our way of understanding. Put differently - the inability I'm referring to is not on God, the inability is on us understanding how He can do anything.
You ask can He sin, and I ask would He sin? Are we really examining His omnipotence (if we can even do such a thing) by asking if He can sin when everything that we seem to know about Him suggests that He doesn't sin? |
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Post by DamieQue™ on Feb 11, 2008 12:30:12 GMT -5
Okay ... well let me ask this ... so follow me... If one believes in "Adam" and "Eve" ... according to legend ... why were they excommunicated from the Garden? And if it was because of "sin" or "Original Sin," however one would like to label it ... is it not true that due to their uncleanliness ... that they were not allowed to ever access this Garden? If I'm wrong regarding this understanding ... please ... enlighten me. O...
1. Because they were disobedient
2. So that they could not take from the "Tree of Life"
I don't recall uncleanliness being a part of it, but give me a Scriptual reference and I'll take a look at it. |
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Post by Ms. RedamnDickulous on Feb 11, 2008 12:41:38 GMT -5
You are right Damie. Genesis 3:22-24
22 Then the LORD God said, "The people have become as we are, knowing everything, both good and evil. What if they eat the fruit of the tree of life? Then they will live forever!"
23 So the LORD God banished Adam and his wife from the Garden of Eden, and he sent Adam out to cultivate the ground from which he had been made.
24 After banishing them from the garden, the LORD God stationed mighty angelic beings to the east of Eden. And a flaming sword flashed back and forth, guarding the way to the tree of life.
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