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Post by DSTspr98 on Jul 14, 2008 11:58:43 GMT -5
^^^ and u posted the link why???
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 14, 2008 13:13:23 GMT -5
" and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
- John 8:32
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Post by frozenmenace on Jul 14, 2008 13:26:35 GMT -5
" and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." - John 8:32 But who says that what you posted is the truth? Of course YOU think it is the truth because you are the one who wrote it and posted it...but does that make it the TRUTH, or just your opinion of what you think is the Truth?? What say you? |
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 14, 2008 13:36:16 GMT -5
Truth is not an opinion...it is what it is. As a believer of biblical authority myself, it speaks for itself. In all my time spent discussing greeklife, I've yet to hear one person raise one biblical ground why ritualistically it is not against the Word.
<====Already knows I have an agree to disagree on the horizon.
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Post by frozenmenace on Jul 14, 2008 13:52:29 GMT -5
Truth is not an opinion...it is what it is. As a believer of biblical authority myself, it speaks for itself. In all my time spent discussing greeklife, I've yet to hear one person raise one biblical ground why ritualistically it is not against the Word. <====Already knows I have an agree to disagree on the horizon. We are definitely going to agree to disagree. For you to say that you possess the truth about an org's ritual means that you have studied that ritual and KNOW what each element of that ritual symbolizes to the members of said organization. Seeing as you are not a member of any of these organizations, you would not know what the elements of said ritual means to the members of that organization unless you have polled a significant number of the members of said organization to get a consensus of what the elements of that ritual means to the members. Without this information, you are using ASSUMPTION when you seek to validate your claims using scripture. As an actual member, I do not need to validate my organization's ritual biblically to you because I know what the elements of said ritual symbolize and I know that many of my fellow members are on the same page. |
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 14, 2008 14:27:31 GMT -5
your right about one thing...we will agree to disagree...lol.
Herein lies the circular reasoning. Paul was never a part of the pagan religions in the region in which he ministered yet he was able to distinguish between truth and falsity. If your offering (which I know your not), I'm not asking for an explanation of what esoteric meaning your rituals offer. On their face, they are sufficient to prove their incompatibility with scripture.
The alpha altar, shrine of delphi, temple of Omega, etc...have nothing to do with Christ, and we both know that.
You and many others on here have maintained that your orgs are not biblically based, because they are suitable for muslims, atheists, agnostics, jews, scientologists etc. They weren't set up to be "Christian" orgs, and that much is evident in the ritual. My contention (in part) is that in the creation of this bond, various biblical commands were ignored/misapplied.
The scripture says, "do not be bonded with unbelievers", fraternities/sororities do just what the bible said don't do. (We've been down this road before though)
Since your fraternity is both a bond, and made up of unbelievers, thats a pretty easy example in my estimation. You don't even have to get into the ritual to see this.
But, when I first wrote the paper, I might have second guessed my discernment, because your right, I never was a member, nor do I now claim, or have ever claimed to have in depth insight into the meaning of everything in the ritual. But after hundreds of people have denounced, obviously members have agreed with what I wrote. If it were baseless, it would've flopped on its face.
As always though Froze, much respect to you, you know it ain't nothing against you (or anybody else) personally.
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Post by B Strugg on Jul 14, 2008 14:52:05 GMT -5
Man....ALL yall are newbies... BStrugg, you ain't been on the board for more than 2 weeks and you talking about "you thought it was deaded a long time ago" LOL...when, like 1 1/2 weeks ago...lol.  Retla...your probably an alter or a super duper newbie, either way, you need to be delivered from that vulgarity. LMAO...I haven't been on the board for how long? 2 weeks? Really? Maybe if u go to page one and read my debate with denounced, and the responses, you will see why I said what I said. But sweety, I'm on every day, look at the time period between the last comment that I was debating on, and the resurrection of the thread..... I swear people don't know what they be talkin about! |
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 14, 2008 15:03:35 GMT -5
dag...Ima report you to your boss! almost 1000 posts already? Black people I tell ya |
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Post by Highly Favored on Jul 14, 2008 15:04:09 GMT -5
BeautifulStruggle,
I think he was saying that you have only been on the board 2 weeks total and that he only meant that as an exaggeration. In other words, in terms of membership length, you haven't been here that long, although you have posted a lot since you've been here.
I don't think he meant any harm. He was attempting humor in the portion of the post directed at you.
I hope all is well with you.
