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Post by LogAKAlly <3'n Keef on Jun 3, 2010 1:08:49 GMT -5
I'm not sure I agree with that. That's kinda like saying children will never do anything wrong if the parent is doing their job correctly. Even the best parents in the world might have kids that occasionally do things they are unaware of. Well said.
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Post by tremab on Jun 3, 2010 19:53:55 GMT -5
I think we're all just going to have to agree that I'm 100% correct and the rest of you are categorically wrong. ;D
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Post by denounced on Jun 4, 2010 7:30:26 GMT -5
Anyone who had a real process after 1990 is not legit either. They broke the golden rule. But ONLY because they did not get caught, they were ABLE to become members. So the only thing that really separates them from renegades is the $$$$$. Many can knock renegeades all they want, but if they're not paper, they are not truly legit either. They came through illegitmately as well. They should summarily kicked out as well.
The ones who make renegades are the real renegades.
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Post by Cambist on Jun 4, 2010 8:10:48 GMT -5
^^ he aint necessarily wrong.....
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Post by DamieQue™ on Jun 4, 2010 8:29:02 GMT -5
^^ he aint necessarily wrong..... About what part? The part where the real renegades are the ones who make renegades? There I'd agree. But only there.
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Post by Iceman on Jun 4, 2010 8:43:08 GMT -5
Anyone who had a real process after 1990 is not legit either. They broke the golden rule. But ONLY because they did not get caught, they were ABLE to become members. So the only thing that really separates them from renegades is the $$$$$. Many can knock renegeades all they want, but if they're not paper, they are not truly legit either. They came through illegitmately as well. They should summarily kicked out as well. The ones who make renegades are the real renegades. “The ones who make renegades are the real renegades.”Denounced, I can agree with that statement. But you mentioned that the only thing that separates renegades from those who had a post- 90 underground process is money?? While both sides may have went through a pledge process, the difference is that (in addition to the pledge process) the nationally recognized member has been duly initiated through the official ritual which is overseen by recognized officers in the Org. There is a difference. Let’s be clear. Pledging will teach you certain things, keep you in line with tradition and garner you respect among most members. But going through the official ritual is what MAKES you a member – It is the tie that binds us so to speak. Now depending on the members they encounter, perhaps the renegade will be accepted on a social level just as well as a recognized member. But the full fraternal experience of a contributing (and actual) member is one that they can’t have -unless they become official. But you really lost me with this statement: “Many can knock renegades all they want, but if they're not paper, they are not truly legit either. They came through illegitmately as well. They should summarily kicked out as well.”So regardless of a member being initiated and nationally recognized, anyone who is not paper (or who pledged underground Post 90) should be considered illegitimate and kicked out their Org? So what would Nationals do? Go back, conduct a survey of every member inducted over the last 20 years, and if said members confirmed pledging underground as well, their membership will be revoked…. retroactively? Gotcha. Well, let’s just say that a MASSIVE, MASSIVE amount of our membership (including several current officers) would be wiped out **snap** just like that. Not probable D.
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Post by Robelite on Jun 4, 2010 8:51:24 GMT -5
Anyone who had a real process after 1990 is not legit either. They broke the golden rule. But ONLY because they did not get caught, they were ABLE to become members. So the only thing that really separates them from renegades is the $$$$$. Many can knock renegeades all they want, but if they're not paper, they are not truly legit either. They came through illegitmately as well. They should summarily kicked out as well. The ones who make renegades are the real renegades. Wow! Y'all feel that? That was the earth, stopping suddenly, and turning backward on its axis! That's all it could have been because I acutally agree with denny! He made REAL SENSE in this post!! Miracles do indeed never cease!
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Post by Cambist on Jun 4, 2010 9:01:16 GMT -5
Anyone who had a real process after 1990 is not legit either. Since they did actually submit the necessary paperwork and go through the sanctioned process, I would have to disagree. They are legitimate despite the fact that they broke the rules during the illegal part of their process. They broke the golden rule. Many did break the Golden Rule but others did exactly HOW they were treated. Not right but real. But ONLY because they did not get caught, they were ABLE to become members. This is true. So the only thing that really separates them from renegades is the $$$$$. Well, the money, the legal paperwork, the qualifications, etc...but I see what you're saying. If a renegade was made exactly the same way as a chapter member....then this is absolutely true in a practical sense although legally, their is a difference. In any event, it's messed up! Many can knock renegeades all they want, but if they're not paper, they are not truly legit either. This is true. According to the accepted definition of "paper" then they definately are not paper. Officially, they aren't only "not truly legit"...they are NOT legit at all! [non-renegades] came through illegitmately as well. True but their illegimate or illegal process was ON TOP OF their legal process. So they are actually members despite the fact that they pissed on their constitutions, rules and by-laws when they chose to participate. They should summarily kicked out as well. That's a judgement call. If an investigation finds that you participated in an illegal pledge process, should you be kicked out? I guess it makes sense seeing as how many signed an agreement saying that you wouldn't do it and that the consequences would be expulsion. The ones who make renegades are the real renegades. True.