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Post by B Strugg on Jul 14, 2008 15:08:59 GMT -5
BeautifulStruggle, I think he was saying that you have only been on the board 2 weeks total and that he only meant that as an exaggeration. In other words, in terms of membership length, you haven't been here that long, although you have posted a lot since you've been here. I don't think he meant any harm. He was attempting humor in the portion of the post directed at you. I hope all is well with you. No need to take up for JayOFelony!! ;D It's all love here...Jus felt like gettin on him since he felt the need to type my name...lmao...... But if I misunderstood....my bad......  And JAY....I AM A STUDENT ON VACATION...lmao...So I have a lot of time on my hands...  |
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 14, 2008 15:11:34 GMT -5
suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure you are Bstrugg <====looking through the e-phone book for your boss  <====Starts dialing <====Has no problem snitching to "the man" |
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Post by B Strugg on Jul 14, 2008 15:13:02 GMT -5
LMAO!!! Now u know that would be triflin!!
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 14, 2008 15:16:21 GMT -5
LOL
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Post by Highly Favored on Jul 14, 2008 15:29:50 GMT -5
BeautifulStruggle, I think he was saying that you have only been on the board 2 weeks total and that he only meant that as an exaggeration. In other words, in terms of membership length, you haven't been here that long, although you have posted a lot since you've been here. I don't think he meant any harm. He was attempting humor in the portion of the post directed at you. I hope all is well with you. No need to take up for JayOFelony!! ;D It's all love here...Jus felt like gettin on him since he felt the need to type my name...lmao...... But if I misunderstood....my bad...... And JAY....I AM A STUDENT ON VACATION...lmao...So I have a lot of time on my hands... Okay. I'm just trying to keep the peace between two of my favorite posters.  |
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 14, 2008 15:39:55 GMT -5
 Thanks Highly Favored! |
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Post by frozenmenace on Jul 14, 2008 16:41:44 GMT -5
your right about one thing...we will agree to disagree...lol. Herein lies the circular reasoning. Paul was never a part of the pagan religions in the region in which he ministered yet he was able to distinguish between truth and falsity. If your offering (which I know your not), I'm not asking for an explanation of what esoteric meaning your rituals offer. On their face, they are sufficient to prove their incompatibility with scripture. The alpha altar, shrine of delphi, temple of Omega, etc...have nothing to do with Christ, and we both know that. You and many others on here have maintained that your orgs are not biblically based, because they are suitable for muslims, atheists, agnostics, jews, scientologists etc. They weren't set up to be "Christian" orgs, and that much is evident in the ritual. My contention (in part) is that in the creation of this bond, various biblical commands were ignored/misapplied. The scripture says, "do not be bonded with unbelievers", fraternities/sororities do just what the bible said don't do. (We've been down this road before though) Since your fraternity is both a bond, and made up of unbelievers, thats a pretty easy example in my estimation. You don't even have to get into the ritual to see this. But, when I first wrote the paper, I might have second guessed my discernment, because your right, I never was a member, nor do I now claim, or have ever claimed to have in depth insight into the meaning of everything in the ritual. But after hundreds of people have denounced, obviously members have agreed with what I wrote. If it were baseless, it would've flopped on its face. As always though Froze, much respect to you, you know it ain't nothing against you (or anybody else) personally. Using your logic Jay, I can go grab a book off the shelf at a bookstore and read it, then match it to scripture and say it's filled with idolatry and devil worship. Then I can say that I don't need to know the author's thoughts or intentions when they were writing that book. It may be that they didn't have any religious intent behind it at all...but being a Bible-beater (smile) I always try to throw a religious twist into it. Then I say, "well, scripture and the holy spirit has led me to discern that this book is not of God and is not supported by scripture. I recommend that it be banned and burned!" I have totally disregarded what the author says was his/her intentions. As for your comment about hundreds of people denouncing, there are many individuals were are very weak in their faith and allow other people to dictate to them what they should and should not believe. I know a number of people personally who denounced their memberships shortly after becoming heavily involved in the church. All of them did so after much badgering and brainwashing by those in the church. In many cases, they were told that if they didn't relinquish their membership, then they couldn't possibly be serious about GOD. Consequently, they chose to denounce their membership. Now, I would choose my Creator any day over my organization..so if they felt that they had to denounce in order to become closer to GOD, then I am all for it. After all, BGLOs have enough weak-minded members anyway. I just happen to be one who has studied scripture and am surrounded by others who are in the Ministry and study scripture. I am quite content with the knowledge that I can be a member of my organization AND also be a Christian. I actually encourage individuals to take a look at BOTH sides of the coin and make the decision for themselves. Everyone who uses the Bible to back up their claims is not always of GOD. I'm sure that SATAN knows scripture backward and forward and he is cunning enough to twist it to make folk think that he is telling us what GOD wants us to know. As usual Jay, I have enjoyed this intelligent debate with you. We don't have to agree, but I am glad that we can discuss our different thoughts without it becoming heated or petty! ;D |
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Post by B Strugg on Jul 14, 2008 16:51:42 GMT -5
No need to take up for JayOFelony!! ;D It's all love here...Jus felt like gettin on him since he felt the need to type my name...lmao...... But if I misunderstood....my bad...... And JAY....I AM A STUDENT ON VACATION...lmao...So I have a lot of time on my hands... Okay. I'm just trying to keep the peace between two of my favorite posters. ;D I can appreciate that!! Thank you |
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Post by Kryptik on Jul 14, 2008 17:06:22 GMT -5
Just curious... but is the whole argument based on the idea that BGLOs are "based" on Pagan practices?