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Post by Vudu_Prince on Jun 4, 2010 9:30:18 GMT -5
True but their illegimate or illegal process was ON TOP OF their legal process. So they are actually members despite the fact that they pissed on their constitutions, rules and by-laws when they chose to participate. I have to disagree here. Last I checked Omega Psi Phi constitution and by laws were not changed to fit the MIP intake process. This whole MIP thing was orchestrated and spearheaded by Bro. Moses C Norman who in league with the other presidents of the 7 organizations drafted up the mandatory stipulations of the intake process per NPHC guidelines. We submitted because of not wanting to leave the NPHC. Basically the presidents backdoored the orgs. The sororities benefited but the fraternities didn't and have not done so. Just take the time to look at the number of pledgee's in the 80's vs the 90's. My chapter had 80 plus bruhs in the 80's and only 27 in the 90's. Big difference. Everytime abolishing pledging came on the floor for vote in Omega Psi Phi it failed everytime. So nobody pissed on anything other than this NPHC directive. My tidbit. Carry on
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Post by Cambist on Jun 4, 2010 10:00:23 GMT -5
I see and if that's the case then it's still an integrity issue on behalf of everyone who makes that pledge and then willfully violates it.
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Post by Robelite on Jun 4, 2010 13:10:16 GMT -5
The bottom line remains that IN ALPHA, there is ONE THING that makes you an Alpha.
An ass-beatin' for 6 or 7 months prior means nothing. If the ass-beatin' is all you got, without the initiation ritual, that and 10 cents will get you a dime! There are some jackasses who haven't figured that out yet in 3-4 years!
Po' them!
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Post by All Pledging Is Legal on Jun 4, 2010 13:12:06 GMT -5
True but their illegimate or illegal process was ON TOP OF their legal process. So they are actually members despite the fact that they pissed on their constitutions, rules and by-laws when they chose to participate. I have to disagree here. Last I checked Omega Psi Phi constitution and by laws were not changed to fit the MIP intake process. This whole MIP thing was orchestrated and spearheaded by Bro. Moses C Norman who in league with the other presidents of the 7 organizations drafted up the mandatory stipulations of the intake process per NPHC guidelines. We submitted because of not wanting to leave the NPHC. Basically the presidents backdoored the orgs. The sororities benefited but the fraternities didn't and have not done so. Just take the time to look at the number of pledgee's in the 80's vs the 90's. My chapter had 80 plus bruhs in the 80's and only 27 in the 90's. Big difference. Everytime abolishing pledging came on the floor for vote in Omega Psi Phi it failed everytime. So nobody pissed on anything other than this NPHC directive. My tidbit. Carry on 80 plus members to only 27 in a decade? That is a sad. But this isn't just in your chapter. I have seen it with all BGLOs at many different chapters. The MIP process has actually has crippled BGLOs. I still find it strange that chapters at PWIs were initiating lines of at least 8 people and having lines every year back in the day. Pledging was much harder back in the 70's and 80's but chapters always brought in enough members to remain active. This basically kills the notion that pledging was all bad. Nowadays, I see chapters at PWIs cross 2 or 3 members every 2 or 3 years. How can a chapter survive with so few initiates? I am not a fan of renegades. I think it is a waste of time to bring in guys just for the hell of it. The chapter doesn't benefit because these guys are not on the books. And why would a man get beat for months on end and not even get a frat card, a frat pin, & a certificate? MIP initiates get at least that much.
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Post by tremab on Jun 5, 2010 7:23:09 GMT -5
Another thing to keep in mind...
Some organizations still initiate on the chapter - not cluster - level.
Therefore all "renegades" from these organizations have been initiated through the respective ritual, there's just record of them outside of the chapter.
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Post by huey on Jun 5, 2010 19:25:54 GMT -5
Another thing to keep in mind... Some organizations still initiate on the chapter - not cluster - level. Therefore all "renegades" from these organizations have been initiated through the respective ritual, there's just record of them outside of the chapter. Hmmm, For those orgs who don't initiate thru cluster, do you have a serious renegade problem?
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Post by huey on Jun 11, 2010 22:15:53 GMT -5
I have to disagree here. Last I checked Omega Psi Phi constitution and by laws were not changed to fit the MIP intake process. This whole MIP thing was orchestrated and spearheaded by Bro. Moses C Norman who in league with the other presidents of the 7 organizations drafted up the mandatory stipulations of the intake process per NPHC guidelines. We submitted because of not wanting to leave the NPHC. Basically the presidents backdoored the orgs. The sororities benefited but the fraternities didn't and have not done so. Just take the time to look at the number of pledgee's in the 80's vs the 90's. My chapter had 80 plus bruhs in the 80's and only 27 in the 90's. Big difference. Everytime abolishing pledging came on the floor for vote in Omega Psi Phi it failed everytime. So nobody pissed on anything other than this NPHC directive. My tidbit. Carry on 80 plus members to only 27 in a decade? That is a sad. But this isn't just in your chapter. I have seen it with all BGLOs at many different chapters. The MIP process has actually has crippled BGLOs. I still find it strange that chapters at PWIs were initiating lines of at least 8 people and having lines every year back in the day. Pledging was much harder back in the 70's and 80's but chapters always brought in enough members to remain active. This basically kills the notion that pledging was all bad. Nowadays, I see chapters at PWIs cross 2 or 3 members every 2 or 3 years. How can a chapter survive with so few initiates? I am not a fan of renegades. I think it is a waste of time to bring in guys just for the hell of it. The chapter doesn't benefit because these guys are not on the books. And why would a man get beat for months on end and not even get a frat card, a frat pin, & a certificate? MIP initiates get at least that much. What u mean survive? All i know is chapters that have no more than 10 people on the yard. Sometimes just 5 or 6 and they function well and have successful events. I'm not use to chapters with 20 members on yard.
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Post by huey on Oct 3, 2010 22:29:39 GMT -5
Shouts to my Renegades. I love and hate you all.
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