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Post by DSTspr98 on Jul 14, 2008 18:46:23 GMT -5
It seems that way. However we all know our orgs were founded on Christian Principles.
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Post by Kryptik on Jul 14, 2008 19:03:58 GMT -5
Ohh, I agree... I was just wondering how the antithesis was being supported. Their argument didn't seem grounded by fact.
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Post by DSTspr98 on Jul 14, 2008 20:07:09 GMT -5
Ohh, I agree... I was just wondering how the antithesis was being supported. Their argument didn't seem grounded by fact. Absolutely! It is not grounded by fact at all. So you're dead on there. However I wonder where and how they arrive @ their conclusion that all greek orgs are evil. Hell, I'd rather have them figure out the oil crisis instead of waste anotha neuron on this useless debate. |
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 15, 2008 11:09:10 GMT -5
Just curious... but is the whole argument based on the idea that BGLOs are "based" on Pagan practices? Absolutely not my brother... thats not the whole argument, just one very small piece of it. This is a more exhaustive (but not complete) "argument" against bglo's. www.geocities.com/glos_havebeenexposed/christians_and_greeks.pdf |
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 15, 2008 11:12:18 GMT -5
It seems that way. However we all know our orgs were founded on Christian Principles. What are these uniquely "Christian Principles"? If its service, humanity, love, fidelity, uplift, yadda yadda yadda, those are no more Christian than they are Buddhist or Ghandian. What is a "Christian" principle must include Christ and His teachings... what if they went against something Christ said like...swearing for example? Is it still Christian? www.geocities.com/glos_havebeenexposed/christians_and_greeks.pdf |
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Post by T-Rex91 on Jul 15, 2008 11:16:09 GMT -5
Jay,
Just curious. Do you believe that Jews, Buddhists, Muslims Mormons, etc are all going to hell because they don't believe that Christ was the son of God?
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 15, 2008 11:19:28 GMT -5
Me too doc. But allow me this Froze... certainly not everybody that denounces is weak in the faith, nor did they just get into the church. An ex-Omega hit me up some time ago and told me that he had been an Omega for appx 30 years and a born again believer for appx 25 years. For years he was of the opinion that the service done by his former org was enough to justify his membership and he didn't succumb to any pressure from church members to leave. He read my paper (shameless plug once again ) and it was a further cause of discomfort insomuch as every argument he had to stay was confronted by my biblical argument and after years and years of examining the issue, he renounced. So, it is possible for there to be mature individuals, both naturally and spiritually that renounce because they are convicted. I wouldn't relegate the denunciations to weak minded people or to just new Christians trying to live right, although in reality there are some new Christians that denounce. |
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Post by DSTspr98 on Jul 15, 2008 12:04:05 GMT -5
Oh, ok! Good afternoon Jay.
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 15, 2008 12:26:55 GMT -5
Jay, Just curious. Do you believe that Jews, Buddhists, Muslims Mormons, etc are all going to hell because they don't believe that Christ was the son of God? You just went ahead and cracked this thread right open! lol ;D I believe in the Bible's teachings that Jesus is the only way to God...anybody that is not born again (even if they grew up in church) will not see God. |
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Post by huey on Jul 15, 2008 12:29:53 GMT -5
It seems that way. However we all know our orgs were founded on Christian Principles. I don't agree. I ask same question as jayhov, What are these uniquely "Christian Principles"? If its service, humanity, love, fidelity, uplift, yadda yadda yadda, those are no more Christian than they are Buddhist or Ghandian. |
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Post by jay0heavenly on Jul 15, 2008 12:32:10 GMT -5
Oh, ok! Good afternoon Jay. Were you being sarcastic  ? <====Not always the sharpest pencil in the drawer...lol |
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Post by T-Rex91 on Jul 15, 2008 12:33:45 GMT -5
Jay, Just curious. Do you believe that Jews, Buddhists, Muslims Mormons, etc are all going to hell because they don't believe that Christ was the son of God? You just went ahead and cracked this thread right open! lol ;D I believe in the Bible's teachings that Jesus is the only way to God...anybody that is not born again (even if they grew up in church) will not see God. So yes, they are hell bound? Regardless of how they have lived their lives? Don't give me an eja-macated answer, just yes or no:) |
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Thanks Highly Favored! 
